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12:00 AM
@HyperNeutrino wtf you're breaking the rules
 
@Christopher Zip.zip
 
@HyperNeutrino Doesn't open by default specify readonly mode?
 
Then do __import__('os').system('pkill python*')
 
Fixed it
 
Though I think that's a Linux thing.
 
12:00 AM
@Christopher Zip.zip
 
@Christopher +1
@Phoenix Yeah true
 
@betseg XD
 
@DestructibleLemon :P
 
@Christopher what did you fix?
 
@DestructibleLemon Made it a blue circle
 
12:01 AM
__import__('os').system('del Handle.py')
 
Blue is the new red
 
@HyperNeutrino I will find you and do that on your face
 
I'll be waiting for you by my front door.
 
ಠ_ಠ uhhh help creepy person alert
 
12:02 AM
wat
@Christopher Says the person who said "I will find you" ಠ_ಠ
 
ok I'm gonna call a mod or something
 
@DestructibleLemon oh no you won't
 
or just ask you to delet this
 
Or flag it ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
This is a gem. It should never be removed
I mean it is all humor. so flagging will just annoy mods
 
12:03 AM
yeah but which one do I flag
 
And me
Unless you modflag
 
@Christopher tbh if both players play decently, game doesnt end
 
@betseg So use coding and algorithms more
 
@DestructibleLemon none of them lol
It doesn't matter; flagging anything will summon people here and they can deal with it
 
@Christopher like saying win tictactoe
somethings you cant do :P
 
12:05 AM
@betseg I downvoted geobits so anything is possible
Speaking of geobits @geobits are you dead again?
 
> again
The ping doesn't show up even.
 
>aga... ninja'd
> Last seen Jul 25 at 11:25
 
Huh
But no ping
Dennis is not in the room and I can ping him
(not that I will)
 
He is in the room though.
 
maybe last saw the site at that date but not the room?
 
12:07 AM
^
 
Hello
 
@HyperNeutrino oh that is where he is
 
hey
 
@HusnainRaza Hello
 
@HusnainRaza ahhh! you scared me
 
12:07 AM
ಠ_ಠ
Stupid TacoScripts! /o_o
 
Sorry :c
 
^^ not changing that
 
I can ping ataco but he is not in room
 
I'm still tripping on this OEIS challenge
 
@ATaco hyper called your tacoscript stupid
 
12:09 AM
@HyperNeutrino youre probably typing too fast
 
I am lol. It's 500ms and I press enter way faster than that.
 
@HusnainRaza which one
 
Yeah
 
12:12 AM
Stupid SE chat formatting!
(I should stop calling things stupid)
 
i was told that there needs to be a program written to calculate higher values of the sequence
but those values are unknown .-.
 
@HyperNeutrino stop calling things stupid stupid
 
@Christopher Stop stop repeating repeating words words
 
@HyperNeutrino Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo yourself
 
@Christopher English, 2 bytes: no
 
12:14 AM
Idk what to do :'(
 
@HyperNeutrino I got outgolfed in an insult war. kmn
@HusnainRaza ahem answer my koth (worth 100 rep for winning)
 
@Christopher English, 2 bytes: ha
 
@HyperNeutrino ERNGSERHL 1 byte: snerrrphhhahahha
 
@HyperNeutrino that's mean...
 
What's a koth
 
12:16 AM
king of the hill
 
But I want to solve this one :(
 
If you want to try for the bounty answer today
It goes away tomorrow
 
anyone interested in an entirely co-op koth I might be making?
 
There are a maximum of 44 hours remaining.
 
@DestructibleLemon sure
@HyperNeutrino true
but I don't have that kinda time
 
12:19 AM
yeah xD
 

 Cooperative KotH

Is this something that could work on PPCG?
it's probably going to be offsite
 
yyy
 
y? it's out of scope
no objective winning criterion
 
well...
I guess there is one, isn't there
 
12:20 AM
last team standing
 
@totallyhuman hello
 
why is diaper on starboard
 
@Christopher oh no, no competition
there is exactly one team
 
@totallyhuman Check the transcript. I don't really know either...
 
entirely cooperative
 
12:20 AM
longest survivor team
 
all ppcg'rs are on the same team
 
ohh
 
and maybe any puzzling.se guys who want to join
 
make it a popkoth
 
12:21 AM
actually, I think this might be worthy of a meta post
 
a what?
 
