The Nineteenth Byte

HyperNeutrino

6:00 PM

random idea: you are not allowed to upvote a post until you have scrolled all the way to the bottom of it

Mr. Xcoder

@HyperNeutrino I will receive a bounty :D

J. Sallé

@cairdcoinheringaahing 200 lines would be fine, the gigantic image was where I drew the line.

HyperNeutrino

@Mr.Xcoder ooh :D

ok the thing I had in mind is the SE maintenance

Nathan Merrill

in 20 years in the future when everybody uses self-driving cars and planes no longer have pilots: Are planes or cars safer?

caird coinheringaahing

@HyperNeutrino ಠ_ಠ Of course they choose a Saturday, not a day when people are at work/school when the sites are down

DJMcMayhem

6:04 PM

@NathanMerrill Probably planes.

caird coinheringaahing

@NathanMerrill Planes are safer, as more car crashes happen due to driver error than plane crashes due to pilot error

Erik the Outgolfer

@cairdcoinheringaahing and that might be the purpose too

HyperNeutrino

I'd say planes because there are so many more cars and cars have so many more things to crash into.

apparently driving to the airport is the most dangerous part of a trip by flight

Erik the Outgolfer

SE may be used by employees to get help, and having it down is very uncomfortable

HyperNeutrino

anyway gtg o/

J. Sallé

6:05 PM

@HyperNeutrino my logic as well

Nathan Merrill

planes have to worry way more about environment

J. Sallé

Cya o/

Nathan Merrill

and weather

DJMcMayhem

I'd say planes are safer because very few people own and fly their own planes, so there will always be an overseeing company that can make the appropriate safety precautions. People with cars would get lazy and forget to check

Nathan Merrill

you have significantly more equipment that can fail

Erik the Outgolfer

6:06 PM

I'd say planes are more dangerous since there is way less of a chance of surviving in case of a plane crash

J. Sallé

@NathanMerrill I don't think any of that makes up to the sheer number of cars around the world though

Nathan Merrill

@DJMcMayhem oooh...good point. People will likely still be maintaining their cars

@J.Sallé I'm not asking which type of crash will be more common, but which is more likely to kill you if you want to travel 2000 miles

because car crashes will always be more common and kill more people

J. Sallé

Ah, I see

DJMcMayhem

Why not measure it in per trip chance of death?

Nathan Merrill

hmmm...

nah, distance is a good measure

J. Sallé

6:07 PM

idk though, I still think "driving" 2k miles would be more dangerous than flying the same distance.

DJMcMayhem

@NathanMerrill No, my point was that people would forget to

Nathan Merrill

@DJMcMayhem right, I was agreeing. There's a human factor there

which means it's a problem

caird coinheringaahing

Also, without pilots, hijacks would be a lot less common

DJMcMayhem

Since a plane ride going wrong is a huge disaster with more deaths, companies pay a lot to avoid it as much as possible. Since me driving my car has a small chance of death that I never think about, I'll drive my car all over the place without bothering to do the right maintenance on it

J. Sallé

@cairdcoinheringaahing dem evil h4x0rs though D:

caird coinheringaahing

6:09 PM

As one example, 9/11 would never have happened with pilotless planes

DJMcMayhem

Multiply that by the millions of old cars on the road, the self driving components of cars will break down all the time

J. Sallé

@DJMcMayhem In this specific setting you wouldn't be driving it though.

Nathan Merrill

the number of cars doesn't work :P

DJMcMayhem

Sure, but I'll still be riding in it

J. Sallé

Yup

DJMcMayhem

6:10 PM

@cairdcoinheringaahing TBF, they are already extremely rare

But events with a horrible outcome are more memorable

Nathan Merrill

Cars:
1. Have more things to avoid (people, other cars)
2. Are less maintained than planes
Planes:
1. Are more affected by weather
2. Contain more people, so a single crash causes more deaths

anything I'm missing?

I think I agree: planes will be safer

unless plane travel becomes way more common and we have more things to consider

DJMcMayhem

@NathanMerrill I think a psychological component is at play here too. Since a single plane crash is a horrible thing, and most people are very afraid of being in a plane crash (and the chance of dying is practically 100%), there will always be more precautions to alleviate that fear (even if it's statistically very safe). Since car crashes are mostly survivable, very common, and most importantly not catastrophic or sensationalized, people aren't really as afraid of them as they should be

Nathan Merrill

oh, I did forget the fact that most car crashes don't actually kill people

Dennis

@NathanMerrill 3. Many plane passengers don't comprehend the risk of loose objects and not wearing a seat belt.

