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4:13 PM
They are really two different requests, which brings Doorknob's total to three new feature requests
 
4:34 PM
Indeed. 1. Allow different questions to have different default sorts. 2. Allow a user to have several different sort preferences in place rather than every sort change affecting every question at once.
 
What's the third feature request?
 
While this would be a handy feature, is it really necessary? Non-"regular" users won't know about this option and will see it default-sorted anyway. Regulars know how to change the sort and it literally takes one click.
 
@PhiNotPi the starred one
 
Just sayin'
 
disabling the 5-rep barrier for the sandbox
 
4:40 PM
This is the kind of thing I would argue against without more evidence if brought to my attention.
(not disabling the rep barrier to sandbox, that's an excellent idea)
 
@Geobits Yeah I agree... I was just saying what my favourite implementation would be if we got per-answer per-user sorting
 
@Geobits I think the big one is the 5 rep barrier, then the sandbox defaulting to active to encourage feedback. The fine level control of personal sort order would be nice but isn't really relevant to this particular problem (making the sandbox more useful).
 
But having the mods decide on a default sort for the sandbox sounds like a good idea, too, I think
 
Oh I agree with the rep barrier. I've commented before about how useless it is to point one-reppers to the sandbox.
 
I'm sure it would be possible to write a userscript that automatically switches to "sort by active" when you visit the sandbox, and "sort by votes" when you navigate away.
2
Something something XMLHttpRequest magic
 
4:43 PM
@Doorknob That definitely sounds like the better option. Let those who it bothers mess with it :D
 
@Doorknob if someone is going to do that would it be much extra work to make it revert to previous setting when navigating away, rather than reverting to default?
 
@Doorknob Overkill. A userscript can click on a link.
 
Well the idea of a server-side default for the sandbox is that the less active/experienced users would get the most efficient sorting.
 
Of course, a user script could probably just sort them itself without changing the actual sort preference...
 
I think the main point is that people who don't think to change the order will automatically see the sandbox with most active first
@MartinBüttner yes - beat me to it
 
4:44 PM
@PeterTaylor Yeah, but it would also have to switch back to "sort by votes" in onbeforeunload or something.
@Geobits Not with pagination
 
I don't care about the people in this room (including myself) in terms of adding features to make sorting more convenient. It's just that it seems that most new people need to be told that sorting the sandbox by activity makes more sense. That's why a default makes sense.
 
Ah, good point.
 
0
A: Proposed Question Sandbox - Mark XIV

PeterI didn't manage to explain well enough so I'm attempting to rewrite on here first based on someone's suggestion, feedback would be appreciated Generate Forks of a Line in a 3D Grid Objective: Overview: Write a program, that given the two inputs number of forks and fork length, will produce a p...

 
@MartinBüttner It could be in large text on the sandbox meta post, since assuming the sandbox FAQ becomes a thing, we'll have much more room there
 
@MartinBüttner The thing is, if someone is going to the sandbox to post something, it doesn't matter the sort. If someone's going to review things, it does. My guess is that less experienced users do more posting there than reviewing.
 
4:46 PM
Yes. New users looking at the sandbox should see work in progress that they can learn from, not just all the upvoted questions that have already been posted
 
@NewSandboxedPosts I love that paint visualisation.
@Doorknob Ha, I just thought that.
 
I just got the sixth autoflag from Community ♦ about "too many answers" on the Sandbox. -_-
 
@Geobits a) Exactly, it doesn't matter to those who are posting, but it matters to those who are reviewing, so that's not a counter argument. b) Everyone who is reviewing has to start at some point (even if he isn't a new user in general any more)... and at that point many people need to be pointed towards using active sorting, I think.
 
Even if most people do need to be told and can't figure it out themselves, that doesn't translate to "make it default" to me. If anything, I think it would be more confusing to new users if a single question was sorted differently than all others for some unknown reason.
 
Would a compromise of just mentioning in bold in the question that sorting by active shows things that need reviewing be enough?
I did an awful lot of scrolling before I realised that the sandbox sort order could be changed...
 
4:54 PM
Sorting isn't determined by the URL, is it?
 
@PhiNotPi just checked - looks like it is when non-default
 
Mentioning it (probably in bold) in the post should be done either way. If it's not made default, to hint to users that it's helpful. If it is made default, to explain why these answers show up differently.
 
