CMP: Who here has a break key on their keyboard?

o/

@Dennis If you have mono installed, can you open csi and run ReadKey(true).KeyChar then press break?

I don't have csi, sorry.

Aww

@Pavel Do you mean a Pause key? I think you need to hold Ctrl while pressing Pause to get the Break effect.

@Adám Oh, yeah, it's probably called Pause on most keyboards

I don't have either

@Pavel If it is there, it is usually labelled "Pause" with "Break" below or on the front of the key. Anyway, I have it both on my laptop on on my desktop keyboard (duh, I use a Model M, which for which the key was invented).

@Adám Do you have visual studio installed, by any chance?

@Pavel No, sorry, I don't do any C programming. I let my colleagues do that :-)

Which kind of keyboard do you have?

I have Dell Latitude 7490

@Pavel Try Fn+B and Ctrl+Fn+B.

Yep, that worked. Thanks.

@Pavel I assume everyone with a keyboard?

although it's called a Pause/Break key

@EriktheOutgolfer As I said, I don't.

hm, looks like your keyboard is more evolved in that sense then :P

@Adám :)

@Zacharý I actually did my very first Python "programming" this week.

*clap clap clap*

I don't seem to have this Pause/Break key

Do Python programmers use some special kind of IDE, or how do they deal with adjusting indentation when copying, cutting, or pasting?

@Zacharý Which keyboard do you have?

@Adám IDK

@Zacharý Do you use a laptop?

@Adám they don't need to, but it's convenient

@Adám Yeah

@Zacharý Which brand?

@Adám Were you using notepad.exe or something?

@Pavel Notepad++.

@Adám Check out JetBrains PyCharm. The community edition is free.

@Adám That's what I tend to use on Windows.

But N++ should be fine, yeah

@Pavel I envision I'll do very little Python programming. Probably not worth it. Notepad++ lets me edit multiple lines at once, so I can adjust spacing as needed.

N++ also has a lot of updates :P

@Adám You could also check out VS Code with the Python extension. It's a bit beefier than N++, but still works as a general purpose text editor, and lets you run python directly in the builtin console.

Also it'll automatically highlight errors

Anyway, what was it like using a "normal" programming language?

What's the point? All I had to do was remove an if statement to make the else part unconditional.

What's the point of what?

@Pavel Getting a dedicated editor or editor extension for a one-off.

@Adám Oh, I see what you mean. When you were asking about what IDE people use, I thought you were asking for reccomendations.

First I tried commenting out the condition and amending so it read if false # old code: but it fell over. Then I noticed there was a : at the end, so I changed it to if false: # old code: but it said it didn't know what false was. So I searched online for python false and found that it was spelled False. Finally, if False: # old code: worked!

um, he actually asked

> Do Python programmers use some special kind of IDE, or how do they deal with adjusting indentation when copying, cutting, or pasting?

Yes

That was a yes/no question (or alternatively, some trick to deal with the issue).

I assumed you were asking because you intended to do more Python programming

@Pavel Sorry, I should have been more clear.

Or you could go learn Python, becuase Python is great :P

The CTO told me to remove the disabled code, so I had to outdent the else block :-( In Dyalog APL's editor, I just press NumPad / and all whitespace is normalised.

In VS, ctrl+alt+enter applies code formatting rules across the entire file.

I found this out around five minutes ago.

@Pavel But how can it do so for Python where the indentation carries meaning?

@Adám Stuff like tabs => 4 spaces.

@Adám Sure, but it doesn't care if a block is indented by one space or by 8 spaces. VS wil make every block be indented equally from the previous one.

@Pavel Ah, I see. Still if I remove the if line, the lines below it remain wrongfully indented, no?

Yes.

At which point VS style normalization won't really help

There's a different command that will go through all the syntax errors and try to fix them though

@Pavel Yikes, sounds dangerous.

Must be really awkward to do copy-and-paste programming in Python…

@Adám Well, it's not automatic. It'll make a small pop-up for each error with a menu listing possible fixes.

@Adám VS and PyCharm will both match indentation to existing code when you paste from somewhere else.

But yes, whenever I copy a code sample into TIO I always step on this.

@Pavel And I though APL needed a special editor (it doesn't, actually).

Well neither does Python. Pretty much everyone just uses 4 spaces for indentation.

It's only a problem on TIO because TIO uses tabs.

@Pavel How does TIO use anything? It is just an edit field, no?

what?

So you can be pretty confident everywhere you paste from uses 4 spaces

@Adám Pressing tab inserts a tab

Hella annoying for F#, let me tell you that.

@Pavel You're complaining that the tab key inserts a tab character‽

@Adám most Python IDEs insert a number of spaces when Tab is pressed

@Adám I prefer to use tabs when I can, but sometimes I can't, and then I'd like it to insert some amount of spaces, yes.

tio.run/##SyvWzc3Py///…

@Pavel Wow, that's strict.

@Adám in Python 2, a tab is equivalent to 8 spaces

The #indent "off" thing is a lie by the way

in Python 3, such bastardizations are prohibited

It enables ML compatibility mode, which disables, like, all the things.

Try it online!

Try it online! <-- doesn't even work with spaces

Try it online! <-- this is fine

@Dennis Python37 package is now actually Python 3.7.0

um, wrong chat room?

Yes