J. Sallé

@Dennis This.

caird coinheringaahing

6:16 PM

I'm more afraid of driving than flying because I've seen the idiots on the road that could hit me

DJMcMayhem

Amen. Just 1 hour ago, I watched someone cut in front of all of traffic on a red just so that they could turn

Nathan Merrill

@Dennis what's the issue of loose objects?

DJMcMayhem

They honestly should have gotten hit. People are idiots

J. Sallé

That backpack you put on the empty seat next to you looks harmless enough until it's flying at hundreds of kilometers/h.

Nathan Merrill

oh, like when the plane actually does crash

caird coinheringaahing

6:17 PM

@J.Sallé Empty seat? You must be flying in luxury. I always get stuck next to screaming baby :/

DJMcMayhem

Not even necessarily in a crash. If they have to make a sudden turn, or you hit turbulence

Dennis

No, plain turbulence is enough.

J. Sallé

Exactly

Nathan Merrill

@Dennis I've never seen stuff fly around in turbulence. Apparently I haven't been in crazy turbulence then :P

J. Sallé

@cairdcoinheringaahing Well I mostly fly a negligible 40-minute flight from Rio to São Paulo, and usually at times most people are either sleeping or going to sleep.

Dennis

6:19 PM

The fact that you're statistically unlikely to have witnessed it, is precisely what makes it so dangerous. Loose passengers/objects are the number one cause of in-flight injuries.

DJMcMayhem

How many times have you gone flying?

@Dennis Injuries or deaths?

Dennis

Injuries.

Nathan Merrill

has it caused deaths?

J. Sallé

Probably a few

caird coinheringaahing

@DJMcMayhem Annoying close to 50+, but not there yet :P (Yes I voted in the actual poll)

DJMcMayhem

6:21 PM

Do you actually know the exact number?

caird coinheringaahing

@DJMcMayhem No, just an estimate

DJMcMayhem

I just made a wild guess (20-25ish)

I've flown on a water-biplane before. That was a blast

caird coinheringaahing

I could try to guess the exact number (not that I'd know if it were correct or not :P)

DJMcMayhem

Every tiny amount of turbulence feels huge

Nathan Merrill

I'm trying to find data on this

caird coinheringaahing

6:23 PM

@DJMcMayhem Like one of the WW2 planes? That must've been awesome :P

Nathan Merrill

the closest I've found is en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_object_damage

but that's more related to damage to the plane itself, not to the passengers

caird coinheringaahing

> 1981-1996, 252 TURB reports affecting major air carriers.
− 2 fatalities (not wearing seatbelts)
− 63 serious injuries
− 863 minor injuries

From this

> Among non-fatal accidents, in-flight turbulence is the
leading cause of injuries

DJMcMayhem

@cairdcoinheringaahing Minus the gun, yes :P

something like this

J. Sallé

@cairdcoinheringaahing I mean how can people be so stupid as to not realize that they should listen to that person on the PA who's flown half their lives telling them to fasten their freaking seatbelts.

Nathan Merrill

ok, so it seems like death by turbulence is far less likely that death by plane crash

J. Sallé

6:27 PM

@DJMcMayhem they took all the fun away then? D:

Nathan Merrill

aha!

47

A: Does fastening airplane seatbelts reduce the risk of death and injury?

Unlike seatbelts found in cars, a seatbelt on an airplane isn't there to save you if the plane slams front first into the ground or is hit by a missile. It's there to keep you safe in the event the plane makes a sudden move or has a minor accident. This commonly happens when flying through tu...

New Main Posts

0

Q: Golf the chinese 9*9 multiple table

Output the following table: 一一得一一二得二二二得四一三得三二三得六三三得九一四得四二四得八三四十二四四十六一五得五二五一十三五十五四五二十五五二十五一六得六二六十二三六十八四六二十四五六三十六六三十六一七得七二七十四三七二十一四七二十八五七三十五六七四十二七七四十九一八得八二八十六三八二十四四八三十二五八四十六八四十八七八五十六八八六十四一九得九二九十八三九二十七四九三十六五九四十五六九五十四七九六十三八九七十二九九八十一 If your environment d...

code-golf

Poke

7:09 PM

@NathanMerrill wow that guy in the comments got #rekt

moonheart08

why is this a thing. github.com/ThePowderToy/The-Powder-Toy/issues/551

We have a blazing fast particle simulation, yet clicking makes the game lag, and clicking causes odd bugs all on it's own

Poke

7:32 PM

how fast were you clicking

i tried it out and it seemed to run fine

Οurous

If I throttle my CPU down to 2Ghz I can see the issue.