@PhiNotPi does that mean links to the sandbox could be links to the sorted by active version?
 
So, we could create a link to sort it by active.
3
 
What's the physicist's favorite hobby?
Nuclear fission!
ba dum tss
 
4:57 PM
huh?
 
@githubphagocyte nuclear fission -> nuclear fishing
 
@cjfaure ah I get it now - I have the wrong accent to pick up on it automatically... :)
 
@githubphagocyte :P It's a bad modification of the original joke
"What is a physicists favourite food? Fission chips."
 
@PhiNotPi That's a good idea. I'll try to remember it when I post comments.
 
@cjfaure that one I probably would have got...
 
4:59 PM
Are physicists all British or something?
 
@Geobits Say "physicist."
 
Fish doesn't go with chips. Throw some hush puppies on the plate and we're good.
 
@Geobits does anyone else eat fish and chips?
 
Then ask yourself if that question was serious or not.
 
4:59 PM
British people need to stop calling fries chips
 
@EricTressler +inf
 
@EricTressler fried are thinner than chips
chips are somewhere between fries and wedges
 
Fat ones are obviously called steak fries.
 
Yeah, but french fries are aptly-named; they're frenched, it's a culinary term
 
5:00 PM
Because you eat them with steak. Not fish.
 
Fun fact: "fries" means "freeze" in Afrikaans.
 
@Geobits Shoes?
 
I'm glad someone asked - I was beginning to wonder if that sounded normal...
 
You lost me, Peter.
 
Voila, userscript:
if (window.location.pathname.indexOf('/1847/') > -1) {
    if (window.location.search.indexOf('answertab=active') < 0) {
        window.location.href = $('#tabs a:first').attr('href');
    } else {
        window.onbeforeunload = function() {
            $.ajax({
                url: $('#tabs a:last').attr('href'),
                async: false
            });
        }
    }
}
 
5:01 PM
What are hush puppies other than a brand of shoe?
 
A brand of shoe polish.
 
they're like... tiny deep fried balls of corn bread or something
 
And do they go with the fish or the fries?
 
@EricTressler that sentence could have gone better
 
5:02 PM
Ah that makes much more sense...
 
They go with the fish, or any fried seafood.
 
I was tentative because I wasn't sure if they were cornbread or not
 
Yea, basically throw some onion, pepper, and garlic in there and you've got a hush puppy. Additional seasonings to taste.
 
@EricTressler I think a better solution might be for US Americans to stop calling the dialect they speak "English" :P
 
Yeah, they're basically made of the filler food you would put in a crab cake
take a crab cake, remove all the crab, and deep fry it
 
5:04 PM
i've never eaten a hush puppy nor a crab cake.
 
@PeterTaylor I've read enough linguistics to know that American English is more faithful to historical English than British English is.
 
US English is shorter.
 
US is golfed
 
@githubphagocyte well duh, their name is "us".
 
As opposed to UK?
 
5:06 PM
u.s. = ugly scripts
 
not that being more like old english is a virtue. But our brand of English works fine
 
@Geobits I meant UK English has more surplus letters which don't seem to do anything
 
u.k. = ugly kscripts
 
@PhiNotPi you...you forgot a space...
 
Were Strunk and White british?
 
5:07 PM
Like "queue". Do you spell it that way in the US?
 
@githubphagocyte yeah
 
@PeterTaylor I love Britain. I watch 8 out of 10 cats and QI just to hear British banter
 
it's abbreviated to "Q" sometimes though.
 
@EricTressler Maybe so, but English is either the language of the Angles (and there aren't many of them left) or the language of England, so in as much as there's a language currently living which can claim the name, it's found East of the Atlantic.
 
Sometimes we spell it "queueue", but that's a mistake
 
5:08 PM
It's a word in need of golfing - 5 letters for one syllable is absurd
 
queeeeeeeuuuuuuueeeeeeeuuuuuuueeeeeeeuuuuu
it's a siren! :D
 
@PeterTaylor Fine, but we're still not putting your queen on our money :|
 
@githubphagocyte "Sprite" in Korean is 5 syllables. O_o
 
qqqqqqqqqqqqqqueue
 
esapiritu? that would be japanese
 
5:09 PM
I'm not asking you to.
 
Uhm, you mean on?
 
