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12:07 AM
Is this a dupe of this?
 
I would say no
Because one's generically helpful PHP tips while the other is a specifically focused tip question
 
12:39 AM
oh the site is read-only
 
Planned maintenance this time
 
does pytorch and random use same set of random?
 
Feb 7 at 2:24, by emanresu A
2 hours ago, by emanresu A
Stackstatus is useless
 
27
Q: Planned maintenance scheduled for Friday, March 18th, 00:30-2:00 UTC (Thursday, March 17th, 8:30-10:00 PM EDT)

Aaron Bertrandtl;dr Planned service interruption that will impact all Stack Overflow & Stack Exchange sites, Jobs, and Chat. All sites may be read-only for up to 90 minutes beginning shortly after Friday, 18 March at 00:30 UTC (Thursday, March 17 at 8:30 PM EDT). Enterprise cloud hosted instances will not be i...

 
They never put anything on stackstatus.net though
 
12:49 AM
i feel like i remembered this at one point but how do you go about proving the limit of x^x/x! again?
i want to say it involves ratio test or smth like that but i don't remember if that's the right name or even a valid thing to use here
 
how long does the maintenance usually take
 
x! = 1 * 2 * 3 * 4 * 5... * x
x^x = x * x * x * x * x
Every term of the latter is ≥ the former. I think that's the ratio test?
 
i am not sure that proves the limit diverges though but maybe it does
iirc ratio test is like the ratio between consecutive terms is > 1 as n→inf but i could be remembering it wrong
 
@DialFrost 30-60min
 
:(
 
12:55 AM
@hyper-neutrino Yeah, pretty sure it's that
Or... x^x-1 / (2 * 3 * 4 * 5 * ... * x) ≥ 1, and x / 1 tends to infinity, so their product tends to infinity.
 
1:28 AM
user image
5
 
0
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

DialFrostSandbox time! Your task is to output a sandbox of size n Testcases 1 -> /-/ |.| /-/ 2 -> /--/ |..| |..| /--/ 3 -> /---/ |...| |...| |...| /---/ Meta Should i make the sandbox of sides n**2?

 
we are no stranger to golf
 
Well I don't think you were on the bus just now
So it doesn't really count
 
@Niko You know the rules, and so do I
 
What's funny is that if an IRL stranger asked me to scream into a microphone for 5 minutes, I'd say "Heck no go away" but when it's someone from code golf I comply
7
 
1:57 AM
 
tf?
 
2:35 AM
@lyxal this implies that if there was another golfer on the bus you'd have to have a fight to the death
6
 
while the golfer are also stranger to you
 
3:10 AM
@JoKing A golf to the death, more like
 
3:45 AM
ök i got a idea
i will make another bitmap font
 
The life is to golf or to be golfed
 
but here is the idea: i will use k to generate the font (oK that sounds like a bad idea)
@allxy Wezl is golfed to death already.
 
@JoKing I never said the bus ride had to be peaceful...
 
4:41 AM
I just showed a friend I haven't seen since last year pre-lockdown the loud lyxal video and his reaction was "you haven't change at all"
 
lol
TIL villagers escape from minecarts when you zombify them in bedrock ಠ_ಠ
 
5:11 AM
Everyone else in the Web engineering course workshop is talking about using hash maps and array lists to store messages and their replies while I'm just over here with my custom tree structure
 
Nice :P
My web design course is teaching us to use tables for layout
 
5:44 AM
There's a kid here who claims his favourite language is brainfrick. Someone's never delved far into the world of esolangs
 
ಠ_ಠ probably just likes it because of the name. Show him Malbolge
13 hours ago, by DLosc
user image
 
Nah he's too far away and besides it was a conversation I overheard + I'm an introvert + that'd be too much social + I'm working on an assignment
 
+ he might become a golfer and then you'd have to duel to the death
 
Yeah, and I like living
 
6:04 AM
me and my classmate wrote a AI that plays game, and now it always stand still after training a bit
afk somehow is local minimum for loss
 
Hey so that guy whomst's favourite language is brainfrick? He pronounces python weirdly.
It is prounoucned pi-thin right?
 
