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02:22
@MartinBüttner Assignments aren't permitted inside expressions and none of the expressions in f are stateful. It doesn't matter what order the arguments to the ternary operator are evaluated.
I've fixed the mod function and shift function names. Good catches.
I'd originally wanted to make the challenge language-specific, but PPCG seems to come down on language-specific challenges like honey badgers on a rock python. There seems to be an unwritten consensus that language-specific challenges are tolerable only when absolutely necessary.
I suppose it wouldn't be too hard to come up with my own C-like language for the challenge with a code snippet as an interpreter. Is that what you're suggesting?
i think a specified language would be find, a la atomic code golf
@MartinBüttner Regarding using bounded datatypes: You're correct that it's impossible to return proper results using bounded datatypes. I allude to this in the "Variables and Data Types" section. As I'd envisioned it, bounded types would be allowed subject to the restriction that if they were replaced with unbounded types, they would return the correct outputs for any finite outputs.
Basically, I wanted people to be able to use simple expressions like A*B + 3, etc., which are impossible to implement as big integers in most languages. I suppose if I implement my own programming language for the challenge, I can just make all integers unbounded and avoid the complicated disclaimers.
i think people are in part hard on language-specific challenges because some people golf in it and others don't, but making your own specified mini-language avoids that
everyone is on even footing
OK. That is what I shall do then.
 
2 hours later…
04:23
I'm quite impressed with how far the 95 characters/95 languages code challenge has gotten
 
3 hours later…
07:00
@MartinBüttner That along with 0> as an alternative to <0 and others
@MartinBüttner That's how I'd go about it as well, I'll think about it some more
Is it me or are most code golf questions including bonuses now? For example: -100 if your code makes a cuppa
07:55
@xnor Yeah I'm pretty convinced too, but I've been a bit lazy trying to prove it (because I kept making stupid mistakes) :P
What I was thinking was there's two parts to it: 1) x never goes below -1 (ie no infinite looping) and 2) x can go as far negative as 1e-6
Well not quite -1, x<0 and .1+x^2 > i implies x < -0.948...
08:12
Just posted a proof, I think that works
 
2 hours later…
10:13
@COTO You're basically doing atomic code golf, in which case I feel that not limiting it to a single (made up or existing) language is more harmful than being language-specific. So I wouldn't say "tolerable only when absolutely necessary", but "tolerably only when there's a good reason for it". And the strictness of your rules is a pretty good reason to me.
@BetaDecay That's been a thing for at least as long as I've been an active member (i.e. this year).
@overactor ah yes, that would be neat, too
I've added a few issues to the GitHub with feature requests for the spec
I'd also like [[ to print a marble without consuming it.
implementation:
:[[
}0
..
{0
}0
 
3 hours later…
13:22
@Optimizer I agree that xnor's answer is the most creative (which is why he gets the bounty). But I do think that the newer median-of-3 submissions (with reduce or without) are also quite clever. And I'd rather see the checkmark go to Peter's original solution than Timtech's port of xnor's solution.
13:58
@MartinBüttner TBH, pairwise minmod already existed there. xnor's first answer was a reduced pairwise monmod only, even my CJam answer is that now. Just that sorting was not allowed, so there were other ways adopted to perform the same task.
@MartinBüttner off-topic, do you know what flawr's first answer was ? in revesion, it only shows from the second revision
editing grace period... edits within the first 5 minutes aren't shown, and later on multiple edits within 5 minutes are collapsed into one.
yeah ..
any idea what it was ?>
flawr just appended as many zeroes as inputs at first, yielding an even number
it was like very short, 19 bytes short I think.
I don't know matlab octave that much ..
@(x)median([x,0*x])
14:01
thanks..
@MartinBüttner is x(2:end) the only way to get rid of first element ?
(or is there a better way of getting rid of first or last element ? )
I don't know
I don't usually golf in matlab
@Optimizer is there a single-letter no-op in CJam?
@MartinBüttner Can i use anonymous functions in CJam ?
for the minmod question
@Optimizer yes, but you'll have to count the braces
14:05
@MartinBüttner what's the usecase ? there might be depending on where u want
@Optimizer it must work both on an empty stack and on a string
@MartinBüttner Can't I say that {...}* is the anon function ? :P
@Optimizer it's not
it's a code snippet
14:08
@MartinBüttner care to show the part of code where u want no-op ?
@Optimizer my Mutual Negative Quine answer. I want to replace q with an actual no-op.
ok
...
err
I think there's a typo in your edit
shouldn't the last ~ be *?
14:21
@MartinBüttner Not sure if this is what you want, but R works instead of q.
well it still pushes an empty array, right?
yeah, but does not contribute to output. I need to understand what you are planning to tell better :)
I think he wants the bonus?
If it were a real noop what he has is almost a quine (AFAIK ;p )
ah ok.
@FryAmTheEggman hm, it's still a bit away from a quine
but if it was actually a no-op that didn't modify the stack at all I might be able to save another byte
14:26
Also I think the 1 turns into a 0, not a W :p
oh yeah, that changed...
@Optimizer have you been working on that challenge yet?
Not yet, in office.
Finally golf my solution to the max: codegolf.stackexchange.com/a/31781/6638
14:50
We're off to a blazingly fast start in our sprint:
15:39
@Rainbolt What is that a plot of?
yes!
0
A: Mutual Negative Quines