@Doorknob, in English, I'll admit that sprite needs all 6 letters for its one syllable. I can't even guess how it is pronounced as 6 syllables...
 
@cjfaure Huh?
 
@EricTressler what's a syllable?
what is a car?!
heeeelp
 
@cjfaure I think it's actually pretty technical. It's like pornography, you know it when you see one
 
5:11 PM
@EricTressler ba dum tss
btw for the guys that didn't get it
 
@githubphagocyte 스프라이트 = suh puh rah ee tuh. :P
 
We should use this language: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pirahã_language. It has a... golfed... vocabulary.
 
@EricTressler No, but I won't say that's the reason for all their mistakes because Fowler's not much better.
 
@Doorknob Hey, my guess wasn't toooo far off
@PeterTaylor Mistakes? In the Elements of Style?
 
i need to learn japanese, solely so that i can laugh at anime my sister is watching in the other room.
and so that I can shock Kitzu at the restaurant... :D
 
5:13 PM
Okay, I just got the third edition off my bookshelf
Show me the mistakes
 
mistakes are good because:
mistake = mis take = blooper = the reason you rent dvds.
 
@cjfaure I just realized that the only Japanese words I know are types and preparations of fish
 
@EricTressler Sauteed kingklip, please?
Yes, I have eaten eel. And squid. :P
 
I've eaten lots of things
 
5:16 PM
@EricTressler like my hope? ;_;
 
@PeterTaylor This article is getting me down. :(
 
@EricTressler you probably also know origami and karaoke...
 
Both delicious fish
 
Karaoke sushi. Ew.
 
5:18 PM
@PeterTaylor If you have any damning articles about T.H. White, I don't want to see them
 
Karaoke must always be well cooked
 
@githubphagocyte And should never be under-dressed.
 
In my experience, it's usually pickled in alcohol
 
@EricTressler lol
 
Karaoke should be marinated in alcohol first.
ninja'd....
 
5:18 PM
@EricTressler is that "The Sword in the Stone" T.H. White?
 
I think so, but I know him from "The Once and Future King"
 
LifeProTip:
 
I haven't read that one
 
Don't eat origami. You get paper-cuts and it ruins your week.
 
It's one of my favorite books. I haven't read The Sword in the Stone by him, but The Once and Future King is a fairly long book that covers Arthur's whole life
my bookcase has 2 shelves with books I'm proud to like, and another 10 shelves of textbooks and trash fiction
 
5:21 PM
the only authors I know about are Isaac Asimov so that I can pretend to like his things, and Stephanie Meyer so that I can pretend I don't.
 
@EricTressler no overlap...?
 
Well. Vonnegut is kind of overlap
and Catch-22
 
I miss my Chemistry A2 textbook :(
 
@EricTressler I like how you've forced all textbooks into the "don't like" section.
 
@cjfaure You should include one "classic lit" author to pretend to be classy, too.
 
5:22 PM
@Geobits Poe?
Dickens?
 
I like textbooks. I'm a very proud owner of the art of computer programming
 
@cjfaure Not classy enough. Go with someone you've never heard of. That way you can act pretentious as a bonus.
 
My bookcase is overflowing a bit with books from my book club. Most of them I wouldn't recommend, but one or two are worth reading twice.
 
And concrete mathematics
 
@Geobits That's a bit hard...
I'm trying to think of an author I don't know about...
 
5:23 PM
@cjfaure but not someone no one else has heard of
 
I had to buy Concrete Mathematics, even though my advisor was one of the authors. I always thought he would give me a copy some day, but he never did.
 
@cjfaure Google/wikipedia are your friends
 
@cjfaure Read some Umberto Eco
 
@cjfaure Do you want suggestions?
 
@Geobits wikipedia -> "writers" category -> names starting with "k" -> 14th link.
 
5:24 PM
He's pretty classy and a little snooty
 
Just find a "list of 18th century authors", there's bound to be something there.
 
@cjfaure I really would recommend Asimov's short stories
 
@githubphagocyte Nightfall is awesome!
 
I bet you don't know about Decius Viriatus Cato.
 
@PeterTaylor and what if I do, O pretentious one?
 
5:25 PM
Then you're already there :D
 
Then I'm impressed, because I just made him up.
 
"The Source of Thoreau's "Cato-Decius Dialogue" - jstor"
 
Charles Dikkens with two ks?
 
