The Nineteenth Byte

ais523

7:00 AM

this is the same keyboard layout that all the Jelly characters come from

hyper-neutrino

→ 5 messages moved to Sandbox

Aiden Chow

@Nobody ik its mariolang, but what does it do??

@hyper-neutrino ah, as expected

saw that one coming

hyper-neutrino

the APL keyboard is actually kind of helpful especially when i'm typing formal logic stuff on discord

Nobody

@AidenChow make the memory

emanresu A

@ais523 Re:Direction?

Aiden Chow

7:01 AM

apl as in the coding language ?

hyper-neutrino

yes

Nobody

2/3/5/8/.../144/233/0/1/2/3/.../9/10/11

how do i check if a num is neg?
Mariolang

ais523

@emanresuA that uses a different set of arrows, which I didn't memorise how to type

Nobody

i know the pseudocode

Aiden Chow

@Nobody the brainfuck thing not work ?

ais523

7:01 AM

checking whether a number is negative in bignum brainfuck is surprisingly difficult

Nobody

@AidenChow well

ais523

because if you set off in the wrong direction and keep going, you get into an infinite loop, so you have to reverse direction every now and then and reverse all your progress

Nobody

[] in brainfuck is very messy in mario

Aiden Chow

oh negative, u were asking for checking if one num is greater than another earlier, got confused with that

Nobody

both works

ais523

7:03 AM

the competitive game BF Joust is pretty much based on that principle

Nobody

is checking a number negative even doable in bf?

ais523

yes

Nobody

like maybe you can do

Unrelated String

can you even copy a possibly-negative bignum from one cell to another without knowing its sign already

Nobody

find its sign

Unrelated String

7:03 AM

that really does seem hard

Nobody

;-)

ais523

it is possible, and uses basically the same code as checking for negative (you just copy all the changes you make to it to another cell with reversed sign)

Nobody

checking for negative (: code?

:)

ais523

but it's way more complicated than most algorithms, and has quadratic performance

Unrelated String

yikes

Nobody

7:05 AM

@ais523 how

code

;-)

i suppose like -++----++++++++----------------++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ and every time check if it is 0???

ais523

the pseudocode is something like: x = 0; for(;;) { check if the cell is x, and break if it is; check if the cell is -x, and break if it is; increment x}

Nobody

oh

nice

ok

input
make sure input is not 0
>+
[-<+>>+<]
check if 0
something?

ais523

you can reduce the constant factor by checking a range of values near x rather than a single value

hmm, I wonder if that makes it possible to run faster than quadratic? say you check the numbers from n to 2n, then from -n to -2n, then from 2n to 4n, then from -n to -4n, etc.

Nobody

is there a way of making this code more efficient?

ais523

something I've been thinking a lot about recently is fastest-algorithm in Turing tarpits

Nobody

7:08 AM

@ais523 calculating n and 2n and looping might take time

Aiden Chow

@Nobody bruh not gonna read through all of that

ais523

@Nobody it does, but it may still save more time than it costs

PyGamer0

CMC: convert from unary to decimal

Aiden Chow

unary as in a bunch of 1's ??

Nobody

@AidenChow the important part is this

PyGamer0

7:10 AM

@AidenChow yes

Aiden Chow

can that be taken as a string ?

Nobody

how

PyGamer0

@Nobody please post it as a link.. takes up space..

@AidenChow yes

Aiden Chow

if so, u can do lambda s:len(s) in python right

Nobody

what is unary

like 11111 => 5

PyGamer0

7:11 AM

@AidenChow yes

Nobody

@AidenChow yes i think so

Aiden Chow

k cool

PyGamer0

ngn/k 1 byte: #

ais523

I think technically the "represent a number as that number of 1s" format is called "bijective unary" but people abbreviate it to "unary"

Nobody

is unary like 11111=>5 and 11111111111=>11?

Aiden Chow

7:12 AM

@Nobody most likely yes

Nobody

well then

PyGamer0

CMC: Convert unary to decimal but the input is given as an integer: 1111111111111 not a string

Nobody

easy, len(str(i))

python's sum module is stupid

PyGamer0

@Nobody python has a sum module?

Aiden Chow

@PyGamer0 Desmos, f(n)=floor(logn)+1

hyper-neutrino

7:13 AM

just DS in jelly lol (digit sum)

PyGamer0

just #$ in ngn/k \o/

Nobody

pretty sure best method in python3
python2: len(`i`)

Unrelated String

just l in brachylog :P

Nobody

@PyGamer0 sum(1,2,3)=6, sum([1,2,3])=6

but say

sum('1','2','3') won't work

hyper-neutrino

well you'd need to make it a function for it to be a valid submission so lambda x:len(str(x)) or lambda x:len(`x`)

Nobody

7:15 AM

@hyper-neutrino was alzy

PyGamer0

@Nobody well sum has a starting value of 0...

