The Nineteenth Byte

A username

00:00

"who up"?

Fun fact: the inverse of that (e.g. 2184 -> 16) is only 2 bytes more in Jelly and aside from those 2 bytes, the programs are identical

hyper-neutrino

what's your target

oh nvm you commented it

15b? same :P

how similar are they @cairdcoinheringaahing

caird coinheringaahing

Surprisingly different

hyper-neutrino

h u h

caird coinheringaahing

What I had (first line, second line is the inverse function)

Oh, I have 14 bytes now :P

hyper-neutrino

00:07

:pensive:

caird coinheringaahing

Your Ị is unnecessary

hyper-neutrino

oh. yeah lol

caird coinheringaahing

Because the only way that Ḅ can map [x, y] to 3 is if [x, y] = [1, 1] or if [x, y] = [0, 3], and g can never produce 0

hyper-neutrino

good point :D

caird coinheringaahing

So we both have a 4 byte way of testing that [1,1] isn't an element (iØ1¬ vs Ḅ3e¬) :P

A username

00:11

I just went (a+b) == 2

No grouping needed

Answer coming soon

(I mean, Arnauld/tsh will beat it easily but whatever

caird coinheringaahing

13 bytes (@hyper-neutrino)

hyper-neutrino

§_2Ạ works too lol, stealing a username's idea

@cairdcoinheringaahing ah you figured out how to collapse it into one link? very nice

caird coinheringaahing

12 bytes (@hyper-neutrino)

hyper-neutrino

ah clever

idk how i didn't see that

i was doing "sum each, -2, product/all"

but -2 from the sum of a pair is just sum of -1 of each ಠ_ಠ

caird coinheringaahing

:P

hyper-neutrino

00:20

rip my explanation

also this is a perfect example of "jelly is only interesting with clever dyad chaining"

i'm gonna steal the 3-byte check from your version and keep my chaining lol

caird coinheringaahing

Oh yeah, this entire thing is a very elegant dyadic chain :P

ð+¥ what is this abomination

:P

hyper-neutrino

lol

ok but finally an excellent use of 2,2,2 :p

caird coinheringaahing

I do love a good use of 2,2,2 :P

2,2,2 and 2,2 produce the most interesting chains

hyper-neutrino

yeah

although a lot of 2,2 is actually 2,1} and I feel like aF}¥ is common enough i might just make that into a combinator in yuno

caird coinheringaahing

Appending 2ɓ to any of these ð1# approaches gives the inverse function :P

hyper-neutrino

00:26

oh lol

Underslash

00:48

@NewPosts isnt it a bit counter intuitive to do codegolf but then offer a bounty for the fastest code?

caird coinheringaahing

@Underslash I dislike restricted answers, and I don't want to have to run a fastest-code, but I'm still interested in approaches that are more interesting than brute force

Underslash

fair enough

would I be in the wrong to submit a non-codegolfed answer that is fast?

caird coinheringaahing

Yes, but you'd be fine to submit a fast answer that shows some basic golfing

Remove whitespace, shorten variable names, etc.

Underslash

yeah, basically optimize, then minify

A username

@Underslash But show the unminified code as well.

Underslash

00:51

yeah of course

it wouldnt be any help to say: heres 500 bytes of rust, gl figuring it out

caird coinheringaahing

@Underslash Yeah, that's fine. I'd expect answers for the bounty to either be that, or a properly golfed inefficient answer that includes a fast answer as well

Underslash

I also have doubts that any answer would be able to beat the oeis sequence, since the available runtime is only 1 min

but thats just extra incentive :)

caird coinheringaahing

There's a reason it's 500 rep :P

Underslash

would I be able to make a general "extend oeis" type challenge, where answers to the post would be non-trivial extensions of any oeis sequence?

caird coinheringaahing

The problem with general OEIS sequence challenges is that there are so many trivial sequences

A username

00:55

What is the time complexity of this?