Yes
 
And not pi-thon?
 
Yeah
 
Good
 
6:25 AM
Although I'd say both are acceptable, I use pi-thin
 
So I do have permission to think weirdly of this guy
To classify him as a heathen that is
 
@lyxal what
 
Idk something just sounds off when he says python. Everyone else seems to pronounce it normally but not this guy
 
@emanresuA wut pi-thin????
 
okay i happened to have an audio recording of an australian saying python and nvm
 
6:26 AM
@UnrelatedString what
 
by have i mean run into while figuring out what the fuck you're on about
like wiktionary had just ipa for the uk and us pronunciations but for some reason there was an audio recording for australian
 
Wait what why is this a thing?
 
good question
 
Tf?
 
also the recording sounds like
oddly similar to your voice
compared to my conception of what the most general australian would sound like
 
6:29 AM
I swear it wasn't me
 
lol
sussy
 
Jan 6 at 0:04, by lyxal
G'Joink mate, come and have a chin wag while I throw another shrimp on the barbie
 
@UnrelatedString admittedly caird did once say I sound like the amalgamation of every Australian they've ever heard
Sep 13, 2021 at 2:37, by caird coinheringaahing
Also, I think the video is the first time I've heard your voice, and idk how, but you are a perfect amalgamation of every aussie I've ever heard :P
 
@ophact check again thx (new one abit silly)
@lyxal i forgot ur austrialian :/
 
why the :/
 
6:43 AM
random :D
 
I'm almost disappointed that you can't switch on a null in Java and report an error on the first null parameter to a function
 
@Adám yes but I really can’t get past the fact that it is written in runes.
 
@AviFS I see you adapted my code :P
 
6:48 AM
@emanresuA Thank you so much @emanresuA! I was so fed up with BF stuff; that helped a ton.
 
Like it'd be cool if it compiled and worked
 
I'll definitely credit you.
 
No need. It's a trivial interpreter, and the code's mostly yours
 
(Your mismatched bracket remover only removes mismatched ], and leaves mismatched[, btw)
 
I know. But I don't think people are going to have mismatched ] while typing in code.
 
6:50 AM
@emanresuA Did you check? It'll definitely be once I'm done with it, haha. But psychologically/emotionally/motivationally that was really big. The first step is the hardest!
And I wasn't up to getting one working from scratch or spending any more time looking for one I could adapt.
@lyxal I--
Why.
Why?
@Seggan Why did you choose Java for Jyxal?
 
@AviFS because I needed to check for the first null value out of 3 possibly null values
And also get the name of the first null parameter
And I wanted to do so without using 3 if statements
 
No, why Java? I'm butthurt.
 
Oh java? Blame uni not me
It's for an assignment lol
 
Oh, then you're forgiven. But what about Seggan and Jyxal? I haven't asked.
 
Jyxal is in the process of being migrated to kotlin btw
 
6:57 AM
Can someone remind me what Java has that one of C/C++/Go, or a higher level lang, don't?
 
It has javadoc
 
it has the force of the american education system behind it
 
@lyxal I'm equally irrationally opposed to Kotlin. Maybe that's not fair.
@UnrelatedString Wait, is that actually a thing? We also learned it in college.
I didn't realize it was a thing, though.
That was the only language our department ever used. Ever.
 
What's wrong with Java anyway? Sure it's a little antiquated but it's mostly fine
 
it's got some ungodly momentum from way back when it was actually new
and it's just stuck around because now basic level curricula are built entirely on surface level understanding of oop concepts specifically as realized in java
 
6:59 AM
education systems loooove teaching outdated things
 
@graffe ᚦᚫᛏᛋ ᚪ ᛒᛁᛏ ᛈᚱᛖᛞᛄᚢᛞᛁᛋᛞ
 
for example i have a dbms class which teaches a 10 year old oracle sql dialect that nobody uses
 
phenomenal
 
@lyxal One thing that bothers me about Java is that it almost requires an IDE or specific editor tooling to develop with.
 