Nobody

@PyGamer0 yah

which is why i say it is stupid

why not just

PyGamer0

try sum(['a','b'], '')

Nobody

from functools import*

reduce(lambda x,y:x+y,['a','b'])

PyGamer0

oh that doesn't work

@Nobody you can just use "".join(...)

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/ATO/code", line 1, in <module>
    print(sum(["a","b"],""))
TypeError: sum() can't sum strings [use ''.join(seq) instead]

Nobody

7:16 AM

what about this

{1,2},{2,3},{4,5}

hyper-neutrino

you can't add sets

PyGamer0

@Nobody do you want vectorised sum or what?

hyper-neutrino

if you want union that's | which you'd have to do with a reduce

if you want vectorized sum you can't use sets cuz those aren't even ordered

Unrelated String

i know there's also a union function somewhere

Aiden Chow

cant do vectorized sum on sets cuz they not ordered im pretty sure

oh lol said the same thing at the same time

Nobody

7:18 AM

@hyper-neutrino union

Unrelated String

okay yeah it's literally the static set.union

hyper-neutrino

oh that's one byte shorter than set.__or__ lol

Unrelated String

lmao

PyGamer0

@Nobody foldl(set.__or__, {}, ...)

pxeger

@UnrelatedString set.union isn't static; it's an unbound method, so its first argument must be a set. (the following arguments can be any iterable though)

Unrelated String

7:19 AM

oh

i actually had no idea it accepted non-sets for the following arguments lmao

PyGamer0

CMC: Vectorised addition sum. [[1,2],[3,4]] -> [4,6]

CMC: Build an n×n multiplication table.

Aiden Chow

@PyGamer0 just for list of lists right, and each list length is the same ??

PyGamer0

@AidenChow yeah

ngn.codeberg.page/…

^ both my cmcs in k

emanresu A

@hyper-neutrino Does {}.__or__ work?

pxeger

{} is a dict, not a set

it would have to be set().union

or, if you don't mind having a random extra thing in your set, you could do something like {id}.union

emanresu A

7:25 AM

→ 2 giant ~~chunks of code~~ carrots moved to The Nineteenth Bakery

pxeger

Please be mindful of how much stuff you put in the chat

hyper-neutrino

wait if the first argument of set.union must be a set but the second can be a list, does that mean that it always iterates over the second, even if the first is shorter?

like if I do set.union({ 10 items }, { 5 million items }) will it be fast or slow

pxeger

@pxeger Huh, when you try to reply to a moved message, the reply gets removed

Aiden Chow

@PyGamer0 Sum in Geogebra (at least i think thats valid as per code golf rules, mathematica has builtin answers all the time :p)

PyGamer0

@AidenChow ato.pxeger.com/…

Unrelated String

7:27 AM

i'd imagine it does something to not naively iterate on sets

probably checks the type

emanresu A

@pxeger Huh - I geuss it's in another room

pxeger

@hyper-neutrino if the second one isn't a set, it will be converted to one, which means it has to iterate over the others

emanresu A

I like these new RO tools but I'm kinda worried that I'm being a bit trigger-happy

pxeger

github.com/python/cpython/blob/…

PyGamer0

are mod names italic in chat?

hyper-neutrino

7:28 AM

@pxeger right, but if they both are, will it automatically iterate through the shorter of the two

@PyGamer0 yes although I'm not sure if it's because we're always considered ROs, or if mods are just italicized as well as ROs while being separate

Aiden Chow

@PyGamer0 uh yeah, just look at hyper neutrino's name

the default.

@hyper-neutrino why would the speed differ? it has to copy all elements in either case

Unrelated String

because sets are implemented as some or another kind of hash table

the default.

and?

lyxal

@PyGamer0 ∑ for the first, ɾ:"ΠvΠ$ẇ for the second in vyxal

ATaco

7:30 AM

@PyGamer0 RProgN2, 5 bytes. T#+;)

Unrelated String

i think there are some varieties that would actually just let you compose them some way

PyGamer0

@ATaco ;)

Unrelated String

but actually yeah no you'd have to copy them both anyhow since it's not in place

hyper-neutrino

actually wait nvm i was thinking of in-place merge lol

Unrelated String

and they are mutable, but you're not mutating them yet

so yeah it doesn't matter

ATaco

7:32 AM

The final ) can be removed if the output can be across the stack

the default.

for in-place merge it's clearly faster to add a few elements to a large set than to add a lot of elements to a small set

PyGamer0

flax: Σ for the first one, ×⌜⍸ for the second one

@ATaco is rprogn2 stack based?