Underslash

@cairdcoinheringaahing sure, but for those any extensions would be trivial, so they would need to be restricted

so maybe only for sequences where the amount of numbers was restricted not by trying to make the page under a gigabyte, but more that the sequence was only able to be calculated to that value at that point

caird coinheringaahing

@Underslash I think the only way that could work is by restricting the sequences (for example, ones that only have 9 or fewer listed elements)

Underslash

@cairdcoinheringaahing should I throw together a quick sandbox post so I can get the idea down?

caird coinheringaahing

Can't hurt

OldSandboxPosts

Sandbox posts last active a week ago: Largest number with no repeating substrings of length \$l\$, Convert codepoint to UTF-9

Underslash

01:00

right on time lol

caird coinheringaahing

01:17

Got to love it when synonyms make the tag wiki weird :/

hyper-neutrino

:/

DLosc

01:45

25% of my bookmarked questions have been closed as off-topic :/

A username

Aka 1 of 4?

DLosc

Specifically, 3/12.

Two popularity-contest and a multiple-holes where the tasks were deemed insufficiently interconnected.

A username

When you see a challenge, whip up an answer and find that someone's already done it

lyxal

@Ausername what did you have?

A username

Exactly what you had.

lyxal

01:50

Lol

A username

Great minds think alike

DLosc

@Ausername You know it's an old challenge when the accepted answer didn't even remove all the whitespace 0_o

A username

Wait didn't I add k/ in May?

lyxal

@Ausername maybe

But I do remember there were some accidental overlaps

A username

Because it wasn't there when I started spamming ascii-art...

Maybe you forgot to implement/document it.

lyxal

01:53

Probably

Also, I'm up to 469k views. Nice

A username

Nice

I just realised I don't have to copy your dictionary for Jyxal - I can just steal it from the internet!

lyxal

You mean just make a get request?

A username

Ye

caird coinheringaahing

just query the entire internet and compile a complete dictionary :P

lyxal

Nah, use GPT-3 like a real gamer :p

Speaking of real gamers, my uni makes us do course feedback surveys, and I said that one of my workshop leaders was "an epic gamer" in my response

A username

02:06

@lyxal Nice

hyper-neutrino

02:17

bruh

A username

@lyxal Can we have a quad palindromise (mvm and ømvøm)?

lyxal

@Ausername sure

I'll probably bring some of the things I find cool from the E branch as digraphs

That'll be for next time I'm at my computer

A username

Ok

Or I can implement

What digraphs would it be?

caird coinheringaahing

@hyper-neutrino Thoughts on graduating this to faq?

A username

Seems like a good idea

We're pretty unique as a site in that 70%ish of the questions are from high-rep users - On Q&A sites, the more experienced you are, the less questions you post.

Sandbox Posts

02:30

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Extend the OEIS On the OEIS, there are a significant amount of sequences which do not have proper continuations to them, in other words, the length of the sequence was cut short by the methods at that point. An example of this is the sequence in this post before it was extended by this answer. A ...

Underslash

any feedback on this is appreciated

A username

Looks pretty good, but ask the others.

wasif

hi everyone

@Ausername food and butt lol

A username

What do you mean? ;)

wasif

spelling errors are often interesting :P

lyxal

02:36

@Ausername gist.github.com/Lyxal/4e377ca7f63d350611dbbd16846a1b1b

Stuff on there that isn't already implemented

wasif

@lyxal wow thats a huge list

lyxal

@wasif I made it as a guideline for choosing E branch commands

Hence why it's long

wasif

matrix operations are often useful

lyxal

Correct

Hence why I want them as features in the E branch :p

wasif

what did you thought about graphics features

using turtle module

A username

02:39

Or svg output for the web?

wasif

plus some web scraping diagraphs (I can help regarding these)

oh did you include LCM??

lyxal

@wasif for a long time I've considered: a) canvas commands, b) ways to create HTML output, c) turtle graphics/tkinter and d) classes

@wasif probably not.

wasif

uhhh what? classes??