Martin BüttnerCJam, (58 x 2) * 52% = 60.32 {`"_~"+"Ks_W%erS-N/~EE)+S*_"{ }`S-,3-!\"@]Y/{0(%}%N*"+*~}_~ which prints {`"_~"+"Ks_W%erS-N/~EE)+S*_"{ }`S-,3-!\"@]Y/{2(%}%N*"+*~}_~ The non-space...

Gratz :)
@COTO That's our burndown for this sprint.
Ours doesn't show the "in progress" bit. It's either done or it isn't.
Ideal progress negatively correlating with amount to do? -> Sounds pretty normal ;)
15:56
Normally the slope of our Sprints are concave rather than a straight line. We get far more "done" in the first few days than the last.
This one will be the same. It just looks weird because our product owner didn't bring us everything we needed in order to plan on day one.
@Rainbolt Ah. I've never seen one of those diagrams. And I'm glad you explained the issue with your product owner since I'd otherwise have been scratching my head wondering what I was misunderstanding about the graph.
16:34
There is a clause in our rules somewhere that non serious answers should be deleted or something
anyone any idea ?
I remember seeing it on Meta.
Looking for it.
Hm, cannot find it anymore.
You are not searching seriously..
You did not get the joke either...
Ehh... that's true.
16:43
By non-serious you mean jokey workarounds, or what?
no like extra long java answers
not golfed at all
just to sound funny and attract votes
I'm pretty sure those get deleted
I think it happened to COTO a while ago
like OMG JAVA worst golfing languages
@Optimizer I've accepted some rather long Java answers when the problem was so difficult that it was the only answer I got. You can't really delete the guy who is winning.
those are genuine cases
16:46
@Optimizer That one actually is golfed.
I didn't say that that one isn't. I was just explaining general categories of such questions
I am pretty sure a less than 200 byte solution is possible in java.
@Optimizer I don't think that user tried bloat the code to be funny though... it seems like he genuinely didn't come up with a shorter version
well, even if you just implement one of the already existing algo's, the code cannot be this big.
yeah but maybe he didn't look at the existing algorithms ;)
Yea... I dunno. Badly golfed is not the same as bloated-to-get-votes bad.
If my first few attempts at golf here were deleted (and they weren't very well golfed by my current standards), I wouldn't have answered any more.
Instead they were just not highly scored, which is a bit of an incentive to get better, rather than pissing me off :P
16:55
Was the answer you linked to supposed to be an example of a funny answer that got upvotes because it was so bad? Because the one you linked to has zero...
If we have something on meta that says "delete noncompetitive answers", it needs to be updated to say "but don't worry about answers that fall into a grey area, because maybe the author is just bad at golfing."
If there is something like that, I can't really find it. Even the code-golf tag wiki has been changed. It used to say something like "...at a minimum, this includes removing whitespace...", where now it just has a list of standard methods.
Maybe someone wanted to golf in Whitespace and they got mad.
@Geobits are you thinking about the help centre
I just pictured someone golfing without a club. Just blowing on the ball all the way to the hole.