Poke

i'd personally be more concerned with github.com/ThePowderToy/The-Powder-Toy/issues/294

your password is being md5'd locally and then sent over http?

that's all sorts of wrong

2

Pavel

The powder toy detected I have a big enough screen for double size, so it automatically started like that, and the settings bar ended up under the taskbar preventing me from changing it.

New Sandboxed Posts

7:53 PM

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

𝘜𝘯𝘪𝘤𝘰𝘥𝘦 𝗠𝗮𝗿𝗸𝗱𝗼𝘄𝗻 𝖥̲𝗈̲𝗋̲𝗆̲𝖺̲𝗍̲𝗍̲𝖾̲𝗋̲ Your task is to create a markdown parser that outputs Unicode. It should support 𝗯𝗼𝗹𝗱, 𝘪𝘵𝘢𝘭𝘪𝘤, and 𝗎̲𝗇̲𝖽̲𝖾̲𝗋̲𝗅̲𝗂̲𝗇̲𝖾̲. Every alphabetical character should be converted into Math Sans. This includes the characters be...

Οurous

8:04 PM

@NSP things like that make me glad I included Unicode strings in Dirty.

Poke

8:15 PM

i get that a docx file is just a compressed archive of xml files but why the heck does it share a magic number with zip files?

Blue

9:14 PM

because then you don't have to rewrite the zip library?

Pavel

pip install -U gpg keeps failing for me and I'm not sure how to fix it.

  swig -python -threads -py3 -Ibuild -outdir build/lib.linux-x86_64-3.6/gpg -o build/gpgme_wrap.c build/gpgme.i
  build/gpgme.h:16: Error: CPP #error ""unexpected value for __WORDSIZE macro"". Use the -cpperraswarn option to continue swig processing.
  error: command 'swig' failed with exit status 1

I tried googling the error and stuff and I'm still not sure how to fix it.

Soaku

In tkinter, is there any way to make frame fit to contents in only one dimension? I want to have an item with fixed width, but with height set to content...

fill doesn't help

Frame(..., width="350px", fill="y").pack_propagate(False)

doesn't work

AdmBorkBork

@Poke Because they're still zip files. If I remember right, JAR and ODF files share the magic number, too, for the same reason.

Pavel

@Poke What's a magic number?

Poke

@Pavel try installing swig?

Pavel

9:21 PM

@Poke Well the swig command runs, but fails

Poke

@AdmBorkBork @Pavel yeah but the purpose of that number is to identify the filetype...

@Pavel try updating swig?

i saw a couple google results saying you may need to manually grab swig3

AdmBorkBork

But they are zip files, they're just a specific sub-type.

@Pavel File header information to identify file types.

Pavel

swig -version reports I have latest.

Poke

@AdmBorkBork to me it's weird that subtype isn't enough to justify a different magic number

@Pavel i think swig3 might be different?

AdmBorkBork

Yeah, I can see that.

Pavel

9:24 PM

@Poke Pip is still running the command swig and not swig3.

Poke

@Pavel this is one of the ones i was looking at github.com/automl/auto-sklearn/issues/314

Pavel

@Poke SWIG Version 3.0.12

AdmBorkBork

@Poke Have you tried opening a docx file in something like 7-Zip? It's kinda neat.

Poke

@AdmBorkBork yes indeed

Pavel

I wonder if self-extracting-archives are also classified as zips

AdmBorkBork

9:29 PM

Pretty sure they are

Poke

List of file signatures

This is a list of file signatures, data used to identify or verify the content of a file. Such signatures are also known as magic numbers. Many file formats are not intended to be read as text. If such a file is accidentally viewed as a text file, its contents will be unintelligible. However, sometimes the file signature can be recognizable when interpreted as text. The column ISO 8859-1 shows how the file signature appears when interpreted as text in the common ISO 8859-1 encoding. == See also == List of file formats Magic number (programming) == References == == External links == Gary Kessler...

Pavel

Does Windows have an equivalent to Linux's file?

