The Nineteenth Byte

7:02 PM

okay. yeah i don't think most solutions will go about this any differently but it allows some more unconventional and interesting sols

also, restricting to 1-9 seems to have made my test case generator spit out a lot more cases :p

caird coinheringaahing

I went for a dupe search, and none of my methods found anything, so I think you're clear

pxeger

@cairdcoinheringaahing there are a couple related ones about ordered partitions, but none that I could see about sums

hyper-neutrino

Anything in the Jelly corpus for LÐṀ? :P

nvm that would probably give too many results

caird coinheringaahing

10 results

Unrelated String

it definitely does feel like a 10 result kind of thing

caird coinheringaahing

7:09 PM

None of which contain either S, §, E or = (which is kinda wild, but ¯\_(ツ)_/¯) which are all very likely to be in an answer to this

hyper-neutrino

huh, interesting. alright, thanks :p

caird coinheringaahing

The corpus is a surprisingly powerful dupe checker tbh. So long as a challenge has a Jelly answer that isn't completely out of left field, its likely to catch it (with some fine tuning)

hyper-neutrino

i should make a language designed not for golfing but specifically converting a challenge task into basically a formal algorithm so it can be used to identify duplicate and related challenges :P

caird coinheringaahing

I just need to make sure I regularly update the database (did it yesterday for the first time in a month) and can write a sample submission to the sandboxed challenge :P

New Posts

0

Q: Split a list into maximal equal-sum sections

Task Given a non-empty list of positive digits, group them into sublists of equal sum. You may output any subset of solutions with maximal number of sublists (equivalently, minimal sum). The input may contain repeat elements. There may not exist any solution but the singleton list containing the ...

hyper-neutrino

7:13 PM

uh, roomba forecaster, are you sure about that?

caird coinheringaahing

I get "Roomba No down-vote question will roomba (30-day)"

hyper-neutrino

maybe it's just cuz i posted it and so forecaster couldn't find the question from the API since it didn't exist yet so it just assumed it was already gone?

how do you strike through in comments?

caird coinheringaahing

You don't

user

f̶o̶o̶b̶a̶r̶ ̶f̶i̶a̶o̶j̶s̶d̶f̶8̶2̶4̶w̶

hyper-neutrino

oh :c

i tried

user

7:17 PM

From here

@hyper-neutrino Is it for testing or what?

hyper-neutrino

no i wanted to strikethrough and i couldn't figure out how

user

No I meant the repcap

hyper-neutrino

oh

no i just want badge progress

user

lol

caird coinheringaahing

HN is 98% Epic :P

Redwolf Programs

7:20 PM

CMQ: What is your ratio of upvotes_cast * 10 - downvotes_cast * 2 to your reputation? Mine's about 1.69 (nice).

user

~3.65 (rounded up)

Apparently I'm a pretty liberal upvoter

hyper-neutrino

wait like rep divided-by (UV*10-DV*2) ?

user

I did it the other way around

Redwolf Programs

Other way around

hyper-neutrino

0.784 (rounded down)

user

7:23 PM

Boo

hyper-neutrino

do keep in mind that i don't own any votes from the first two years of my presence on this site

Redwolf Programs

@hyper-neutrino Your user ID (68942) feels like it's just close enough to 69420 to mess with me

hyper-neutrino

during which time i gained 5.8k reputation

@RedwolfPrograms i was very sad to discover when i was so close to yet so far from greatness

my old ID was 42649

user

Still gonna boo you because you're a bot :P

@hyper-neutrino So close, yet so far

hyper-neutrino

@user you have no proof

Redwolf Programs

7:24 PM

Both match (6.9|42){2}

user

May 12 at 18:50, by hyper-neutrino

@RedwolfPrograms there are at least two other instances of the hyper-neutrino AI that exist, being my chat bot and my testing sock

