The Nineteenth Byte

Mr. Xcoder

17:00

What? Javascript BELOW C and Ruby... They've had a headache when they've written that article ≤_≤

Objective-C is there but SWIFT isn't... That's 100% wrong

Pavel

And C is there twice

Mr. Xcoder

:O

Pavel

This website might not be the best source of information.

Mr. Xcoder

> 3. C

ASCII-only

@officialaimm what mistake

Mr. Xcoder

17:02

> 10. C

Eugh

officialaimm

@ASCII-only The IF ELSE Statement....

Conor O'Brien

@Pavel that's a terrible article lol

Mr. Xcoder

Horrific article, I'd say

ASCII-only

@officialaimm what do you mean

Mr. Xcoder

Java #1 and Python #2. Really?

Pavel

17:04

Better article found:

insights.stackoverflow.com/survey/2017#technology

> SQL #2

o_O

Mr. Xcoder

Much more relevant.

ASCII-only

@Pavel yeah there are a lot of databases out there

Pavel

10 mins ago, by ASCII-only

@Pavel eh C# isn't exactly the most widely known language here

According to the StackOverflow survey, it's more well known than Python.

ASCII-only

@Pavel here being PPCG

Mr. Xcoder

^

ASCII-only

17:07

I don't think most people here work as programmers, which has a big impact on language usage

Business Cat

I'd say of the people here who work at all, most do something programming related

Conor O'Brien

I would say java is most well known, then python, then javascript, then sql, then ruby

officialaimm

@ASCII-only the one liner IF- else gets executed in MS-Qbasic... It must be that it is a language variation microsoft adopted then!!

Mr. Xcoder

I'd say: java, javascript, python, c#, sql, ruby, c (++), swift

Pavel

I think more people here know C/++ than Ruby.

Mr. Xcoder

17:15

On PPCG: Jelly, 05AB1E, Pyth, MATL, charcoal

officialaimm

I always get confused with ruby and perl.... which one is python-like again?

Mr. Xcoder

@officialaimm None of them

Business Cat

@Mr.Xcoder I only know 1 of those languages ಠ_ಠ

Mr. Xcoder

Definitely not perl though

Business Cat

And not super well

Mr. Xcoder

17:16

@BusinessCat I didn't say what we know, just what the most popular are

@BusinessCat I know 2 kinda well and other 2 not so well

totallyhuman

ruby is python-like

i think the dude who made ruby also said something about it

Mr. Xcoder

Meh, kinda

Conor O'Brien

ruby is python done right

7

Riker

*python is ruby done right

9

Mr. Xcoder

He was inspired by Guido

^^

@ConorO'Brien What are the reasons you hate Python so much?

Conor - types endless list

Conor O'Brien

17:20

I started typing that list

but I decided to do the inverse

let me tell you all the good thing about python

Mr. Xcoder

ok

Conor O'Brien

(1) it didn't screw up library imports. (2) generators. (3) named keywords

that's all I can think of

Pavel

@Riker ಠ_ಠ

@ConorO'Brien List comprehension is nice.

Riker

^

Mr. Xcoder

@Pavel LCs are generators

Conor O'Brien

17:23

it's fine

Mr. Xcoder

Like, in essence

Conor O'Brien

they're just a reiteration (no pun intended) of the for loop

Riker

yes but it's much neater to write

Conor O'Brien

HHAHAAHA

Mr. Xcoder

@ConorO'Brien I would really add String slicing to that list. It's better than in any other language I know

Conor O'Brien

17:25

@Mr.Xcoder I was about to say, how presumptuous >.>

Pavel

foo = [i + 1 for i in list] is much better than foo = []; list.each{|i| foo << i + 1}

Conor O'Brien

string slicing is okay, but I find that I hardly ever use it often enough to warrant a dedicated syntax

@Pavel list.map { |e| e + 1 }

Mr. Xcoder

^

Pavel

As you can see I don't know Ruby very well >_>

Conor O'Brien

OH and operator overloading, python does that quite nicely

Pavel

17:27

I disagree with that.

Mr. Xcoder

I agree with Conor

Pavel

I don't like Python's magic methods.

Mr. Xcoder

Because you probably didn't take the time to understand them

Business Cat

Yeah I'm not crazy about the specific implementation of operator overloading

But op overloading is a very useful feature to have

Pavel

@Mr.Xcoder I understand it, I just like the way it's done in C/++/# more.