Poke

i like how .rar files have "Rar!...."

@Pavel don't think so

maybe in cygwin :P

or if you have win10 you can just use bash

Pavel

For a really long time I thought WSL was just an impractical gimmick, I'm surprised by how many people actually use it for everyday tasks.

Poke

> For a really long time...

> released august 2016

:]

totallyhuman

9:38 PM

that's pretty long

Poke

it wasn't as widely available until October 2017

at which point it was put into the windows store or something

Pavel

I installed it the day it was available

Poke

1.5 years isn't /that/ long

Pavel

It's like a 10th of the time I've been alive

totallyhuman

it's a te—

ninja'd

Poke

9:44 PM

>.>

totallyhuman

9:57 PM

codegolf.stackexchange.com/a/147384/68615

Pavel

But... why?

Poke

haha what the heck

totallyhuman

boredom

being a douche

BMO

10:25 PM

Hi!

Pavel

Hello!

BMO

Just finished writing a compiler for Brain-Flak :D

github.com/bforte/BrainFlaX86

(note: I haven't tested it on neither Windows nor Mac)

DJMcMayhem

10:36 PM

@BMO Damn

That's a first

BMO

I couldn't find one, that's why I wrote it ;)

DJMcMayhem

I'd be happy to test it on windows for you later this evening

You should do some benchmarking on it. I bet WheatWizard would be very interested to see how it compares with the current fastest interpreter (also in haskell)

@BMO Does it support {...} accumulation?

Pavel

What's that?

BMO

I really wanted to write some asm and thought it'd be fun to write an actual compiler and it's a language that's not too hard to do so.

DJMcMayhem

@Pavel ({...}) will push the sum of every loop

BMO

10:40 PM

@DJMcMayhem: I did some benchmarks with this on my machine and it outperforms quite well :)

I'm not very patient but for large inputs it seems to be more and more, it was at around ~50x for small ones and getting above 150x for larger inputs

DJMcMayhem

Actually, it says: The {...} will evaluate to the sum of all runs.

BMO

Yes

DJMcMayhem

Actually, it says {} not {...}, so that's a typo

I should fix that

Pavel

I was looking at These functions will also return the value inside of them

DJMcMayhem

Ah, yeah that's not entirely true.

I should edit that

It's there to point out that (...) evaluates to it's input, but that's straight up false for the other 3

Pavel

10:42 PM

Yeah

DJMcMayhem

@BMO It's actually this one that's the fastest we have so far

BMO

Oops, wrong link

(I did the benchmark with the BrainHack one)

DJMcMayhem

The ruby interpreter is extremely bloated

I'm a much bigger fan of my python interpreter

BMO

Didn't see that one

DJMcMayhem

@BMO Here. It was supposed to end up becoming pain-flak V2, but that never really went anywhere (even though it's technically fully implemented)

I like it a lot more than the ruby interpreter because rather than storing a crap-ton of information and parsing character by character, it pre-parses everything into a list of atoms and gives each atom the ability to execute itself

BMO

10:47 PM

Holy... that's really short ^^

DJMcMayhem

Not as short as this one ;)

That one was a blast to write

totallyhuman

qrng.anu.edu.au/API/api-demo.php

DJMcMayhem

@BMO Oh hey, one more question. Are there int limits? What IO flags are supported?

ASCII-only

@BMO isn't brainhack basically a compiler

BMO

@DJMcMayhem: Yeah, all integers are 32bit 2s-complement so they're restricted to [-2147483648,2147483647]

ASCII-only

10:53 PM

@BMO :|||||||||

BMO

..and the binary will suport the -a flag for output, but only supports input as integers.

@ASCII-only ?

DJMcMayhem

@ASCII-only I don't think so:

> To run a Brain-Flak program call the resulting binaries with the name of the file where the source is located and the arguments for the program.

BMO

No, BrainHack is an interpreter, there's one binary for all programs which does interpretation.