caird coinheringaahing

@RedwolfPrograms Most of my downvotes are on deleted posts, but 1.29 here

user

> other instances of the hyper-neutrino AI

Redwolf Programs

hyper-neutrino is just Tim's canadian friend typing the results of the AI into a computer, no bots involved

hyper-neutrino

just because I am artificial doesn't mean I'm a bot

caird coinheringaahing

7:26 PM

Most of my "existing" downvotes are on closed questions so that I can get them to the VTD threshold :P

hyper-neutrino

vOtE aBuSe

user

@RedwolfPrograms I wasn't talking to Tim's friend, I was communicating with the AI holding the human hostage

hyper-neutrino

CMQ how many deletion votes have you cast

Redwolf Programs

Where do I check?

caird coinheringaahing

368

user

7:27 PM

14 (all on my own posts, obviously)

caird coinheringaahing

@RedwolfPrograms codegolf.stackexchange.com/users/…

hyper-neutrino

@cairdcoinheringaahing oh wow, that's surprisingly close to mine

user

codegolf.stackexchange.com/users/current/…

Redwolf Programs

12 for me

hyper-neutrino

i have 425

caird coinheringaahing

7:28 PM

How about undelete votes? :P

user

Undelete 5 :P

Redwolf Programs

Only one of mine was on something other than my own post

caird coinheringaahing

54 undelete here, most of which are on mine I believe

Redwolf Programs

Two undelete, both on my own

hyper-neutrino

@user that would not help

60 undelete votes

user

7:28 PM

@hyper-neutrino It would help atone for your sins

CMP: Closure to reopen vote ratio?

caird coinheringaahing

But once you've cast the vote, you can't uncast it, even if the post is undeleted

603:69

hyper-neutrino

wait, but just like how downvotes on deleted posts don't show up on your profile

Redwolf Programs

@cairdcoinheringaahing nice

hyper-neutrino

if I delete the post my deletion vote will go away :galaxybrain:

Redwolf Programs

154:33 here

pxeger

7:29 PM

@cairdcoinheringaahing I would like to have access to this corpus (and ideally some other corpora for other languages, both esoteric and practical). Is your code public?

hyper-neutrino

@user 225:33

caird coinheringaahing

@pxeger Kinda, I've opened a couple of issues using the corpus to suggest language golfing tips. Lemme just find it

user

@user 23:5

hyper-neutrino

mfw caird has well over double my closure-related activity

pxeger

@hyper-neutrino with no context these look like Bible verses

user

7:31 PM

> And then the creator of JS said, "Let there be pain." - TNB transcript, 19:-1

2

hyper-neutrino

@pxeger the book of Golf, 69:420 - And then Lyxal said, "Never gonna give you up."

8

caird coinheringaahing

@pxeger This is my corpus used to find the most common digraphs, trigraphs and quadgraphs in Husk (based on Lynn's, in the linked Jelly issue). My dupe searcher code isn't public

CMQ: Of all your reopen votes, what percentage are on currently-open questions (i.e. how "successful" are you)? Mine is 66.6%

Redwolf Programs

Somehow it's 69.696969...%

caird coinheringaahing

@cairdcoinheringaahing There's also been an 05AB1E corpus and a Vyxal corpus run, based on that code, but not by me

@hyper-neutrino What's your percentage from before Sep '20?

hyper-neutrino

(make sure you ctrl-f for "duplicate" too)

Redwolf Programs

7:40 PM

I just got an idea for a KotH

It's a good one too

A really good one

hyper-neutrino

ah hold on

my numbers are totally wrong

caird coinheringaahing

@hyper-neutrino I don't think I've actually mjolnir'd a question open tbh

Redwolf Programs

23 / 33 is the world's best fraction, prove me wrong.

hyper-neutrino

78.78% now, 71.42% before becoming a mod

i wonder how many times i've used a regular mjonlir before gaining the (whatever hammer is more powerful)

user

@cairdcoinheringaahing That's because you're not worthy

@hyper-neutrino By regular mjolnir, do ypu mean a gold tag badge ?