Conor O'Brien

17:28

I like how ruby does it, but it doesn't provide RHS operator overload IIRC

@Pavel operator overloading in C? o_O

Mr. Xcoder

@ConorO'Brien Now, list a couple of things you really dislike about it

Pavel

@ConorO'Brien Not C

Conor O'Brien

oh I've been typing that up for a few minutes

Pavel

Just ++ and #

Conor O'Brien

C(++|#)

Mr. Xcoder

17:29

C(++ || #) :)

Business Cat

C(\+\+|#)

Mr. Xcoder

Mhm, someone should make C**

Pavel

I was thinking C##

Business Cat

@Pavel But that's just D

Pavel

Is it?

Step Hen

17:32

@MDXF is making C+

Business Cat

As far as music is concerned

Pavel

Ah

Riker

something interesting: multiline messages don't support markdown in chat, but they do on the starboard. see here

Pavel

I thought you were saying that C is to C# as C# is to D, which is wrong.

Leaky Nun

@Riker very interesting

Step Hen

17:34

@Mr.Xcoder you have to check if the variable exists and then assign a default, I asked him

Riker

@LeakyNun yea

hey your avatar changed

Mr. Xcoder

@StepHen How. Example?

Riker

it's now a bright blue identicon

idr what it was before but not that

Step Hen

@Pavel TIOBE index is usually more accurate than an article :P

in Proton, 22 hours ago, by HyperNeutrino

https://tio.run/##KyjKL8nP@59m@18jUUchyd5eU8HWTiFJIbUis7ikWMFeIVFBG8i1UtA1/F9QlJ‌lXopGmYaipyQVn6ygYaWr@BwA

oh yeah and ?? means that it can be null

Business Cat

That's just optional, doesn't give it a default value

Conor O'Brien

17:36

anyhow, here's my nigh endless list (some complaints aren't limited to python, but most are). regex, classes, class inheritance, ternary if-else, indentation via mandatory whitespace, lambdas, lack of type safety, class method declaration, (mainly python 2: confusion between statements and functions), scoping (to be fair I never cared about python enough to learn the specifics of scoping in python), global scope pollution, the weird desire to be partially backwards compatible with python 2, ...

Pavel

31 mins ago, by Pavel

https://insights.stackoverflow.com/survey/2017#technology

Mr. Xcoder

@StepHen Not what I meant. I wanted the equivalent of lambda a,b=1

Step Hen

@Mr.Xcoder yes I know

Mr. Xcoder

o

Step Hen

it doesn't exist

Mr. Xcoder

17:37

Meh

Step Hen

closest you'll get is (a, b??) => b = b exists ? b : <default>

I think Hyper said he'll consider adding it though

New Main Posts

3

Q: Codegolf the sequence of distance-3 Hamming Codewords (A075926)

Codegolf the hamming code (with distance equals 3)! The sequence looks like this: 0, 7, 25, 30, 42, 45, 51, 52, 75, 76, 82, 85, 97, 102, 120, 127, 385, 390, 408, 415, 427, 428, 434, 437, 458, 461, 467, 468, 480, 487, 505, 510, 642, 645, 667, 668, 680... Task Output the first n hamming codewor...

Mr. Xcoder

I hope he does

Step Hen

this is what he said about it:

in Proton, 22 hours ago, by HyperNeutrino

because I didn't implement that

Mr. Xcoder

@StepHen It was a matter of outgolfing totallyhuman, so that borky syntax won't help :/ - Thanks for the references!

AdmBorkBork

17:40

@Mr.Xcoder Hey, my syntax doesn't have anything to do with this. :p

Mr. Xcoder

Wow, Physics.SE is a dead place. The last questions have ≈5 views each, although they're >30 mins old

@AdmBorkBork Sorry, no pun intended :P

Conor O'Brien

who the bleep flagged python is ruby done right

are you freaking kidding me guys

Mr. Xcoder

Who flagged that?

Step Hen

@Mr.Xcoder more like they get a ton of questions and they don't have enough people to answer them :P

Almo

@Riker who the hell flagged this

Mr. Xcoder

17:41

@StepHen Nope, 1 question in 10 mins is the average

Some Ruby lover, prolly

Step Hen

@Mr.Xcoder average what, SE-wide?

Almo

>:(

Mr. Xcoder

@StepHen No, Physics.SE

Step Hen

@Mr.Xcoder ... are you saying that's slow?

Almo

BTW what's the name of this channel refer to?

Mr. Xcoder

17:43

@StepHen Yes, compared to SO and M.SE, very slow

Pavel

The bar at the end of a golf course is traditonally called The Nineteenth Hole

Almo

oh yeah!

