The Nineteenth Byte

Rusher

00:09

@JonathanVanMatre I'd like to point out that my question contains potential cycles, whereas the other does not. The algorithm to solve such a problem falls into a completely different class of hardness

luser droog

Digging in to this APL/Lukasiewicz thing.

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Q: How to understand the F function in Burks/Warren/Wright's Lukasiewicz Logic Machine

From the bibliography of chapter 1 of the 1962 A Programming Language, I found this intriguingly concise description of a forward-Polish (Lukasiewicz) Logic Machine. And I think I'm with it up to this part on the Logic Function F: What does (2a) mean? How is this a function? Here's my implemen...

Quincunx

00:22

What is our policy for answers that are near-identical to others?

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Q: What qualifies as "enough difference" in posting similar answers?

This user likes to copy people's ideas and translate literally into other languages. For example, this post: http://codegolf.stackexchange.com/a/23951/9498 from my post: http://codegolf.stackexchange.com/a/23822/9498 (note that I golfed mine more after he copied it). His code was in TI-83/84 Bas...

discussion answers

hosch250

00:46

I have seen that they are supposed to be either golfed more or given a different twist, and credit must be given to the original poster.

TimWolla

Oh yeah, I got a "Nice answer"

hosch250

@TimWolla Nice answer, then.

I have both Nice and Popular question, but no nice answer badges yet.

luser droog

01:05

I've got "Good answer" on a bad answer. :(

hosch250

You mean the one with a smiley?

It isn't that bad.

I just know C++ and a little Python, so I can't do much (or anything) cool with my programs like that.

luser droog

I wonder if APL had to wait until the invention of the shift-reduce parser. The 62 book only shows how to parse fully-parenthesized expressions.

Knuth's LR(k) paper came out in 65.

Doorknob

0

Q: Write the most terrible and annoying website possible

Your challenge today is to write the worst website you possibly can! Rules: You must use HTML combined with any other language(s) of your choice. (For example, CSS and JavaScript might be common choices.) Your goal is to create the worst website possible! This includes but is not limited to: ...

popularity-contest html

enjoy ;)

luser droog

If I can get this Lukasiewicz thing working, I think I can implement the Turtle Graphics via implementing LOGO.

@hosch250 Which one with a smiley? I'm talking about the Hello World as a big echo with @ signs.

hosch250

Yes.

luser droog

01:14

Oh. right that smiley.

I do put them everywhere.

luser droog

01:27

Hmm. Is there a language called "Brainfsck" yet? (with an 's').

TimWolla

0

A: Proposed questions sandbox - Mark X

Minesweeper Solver code-golf algorithm We already generated Minesweeper fields, but someone really has to sweep those generated mines before they explode. Your task is to write a Minesweeper Solver interfacing the accepted solution of “Working Minesweeper”. Rules: No Standard "loopholes" wh...

luser droog

It's already used as a euphemism.

@TimWolla That sounds neat.

TimWolla

@luserdroog What's your opinion on my question in the last paragraph?

luser droog

I'm still loading the page, but the excerpt looks interesting.

luser droog

01:45

Woah. I missed this one.

4

Q: Create a random 3D asteroid

Imagine you are working on a 3D adaptation of the classical video game Asteroids. Your task is to write an algorithm that can create a random 3D asteroid. This is a popularity contest, not code golf. Write nice code and create interesting results. Add other cool features if you want. Rules: Y...

popularity-contest graphical-output

I wonder how you'd bust them up. Tetrahedral partitioning?

Jonathan Van Matre

02:44

@Rusher @PeterTaylor OK, OK. I hadn't given a full read to Rusher's question; I was just using it as an example based on Rusher's description of it.

And I am aware of the differences when the graph is acyclical. Negation of the graph enables solving for the longest path by solving for the shortest.

luser droog

Lukasiewicz Logic Interpreter. gist.github.com/luser-dr00g/9519896

Might make a good challenge.

Anybody know how to get the epsilon that looks like "within" as an html entity? & epsilon ; looks like ε

or not.

ε

TimWolla

03:03

@luserdroog Any opinion yet?

:)

luser droog

Oh I think it's good. It's not quite my area, so I'm not sure how I'd go about solving it. Barring that, I can't really evaluate it. Except to say that I do like linking-up new challenges with the previous ones, making a network of related implementation goodies.

Maybe I'm distracted. It needs some kind of backtracking search, right?

Any opinion on my Lukasiewicz madness?

TimWolla

@luserdroog Backtracking is not possible. Do you back track in Minesweeper once you blew up yourself? ;)

What's your opinion on the question at the end? a) Communicate directly with the other program or b) Only use the format as input / output of a function?

luser droog

Not exactly. But planting flags and then removing them once the bombs are determined, is, I think.

Oops. I didn't see the question. I'll give it some thought.

You'd need 2 pipes.

TimWolla

@luserdroog Well, I never remove a flag once I placed it. I did not take the challenge myself yet, but I would probably go for an interative solution:

luser droog

And there may be issues getting the handshake right, I think.

TimWolla

03:13

until solved
  for cell in field
    if cell is obvious
      fill in
      break

luser droog

I'm having trouble thinking of an example where I used flags this way.

TimWolla

@luserdroog So rather a function: string nextStep(string situation)?

luser droog

It's when you've got an even row and an odd number, and one end connects to another partially-known piece.

I guess the tricky situations turn up more often in Expert mode on the classic MsWindows version.

But I've definitely used flags speculatively.

TimWolla

Just fired up my fancy new Windows 8 Minesweeper App

Let's see if I can solve expert :D

luser droog

The "adventure mode" is loads of fun, but steals too much time.