hyper-neutrino

7:44 PM

yes

caird coinheringaahing

@hyper-neutrino Thor's axe hammer thing is stormbreaker right? Lets call it that :P

hyper-neutrino

but it's not really a hammer :P

user

It's better than a hammer (here's a :P just because) :P

caird coinheringaahing

No, it's better :P

user

Italics cost you a ninja :P

caird coinheringaahing

7:46 PM

But your ninja broke the :P chain :P

hyper-neutrino

this post was closed by three people who have been mods at some point in time, all five of whom currently hold a hammer :P

and was deleted by three past/present mods :P

user

@cairdcoinheringaahing Fixed now :P

caird coinheringaahing

> Today's challenge.. Python List

hyper-neutrino

i think i have only used my normal hammer (to close) 8 times :P

caird coinheringaahing

What a descriptive title :p

Redwolf Programs

7:48 PM

@hyper-neutrino That's like running a red light and getting intercepted by an F-16 and a battery of tanks lol

hyper-neutrino

wait crap it's this guy

user

Here is a list of Pythons: ['Alice', 'Bob', 'Cindy', 'Dan']. Print 'Happy Birthday $snake_name" for each of them.

caird coinheringaahing

IIRC there's a deleted question somewhere on the site that was closed by Martin, Alex, Dennis and Doorknob, then deleted by DJ, Mego and WW

I can't search deleted questions tho, so it's probably lost to the mists of time :(

hyper-neutrino

o.O

5512 search results, lol. do you remember anything in its title or its score?

user

Poor OP

Redwolf Programs

7:51 PM

It's their fault for posting something that bad lol

caird coinheringaahing

I think it was like a code-trolling or underhanded post?

I remember seeing it when reading an old TNB log, clicking through and being bombarded with diamonds :P

hyper-neutrino

just looked through all deleted code-trolling and underhanded questions and found nothing with that much mod presence

caird coinheringaahing

¯\_(ツ)_/¯ My memory isn't great, I may have gotten some of the "involved" users wrong

hyper-neutrino

every now and then i'll randomly remember this post (it's offensive but not disturbing by any means) and it always makes me laugh

Unrelated String

lmao

user

8:02 PM

Note to self: Get 10k rep soon and come back here to see the funny post

hyper-neutrino

it's not really that funny

Unrelated String

it's just kind of funny

user

Note to self: Forget previous note

Note to self: Forget previous note, it's kind of funny

Redwolf Programs

It's fairly funny

hyper-neutrino

it's somewhere between not funny and very funny

Unrelated String

8:03 PM

it's not funny enough to have to remember

user

Note limit exceeded

hyper-neutrino

it's not funny enough that i'd remember if it weren't about me

Redwolf Programs

It's funny, but in a not-funny sort of way

Unrelated String

and since it isn't about me it's not funny enough that i'll remember it

Redwolf Programs

Or perhaps it's not funny, but in a funny sort of way

Unrelated String

8:04 PM

true

Redwolf Programs

I think it's the first one though

user

Can you please just link to a screenshot and stop tormenting me with whether or not it's funny? /s

Redwolf Programs

We determine if it's funny

5 mins ago, 4 minutes total – 17 messages, 4 users, 0 stars

Bookmarked 6 secs ago by Redwolf Programs

@hyper-neutrino I have a screenshot link, is it fine if I post it here?

hyper-neutrino

eh, sure, i don't think it really matters :p

Redwolf Programs

Screenshot

user

8:07 PM

lol

Unrelated String

wait i haven't looked at the deleted answer yet either

Redwolf Programs

It's much less funny

Not going to link a screenshot

Unrelated String

^

hyper-neutrino

the answer is more offensive and distasteful, and less funny

Unrelated String

it's telling that it was deleted separately from the question itself

hyper-neutrino

8:11 PM

was it?

A username

Is it funny?