lyxal

Yes classes

Oop

caird coinheringaahing

@lyxal You want to make an OOP golfing lang?

lyxal

02:42

@cairdcoinheringaahing I've always wanted to

wasif

how will oop be useful

lyxal

And I've always had a plan to extend vyxal to do so

@wasif honestly idk, which is why it'd be done with digraphs

caird coinheringaahing

This seems like something that trigraphs should be used for :P

lyxal

I've just never gotten around to figuring out the best way to transpile classes as well as a nice enough syntax

caird coinheringaahing

Use Python's type style syntax

wasif

02:44

have you decided on the oop syntax

caird coinheringaahing

Given that type is literally how to dynamically make classes in Python

lyxal

@wasif not really

wasif

If you are adding classes I also recommend to add WSGI web frameworks

its pretty easy ruslanspivak.com/lsbaws-part2

vyxal supports functions

so functions can get the WSGI variables and do things on them and return the header and response

@lyxal ^

lyxal

So you mean one could make a web server with vyxal?

wasif

yes

after reading that guide doing all these seems very easy

A username

02:54

A way to use python modules maybe? You'd need a wrapper for calling these though..

.,

wasif

@Ausername we have python exec

A username

03:05

Yeah but that's expensive

caird coinheringaahing

VTC y'all

AviFS

That was fast!

hyper-neutrino

@cairdcoinheringaahing I agree with that - seemingly no objectives, so if anyone has any reasons to oppose this becoming faq, speak now

AviFS

Did they delete it, or did you?

hyper-neutrino

I closed and instantly deleted it

not really spam so I don't want to mark it, but it's not worth keeping around

AviFS

03:11

Ouch.

They were a first time contributor, though

hyper-neutrino

this looks like a spam seed

@AviFS so? every spam account is - this doesn't seem to be spam, but ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

AviFS

Wasn't it worth just closing and leaving a friendly comment to say they were probably looking for SO?

caird coinheringaahing

@AviFS That only means something if they actually contribute

AviFS

That's what I was doign

caird coinheringaahing

> I’m voting to close this question because it has nothing to do with our site scope and is off-topic for all of Stack Exchange. Additionally, I am deleting this post because it is extremely low quality and borderline spam and has no redeemable qualities. – hyper-neutrino♦ 1 min ago

AviFS

03:12

Then we could delete it after we gave them feedback

hyper-neutrino

this does NOT belong on SO

AviFS

But it's clear they were looking for SO

caird coinheringaahing

This doesn't belong on the network

hyper-neutrino

I can confidently say this doesn't belong anywhere on SE

AviFS

It would've been for SO mods to help shape it up

caird coinheringaahing

03:13

No

hyper-neutrino

no, it isn't

A username

Screenshot?

AviFS

Oh, well it seemed that way to me

hyper-neutrino

the community can shape up questions that are a bit unclear or need some work - this is irredeemable

caird coinheringaahing

There's "trying but failing" and then there's "not trying at all". This was the latter

A username

03:14

Ok

hyper-neutrino

also, mods are not really responsible for shaping up questions, TBH - that's something I do as a community member, not as a mod task

A username

I was Vyxaling while all this was happening.

AviFS

Still feel like you guys could've said something before deleting it, haha

hyper-neutrino

I did

you can read comments on deleted posts

AviFS

Oh...

I see

hyper-neutrino

03:14

and again, you can see your own deleted posts

caird coinheringaahing

We close questions that should (or even shouldn't but could) be on SO and redirect the users (for whatever good it serves). For questions that just don't belong here, there's no point directing them anywhere

hyper-neutrino

and you get inbox notifications for comments on deleted posts

AviFS

Wait, did you actually say this to them?