Side topic: the bus tracking app I have says my bus will get here in a minute. The smart bus stop here at the uni says it'll be here in 7 minutes. Which do y'all think it'll be?
 
7:01 AM
i haven't seen too much java at my uni but it's still very present
 
Getting java to compile and run from the console is an insane pain.
 
i mean. java is made for being used with a dev environment. There's not many better ways to use java
 
also java is the language of ap computer science a, forcing it down high schools' throats too
 
anywhere they teach java they teach you how to use an ide
even an ide as ungood as bluej
 
@lyxal they're probably both horribly wrong
but my bet's more on the app
 
7:03 AM
@Razetime Right. But as an educational tool and intro to programming, I think reliance on an IDE like that is detrimental.
 
Also, as an educational tool, I think the JVM is detrimental.
 
if you're going to learn your first programming language you ought to be able to learn it in a relative vacuum
 
i'm actually surprised that the million dollar department of defense programming language "Ada" did not make it into american education
 
And frankly, any compiled language that takes forever to compile/run isn't a good language for intro/education.
 
7:04 AM
i feel like at the level java's taught at the jvm has no impact at all but yeah
 
@lyxal buses never come at the time you expect
 
@AviFS Define "forever"
 
Go is the only compiled lang I know that I'd endorse for that. But it's made for fast compilation and has an interpreter.
 
write once suffer anywhere
 
Having the JVM start up on top of the compile time makes Java an even worse intro lang than most compiled langs.
 
7:05 AM
oh yeah that's
a problem
just fucking annihilates any sense of responsiveness
 
And it's just a lot of "black box" between the beginner/student and what's happening under the hood.
 
or worse, magic
 
Well, students don't need to know what's happening under the hood in order to learn programming
 
Not to mention class which has to perfectly match the file name, and all the boilerplate required to open main and print a single line. Hello world is 5 lines, and that's just too much magic, imo.
And encourages them to resign because "I'm just not gonna understand it all anyway"
 
Turns out it was the smart bus stop that was accurate
 
7:08 AM
yeah i feel like the real problem with java's boilerplate problem is that being exposed to it upfront and having to deal with it obscures the motivation of the design choices that led to it
 
On the first day of class, they should be able to leave and write their simple printing/helloworld programs. Without having to copy/paste all the main boilerplate or memorize a bunch of stuff that "I'm just not even gonna try to understand"
 
Kinda true
Pure script langs are great for that
 
And the IDE, and all its buttons and complexity for getting a single file to just run shouldn't get in the way of "hello world"
 
i feel like python is making headway as the introductory language for that sort of reason
 
7:10 AM
Python is already "the" introductory language
 
and where java steps in is when you go further
 
We used Eclipse, which is even worse than most, but programming felt like learning how to use Photoshop, but with an outdated UI from 2000.
@Bubbler I hope it becomes!
 
eclipse is quite fine (maybe i have stockholm syndrome)
 
i haven't used other ides to compare it with except actually no i think i have and just forgot
 
@Razetime Either way, you shouldn't have to be learning a complex interface to run a single file program. (A beginner/student, I mean.)
 
7:12 AM
CMQ: what do you consider the introductory esolang?
 
Brainfuck
And stack-based
 
@lyxal FALSE
 
i think when my friends were sporadically doing minecraft modding they got me onto a non-eclipse ide and i remember it actually being pretty good but that was on my old laptop and the only thing i've had to do java for since i got this one was a class that specifically needed me to use eclipse for the local tests
@lyxal definitely brainfuck
 
@lyxal Gol><>
 
I've just never used Java in any context where I reaped any of its benefits.
 
7:15 AM
introduce people to esolangs with flurry
 
/// is also up there, though not exactly something a neophyte would look at and think "yeah that sure is a programming language"
maybe intercal
 
I know it has them, but they've never been useful to me. However, I've definitely appreciated loads of nightmarish (for me) things about it, no matter how trivial the task is.
@UnrelatedString /// for sure!!
One of my faves, too.
I feel like whitespace/piet are interesting to non-esolangers because programs look so different than what they know to understand as code.
 