ATaco

Aye

lyxal

@PyGamer0 ɾ:Mvƒ* in vyxal

ATaco

My earliest “golf lang”, the name derives from Reverse Polish Notation

PyGamer0

7:35 AM

@lyxal did i beat vyxal by 3 bytes 7_7

lyxal

because there's no outer-product, yes.

ATaco

Did I beat Vyxal? What a world

lyxal

@ATaco no, you didn't

that's answering the second

ATaco

Ah…

lyxal

yeah, the first one is just ∑

PyGamer0

7:37 AM

@lyxal wait, if 0-indexed is allowed then flax is 2 bytes: ×⌜

Nobody

can anyone give me a thing that checks if a number is smaller than the other? in marioalang

lyxal

@PyGamer0 well it's your CMC

is it?

yeah

mariolang

lmaooo

7:38 AM

@Nobody lambda a,b:-a>-b

ATaco

@Nobody a<b..?

Aiden Chow

he meant in mariolang

pretty sure u can just port the brainfuck code i sent earlier tho

looks like very similar code instructions

Nobody

@AidenChow yeah but it's super big then

because [ ] in bf is a little complicated in marioalng

PyGamer0

@Nobody Its a me mario! Take-a x as input, Take-a y as input. Check-a if x is less then y-a and print-a the result-a. Bye Bye.

5

Aiden Chow

@PyGamer0 lmao

Nobody

7:40 AM

what?

its mario-lang

which

like SPL

link

@Nobody my own :P

7:41 AM

oh no

MarioLANG

yah

PyGamer0

@Nobody its theoretical :P

Nobody

...

plz

PyGamer0

Did you know that flax uses the ₹ as a quick?

Aiden Chow

bro literally no one here except u knows mariolang

Nobody

erm...............ok

ATaco

7:43 AM

Prolly need to work that one out yourself, not sure anyone here has messed with it

Nobody

ok

PyGamer0

esolangs.org/wiki/MarioLANG

Aiden Chow

looks doable tho, looking at the commands available

PyGamer0

^

Nobody

yah

if possible and convieneient can you share the link again? thnx

Aiden Chow

7:46 AM

19

Q: Brainfuck compare 2 numbers as greater than or less than

How can I compare two numbers with an inequality? (greater than or less than) I want to compare single digits For example 1 2 5 3 9 2 etc.

brainfuck

2

Nobody

thanks

pxeger

8:09 AM

@UnrelatedString If you use |= it will mutate it in place

Unrelated String

yeah exactly

which is why non-in-place union couldn't hypothetically get away with not copying everything with some funky underlying data structures

PyGamer0

TIL you can do x?:y in c... (gcc compiler extension)

Unrelated String

yep lol

PyGamer0

> ISO C99 supports complex floating data types, and as an extension GCC supports them in C90 mode and in C++. GCC also supports complex integer data types which are not part of ISO C99. You can declare complex types using the keyword _Complex. As an extension, the older GNU keyword __complex__ is also supported.

wish c had operator / function overloading

New Posts

0

Q: Eh, codegolf shmodegolf

This challenge is about implementing Shm-reduplication, originating in Yiddish, where one takes a word, duplicates it, and replaces the first syllable in the second word with "Shm" in order to indicate that one does not care. Some examples include: word -> word shmord baby -> baby shmaby sale ->...

code-golf string parsing

PyGamer0

8:25 AM

case '0'...'9':psh(l[i]-'0');break;

PyGamer0

8:45 AM

TIL C can have operations that vectorise.

very cool

ATaco

Sort of makes sense? C Speaks Computer, and Computers can Vectorize

If C couldn't Vectorize than native vectorization would be a pain

emanresu A

@lyxal vyxal.pythonanywhere.com/#WyIiLCIiLCLJvjp2KiIsIiIsIjUiXQ==

lyxal

Shhh I'm small brain sometimes

PyGamer0

@ATaco yeah vector instructions amiright

ATaco

Vector Instructions are like regular math but magic.