> I’m voting to close this question because it has nothing to do with our site scope and is off-topic for all of Stack Exchange. Additionally, I am deleting this post because it is extremely low quality and borderline spam and has no redeemable qualities. – hyper-neutrino♦ 1 min ago

hyper-neutrino

yeah

caird coinheringaahing

Yes

AviFS

03:15

Tough love, lmao

hyper-neutrino

hell, makyen or someone else would probably murder me if I redirected this to SO

caird coinheringaahing

That's why I copy-pasted it here, because you couldn't see it

hyper-neutrino

@AviFS minus the love part if we're being honest about it

AviFS

ouch, hahaha

hyper-neutrino

idk why i said "i'm voting to close"

oh wait it's the default template isn't it

AviFS

03:16

@hyper-neutrino lol

@hyper-neutrino I mean, I don't remember it exactly

But it seemed like a low-quality plead for coding help

wasif

where can we get the default templates for closing or other things

AviFS

Which belongs on SO, minus the low-quality part

caird coinheringaahing

We get a decent amount of spam/VLQ for an SE site. We could get more, but we get more than most sites tbh. When you've VTCed/VTDed/flagged literally hundreds of these style posts, you stop caring about "being nice", because the OP clearly doesn't care. If they don't even take the time to read anything on the site, why should I take the time to do anything other than remove their shitty content?

AviFS

True, I just feel like closing at least allows a dialogue to continue in the comments

hyper-neutrino

posted a screenshot in the bakery if anyone really cares

AviFS

03:18

(yes, I know comments aren't for dialogue)

caird coinheringaahing

I think most of y'all will agree that I'm a pretty welcoming user, but there's a point at which it's not even worth it

@AviFS We generally don't insta-delete posts that might be on-topic elsewhere

AviFS

I def agree you guys are extra nice, which is why I was a bit surprised

hyper-neutrino

caird is one of the most welcoming users on our site IMO - i frequently see their comments (among others; redwolf's another prominent one) welcoming users who attempt to contribute positively and pointing them to our site's resources

AviFS

If they really are lazy bums, then they won't answer in the comments anyway, or be curious how to fix it, where it belongs, or what our site is about

And then I'd say delete it, after 15 mins or so

But I think I'd personally give them a chance to get their bearings

Then again, I'm not working at this 24/7 like you guys

caird coinheringaahing

I suppose HN maybe jumped the gun a bit, but I don't really see a big issue with deleting this quickly

AviFS

03:20

So thanks for everything you do and your unending patience as is, minus where it ends :p

caird coinheringaahing

In an ideal world, we'd close it and then delete it in a bit, but ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I doubt it'll make much impact to the user in the end

hyper-neutrino

technically speaking, I acted out excessively because closing off-topic stuff is a community task and deleting garbage that has no place here is a community task

caird coinheringaahing

Also:

> How to auto bet on luckyfish.io without internet?

Isn't luckyfish.io a website?

hyper-neutrino

LOL

caird coinheringaahing

"How do I post on Stack Overflow without internet?" :P

hyper-neutrino

03:22

after i closed and deleted it they edited to add the code-golf tag and change "offline" to "without internet"

??????

caird coinheringaahing

Wait, how did they edit it?

hyper-neutrino

you can edit deleted things can't you?

caird coinheringaahing

Not questions

hyper-neutrino

... weird

well, apparently you can? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ unless it's caching somehow

caird coinheringaahing

They must have had the edit window open before you deleted it, then submitted after

wasif

03:23

@cairdcoinheringaahing relevant: stackoverflow.com/questions/718582/…

one client asked how to do google search offline

caird coinheringaahing

37

A: What's the funniest user request you've ever had?

"The calendars are really difficult to use, since there is a different number of days in each month. Could you please change them to have the same number of days?"