CJam has a really annoying bug where backslashes in the string representation of a string get doubled even if they don't need to be escaped... it makes quining a lot harder...
17:01
@MartinBüttner Probably, since now that I check the tag wiki history, I don't see it ;)
@Rainbolt I always used my foot as a club in that situation.
@MartinBüttner #Quinning is a Twitter hashtag used to highlight photographs and stories in which various problems have been resolved through one’s sheer physical strength. The slang term is named after the U.S. Olympic bobsledder Johnny Quinn who became internet famous for busting through a door to free himself after getting locked in a bathroom at the Sochi Olympic Village in February 2014.
good thing I didn't write "quinning" then
Only because you can't spell
It still works. Quinn made an arguably unnecessary escape, much like your backslashes :D
"Quining" sounds like "kwai-neeng" (because I said so)
17:07
Isn't that how it's supposed to be pronounced? The IPA for Quine is /kwaɪn/ according to Wiki.
Then wouldn't it be "kwain-ning"?
I don't know of any words ending with a silent e that drop it and get a double consonant when -ing is added.
To Wikipedia
Same difference between twin/twinning and twine/twining.
stop whining
17:13
But I'm winning! ;)
I don't deserve such punishment.
that's an understatement
Ah quines
What if I invent a serious golfing language (serious as in about as competitive as gs
That have a 1char quine command
Just a thought
Well, don't most quine commands produce invalid quines because they read the source code?
Or is abstraction ok? :P
Good question
Would you say the HQ9+ quine is a quine?
17:25
I would say no, but I'm not really an authority on it :P
17:41
stahp kwaining
What would be really cool is a language where Quine was a series of (otherwise useful) functions/variables that produced a quine :P
Also, I reserve the right to kwain all I want, thank you :P
You might have the right, but you don't have any left
But have you left your rite of passage?
:/
I've got a 38x2 byte version of my second quine submission now, but it only works in one direction... and whatever I try to add support for the other direction, it blows up massively
{`"_~"+"N/{19/W%}"{
                   }`'+#)!\"%N*"+*~}_~
instead of removing all spaces and then adding spaces based on 0 or 2 in the code, I tried to simply split the lines in two, and reverse the halves, which doesn't require any other change in the code
@MartinBüttner I am starting now, only have an hour though.. lets see
17:49
the trouble is that in the second quine, the spaces aren't actually part of the string representation.
18:02
btw @MartinBüttner do you speak German?
@TwiNight yes
Does "gloria" mean "glory"?
Google says that 'glorie' does (in one sense), but I don't see a 'gloria' (for what that's worth).
FWIW Gloria is latin for glory.
Yea, "in excelsis deo" and all that :P
18:09
@TwiNight neither is a German word
Glorie kinda does, as Geobits said, but it's a very rarely used word. any context?
Ruhm is the usual German word for glory
whats the story behind the 19th byte ?
@Optimizer the 19th hole is the pub/club you go to after golfing
(plus, fun fact, The Nineteenth Byte has 19 bytes)
I see
@MartinBüttner ok thanks
0
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