Pavel

And we're Code Golfers

Almo

thanks :)

AdmBorkBork

43

A: Let's think of a creative name for our chatroom

Well, the traditional generic name for the country club bar is "the nineteenth hole", which suggests The Nineteenth Byte or something like that.

Mr. Xcoder

17:43

@Almo Apart from that, the thing is that The Nineteenth Byte is exactly 19 bytes long

Almo

yeah that's really cool

:)

Conor O'Brien

@ConorO'Brien ... capital letters in constants such as True, False, None, the weird while...else or for...else constructs that almost no one uses. I think I should do a "programming sins" like "cinema sins", that'd be kind of fun(ny) :P

totallyhuman

ok point for capital constants

Step Hen

@ConorO'Brien wait, you don't like classes?

Mr. Xcoder

@ConorO'Brien I agree on ternaries and classes.

totallyhuman

17:45

that's one of the dumbest things of python

Pavel

Also, visiting TNB causes an equal if not greater drop in productivity as visiting a pub.

8

Mr. Xcoder

^^

totallyhuman

and don't you dare perform a sed substitution on my message

Step Hen

@totallyhuman s/of/in/

AdmBorkBork

@Pavel I'm plenty productive here

Conor O'Brien

17:46

@StepHen I love classes. Python is an abomination to classes basically

AdmBorkBork

Just what I'm producing is up for debate.

Mr. Xcoder

:I I kinda like the lack of safety (types)

Step Hen

@ConorO'Brien Yes, but it's better than JavaScript...

Pavel

@AdmBorkBork In the same way that visiting a pub makes you produce vomit?

Mr. Xcoder

@Pavel You know, we're golfing productivity

AdmBorkBork

17:46

Sure.

totallyhuman

ಠ_ಠ magic functions are perfectly done

@StepHen ...ಠ_ಠ

Conor O'Brien

@StepHen no, actually, it's not.

because js doesn't have classes

Step Hen

@ConorO'Brien well the classes in Python are better than the prototype stuff in JS

which is what I mean

Leaky Nun

Arabic doesn't have the g sound :o

Pavel

As far as I can tell, JavaScript has dictionaries disguised as objects.

totallyhuman

17:49

^

they don't even hide it :P

Mr. Xcoder

@LeakyNun :0 Really?

Leaky Nun

@Mr.Xcoder yes

Pavel

Which is why the most common way to serialize a dictionary in any language is as JSON.

Step Hen

@Pavel I thought you said classes, my bad

totallyhuman

in some ways, even classes are objects lel

Step Hen

17:51

@totallyhuman yes but they are first functions in JS (and then functions are objects) :P

Pavel

In C#, everything is an object.

officialaimm

@LeakyNun g as in grand?? or germany?? There is a throaty sounding equivalent to g(grand) I think..

Step Hen

they only reason JavaScript can even simulate classes is closures

Conor O'Brien

should I even try talking about javascript

Leaky Nun

@officialaimm the hard g, as in grand.

totallyhuman

17:52

no pls don't

Step Hen

@ConorO'Brien don't get offtopic, one at a time

Conor O'Brien

aight, have fun being unenlightened :P

totallyhuman

i'm afraid your walls of text are some times too much :P

Pavel

In Java, ints, chars, etc. or primitives and not object, however while C# does make the distinction between value types and reference types, it still consideres everything to be either a struct or object.

totallyhuman

and in JS...

Step Hen

17:52

@Pavel in JS ints are floats and floats are objects

Pavel

There is no difference between an int and a struct foo { int a; }

Except the way you get the value.

totallyhuman

what even is a struct trying to be

Conor O'Brien

in short: prototypes are awesome; objects are not dictionaries, they are glorified hash tables; primitives are not objects, and "classes" are objects with prototypes

officialaimm

@LeakyNun are you learning arabic?? I like the three-syllable thing in arabic... Do you know about that?

Pavel

@totallyhuman A class that you can pass by value instead of by reference.

@ConorO'Brien Isn't a Dictionary a generalized hash table?

Leaky Nun

17:54

@officialaimm I'm not learning arabic but I have heard of the triliteral roots

Conor O'Brien

@Pavel yes

Pavel

So....