...wha

hyper-neutrino

bruh

wasif

lol

caird coinheringaahing

ngl, I'm tempted to flag that question to be removed, but I do like the off-topic old SO questions :P

hyper-neutrino

wait you can flag it?

wasif

03:26

if you delete though i will be able to see it

10k power

hyper-neutrino

also it's locked. i don't think you can flag those

caird coinheringaahing

@hyper-neutrino No, I don;t think I can

hyper-neutrino

i didn't see any option other than share

wasif

@hyper-neutrino no i said if caird flags the question then it gets deleted i will be able to see it

caird coinheringaahing

Time to ping the SO mods and get them to delete it :P

hyper-neutrino

03:29

lol

wasif

but you can't flag locked question which is good news

caird coinheringaahing

Depends on the lock

hyper-neutrino

@wasif i was confused cuz this suggests you can see the flag itself

and 10k to see flags is a chat privilege and seeing flags is only a ⋄ thing :P

caird coinheringaahing

@hyper-neutrino That's what SEDE is for :P

hyper-neutrino

lol

A username

03:37

I have officially gone through all 23 pages of ascii-art and completed a lot of them.

Like ~1/5.

That's about 200.

wasif

thats too much

you should take rest now

caird coinheringaahing

@Ausername You've posted 113 ascii-art answers

A username

Nah

@cairdcoinheringaahing Wow I'm bad at counting/estimating

wasif

113 is big too lol

A username

But you're right I should take a break

This is a bug

My code is getting interpreted as MathJax

wasif

03:42

@Ausername insane

280 bytes

which answer

A username

This

I spent ~2 hours on that for no good reason

And I really can't be bothered trying to golf it.

wasif

I thought first it was a huge compressed string but later saw...

hyper-neutrino

no-repro on my end

caird coinheringaahing

Is this in search?

Wait yeah, what is that view?

A username

In search yes

Here

wasif

03:46

why not will it appear in search

caird coinheringaahing

status-reproduced

A username

Hm

hyper-neutrino

oh search. yeah

caird coinheringaahing

Also status-reproduced on Math.Meta.SE, and on MSE

Razetime

04:37

morning

AviFS

05:16

morning @Razetime

AviFS

05:32

@Razetime I noticed a bug/feature on the venerable APLGolf

Razetime

go ahead

put it on the repo

AviFS

The footer seems to be condensed into one line

lyxal

Here's how low my standards of entertainment are: at a nearby shopping centre, there's a glass elevator that serves 3 floors. I enjoy standing on the middle floor and trying to predict who will get off which floor.

AviFS

Specifically, if one of the lines in the footer ends with a comment, none of the lines below it seem to be executed

(Sorry, lost wifi)

Razetime

@AviFS ah makes sense

AviFS

05:46

Is that on purpose, or to be changed?

Feature or bug?

Razetime

06:12

it's a bug alright

I should just remove commented areas before joining all the lines together

hyper-neutrino

ah, i was running into a similar issue with the APL SE chat bot xD

Razetime

@AviFS this should be a problem in any of the code areas

I'll fix it now

@AviFS does it also happen on the Try It Online! runner?

I hope it doesn't, cause that would me a different problem

hyper-neutrino

does it just concatenate all of the statements with ⋄ and then just run the whole thing?

Razetime

yeah pretty much

hyper-neutrino

ah. yeah that's what i was doing with my bot until adam tested that exact thing and broke it xD

Razetime

06:23

I think the tryAPL API only allows single lines

hyper-neutrino

i believe so too but i haven't tried otherwise

Redwolf Programs

sup tnbeople

hyper-neutrino

fortunately preparsing and removing the comment blocks yourself is very easy

Razetime

TIO allows newlines but needs a bunch of other annoying things like zlib and whatnot

hey redwolf

hyper-neutrino

ah

yeah idk how to use TIO endpoints as an api or w/e

Redwolf Programs

06:24

Planning to start on an online interpreter when I get home. Any name suggestions?