Bai now

hyper-neutrino

depends who you ask

user

CMP: Was it funny?

Anyone want to answer this?

hyper-neutrino

I can maybe ask around in TL or possibly just ask caird to raise it to meta to ask, since this is a tricky question and like with most moderation things, there isn't really a solid answer that can be given, at lot of it comes down to common sense and your own judgement.

→ 1 cup of sugar moved to The Nineteenth Bakery

caird coinheringaahing

8:36 PM

@user I can post a "my opinion" answer and let people vote if you want?

user

Sounds good, I was just bringing it up for attention, it's not like I want it answered right this moment (and it wouldn't matter if I did)

caird coinheringaahing

@hyper-neutrino Could you confirm or deny this statement?

> The moderator analytics (at /admin/analytics) includes this highly visible message at the top:

analytics data is intended for moderators only; please don't share the specifics of this data in public

I believe it's this page

hyper-neutrino

Yes, it says exactly that.

caird coinheringaahing

Ok, thanks

Adám

9:00 PM

Does anyone know how to make CSS flex position my 4 items in a rectangle?

Redwolf Programs

What do you mean?

Adám

If there is enough horizontal space for all 4 items, then I want them in one row.

If there is only enough space for 3 of them, then I want 2 rows, 2 columns.

Otherwise, 4 rows, 1 column.

Redwolf Programs

Not sure if that's possible with CSS

Adám

Hm, I thought flex could do that.

user

Can you use two boxes with two items each?

Adám

9:03 PM

Sure.

Redwolf Programs

That's probably the only way to do it

user

(I mean, does that work?)

Adám

Ah, flex each one. I'll try.

Redwolf Programs

Inline-block would probably work honestly

Adám

Only if they have identical width.

Ok, that kind-of works, but the spacing looks odd. I'll have a play around. Thanks!

caird coinheringaahing

9:37 PM

It's been 9 days since I suggested replacing the Feeds, and 8 days since they were first turned off. How do we feel the bots are doing, and do we want to keep them going?

Redwolf Programs

It's been a solid 24 hours without something going horribly wrong

I think it's going pretty well

hyper-neutrino

I think I'm not ready to say "these work perfectly fine and we can just let them do their thing" but most issues that have been due to the bot and not its creator (👀) have been able to be resolved, so as long as we keep an eye on them, I think we can keep them over the Feeds.

Redwolf Programs

What's the time period where editing is allowed after posting a chat message?

I have a bit of an idea

caird coinheringaahing

2 minutes

Unless you're a mod

Redwolf Programs

I could have the bot listen to edits for the first two minutes after posting a new challenge, then update it if necessary

Might be too much trouble to be worth it though

(or maybe we should just give the bots mod powers ;p)

hyper-neutrino

9:45 PM

yes i am sure the latter is an excellent idea :p

caird coinheringaahing

Nah, mod powers are too restrictive. I say we make them staff members at SE :P

hyper-neutrino

I say we promote the bot to the CEO of SE.

Redwolf Programs

I say we give them unrestricted access to the server room and replace their code with machine learning

caird coinheringaahing

Well, the bots do have more activity on the network than the current CEO

6

user

@RedwolfPrograms Do you trust yourself and other programmers that much?

Redwolf Programs

9:49 PM

Given that I almost deleted both bots, absolutely not :p

caird coinheringaahing

For those who can, we have some pending delete votes that'd be good to clean up

@hyper-neutrino FYI on mobile, that comment looks like (with some strike throughs): "my goats are beyond your understanding" because the l strikethrough is so much higher than the others :P

Redwolf Programs

Still doesn't mean you can understand my goats though

My family and I went to a zoo once. A goat ate our map.

user

Its goals must have been beyond your understanding

Didn't know goats grew in Canada, though

caird coinheringaahing

10:04 PM

This is kinda weird. When I got to my computer earlier, I had a pending First Posts review for this, which was already deleted by the time I got the review, so I clicked "No Action Needed". However, that doesn't show up in the FP history, nor is it in the list of posts deleted today.