And they're not too conceptually tough, either.
 
7:18 AM
I thought you typo'd 7
 
@Bubbler Any thoughts so far on tabl/apl?
 
I couldn't open tabl on my work pc or phone for some reason
 
oh yeah speaking of ais langs underload might be up there
 
@Bubbler That's odd. How about now? Here's a demo.
And if you change a←4, you should see the other lines update.
 
huh whats this
aha looks fun
 
7:21 AM
and how do you execute a line? Does it expect APL expressions?
 
it seems to autoexecute on edit
 
It may be slow for you guys since you're sorta far from the US.
I wrote up a script to run it locally, if you'd like instructions.
@Bubbler Yeah, what Raze said. It updates as you type.
 
why is output constrained to 1 line
 
If running locally, or near the server, it updates instantly.
 
It does update something but all I see is <some expr I entered> _* _ _ _ _
 
7:23 AM
Oh, hahaha
I just changed the default lang to brainfuck
 
it's in bf mode
 
wtf
 
@AviFS I keep reading locally as ironically and I'm wondering why you want people to run it satirically
 
pff, imagine unironically running tabl
 
7:24 AM
Until I read it correctly and realise what you're actually saying
 
avifs pls make the output multiline
 
@lyxal I'm all for satire
@Razetime Noted!
 
Interesting interface
 
Yeah, the single-line constraint can get in the way with APL.
It would just be a fair bit of work to change that, and only beneficial to APL so far. No other langs need it.
 
@UnrelatedString tabl is what hipsters who drink lattes use for running code because it's "organic" and has "good vibes" unlike traditional IDEs
4
 
7:26 AM
But the idea is to display the full multiline output of the line you're currently on.
And have the ones below it be kinda dimmed, and the current one would show on top of it.
 
Very interesting :P
 
Then when you change lines, it'd retract into the single line form, and expand whatever you moved to.
 
I didn't know 3 3 3⍴3 3 3 has such a complex structure!
 
@Bubbler Is that... expected? If not, @DLosc reported screwy behavior when the websocket connection is slow.
Which happens if you're far from the server and not running locally, which I can help you guys set up.
 
The output is correct, modulo structure
 
7:28 AM
@Bubbler Oh, that's what it is?
 
Yes
 
Yeah, that's the multiline shrinkage function.
It may be easier to see there.
It's inserting one space, and then two spaces.
So it's:
 
0
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

DialFrostSandbox overflow code-golfstringascii-art Your task is to output a square sandbox of size n+2 with / characters in the corners and | for the sides, and - for the top and bottom, with n**2 layers of sand overflowing out of the sandbox of width n+2 Testcases 1 -> /-/ |.| /./ ... 2 -> /--/ |..| |.....

anyone?
 
2 2  2 2       2 2  2 2       2 2  2 2
@Bubbler @Razetime But you can also use functions and as you change the value of the functions, it'll update everywhere that the function is used.
And, in turn, you can use variables in that function. Then change one of the variables, and those lines will also get updated.
 
is that a dynamic update
or is the entire code run again
 
7:34 AM
Here's an example of that:
You can change n, or you can change f itself, and it'll re-run the relevant lines.
@Razetime It's dynamic, but my dynamic function could still be smarter. Anyone can feel free to help with the logic there.
It's super simple, I just haven't written up the docs yet.
 
just noticed that if you just hold down a key and it inputs faster than it can update it processes all of the updates in sequence with an accumulating lag
 
But, whichLines(lines: [int]) -> [int]
 
sort of funny visually
 
Which is a lang specific-function, so it's in script/langs/apl.js
You have a function which takes a list of the line numbers that were modified as input, and returns the list of line numbers that should be re-run. And you have access to the line values, as well.
As long as there's no assignment in the current line being modified, I only re-run that one line. So it can't get any better in that case. But if you're on a line with an assignment, I'm a fair bit stupider for now.
hasAssignment(code) is also pretty dumb for now, it's just code.includes('←') || code.includes('⎕EX')
 
@emanresuA uh... yes... lol
 
7:39 AM
But it's fine to run too many lines, you just don't want to run too few.
@UnrelatedString Welp. That's only because of your distance from the server.
For me, it's instantaneous and I don't get any lag at all.
 