Leaky Nun

e.g. k-t-b means everything from book and write to author

Stewie Griffin

14

Q: Optimal path through a matrix

Given a matrix consisting of positive integers, output the path with the lowest sum when traversing from the upper left element to the bottom right. You may move vertically, horizontally and diagonally. Note that it's possible to move both up/down, right/left and diagonally to all sides. Example...

code-golf number graph-theory optimization matrix

Leaky Nun

the difference lies in the vowels

Stewie Griffin

17:55

Is it a dupe? ^^

@WheatWizard I disagree. Apart from the mostly superficial differences that this challenge allows for diagonal movement and all positions are reachable, the other challenge requires return of the path itself rather than just the cost of the path. Unless you're using built-ins that return both, the code is not interchangeable. — beaker 1 hour ago

Leaky Nun

(this is why Arabic/Hebrew don't really write out every vowel, because the main meaning is in the consonants)

Mr. Xcoder

@StewieGriffin IMO it is

Leaky Nun

@officialaimm you see, my messages are split

Step Hen

@StewieGriffin I don't think so, output formatting for the other one was weird and probably a lot of the bytes

AdmBorkBork

In PowerShell, even number literals are objects.

Mr. Xcoder

17:56

But I don't have such strong opinions

AdmBorkBork

Step Hen

@LeakyNun but Arabic isn't golfy, it's way too many bytes...

Leaky Nun

@StepHen ...

Step Hen

@StewieGriffin actually let's close the old one as dupe

Stewie Griffin

@StepHen I don't think it's a dupe either, but I'm biased towards my own challenge of course...

Mr. Xcoder

17:57

Anyone into bitwise stuff? Any shorter way for (1-s), other than -~-s?

Step Hen

@StewieGriffin the output format is wonky and it only has one answer, plus it's got an unrelated title

Conor O'Brien

@Mr.Xcoder --s maybe? :P

Leaky Nun

@ConorO'Brien Python

Conor O'Brien

e_e

Leaky Nun

no, this doesn't even work in C

Mr. Xcoder

17:58

@ConorO'Brien ಠ_ಠ

Conor O'Brien

yeah I know

totallyhuman

wait what language would that work in o0

Conor O'Brien

I thought -~-s looked basically like --s, bad joke :P

Leaky Nun

@ConorO'Brien -~-

Conor O'Brien

lol

Stewie Griffin

18:00

@StepHen I don't think it should be closed as a duplicate of mine to be honest, they're not duplicates in my opinion. It's possible the older challenge is not as good as the new one (I won't judge this), but it shouldn't be closed as a dupe as far as I can tell.

Step Hen

@StewieGriffin yeah I retracted that vote

Leaky Nun

> The pyramids of Giza were as old to the Ancient Romans as the Ancient Romans are to us. When the Pyramids were being built, there were woolly mammoths living in Wrangel Island.

Nathan Merrill

@AdmBorkBork We are very specific (IIRC) with our rules for free flags: They have to be required, and not a "one of these is required, pick one"

but the "pass the size of the cube", while it could be required, it's a "pick one out of many"

Step Hen

@NathanMerrill yep, the meta post I found said that if one is required but there are several options, you don't need to count the invocation ( -) but you do need to count the bytes of the flag itself

AdmBorkBork

So how does that work with Perl, where you pass in the version?

Step Hen

18:06

10

A: Scoring mandatory but varying command-line arguments

They're evidently part of the program, and they're important information so they should be counted. That said, I'd probably count them as 3 bytes (not 5 as would normally the case when you have to add a space, a hyphen and your three characters to the command-line invocation) since the "standard ...

Nathan Merrill

@AdmBorkBork well, future versions always have new releases

I can't just put a future version on a past interpreter and make it work. Therefore, I'd argue that passing the current version is always what you want

while you can pass in old versions, I'd argue that that is no longer "required", and you would need the bytes

As far as unbanning MetaGolfScript, I think you bring up a good point: We either are strict on flags, or we unban metagolfscript. I happen to be on the "strict on flags" party, but I completely understand your side

Mr. Xcoder

@LeakyNun Can you help me golf a Pyth submission?

Leaky Nun

@Mr.Xcoder sure

Mr. Xcoder

@LeakyNun I have this: W<lYQ=+ZJ.Em>3/.BxZd\1Y=+Y*-1J]Z)Y (uses a while because I didn't see any other approach)

0

A: Codegolf the sequence of distance-3 Hamming Codewords (A075926)

Pyth, 34 bytes The algorithm is very similar to the Python answer W<lYQ=+ZJ.Em>3/.BxZd\1Y=+Y*-1J]Z)Y Try it here.

Leaky Nun

@Mr.Xcoder I still haven't worked out the definition of the sequence...

AdmBorkBork

18:13

@NathanMerrill Yeah, I get your side, too. I guess I'll wait to see what Martin responds on my comment.

Mr. Xcoder

Ok, I'll let you figure it out by yourself. I am not entirely sure I understood either, It is kind of a blind port of the Python answer.

