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I've already established that, @jslip.
27 mins ago, by Zacharý
@H.PWiz Dinner is ready!
What's even more insane is that parseInt(s) == 0 is not the same thing as s == 0 for a string s, even though logically they should work the same, following JS's insane conversion rules. JS has "\t" consistency when it comes to conversions and equality testing.
@Mego try +"0", +"\t", and +[] instead of parseInt(...)
@ngn Sure, but logically +s should be the same as parseInt(s). The fact that different rules are applied for what should be the same operation is insane.
7:08 PM
@Mego parseInt is horrible. It gives 1 for parseInt("1e10")
oh god i just looked at rads tokenizer. very surprised it doesn't break literally everything
@dzaima That sped it up a lot (not using an O(n^2) tokenizer)
@dzaima It is. It's abysmal, and one of the worst parts about JS.
@dzaima What's so bad: the fact that I use regexes everywhere?
7:17 PM
@Zacharý I mean I don't really understand what it really even does but my guess is that you're relying on regex to choose the correct best/longest matching expression
@dzaima that about sums it up...
my standard for using regex is expect that | will try matching the possibilities in random order (and if I'd need some specific order/setup, then completely throw regex out and write actual code)
@Mego js is a terrible language overall, excellent language if you consider the competition at the time (visual basic) and the timeframe it was created in (couple of weeks), and a language well worth learning if you consider today's deployment of js - practically every user-facing device
@ngn I wouldn't say it's terrible overall, just that 90% of it is, which you can avoid if you want to
@LeakyNun checkmate JavaScript atheists
7:22 PM
someone please explain how developers use monorail and stay sane at the same time
@ngn also excellent when you consider that the guy was told to make Scheme more like Java by his boss
although we didn't end up with Clojure somehow
@quartata yep, "Eich originally joined intending to put Scheme "in the browser",[6] but his Netscape superiors insisted that the language resemble Java in terms of its syntax." - wikipedia
of course now that we know Eich is a bad person I don't have much sympathy
@quartata I haven't been following the news around JS, what did he do?
it was long ago, donated a bunch of money "in defense of traditional marriage"
7:32 PM
@quartata oh... I remember that, yes, weird
pro prop 8
now I think he's doing cryptocurrency stuff
which makes for an amusingly inconsistent libertarian outlook
@quartata shrug people
@quartata you’re doing fundamental attribution
he had a logical reason to do it
it could be stupid logic
makes him stupid, not bad
I remember, the creator of one popular filesystem not too long ago murdered his wife... It's still a good fs.
unless he didn’t have a logical reason, I just assume he did because programming person
7:37 PM
@FrownyFrog believing in an ideology that emphasizes social freedom but then cherry picking groups of people you don't want to be happy and free, then using your wealth to make it so can only be malicious, sorry
I’m 100% sure that wasn’t his reason
good thing I'm basing it directly on what he did and not just guessing intent
not going to do this here
you’re not just saying "he did that, I hate him", you’re also thinking that he was cherry picking groups to harm and stuff
I can assume things just as well
I’m sure it was more like "they can’t use the money effectively to harm these people because I don’t believe donating money works like that but I would gain points with my bigot girlfriend"
see, no malice
being a libertarian presumes believing donating money works that way
you vote with your wallet and the market responds
maybe he's pretending to be libertarian to gain points with his bigot girlfriend's libertarian sister
7:42 PM
it is, at minimum, fundamentally inconsistent to believe the government should not interfere with social things except in the case of queer people
@FrownyFrog by starting two massive crypto currency startups
data accepted
just saying he wasted a lot of time dedicating his life to freeing everyone from the tyranny of the government's fiat currencies if so
you win, that's plenty of data
You're right he could be really dumb but I think it would be meaner to assume that honestly
good point
I see I’m being mean
your points were all valid
I had always assumed the firing was karmic retribution for Javascript. Hadn't heard that he really wanted to make Scheme.
7:50 PM
Honestly it would have been easier if he just threw in a Scheme VM
Things would have gone quicker
@FrownyFrog Let's be nice
did we just go from "haha javascript sucks eggs dee" to an ideological argument
@dzaima Here's how I know it won't completely fall apart:
But, Javascript sucks is already an ideological argument.
> A|B Matches subexpression A, or failing that, matches B
7:58 PM
@feersum it seems I used the wrong word. "ideological" isn't precise enough lol
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

MegoThe Onion, or Not The Onion? test-battery classification decision-problem The Onion (warning: many articles are NSFW) is a satirical news organization that parodies traditional news media. In 2014, The Onion launched ClickHole (warning: also frequently NSFW), a satirical news website that parodi...