EllPartial Ordering of Regex Patterns code-golf regex For the purpose of this challenge, we say that a regex pattern matches a string if the entire string is matched by the pattern, not just a substring. Given two regex patterns A and B, we say that A is more specialized than B  if every string t...

18:16
It's from Attack on Titan OP2
Shoulda known better what to expect from a Japanese composer
still great song though
I think he is kind of obliged to use some German in OP1 since the main character is named after the German word jäger
German is basically Latin, right? It uses letters and things.
But he used much more German in OP2
@FryAmTheEggman yeah, just like English
@TwiNight Yeah that sentence in the lyrics doesn't make any sense.
If anything it's "die Glorie"
even then it doesn't make sense...
But that doesn't have the right syllable count. If you're going to mash German and Japanese together, why not add in some Latin? :P
And Russian, and French, and Spanish, but not Egyptian. They use funky plant things.
18:25
@Geobits it has the same syllable count
Don't miss Chinese you blasphemer
Mandarin excuse you :)
the pronunciation of Glorie is more like Glorië
Ah, that makes sense.
Actually, is there a character named Gloria? That would sort of make sense...? Maybe? :X
18:27
@FryAmTheEggman Nope
It would make sense if they were talking about the hymn, too, since it's often referred to as "The Gloria", even in English. I... didn't get that from the context, though ;)
He did some cool things in the chorus
Would be perfect if not for the screwed up German
Great anime by the way, go watch it
I probably won't be able to suffer through the opening clip
Martin starts watching AoT "GLORIAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA" Martin dies
just skip the first part of the OP then
18:38
Hrm, I've never heard OP used like that before. Opening... ?
More accurately "OPening theme"
@Geobits sry but @FireFly got the stars already
That, sir, is a wack-ass acronym ;)
@TwiNight That's cool, didn't see it over there. I've been sparse lately ;)
@FryAmTheEggman If it makes you feel better, pretend it means "Opening Prelude".
Also, "OPn" is the n-th opening theme
That makes me feel like tearing out my eardrums. Just like ATM machine, or PIN number :P
18:42
So "Attack on Titan OP2" = "second opening theme of AoT"
Opening Prelude: Introduction's introduction
Sure, nothing like a small bit of unnecessary redundancy in the morning.
Also, I don't know why I would tear out my eardrums, for thinking of something I saw.
You mean the RAS syndrome?
But I'm a smart person.
18:46
@MartinBüttner btw as I have said just skip the first part of the OP then
Just 4 "full sentences" in the beginning (in the TV version that is)
The rest are just single phrases
@FryAmTheEggman Or meta-introduction, sound way better?
jabs out left eye
is unable to successfully remove right eye, due to lack of depth perception
At least you can apparently type by touch ;)
Semi-related: A doctor once told me I have basically no depth perception. I don't believe him.
Unless the rest of you are seeing something super 3D, but I really have no way to compare.
"I can see sideways in time! Emit ni syawedis ees nac I!" Super 4D visions is where its at.
And here I am stuck in flatland.
19:01
this has been bothering me all my life
I'd just like to know what other people see when something is flying at their face. I mean, if I have no depth perception and I can still figure it out, it must be downright scary for others. Plus, 3D movies and stereograms work just fine for me.
It is possible that the doctor was wrong :P
But how do I know? :D
You failed the depth perception test?
the thing where we actually do have large differences in perception is taste, apparently.
19:07
Personally, I thought the test was a bit odd. It was basically a stereogram in a hooded scope. You were supposed to say which of the circles were raised above the others.
I was quite sure I said the right ones, too XD
the density of taste buds doesn't follow a normal distribution, but apparently humans are clustered in 3 regions... about 50% have a "medium" density, and 25% each have a significantly larger or smaller density (those numbers are completely made up right now).
which really makes me wonder which of those groups I'm in...
That seems testable if you can count taste buds.
Well, they are cells, just get a microscope and scrape off a layer of your tongue ;)
I'm pretty sure I read that taste buds vary wildly based on eating habits and loads of other environmental factors over the course of your life. But you could surely test density at any given point in time.
"Most estimates suggest 25% of the population are nontasters, 50% are medium tasters, and 25% are supertasters."
turns out I'm pretty good at making up numbers
19:13
> It is also possible to make a reasonably accurate self-diagnosis at home by careful examination of the tongue and looking for the number of fungiform papillae.[18] Blue food dye can make this easier.
which reminds me
I'm pretty sure I'm not a supertaster. I like every single item on their list of foods that they tend to avoid. But that makes me happy, since those things are delicious.
Except maybe grapefruit juice. It's okay, but there are much better juices out there.
I do find coffee, grapefruit and green/black tea unpleasantly bitter
Heretic
I like blue tea.
(and smoked black tea)
19:20
I'm not sure I've tried blue tea, but tea in general is my staple drink.
it's often called Oolong tea, if you've heard of that
Oh, yea, oolong is fine.
(Tea or Coffee) with Lemon
"going to award a bounty to the answer that was leading before the rule change"
is that still happening @MartinBüttner