You made him up from your subconscious
 
@PeterTaylor I'm psychic, but I'm not Indian and I didn't walk into a market.
There goes your joke.
 
5:28 PM
I just want to hear a defense of "Worcestershire"
 
@EricTressler a defense of the county or the spelling or the pronunciation?
 
spelling v. pronunciation
 
@EricTressler, Decius is a common enough name Latin given name, and Cato is a well-known cognomen, but Viriatus is the name the Romans gave to one of their enemies in what would now be Portugal, and I've never heard it used in another context.
 
I always say "Vorster shyer". Wrong but meh.
 
@EricTressler in England the pronunciation is fairly consistent for that spelling (surprisingly consistent for English)
It's a similar spelling for Worcester, Bicester, Leicester, etc
 
5:30 PM
I wish I could vote on revisions.
 
Isn't Gloucester pronounced "Gliceder"
 
And all pronounced as if the ces was a single s
no that follows the same pattern
 
Even better, I wish I could vote on changes line by line if I wanted to.
 
pronunciation is Gloster, Bister, Lester, Wooster
 
@githubphagocyte the letters/syllables ratio winner is still "strengths"
 
5:31 PM
wat
 
I thought Wooster was more like Wussed-her than "Rooster"
 
@Rainbolt I was thinking the other day that it would be nice to be able to highlight the few words you like, so that words that more people have highlighted shine brighter
 
uh, not oo?
 
@EricTressler yes - I made a poor choice of fake spelling
 
/ˈwʊstər/
 
5:32 PM
as in football
 
can we all speak Golfscript please?
 
I learned recently that the schwa is the most common vowel sound in english
 
(unless you live somewhere that pronounces it fooootbal)
 
how is that a vowel sound?
 
It would be a nice alternative to the "What the OP says wins in the event of a dispute" current way of doing things. Not that it has come up for me (in the last month at least)
 
5:33 PM
@MartinBüttner it's a as in "bar", I think xD
 
Plus I want to let people know that I appreciate their edit without a comment saying "Thanks for the edit"
 
i'm probably wrong but meh
 
weird name for it, really :D
 
it's the ə
 
5:33 PM
@MartinBüttner you mean ah
 
@cjfaure the a in bar is not a schwa
 
so i as in "whirrrrrr" as in "riding a vaccuum"
 
the "e" in the pronounced thuh
 
@Rainbolt does that rhyme or am I pronouncing it wrong...?
 
5:34 PM
'a', as in about [əˈbaʊt]
'e', as in taken [ˈtʰeɪkən]
'i', as in pencil [ˈpʰɛnsəl]
'o', as in eloquent [ˈɛləkʰwənt]
'u', as in supply [səˈpʰlaɪ]
'y', as in sibyl [ˈsɪbəl]
 
ah yeah
 
uh-about, ta-kun, pen-sul, etc.
 
It's kind of a caveman sound
 
dem vowels, they be trippin'
 
I am so lost
 
5:35 PM
I like Icelandic
 
i like nothing.
 
@githubphagocyte Does what rhyme?
 
they've got 15 letters for vowels, but at least each one always sounds the same
 
@Rainbolt this one - I should learn to link reply...
 
at least English is lighter on the importance of inflection than a lot of asian languages
 
5:37 PM
(they have too many unexpected digraphs though)
 
Japanese is nice like that. One sound per vowel. Other vowel sounds are combinations that actually make sense. Like 'ai' is the 'eye' sound.
 
Schwa-rzenegger.
 
it's a conspiracy!
 
@githubphagocyte Most people I know pronounce "bar" like a pirate. With a schwa sound, it would be like "buhrr" which is hard to even say in one syllable (it's not the same as the burr in burrow)
 
5:38 PM
@Geobits German does that, too. But we still have two ways to pronounce most vowels (which people aren't even aware of... they just think one is short and one is long, but there's more to it).
 
@Rainbolt so that's where zombies go -- a buhrr!
 
@Rainbolt where I live people say everything like a pirate - it's where the accent came from :)
 
@githubphagocyte "everything like a pirate".
 
How do you say "everything" like a pirate? I can't get the right pronunciation.
 
CRAP!
 