DJMcMayhem

"The resulting binaries" referring to the compiled interpreter

ASCII-only

@DJMcMayhem yeah, but I meant more in the sense that compared to brain-flak it's insanely fast

DJMcMayhem

10:55 PM

Sure, but so is literally every other serious (i.e. non-golfed) interpreter/compiler out there

BMO

@DJMcMayhem: Btw. those two questions are answered on the GH page ;)

DJMcMayhem

So far, we have 2 haskell interpreters/compilers, 1 C interpreter, 1 python interpreter, and the official ruby interpreter. I haven't benchmarked my python interpreter, but I'd be willing to bet it's at least 5-10 times faster than the ruby one

@BMO BTW, if you want to post a link to your compiler in the third stack, I'll pin it

ASCII-only

@DJMcMayhem There's also Conor's compiler written in Ruby :P

DJMcMayhem

Oh, I never heard about that one

ASCII-only

github.com/ConorOBrien-Foxx/Brain-Flak-compiler

BMO

11:01 PM

I will

Esolanging Fruit

I'd argue that any implementation not using unbounded ints is wrong

ASCII-only

yes it is

Esolanging Fruit

The spec doesn't mention it, but the reference implementation has unbounded ints

and it affects how I would prove Turing-completeness

Οurous

While we're talking about fast interpreters, is this adequate performance for summing up to 1 million? tio.run/##S8ksKqn8/9/QAAz0HnVMVPz//…

Esolanging Fruit

@Οurous From my testing, it's slightly slower than the equivalent in CJam

and CJam is interpreted in Java

ASCII-only

11:09 PM

Which means it's fine

Esolanging Fruit

Make of that what you want

DJMcMayhem

@Οurous That's several times faster than jelly (2.5 seconds) but significantly slower than python (.07 seconds)

But I bet python special cases sum(range)

ASCII-only

Python with less specialcasing

Esolanging Fruit

@DJMcMayhem On TIO, print(sum(range(100000))) gives me about 0.03-0.06. print(sum(i for i in range(100000))) gives me a pretty consistent 0.06.

ASCII-only

Actually, I should switch Charcoal to generators >_>

DJMcMayhem

11:17 PM

@ASCII-only And yet without timeit, that's 20x faster

ASCII-only

@DJMcMayhem but timeit says it takes 0.06s?

DJMcMayhem

o_O No? I thought it says it takes 6.6 seconds

ASCII-only

@DJMcMayhem yeah for 100 repeats

why would it take longer with timeit >_>

DJMcMayhem

Ah, that makes way more sense

ASCII-only

Charcoal actually doesn't do that badly

Pretty badly, but well, it's an ASCII art language

there's the overhead of the canvas and brotli and things >_>

DJMcMayhem

11:21 PM

Brain-flak does abysmally

Although it only takes 1.5 seconds in brain-hack

ASCII-only

wait what

i can't get it to work in brain-hack <_<

Esolanging Fruit

@ASCII-only Input is via command-line args

DJMcMayhem

Args not input

Esolanging Fruit

I'm getting anywhere between 1.5 and 3 seconds on BrainHack

BMO

Well, I know that it's not entirely correct to use bounded integers, but I won't implement arbitrarily sized integers in assembly...

And if I did someone would come telling me it's not Turing complete because their computer only has N gigs of memory ^^

DJMcMayhem

11:28 PM

It doesn't even finish it under 60 seconds in V: Try it online!

ASCII-only

@BMO gmp is a thing...

Esolanging Fruit

Rust takes about .58 to run, but .52 of that is compilation

Whoops didn't mean to ping you

Here's how I timed it (uses i64s with wrapping add)

Downgoat

@ASCII-only elaborate? We don't want to restrict esolangs?

ASCII-only

@Downgoat nonono like as in like do this (or do without this) for point bonus

totallyhuman

neither of those are something that should be encouraged :P

ASCII-only

11:34 PM

it's optional of course

Downgoat

@ASCII-only bonuses aren't great

ASCII-only

more to avoid 10000000000000000 similar challenges

@Downgoat hmm, true. then just have submission restriction options i guess

Downgoat

@ASCII-only so like make program that does A, B, and C, and get more points the more things it does?

ASCII-only

@Downgoat not really? more for like having two variants of a question (or extension of a question) without actually having two separate posts

New Main Posts

11:53 PM

0

Q: Oops, I blew it up (with numbers)

Inspired by There, I fixed it (with rope),There, I fixed it (with Tape), There, I broke it (with scissors) Given a string with characters from a-z, blow it up where it is missing letters. Example 1 Input : abdefgjkl Output : a121ef1221kl Why? 1) ab2defg22jkl Add the "gound zero" of the ex...

code-golf string

Downgoat

@ASCII-only you mean categories

ASCII-only

@Downgoat that is probably a better way to put it yes

Transcript for