PyGamer0

8:50 AM

(context: i was reading the gcc compiler extensions for c)

PyGamer0

11:35 AM

// cursed idea: postfix english
dog mat on sat // dog sat on mat
mat on bat a cat a over flew who was sitting // a bat flew over a cat who was sitting on a mat

pxeger

12:20 PM

→ 22 messages moved to Off-Topic TNB

Ginger

probably for the best lol

lyxal

12:31 PM

Dang

that makes me the only RO here who hasn't moved messages yet

PyGamer0

12:56 PM

@lyxal hmm true

Romanp

1:09 PM

@ais523 "I'm doing my part" codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/247469/…

Radvylf Programs

1:36 PM

@hyper-neutrino The first one

Your name has the classes username moderator owner, removing owner de-italicizes it

hyper-neutrino

oh I don't know why I didn't think to check that

Radvylf Programs

I mean, I was entirely expecting to have to go into the JS and do some snooping, I didn't think of it either :p

hyper-neutrino

I wonder, if I am added to a private room on another site, will I show as a moderator and/or an owner? (since mods can see all private rooms on their own site only)

lyxal

1:58 PM

@hyper-neutrino username moderator owner

PyGamer0

3:13 PM

i just got chat rolled by emanresu A...

mathcat

whoah where?

New Posts

3:40 PM

0

Q: Village Gangs - Max Count

Village Gangs - Max Count In a village there are N people whose identification numbers are from 1 to N. These villagers team together among themselves to form a certain number of gangs. There may be some villagers who are not part of any of these gangs. A combination (i,j) where 1 <= i,j <= N ind...

code-golf code-challenge optimization fastest-algorithm

Ginger

3:57 PM

^ VTC as stolen from homework site ^

PyGamer0

4:11 PM

@NewPosts lol

DLosc

@PyGamer0 BQN, 0-based, 4 bytes: ×⌜˜↕

Or 1-based for 6 bytes: ×⌜˜1+↕

Pip, 0-based, 6 bytes: B*_MCa

Or 1-based for 8 bytes: $*U GMCa

Radvylf Programs

4:32 PM

Yo dawg, I herd you like chat so I put a chat in yo chat so you can chat while u chat

gist.github.com/Radvylf/bdbaedb4c2bd1ba1127ea3251558bec6

Install and go to chat.stackexchange.com/chatonchat

DLosc

@PyGamer0 Here's a one-liner in HBL in 7.5 bytes: <'(**.,)(0.)(0.

Also two other solutions that are the same length.

pxeger

@DLosc is there such a thing as a more-than-one-liner in HBL?

DLosc

Yeah, the other two I linked are a two-liner and three-liner

That was one of my design goals for HBL: make it so that multiline programs were often the golfiest way to do things. I only somewhat achieved that goal, but there are cases where it's true.

pxeger

huh

DLosc

For example

The helper function could be inlined, but then all the close-parens would have to be explicitly included, making it half a byte longer.

Romanp

4:52 PM

Very accurate, HBL: dloscutoff.github.io/hbl/?f=0&p=MSsx

DLosc

Lol

Even better

des54321

@DLosc dare i ask why math works like that now

DLosc

I don't know, dare you? ;)

DLosc

5:28 PM

Hint

des54321

okay, so +12 means 1+2, and a bit of playing around shows that +1 is incrementing one?

i still dont fully under stand whats going on here

1+2 = 16 and 2+1 = undefined

DLosc

@des54321 This is Lisp (although the outermost parentheses are implicit because golf), so every expression is a function followed by arguments.

So in 1+2, 1 is the function and + and 2 are the arguments.

des54321

aha, and youre overloading things an incredible amount so that 1 can mean 1 or addition

DLosc

*exponentiation, but yes

pxeger

Why is '' not a thing?

DLosc

5:37 PM

Depending on what you mean, the answer is either "because I didn't think it would be very useful" or "because I haven't implemented it yet"

If you mean quoting something twice, I couldn't think of golf scenarios where that would be necessary.

So I plan to use '' for other stuff.

pxeger

yeah, I meant why '' isn't a digraph

also, is ') a thing?

DLosc

Yes, the plan is for '(...), (...'), ''(...), (...''), and '(...') all to mean different things.

Can't remember which is which off the top of my head, but one of those is string literals and another is numeric literals.