And it won't share the screen with Netflix. :)

TimWolla

03:18

@luserdroog Yeah

Aaaand I blew myself

To bad :(

luser droog

I can't remember the details but I have encountered difficulty getting a program to both send output to another program and receive its output via pipes.

But I also remember getting it to work eventually, somehow.

So I don't see any issues with the challenge, except, the question text is rather short. It could use some jazzing-up. :)

Usually if you blow after the first few clicks, you call "mulligan" and play again.

It's only after you open up a patch that the "game" starts.

TimWolla

@luserdroog I suspect using pipes / popen / whatever would kick out to many programming languages

Though it would be nice for GolfScript

luser droog

GS, and js

Maybe not too many.

TimWolla

JS can communicate with other processes when run inside node.js

(I do test my CoffeeScript solutions in node.js)

mniip

04:15

@luserdroog I hope you didn't use named pipes? Those are terrible. Who even invented them

luser droog

Maybe not there, but I have used them.

mniip

Btw, I managed to solve the 'Write a function that returns something different every time it is called' in haskell

luser droog

I made .signature a named pipe, with a demon in perl to produce random quotes.

My login script would check if it was running and launch it if not.

or .profile or whatever

mniip

:P codegolf.stackexchange.com/a/24015/7162

@luserdroog Oh my. You're evil.

luser droog

I even ran an http server the same way.

on the university unix server no less!

Never got in trouble until the server crashed when I was downloading porn into a private subdirectory of /tmp

mniip

04:25

Bye o/

xfix

13:16

wow, the number of rooms increased lately.

TimWolla

20:34

meta.codegolf.stackexchange.com/a/1262/3396 Ready to go? Yes / No?

Some mistakes in my tests?

Rusher

21:03

Checking now

What would a computer use the question marks for?

@TimWolla In case you needed to be tagged to see this

TimWolla

Just saw it

@Rusher Just in case a computer would need them to store something

The Python program claims to support ? as well

Rusher

I was just thinking.. I use them as a memory device when determining what move to make

But a computer would always make the best move right?

And wouldnt need a memory device

Like... I'll find a move where my odds are 50% and plant question marks

Then i find another move where my odds are 30%

I'll mark those instead

etc etc until I am satisfied that I have a good move

TimWolla

As I said: Just in case a solution wants them it can use them

If not: Fine as well

@Rusher Do you miss some good moves in the tests?

Rusher

In what tests

Oh... I was getting there. Sorry

I assume a good move is the one with the best odds right?

TimWolla

A good move is one that is 100% correct

Say a number 3 with no attached flags and 3 unknown neighbours

-> all 3 of them have to be a mine

Rusher

21:11

So all of your inputs are guaranteed to have a good move?

Because not all minesweeper puzzles are solvable with 100% confidence

TimWolla

@Rusher It may take any field if there is no clear move

"otherwise pick any untouched field and open it."

The tests serve the purpose of testing some basic logic

The program should be able to solve any solvable situation. Is that unclear from my wording in the question?

Rusher

"Working towards a solution" and "sane move" are both subjective, so I had to clarify

TimWolla

Any suggestions how to make it clear in the question?

Rusher

Sure. Remove the ? option and then say "Your choice must follow the best odds for survival."

That way, if multiple 100% moves exist, any can be chosen. If not, a 75% move will be chosen over a 50% move, and so on

And nobody can simply place ? everywhere and claim they survived

Your last test case appears to be impossible, but it's hard to explain why in few words

TimWolla

Possibly, but it should only test, whether the both given choices are taken

Both of them are clear choices

Rusher

21:21

Err ignore that. I followed all of your test cases.

They all work

TimWolla

So, I edited the rules based on your suggestions. I think it's ready to go?

Rusher

Can you check me on this?

TimWolla

On what exactly?

Rusher

0 0 and 0 1 obviously cannot both be mines, correct?

TimWolla

Which test case?

Rusher

21:23

Last one

TimWolla

@Rusher Yeah, correct

Rusher

but one of them is a mine

TimWolla

Yes

Rusher

So that satisfies the 2 at 1 1

There are now two mines touching the 2

TimWolla

Hu? I cannot follow, sorry.

Rusher

21:24

The 2 at 1-1

TimWolla

Oh, nvm

I was being blind

Rusher

It is now satisfied, right?

TimWolla

Yes

Looks like that test case is broken again

Rusher

So the output 1 0 2 is probably bad

Because that would unsatisfy the 2

TimWolla

Yep, I'll try to construct something

Rusher

21:26

lol just make a board in the actual minesweeper program (probably be easier than doing it in your head)

TimWolla

Thanks

@Rusher Oh, I did, but failed at minifying it

Rusher

NP... I might answer if time allows this weekend. Good luck

TimWolla

Thanks for your help

Rusher

If this is not the place for discussions like this, someone tag me and let me know. I'm not really sure what topics are encouraged here. Thanks.

TimWolla

@Rusher I think it would suffice to change the two 2's in the second row to a 3, wouldn't it?

hosch250

21:54

How can we undo a bad post review?

I just reviewed this:

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A: 4, 8, 15, 16, 23, 42

Someone please make this in ArnoldC !!!

I switched tabs for a second, then came back and accidentally clicked Looks Good.

I couldn't find a way to undo it, so I flagged it again.

TimWolla

22:08

@Rusher It gone out, Thanks again

Gareth

22:20

@hosch250 I've just downvoted and voted to delete.

hosch250

22:54

@Gareth thanks.

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