@Timtech yes, but I actually meant xnor's answer, because yours was posted after the rule change ;) (and honestly, he does deserve credit for the idea)
19:30
:<
wait but mine doesnt use the new rules
true, but I don't really feel like spending 100 of my rep to reward you for beating xnor by taking his idea and golfing it down further in a tokenised language ;) ... I hope you can understand that
@TwiNight The next time someone asks my for my PIN number I don't know if I will be able to contain myself.
Wikipedia turns people into jerks. Especially this page.
I don't think you've proven causation for that.
time for another xkcd
Recent experience has taught me that Confirmation Bias might be the worst thing ever, after Outcome Bias, of course.
19:45
Are you sure that isn't a case of Frequency Illusion? I heard about that recently and now I see it everywhere.
I've been trying to work out what that is called for ages!
"Tom: I speak English. Therefore, I am English.
Bill: Americans and Canadians, among others, speak English too. You are incorrect. Therefore, you are not English."
I like that page :P
but yeah, what I like about confirmation bias is that it requires the victim to actually think in the first place - I may or may not be facing money problems soon because of confirmation bias, obviously it will only have been a problem is the outcome isn't good in the end
It's time for the quote of the day!
"Many people think that, since they're going to be doctors or something, they're never going to need to know about relativity. Well what if one of your patients starts running away from you at the speed of light? Then you really need to know this." ~ Dr. Shankar
2
joy, watched my first Shankar for a week or so yesterday (been doing work or something?)
19:50
Do you guys know Existential Comics? It was never as good as the very first instalment (which is pretty amazing), but it did have a few funny ones... including... FALLACY MAN ... existentialcomics.com/comic/9 and existentialcomics.com/comic/21
Dr., aren't you going to chase after him? No, his 6 minutes to live will last about 30 years at that pace.
@MartinBüttner I lol'ed at "Eat dirt kid! Then learn how to think."
@FryAmTheEggman lol yeah
I'm a fan of if-by-whiskey.
20:09
"Lois Lane believes that Superman can fly.
Lois Lane does not believe that Clark Kent can fly.
Therefore Superman and Clark Kent are not the same person."
So that's why it's so hard for her to figure out.
@Rainbolt The fallacy fallacy is my fav
@TwiNight see the existential comic ;)
o.O
I think I just repcapped at 195
I see you having +190 rep for today?
Nope, that was just delayed or something :P
Maybe because you lost 5 rep at about the same time as you gained the last 5?
Nope I'm reading the time graph wrong.
hm no, it looks like an unupvote earlier today isn't counted against the rep cap
You should probably just ignore me
Imma +1 some old question of yours, for science :P
20:21
lol
the reputation page actually says I got 200 today
and what's odd is that the total agrees with my actual total, but it's also 200 more than yesterday's total o.O
ah come on, you could've upvoted one that doesn't have the bronze badge yet :P
(kidding)
Too lazy, would have to scroll too far :P
oh wait...
the reputation page cancelled the unupvote with an upvote from yesterday
so it says I got 5 less yesterday and 5 more today
well let's hope, that's how the Epic badge is counted as well :D
Pray to Jeff Atwood. I heard he likes goat sacrifices.
;)
20:34
@MartinBüttner lol I just checked your question page again, out of curiosity. All of your questions on the first page have the bronze badge ;p
and all the ones on the second page don't! :O
Hah, your lowest voted question was one of the first I answered on this site :P
Oh no oh no oh no. I took too much from source control. My poor C drive :(
28kB remaining :'(
Oh, nope, 0 bytes.
21:16
Winning!
22:04
@MartinBüttner You've been stuck up a pole all your life?
22:20
@PeterTaylor exactly what I meant to imply...
see the 6-star message in the sidebar :P
That's what I did. One of those stars is mine ;)
22:38
@Doorknob I did not grant you permission to use my avatar :P
@MartinBüttner Sorry, it was snowing and I just grabbed a handful of them! The avatarflakes were moving too fast to choose which ones I wanted. :P
;)
@Doorknob I think you need to clarify step 2 a bit
do I do one swap for each pixel? or do I swap each pixel only once?
that is, does for (x in width) for (y in height) { otherpos = randomchoice(nearpixels(x,y)); swap([x,y],otherpos); } satisfy the spec or not (because it will swap most pixels more than once)
@MartinBüttner Yeah, thanks, I've edited the post
(I just realized "swap" isn't the best word to describe what I mean)
oh, right
@Doorknob can I use a built-in ListConvolve to do the blurring?
@MartinBüttner Uhh, what's a ListConvolve?
22:48
well, it takes a kernel and a list, and calculates the convolution
how should we handle the image edges for the blurring?
@MartinBüttner Sorry, I've been trying to make sense of this Mathematica documentation but I can't understand it. :P It doesn't directly apply a blur, so it should be fine.
@MartinBüttner Locations outside the image boundaries aren't pixels, so ignore them. The question only says "average R, G, and B values of all pixels within a Manhattan distance of n pixels"
hm k... damn... :D
That question should have been sandboxed...
23:10
@PeterTaylor Don't you already know I don't believe in the sandbox? (Also, the comment system seems to have worked just fine; no need for an entire sandbox post.)
23:58
Dude cool
I never look at the sandbox anyway
Oh I'm late... ;p

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