Can't you just run all following lines?
 
it's really smooth normally but holding a key eventually gets lag to build up
 
I made the bash script user-friendly if anyone wants it.
 
You could also try using ngn/apl client-side?
 
Only thing is, as far as this lang is concerned, you'd have to download APL to have it running locally.
@emanresuA I absolutely must! And will.
Thanks. I'll add an issue right now.
Any others?
@Razetime wants me to prioritize multiline output.
So that's another one.
@emanresuA You can run all lines everytime. And that works. And Dyalog doesn't even take a noticeable hit (running on the server from where I am). But other interpreters aren't so fast.
I was surprised though that it could keep re-running a dozen lines as I quickly mashed the keyboard without seeing lag.
 
7:46 AM
I guess, yeah.
Is that why you temporarily removed Vyxal?
 
@emanresuA With running all following lines though, I also thought I could do that, but Adám found a bug.
 
Some sort of variable hoisting?
 
So I do a bit more in the case of assignments for APL and other similar langs because of:
a = 3
a += 1
a
As you play around with the second line, it keeps adding to a.
 
oic
 
So you'd expect a to be 4, but it could be way higher from continuously running line 2.
@Adám Speak of the devil!
So you have to also re-run the line where a variable was initialized, and then any other lines where it was modified above your current line.
 
7:49 AM
@AviFS I told you so.
 
@AviFS @Adám I credited you!
Wait, wrong link.
But I fixed that by now, although it's still not as smart as it can be.
The important thing is that when you don't have or ⎕EX in the current line, it only reruns that one line.
So that's a huge speed-boost for 90% of typing, which is gonna be on non-assignment lines.
I'm not too worried about the assignment case not being smarter for now, but it's not rerunning all lines even then so it's a little smart. And it does catch your bug.
 
@graffe So is traditional mathematics.
 
@Adám Runes maybe, but not hieroglyphics :p
 
BQN actually looks more like runes than APL.
 
8:06 AM
it is tempting to make a cuneiform apl and compare it to APL and BQN
 
@Razetime Cuneiform also went through my head!
Who's to say APL isn't the cuneiform, though :p
 
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuneiform_(Unicode_block) there is an entire block ready for array language exploitation
 
@AviFS Lots of other things can affect values.
 
@Razetime Good luck finding fonts that work with those...
 
Maybe it's the heiroglyphics we need to complete the coll-- Celtic runes would be cool, I think. Or one of those new writing systems associated with the Sub-Saharan languages. Or some native system. Lots of inspiration out there, I guess...
 
8:09 AM
@pxeger i will check freefont
and then i will give up
 
@pxeger I remember reading about some of these new writing systems though that I think have fonts and a movement to spread/digitalize them.
I think Adlam is a lang I read about. It has font-stuff even though it was only developed in the '80s by a pair of brothers.
But, it's heiroglyph-y than I remembered :p That one could just be Thai or something.
@Razetime Damn. I didn't remember that cuneiform symbols were at Chinese levels of complexity!
That doesn't look very APL-friendly either.
@Adám I'll have an always-run-all-lines switch in the UI, once I add the settings menu.
 
Canadian syllabic writing, or simply syllabics, is a family of writing systems used in a number of indigenous Canadian languages of the Algonquian, Inuit, and (formerly) Athabaskan language families. These languages had no formal writing system previously. They are valued for their distinctiveness from the Latin script and for the ease with which literacy can be achieved; indeed, by the late 19th century the Cree had achieved what may have been one of the highest rates of literacy in the world.Syllabics are abugidas, where glyphs represent consonant-vowel pairs. They derive from the work of James...
 
@Adám Ooh, that one I can see being repurposed for something esolangy!
 
@AviFS dzaima/APL already uses and from that block.
 