I like RTO but it's taken :/

pxeger

how about you help me with mine then :þ

Redwolf Programs

I think ATO was a good name for yours tbh

pxeger

I can smell the jealousy lmao

you can have RTO if you want

Razetime

wow there are now three tio-like online interpreters now

Redwolf Programs

I'm planning on having some way to link your account to CGCC (or CGCD), and taking advantage of the existing rep systems for certain privileges like increased run time or voting on new languages to add

pxeger

06:27

hmm that sounds like a good idea

Razetime

Redwolf Programs

Also I'll have a way to make shortened links, where instead of an encoded form of the program the link just contains a short code that the server maps to the program

hyper-neutrino

:thinking:

pxeger

@RedwolfPrograms I had partially implemented this for ATO, but I thought people wouldn't like it because of privacy concerns (and they can always use another URL shortener like bit.ly anyway)

hyper-neutrino

@RedwolfPrograms just be warned that that requires scaling memory and if you accidentally do something bad and lose that mapping everyone who uses your interpreter is screwed lol

Razetime

06:29

@AviFS the bug should be fixed now

pxeger

@hyper-neutrino @RedwolfPrograms yes that was my other concern

hyper-neutrino

cuz as long as you never screw with encoding/decoding, permalinks are, well, permanent

you don't have to store anything and thus worry about losing it

Redwolf Programs

I'll have an option for those too

pxeger

especially given how I currently deploy ATO, it would require a bit of a rethink of the infrastructure to add a database

hyper-neutrino

i guess you could add a temp link option just for people who are trying to paste a long program link into chat to avoid the cap

Redwolf Programs

06:32

I think the convenience will definitely be worth the added work during implementation

And I've definitely figured out to be careful about backing things up, given my uh...experience in the field

:p

pxeger

the other use is for long programs in comments, but I have my own personal URL shortener[s] for that

Redwolf Programs

I like having it as an option without URL shorteners, since it's much more trustworthy to see https://online.interpreter.you.trust/i/69420 not https://bit.ly/28980

pxeger

yeah, true I guess

AviFS

06:49

@Razetime Nice!

Speaking of online interpreters, does anyone know how TIO encodes the programs into the link?

Something to do with base64...

If we can find the code in here, that'd be a start

pxeger

@AviFS github.com/TryItOnline/tryitonline/blob/master/usr/share/…

AviFS

07:04

Hmmm... I see, I think

...

Has anyone been able to repurpose that to use in their own sites?

Redwolf Programs

I was considering adding compatibility to mine

AviFS

Have you worked with it, redwolf?

Redwolf Programs

No. I probably won't add compatibility for it though on second thought, since TIO's frontend works differently and a custom solution would be more efficient

AviFS

Darn!

Redwolf Programs

Why do you ask?

AviFS

07:09

Trying to write something (a surprise for now) that will hook up to TIO

Well, just a link to the TIO thing that can run it

@Razetime You must've for APLGolf, right?

Redwolf Programs

I was working on another project that would have needed TIO compatible links, I can try to reverse engineer it if you want since it'd help both of us :p

AviFS

Except your permalink looks different from TIO's, so maybe you're just using an API to run it, without encoding it the same way?

@RedwolfPrograms Ooh, yeah, that'd be great!

Shall I make a chatroom for it?

Redwolf Programs

Sure, go ahead

AviFS

Parsing TIO

New Posts

0

Q: Draw a mountain given altitude

Take an array of nonnegative integers, such as [1, 0, 0, 1, 2, 4, 2, 0]. Then, draw that as a mountain where the integers represent altitude: x x x x x xx x You may use any printable non-whitespace character in place of x, and adding padding or whitespace after line...

Razetime

07:38

@ngn do you have a mirror for your lisp interpreter which was previously hosted here?

wasif

07:48

hi everyone

@NewPosts 3 answers in almost same time is a bit sus

lyxal

08:00

@NewPosts woooo finally a chance to use my questionable built-ins!

felipa

@ngn How about a K answer?

wasif

08:15

@lyxal never knew about those builtins

looks like i just use one third of the codepage

math

08:32

I posted a sandbox post recently, and I first thought to make it Code Golf. But now I think the question is better for creative answers than golfing, so do you know a better tag than pop-con? If there are no better ones, I think I'm making it pop-con.

Hi?

Razetime

@felipa looks like a product usage

Razetime

08:48

hm i'm not sure how to get a cartesian product in ngn's K

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