(and '(...) is already list literals, ofc)

And I think I was also planning to have ''xy be a token for any two characters x and y... it's been a while since I worked on HBL, but hopefully most of the ideas are written down somewhere. :P

Ginger

oh my god

I just looked up Mario on Wikipedia and:

> Full name: Mario Mario

WHAT

well, here's a actual version of @PyGamer0's code:

IT'SA ME MARIO!
LET'SA MAKE AN X AND A Y
WHAT'SA X AND Y?
IS'A X < Y?
WAHOO!
TELL'A ME "YES"
OH NO!
TELL'A ME "NO"
OKEY DOKEY
BYE BYE

thejonymyster

6:45 PM

@Ginger yup, i believe its only from the movie (1993) but i guess thats enough for wikipedia so long as its reported on? Lol

@DLosc i wanna hear abt this lang, where do i start backreading?

des54321

@thejonymyster github.com/dloscutoff/hbl is the github i believe

thejonymyster

ty ty

Radvylf Programs

7:08 PM

Why the frick does Chrome think every terminal emulator I make should be translated from Arabic

Ginger

ಠ_ಠ

emanresu A

7:29 PM

@PyGamer0 how lol

Any geedback?

oic ^^

Ginger

> geedback

des54321

> geedback

Ginger

impostor more sus
impostor very sus
impostor very sus
imposter go into of the vents
amogus goes to the next sus town
emergency meeting
impostor more sus
eject "ඞ"
red was the impostor

emanresu A

Mar 7 at 20:04, by emanresu A

GAME: [RED, GREEN, BLUE]
RED IMPOSTOR
RED SUS IF INPUT
BLUE SUS RED IF SUS?
BLUE TALK GREEN
EMERGENCY MEETING
WHILE RED IS NOT SUS
VENT 1

DLosc

8:11 PM

@emanresuA What are your thoughts about allowing languages that are on ATO as well as those that are on TIO? I don't know if that would expand the pool much, but (for example) Whython doesn't have an Esolangs or Rosetta Code entry yet.

emanresu A

I guess yeah

What do you think about allowing any language used on this site enough?

thejonymyster

tangent; your rules cite the original challenge's "It must have a free interpreter (as in beer)."

what does this idiom mean

hyper-neutrino

"free as in beer" clarifies that "free" means in the monetary sense

so not free speech or probably more sensible in the case of an interpreter, free when it comes to licensing

howtogeek.com/howto/31717/…

thejonymyster

ah works for me

ty

its weird because then it goes on to clarify what it means in the next sentence

but i digress

caird coinheringaahing

8:28 PM

"free as in beer" is such a weird sentiment to me, because I have never had free beer :P

The closest is someone buying me a beer, but that's still not "free" :P

emanresu A

I interpreted that as "beer is a kind of software".

thejonymyster

right same

imo it should be "free (as in beer) interpreter"

so its clarification("free","beer") instead of clarification("free interpreter","beer")

emanresu A

8:49 PM

→ 11 attempts at ZWSP strikethrough moved to Sandbox

emanresu A

9:31 PM

@RadvylfPrograms rSNBATWPL LYAL

Radvylf Programs

10:01 PM

@emanresuA wtf already?!

That's a lotta votes

emanresu A

It's popular, although I'm not sure it will remain that way after we learn it

Unrelated String

lmao

Radvylf Programs

Welcome to the nineteenth Learn You A Lang for Great Good! Today, we'll be learning rSNBATWPL, the last language you will ever learn, for more reasons than one. Feel free to ask @RadvylfPrograms if you have any questions. During the event, feel free to post CMCs to practice rSN (._.MCs), ask questions about the language, and so on.

8

caird coinheringaahing

doesn't LYAL start in an hour?

Radvylf Programs

Oh oops

caird coinheringaahing

10:04 PM

sorry, 2 hours :P

emanresu A

We can repin that when it starts

Radvylf Programs

Well, that wouldn't've worked for me timing-wise anyway

emanresu A

When does work for you?

Radvylf Programs

Actually, I think my family's off doing some random nonsense tonight, so I likely will be able to at the correct time

Unrelated String

nice

emanresu A

10:06 PM

Okay cool :)

ATaco

All the brackets are curly, this scares me

emanresu A

In the mean time I'll see what I can do to get it running on DSO so we can have permalinks

Radvylf Programs

Ooh nice

It's not a particularly hard language to get set up IIRC, although everything in between the brackets is pure chaos it's relatively well behaved as a black box

ATaco

“Non’t” now that is a keyword

emanresu A

@RadvylfPrograms Yeah, and I guess I can just copy the polyfill

Unrelated String

10:08 PM

@emanresuA and errors that don't hang your browser :)

emanresu A

Unlikely

JS doesn't have a good way to do that

Radvylf Programs

Well, for errors it does