Rod saw my golfing suggestion, but didn't edit

>_>

Leaky Nun

@Mr.Xcoder oh I understand it now

Mr. Xcoder

Great

Let me know if you seek golfing opportunities (you probably will :P)

@LeakyNun o_O Thanks a lot!

mınxomaτ

18:28

Play RPS with in in-browser ANN: tenso.rs/demos/rock-paper-scissors

totallyhuman

oh nvm

MD XF

It doesn't link it

We had this discussion last week

totallyhuman

i didn't

:P

MD XF

oh

:P

totallyhuman

pls halp golf lambda s,p:[sum(p[s.index(i):s.index(i)+s.count(i)])/s.count(i)for i in s]

Mr. Xcoder

18:36

@totallyhuman What does it do?

totallyhuman

13

Q: Mario Kart Scoring w/ Ties

I ran into this problem while working on another challenge I'm making for this site. In that challenge I utilize "Mario Kart 8 Scoring". The amount of points the player in kth place gets is represented by this 1-indexed array: [15,12,10,9,8,7,6,5,4,3,2,1]. So 1st place gets 15 points, 2nd place g...

code-golf array-manipulation

Mr. Xcoder

@totallyhuman Just saying, did you see there is a Python solution already, no?

totallyhuman

yes

Leaky Nun

@totallyhuman lambda s,p:[sum(p[s.index(i):][:s.count(i)])/s.count(i)for i in s]

totallyhuman

@LeakyNun ohh that's a good one

@Mr.Xcoder and i just out-golfed it :P

Mr. Xcoder

18:41

How did I miss that challenge?

@totallyhuman Or Leaky did :P

totallyhuman

:P

Mr. Xcoder

@totallyhuman In fact, it is 1 byte shorter :P

totallyhuman

in my world, that's an out-golf :P

Mr. Xcoder

Ok

I thought of a method that might be better... Not Sure though

totallyhuman

bring it on :P

Mr. Xcoder

18:44

Wait, working

totallyhuman

0

A: Mario Kart Scoring w/ Ties

Python 2, 66 bytes -8 bytes thanks to Leaky Nun. lambda s,p:[sum(p[s.index(i):][:s.count(i)])/s.count(i)for i in s] Try it online!

Mr. Xcoder

@totallyhuman I had this, but dividing by length makes it longer: [sum(p[s.index(i):s[::-1].index(i)])for i in s]

totallyhuman

ah nice trick

Mr. Xcoder

@totallyhuman Oh, it doesn't seem to work though

totallyhuman

just 3 bytes longer thouhg

oh... and that

:P

Mr. Xcoder

18:47

@totallyhuman lambda s,p:[sum(p[s.index(i):len(s)-s[::-1].index(i)])/s.count(i)for i in s]

totallyhuman

10 bytes longer

Mr. Xcoder

I cannot remove len(s) for some reason.... oh

@LeakyNun Do you know how I could golf [blahblah:len(s)-x] to [blahblah:<something>x]?

totallyhuman

wasn't it -~ or something?

btw, -~- is a great face

Mr. Xcoder

Oh, 12- works here!

@totallyhuman Dumb me ^

Business Cat

@Mr.Xcoder You want the index from the end?

Leaky Nun

18:51

@Mr.Xcoder parentheses

Mr. Xcoder

Yes

Leaky Nun

@Mr.Xcoder same byte-count though

Business Cat

Then ~s

Mr. Xcoder

@LeakyNun Thanks, I found 12-

Works for the purpose

Leaky Nun

wait, neither works

the middle should be all 7

Mr. Xcoder

18:51

Why?

@LeakyNun No, you may output as a float.

Leaky Nun

@Mr.Xcoder 7 or 6 or 6.83

not 0.

Mr. Xcoder

What?

Leaky Nun

@Mr.Xcoder run it yourself

Mr. Xcoder

@LeakyNun [1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1] gives

[6.833333333333333, 6.833333333333333, 6.833333333333333, 6.833333333333333, 6.833333333333333, 6.833333333333333, 6.833333333333333, 6.833333333333333, 6.833333333333333, 6.833333333333333, 6.833333333333333, 6.833333333333333]

.

Run it yourself.

Not sure what you mean

Yours fails.

Leaky Nun

never mind

ignore it

Mr. Xcoder

18:54

Posted, golfing (hopefully)

Leaky Nun

why doesn't it work without the 12?

Mr. Xcoder

@LeakyNun Absolutely no idea

bug

Leaky Nun

@Mr.Xcoder because -0 is 0 ^^

Poke

vscode cough bug cough

Mr. Xcoder

@LeakyNun :o... right

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