5:39 PM
:P
 
I meant to edit that chat message and accidentally deleted it.
 
failship
 
Now I can't undelete it :(
I was going to post drawception.com/pub/panels/2014/5-21/jBgSZhHHKq-1.png but at this point in the transcript it appears sort of late.
 
Don't lose your dubloons over it!
 
Did anyone here play Yohoho! Puzzle Pirates?
 
5:40 PM
@Rainbolt i played that!
 
No. I tried it once
 
for like a few months!
 
@Rainbolt The joke in that image is a bit breezy for my taste.
 
Then this creep started making out with me randomly and my mom banned me from the game.
 
Haha people get married all the time lol. The game even supports it now.
 
5:41 PM
@Rainbolt didn't Sega buy it?
 
No idea. Last time I played it was still owned by OOO
(Confirmed that edits do reping people, for whoever cares)
 
@Rainbolt trololololol
yeah idk :/
 
Better if you time it to ping him a little tune
 
But it won't show up as two pings. Just... if you click the (1) and they edit, you get repinged
 
ping pingpingping ping, ping ping
a.k.a "shave and a haircut, get a job"
 
5:44 PM
Is pinged a word? Sounds like pinjed (as in binge)
 
@Rainbolt it has to be!
 
Can I derail this and ask a serious programming question
 
@EricTressler no.
 
@EricTressler You should bring that up on meta.
 
How serious is serious? It's obviously Wednesday.
 
5:46 PM
topics are off-topic
 
This came up in an interview, and I think I dealt with it badly. But
 
if you opened this chat in an interview and Rainbolt was the--
noooo
 
Wait what?
 
I've had some memorable interview moments. Let's hear it :D
 
The only kind of interview I've been in was a 3D movie.
 
5:48 PM
I have 3 operations: write(itemId, itemWeight), getItemById(itemId), and getWeightAtPercentile(percentile)
 
@Rainbolt you must be really short.
 
okay, so obviously I store the items in a Map (this is C++)
 
Maps don't fold well. Try a brown bag.
 
now the first two functions are O(log n)
 
Which are you doing more of?
 
5:49 PM
But I also store the weights in a vector when I write, so that write is now O(n) and getWeightAtPercentile is O(1)
Assumption is that all 3 are common
I think I blew it by making write an O(n) operation
 
@cjfaure I actually got that one.
 
Is there an obviously better way to do this than I thought of?
 
@Rainbolt ;D
 
Except when I got it, it made me sad :(
 
@Rainbolt I don't expect anybody to get my jokes, lol
so I just make a bunch of them and offend people ;D
 
5:51 PM
getWeightAtPercentile seems to NEED random access
 
"getWeightAtPercentile" is a badly named function. ;_;
 
unless you make it O(n)
they named it, not me
 
@EricTressler ik
 
So I store the weight data twice, once in a vector just to support "getWeightAtPercentile" in constant time. Any advice here?
 
really it should just be "percentile". ;_;
 
5:52 PM
@EricTressler how finely grained are the potential percentiles? Will they always be integer?
 
no, they're doubles
So I can't take care of breakpoints with bookkeeping
 
and they can take arbitrary values in the range?
 
Yes, I assumed [0,100]
 
(I don't have any answers, just asking questions in the hope that someone else spots an opportunity for improvement...)
 
@githubphagocyte I was hoping for integers, too ;)
 
5:54 PM
I just return weightList[(percentile * weightList.size())/100]
 
@Geobits that was where my bright ideas ran out... :)
 
oh, except I have a special case to take care of percentile = 100
so that I don't access outside of the array; it just returns the greatest element
Maintaining the weightList as sorted means that when I write to it, it's O(n), and I also have the duplicated data in memory, between the idList (map) and weightList (vector)
But even 2 days later, I can't think of a better solution
 
is weightList.size the number of elements in weightList or the sum of its elements' values?
 
the former
so getWeightAtPercentile(50) returns weightList[0.5 * weightList.size()], the median
 
@EricTressler assuming it's sorted of course
 
5:58 PM
I maintain it as sorted
 
o;
 
That's what's bugging me, it makes adding to it O(n); I have to shift on average half the members of weightList every time I add something
 
@EricTressler did they specify the behaviour they wanted, or are you just personally unhappy with O(n)?
 
A more sophisticated solution would be to keep a shorter list of new items, and add them all at once and sort the list
 

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