> popkoth
 
post on codegolf.meta.stackexchange
 
a what now?
 
@HyperNeutrino not really liking that term
 
12:22 AM
I call dibs on popkoth idea
That is about it
If it crashes and burns blame it on @DestructibleLemon
 
somebody crack this already >.> CnR's after they've lost attention are boring
 
Ooh idea! How about PPCG vs. CR!? We have a KoTH War to determine golfability vs readability! An ultimate deathmatch! (I'll just go back to JHT lol)
 
CR?
OH
MY
 
code review
 
I am about to visit CR
 
12:23 AM
well
 
I will do this
 
no
tr-8r
 
Like legit i am willing to run this and everything
@totallyhuman tr-8r?
 
again, can we discuss this in the room I made for this
 
@DestructibleLemon you have first dibs ofc
 
12:24 AM
5 mins ago, by Destructible Lemon

 Cooperative KotH

Is this something that could work on PPCG?
 
@Christopher pronounce it
 
@totallyhuman ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
@totallyhuman cracked
 
close enough to original solution
class LOL:
    def __init__(self):
        self.lol = True

    def __bool__(self):
        self.lol = not self.lol
        return self.lol

lol = LOL()
 
ಠ_ಠ and caird was complaining about ME saying lol too much!?!?
 
12:29 AM
@HyperNeutrino quiet down young one
 
@Christopher How old are you again?
 
ಠ_ಠ why is putting a code block in a spoiler so hard
 
Because evilness
 
i really liked that cop because P = ¬P
 
12:31 AM
i found it funny :P
 
@HyperNeutrino uhh lol never told anyone
 
P=NP? :P
 
@HyperNeutrino Closed questions cannot be migrated. Migrating a question closes and locks it on the source site.
 
@Christopher Oh I thought you were there during our random off-topic discussion about people's ages :P
 
12:32 AM
psst real logical NOT symbol is ¬
 
@Dennis Oh okay. So you "closing" it was actually the migration?
@totallyhuman psst I know that
Not ! :P
 
Yes.
 
Oh okay. Makes sense.
That seems odd because the only time a question would need to be migrated is if it is off-topic in which case it would be closed... lol
 
@HyperNeutrino I was not
@Dennis hello there.
 
Ah okay. I must have confused you for someone else or just been confused :P
 
12:33 AM
I challenged CR to a KotH battle
 
>!```class LOL:
>!    def __init__(self):
ಠ_ಠ
 
>! No spoilers in chat
 
@Christopher Yes?
 
is that really the best way to put a code block in a spoiler
 
12:34 AM
Not great for multiline...
 
@Dennis Just saying hi
 
For a whole code block I'd link to it elsewhere
 
1
A: Will it halt? (Cops)

totallyhumanPython 3, 35 bytes, cracked def f(o): while bool(o)==bool(o):0 Try it online! Not too hard... Intended solution (ungolfed, 'cause screw it):

it works
it's just very clunky
 
12:48 AM
0
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

HyperNeutrinoWeakened Binary Walls code-golf number binary Given a list of positive integers, we can write them out all above each other like so, for [2, 6, 9, 4] as an example: 0010 0110 1001 0100 We can imagine this as a wall: ..#. .##. #..# .#.. However, this is a very weak wall, and it has collapse...

 
@Dennis you know why my make new room button does not show up?
 
You've been suspended too much.
A moderator (e.g. Dennis) will have to grant you that privilege back manually.
 
I was suspended once
 
SO election is live for people who can vote.
 