I had to use my browser history to get a link

Redwolf Programs

It won't show up in FP history if the review task goes away, but GRT doesn't close old review tasks

That might explain part of that, idk

caird coinheringaahing

Link to the review, found via the timeline of the post

Looks like nobody handled it, presumably because it got nuked before anyone could?

hyper-neutrino

the review was invalidated due to being deleted

idk what y'all see but for me I see a row that it got 2 spam flags, then got queued for first posts review, then got 4 more spam flags, and then was yeeted so the review task was also invalidated

caird coinheringaahing

That explains the review bit, but there's nothing in the list of deleted posts (which does have spam-nuked posts)

@user Answered

hyper-neutrino

which list of deleted, the ones here?

caird coinheringaahing

10:11 PM

Yeah, the Recently Deleted dropdown

hyper-neutrino

isn't that just because too many other things get in its way?

wait i didn't realize you could expand it

if it's supposed to include spam nuked things then... idk

user

10:34 PM

@cairdcoinheringaahing That's a reasonable answer +1

caird coinheringaahing

10:45 PM

@hyper-neutrino Congrats on being Epic :D

2

Redwolf Programs

:o Nice job!

user

Congrats!

Redwolf Programs

I'm so glad I got the bots to auto-acknowledge pings

lyxal

@RedwolfPrograms hmm

I wonder who is responsible for those pings

caird coinheringaahing

Any feedback on either Demonstrate some abstract algebra or But Is It Art??

hyper-neutrino

10:56 PM

@cairdcoinheringaahing thanks :D

lyxal

@cairdcoinheringaahing as someone who knows nothing about art, I would say that it possibly could be. You'd have to ask an actual art expert rather than attempting to get code golfers to determine such a subjective question.

Bubbler

@cairdcoinheringaahing The only complaint from me is that "But Is It Art?" is only 14 characters :P

(metagolfing that language would be also interesting btw)

user

@cairdcoinheringaahing I'd agree with pxeger that people should be allowed to choose S, but that'd be easy to trivialize. To keep people from submitting addition, subtraction, etc., you could ban functions with the same behavior as the four arithmetic operations

caird coinheringaahing

@Bubbler ಠ_ಠ Now I have to come up with a worse title

hyper-neutrino

just do "But, Is It Art?"

user

11:03 PM

¿But Is It Art?

caird coinheringaahing

@user I have no problem with people submitting addition, multiplication or subtraction. The first three (commutative, associative and distributive over addition) are always going to be trivial. They're included to have "the full set" of 9. I expect the interesting stuff to happen in the other functions

Even if I ban the four arithmetic operations, there are countless other trivial such functions. I can handle a little triviality to make the challenge as a whole more interesting

@hyper-neutrino Yep, that works

hyper-neutrino

i ran into that with "Computer Thief" i think lol

had to add an unnecessary "The" :(

user

Replace the m with rn for an extra letter :P

Bubbler

@cairdcoinheringaahing I'm thrown off at the word "bijection". If you really intended this, we can't submit regular + or - or * anyway

and it suddenly becomes an insane challenge

caird coinheringaahing

Oh yeah. Actually, that might be a good thing

Bubbler

11:09 PM

I'm not even 100% sure if it is possible at all

caird coinheringaahing

In fact, is it even possible to define a commutative bijection?

Unrelated String

yeah i feel like distributivity might be impossible

that too

Bubbler

Right

Unrelated String

or associativity

caird coinheringaahing

Surely, a * b = b * a violates the definition of a bijection?