Is there another big language that has an alphabet that looks like that? I don't know that many scripts, but a lot of these look just like Thai to me.
Are there any other established languages that have this look?
 
8:22 AM
0
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Kevin CruijssenHow many times do I break my own rule? Tags: code-golfword-searchgridstringnumber Introduction: In my recent Strikethrough the Word Search List challenge I mentioned the following: When I do the word-search puzzles, I (almost) always go over the words in order, and strike them through one by one...

0
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

DialFrostSpaceship shooter Your task is to output a spaceship of size n with n shooters and n bullets Testcases 1 -> # ## - # 2 -> ### - - ## ### - - Trailing spaces are allowed This is code-golf, so shortest code wins! In progress currently

 
APL: ⊃∇2=⍳⍴∆⌈⍵
CAS: ᑐᐁᒿ᐀ᘂᑭᐃᒥᗯ
@AviFS Have you looked at the dentistry range?
 
Time to make a symbol-only esolang full of diacritic usage
 
a⃝ is cursed
 
 
1 hour later…
9:56 AM
@Bubbler Any fonts where this actually works?
 
It seems to work with the font chat uses on my laptop
Try running something like 'a\u20dd' in the JS console
 
10:31 AM
CMQ: Is there a way to do modulo with addition/subtraction/floor division/multiplication/arbitrary constants/exponentiation?
Okay, I've come up with an incredibly convoluted way: Check if str(a/2)[-2] is a dot.
 
10:49 AM
@Bubbler hey that's my idea
Feb 11 at 12:24, by Ginger Industries
there is no escape, only golf
 
11:08 AM
>:( my package is supposed to arrive on Monday at 9:00pm even though it's only like 5 miles from me
 
11:29 AM
@emanresuA a % b == a - a / b * b (in Python 2 at least)
 
11:52 AM
@emanresuA I get a⃝
 
12:08 PM
@emanresuA a / b - a // b
where // is integer division (floor division)
 
₌/ḭ- if you're Vyxaling
 
whyxal
 
@emanresuA a×b⁻¹−⌊⍺×b⁻¹⌋
 
@lyxal from YAML copiloted to return the length of an input
 
@Neil That uses non-floor division.
 
12:11 PM
@lyxal because the length of 9534 is totally 9
and it says that the length of 1111122 is 11
 
@AviFS why?
 
@emanresuA a-b×⌊a÷b⌋
 
@AviFS i wanted to practice making a compiler. also speed
 
I really don’t see what’s so bad about java, and kotlin is definitely much better
 
@Adám not in Python 2, as I said
 
12:16 PM
Plus, jyxal has the jvm, which gives you decent speed across pretty much all platforms
 
@Neil Oh. I meant that to be a reply to @Seggan
Sorry.
 
np
 
oh hey I completed my step goal for the day
nice
done with 36 minutes to spare
 
12:50 PM
im modding an existing bitmap font lol
 
@lyxal you've done what?
 
that happens when I go to uni for the day
I manage to hit 6k steps as prescribed by samsung
 
nice
 
@Adám oops. misread the specs
@user 100% agree. the jvm is what really shines
i dont see what yall mean about java being hard to compile
$ javac Main.java
$ java Main
C, for example, is much more complicated to compile
 
1:07 PM
I'm sorry what?
TIL I'm in the urbdic
3 whole months and this is the first time I'm seeing this
 
@lyxal but it's factually correct
 
well if that's the case I'm going for the night - I think either I've been subliminally tired all day or the matrix is finally starting to glitch uncontrollably.
3
o/ hopefully sleep turns the world off and on again
 
@Seggan imean:
$ gcc main.c
$ ./a.out
@lyxal o/
 
o/
 
1:24 PM
hey look a capacitor
 
18
Q: Randomly Rounding

tshInput a decimal number and round it to an integer, randomly rounding up or down with a probability based on its fractional part, so the expected value of the output equals to the input value. If input \$x\$ is an integer, the program should output it as is. If \$x\$ is not an integer, the progra...

 
2:07 PM
@lyxal a user named lyxal added it
and that person
is the real sussy impostor
 
2:50 PM
 
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