@NewSandboxedPosts bwahahahaha
@quartata Such a good challenge that you laughed twice? :P
@NSP lol
@Mego Not intentionally
I promise I will answer this though
8:01 PM
If you laugh intentionally it's not real laughing
@NewSandboxedPosts next up: pr0n or not
@ngn Yeah that's definitely not happening
Trying to find headlines that weren't super obvious, NSFW, or overly inflammatory for that challenge was not easy
@quartata I will hold you to this
I already found a way to do pretty well on that challenge.
8:06 PM
is it googling the headlines
No: checking capitalization, it only fails on two test-cases. Classify an article as "The Onion" if all words are capitalized, "Not The Onion" otherwise
Only fails on two tests cases
another way: get every headline from The Onion that is from before the challenge was posted (so you're not optimizing for the test cases)
@Zacharý Hmm... I should standardize the capitalization
@Mego No, you can just try to find more articles that have Onion-y capitalization. Or are those all NSFW?
@Zacharý I didn't really pay attention to the capitalization
8:10 PM
I standardized the capitalization in the test cases
@Mego Npr
@Adám Notepad++'s capitalization button isn't perfect
@Mego Took me a second to understand what a Dwi is.
You didn't standardize them correctly though, all contractions are messed up
Just make all the letters lowercase.
8:12 PM
Initialisms are hard for stupid programs :P
@Adám I thought they always do that in British Engilsh.
@feersum What?
Sorry, not all contractions: only ones inside single quotations.
@NewSandboxedPosts @Mego any size limitations? otherwise time to open up keras...
@Mego Maybe go all-uppercase? Headlines are often uppercased anyway.
8:13 PM
Writing only the first letter capitalized even if it's an acronym.
@Adám even better: let the answerer choose between all-upper and all-lower
"Family’S", you still have weirdness in some places
@Downgoat What do you mean by size limitations?
@feersum I don't think so. Only when an abbreviation becomes a word (but then it begins with lowercase). And then it applies to everybody, not just the Brits.
pascal (title) case already does though
8:15 PM
@Mego as in program can't be larger than 1024 bytes or something among those lines
@Adám Don't remind me about SQL ...
@Adám Example: BBC writes "Nasa" while it's NASA in American.
@Zacharý Rad, is what I'd call such spelling.
@Downgoat Probably not - that wouldn't be fair to a lot of languages, and there's no need to optimize code size (unless you're pushing up against the SE limit)
8:19 PM
@feersum "well, the Bbc is entitled to its own opinion on spelling" --NASA
@Mego I really enjoyed reading your post. Maybe you could start a website with SFW humour?
Hehe. Well, BBC is not an acronym according to the pedantic definition.
@Adám I have no idea what I would do with such a website
I wasn't even trying to be humorous - I just picked what I thought were good headlines for test cases
8:21 PM
@feersum Right, it's an initialism :P
@Mego I would read it and be humoured without also being annoyed by the NFSW content. It is getting hard to find SFW humour these days.
Most of my humor IRL is extremely NSFW, which you might not expect from how civil I try to be here :P
I don't even know what I would post on such a site - the random funny things I've said in TNB over the past few years?
Just make a feed to @quartata's twitter, then add other things along the way.
exactly what I was looking for in a wesbite
8:27 PM
@Adám "NFSW" = "Not For Servants Working"? :P
@Zacharý That's actually my next challenge idea: Quartata's Twitter or Markov Chains?
@EriktheOutgolfer No F***ing Spelling Works.
so...I guess I should be extremely careful when spelling NSFW...
NFSW = North Fast South West
@Mego ...
8:30 PM
"fast" and "feast" are pretty much exact opposites, which one did you mean?
can someone look over this sandbox post? I'm looking to post it today
@Mego I wonder if AI will ever be able to determine Onionness with reasonable reliability (without searching online, of course).
@EriktheOutgolfer The former - it looks like East but without the bottom bit
@ConorO'Brien Perfectly clear to me, and I didn't know what the word "centrosymmetric" meant until I read your explanation, so good job
@Mego Fun fact: IBM's System/360 allowed backspacing over an F and typing L, and it would then treat it as an E.
8:32 PM
@Adám I'm pretty sure AI has better stuff to do than detecting Onionness, which is something people with enough common sense can do for themselves, especially if the facts are too good to be true
@Adám And there's another challenge idea: combining fixed-width glyphs
"combining fixed-width glyphs" must be self-contained...
@EriktheOutgolfer Right, but it is a good test for AI ability.
@Mego You'd need a fixed set, no?
@Adám Yeah, I was thinking ASCII glyphs in some TBD fixed-width font
@Mego It would have to be a tiny bitmap font for any glyphs to match.
8:36 PM
Something like "Given a set of printable ASCII characters, output an image of those characters superimposed upon each other, in X point Y font"
@Mego thanks!
(X and Y will be constants specified in the challenge - I just don't know what they would be yet)
@Zacharý Well yeah there are rules for how that works, but if the first expression matches 2 chars but the next one would have matched 10, it still goes with the 1st, shorter one
@dzaima It broke when I switched from manually checking each postfix to just using regexes, all I had to do is change Integer | Float to Float | Integer in the decimal section.
@Zacharý That's exactly my reasoning for not assuming ordering - stupid things like that wouldn't ever come up
8:45 PM
@dzaima You could also just not go through every postfix in the first place, like I should've done.
you could also not use regex at all but that'd require a complete rewrite
9:19 PM
Q: Minimal Centrosymmetrization

Conor O'BrienTopically related. Objective: Given a matrix of positive integers \$M\$, output the smallest centrosymmetric matrix which contains \$M\$. A centrosymmetric matrix is a square matrix with rotational symmetry of order 2—i.e. it remains the same matrix after rotating it twice. For example, a centr...

1 hour later…
10:33 PM
@Downgoat I'm just doing pre-trained doc2vec + an SVM
need to fetch more data first
@Zacharý this is more or less how Something Awful started
10:47 PM
@Pavel Nice!
Thanks a lot @Dennis!
Also pretty cool that μ6 got added as well :D
1 hour later…
11:56 PM
I hate lighting
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