Bubbler

11:10 PM

Yes, whenever a != b

Unrelated String

because each output would have to correspond to only one pair of inputs

caird coinheringaahing

Multiplication is an injection from Z^2 to Z right?

hyper-neutrino

no, 2*6 is equal to 3*4

Bubbler

injection: for any distinct input, the output is distinct

user

Surjective functions would be easier (although there's no reason you wouldn't use surjections)

Bubbler

11:13 PM

so a * b = b * a violates injection too

caird coinheringaahing

Surjection is that for any distinct output, there exists at least one input that yields it, right?

hyper-neutrino

correct

Bubbler

surjection sounds better, as you can avoid something like (_,_)=>0

which can solve six out of nine programs

hyper-neutrino

ah good point

caird coinheringaahing

I might make it so that each of the 9 functions can only exhibit one of the 9 behaviours. That prevents trivial solutions, as well as solutions that basically just cover multiple

user

11:17 PM

That'd make it harder, but perhaps also more interestinger

Bubbler

as in, each function should obey one property but should violate the other eight?

caird coinheringaahing

Yes

hyper-neutrino

that would make this a lot more mathematical i feel, lol. but much more interesting. i think that'd be cool

Bubbler

Sounds good

Wait, no

hyper-neutrino

i feel like this might be impossible tho :p not sure

Bubbler

11:19 PM

Can you define a function that is not commutative, not anti-commutative, and not non-commutative?

hyper-neutrino

oh

caird coinheringaahing

No

And the same applies to the other two properties

hyper-neutrino

you could do "the program exhibiting one property may not exhibit the other two in its group" but idk if that works

Bubbler

It's actually possible if a*b = b*a for some inputs and a*b = -(b*a) for the rest

hyper-neutrino

oh

yeah ur right lol

caird coinheringaahing

11:21 PM

Oh, that's evil. I like it

hyper-neutrino

so this is possible but... seems really hard

user

How about just requiring 9 distinct (irreducible) functions?

hyper-neutrino

that feels somewhat unobservable

caird coinheringaahing

^

user

@hyper-neutrino Distinct by the bytes, not in what they do

Bubbler

11:22 PM

But not sure if some higher math can tell you if satisfying one and violating the other eight is impossible

hyper-neutrino

and irreducability just makes it even harder than it needs to be

caird coinheringaahing

@user lambda a,b:a*b and lambda x,y:x*y are distinct in bytes

user

Without the irreducibility, then

@cairdcoinheringaahing Fair enough

caird coinheringaahing

@Bubbler I think that allowing an answer to be in the form of a proof of impossibility would be acceptable

user

How about only satisfying one property from each of the three "groups" of properties at a time?

hyper-neutrino

11:24 PM

3 mins ago, by hyper-neutrino

you could do "the program exhibiting one property may not exhibit the other two in its group" but idk if that works

ninja'd? or is your proposal different

user

Ninja'd :P

caird coinheringaahing

@user Then you could submit multiplication (c, a, d), power (non-c, non-a, non-d) and it just falls to finding something that is anti-c, anti-a, anti-d

Bubbler

Power is not Z^2->Z

caird coinheringaahing

Good point

I think finding a non-c,non-a,non-d function would be fairly trivial, thinking about it tho

Bubbler

Also I think user and HN intended different grouping, like only one from (c, a, d) at a time

caird coinheringaahing

11:29 PM

Well, you can't have something that is both commutative and non-commutative, so the groupings would have to be (c, a, d), with one being non, one being anti and one being normal. Is that what you guys meant?

I think allowing one from each "group" would make it more doable, but only allowing one property maximum would make it significantly more interesting

hyper-neutrino

basically what i meant was that if a program is for the A-B category, then it cannot be A-? or ?-B (the latter is implied)

so for example, my commutative program obviously cannot be anti or non-commutative, but then it also is not allowed to be distributive or associative

but it can be anti- or non- both of those

Bubbler

So a function for "c" cannot have "a" or "d", a function for "anti-c" cannot have "anti-a" or "anti-d", etc

Btw, do you have any example of anti-associative function?

caird coinheringaahing

No, but apparently they exist

We determine if it's funny

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