Ohh
i think testing out kicks kinda did me in
 
12:52 AM
Sorry, I mean chat kicks/suspensions
 
Welp
 
@Christopher Yeah... I think that might have been the reason.
 
opps
 
yeah it's a rather annoying feature
 
It's only a matter of time before that happens to me :P I've been kicked 4 times; once by Mego, once by trichoplax, and twice by Christopher :P
I think it was twice. I can't quite remember.
 
12:53 AM
guilty
I think we did like 3
 
probably lol
 
we got to the point where one more was mod report
On both rooms iirc
 
Actually, when I kicked you, it sent a moderator notification.
 
Wait
Imma ask tricoplax
he was there.
 
trichoplax dismissed it as quickly as possible but there was a mod notification.
It was fortunate we had a moderator supervising that knew what was going on.
 
12:54 AM
@HyperNeutrino You don't know who it was that kicked you
 
@DJMcMayhem Yeah he does XD
 
you do if they tell you :P
 
we were in a dedicated room for us kicking and moving messages
 
@DJMcMayhem Actually that's true. I just assumed it was the person who trashed my messages. Sorry for the assumptions :P Though I do know that it was trichoplax that kicked me for the emoticons.
I'm not sure Mego was the one but even if so I deserved it xD
 
@trichoplax can you fix not being allowed to make rooms? I have not been able to since we did that whole kick/move message tests
 
12:55 AM
It's a minor pet peeve of mine when people try to pin it on one mod (or RO) when they're generally in agreement with the action. It might as well be the whole mod team
 
True. You can trash my messages about that if you'd like; I can't delete most of them anymore.
 
No need
 
I mean he does know that I kicked him a few times XD
He rejoined so I could kick him!
 
@DJMcMayhem I try to phrase things in terms of "we" sometimes to try to mitigate that. It is annoying
 
Hm. I thought there were special mod flags in chat separate from normal flags but apparently there's only one kind of flag that all 10k users on the domain can see.
 
12:57 AM
@HyperNeutrino Yes there was definitely a mod flag triggered. That's why I deleted the rooms to put an end to the experiment. I don't think it reached anyone though
 
Hopefully not. Nobody came to check what happened.
 
@HyperNeutrino Only mods see mod flags
 
Well we were done anyways. But can you fix that issue?
 
Oh wait. I'm blind.
 
Or will dennis have to
 
12:58 AM
There is a separate chat flag... :P
@Christopher Why would Dennis have to? I don't think chat cares what network you moderate.
 
@HyperNeutrino Idk don't ask me
I am not a mod
 
@Christopher Because y'all were playing with moderation features.
Lifted the ban.
 
Thank you so much
 
That's true. Maybe we shouldn't have been doing that xD Well at least we figured it out :P
 
1:00 AM
is twiddling around with feeds too much playing with RO features? :P
 
@totallyhuman Playing with RO features is fine if it doesn't bother people :P I think
 

 Programming Puzzles and Code Golf VS

This is the KotH challenge room for PPCG vs CR
 
Plot Twist! A CMC appeared! CMC: Given a 2D array of messages, add to each element the product of its index in its row and the index of its row in the array. 1- and 0- indexing are fine and it doesn't need to be consistent between the row and column indices.
 
test case pls this bork me brain
 
Test Case: [[1, 2, 3], [4, 5], [6]] -> [[2, 3, 4], [6, 9], [9]] (1-indexed)
 
1:06 AM
6 bytes: moved to Trash
 
I have a 56-bit Jelly solution.
 
bite not byte. Jelly is in bites
 
How does that work
 
no it's nibbles
 
@trichoplax Sorry but I typo'd my bytecount :c
 
1:07 AM
anyway so there wasn't that much discussion about my coop koth, so if anyone wants to actually help me come up with the challenge spec and stuff they can do that
 
@HyperNeutrino It wasn't aimed at you - it was just 6 messages :)
 
I know, but it happened to be the same so I felt like letting you know in case you were trying to make the messages related :P xD
 
@DestructibleLemon Does it have a sandbox post linked to the chat?
 
my chat search bar is yellow currently ಠ_ಠ
 
no sandbox yet
at this point a meta post is a good starting point
 
1:09 AM
@totallyhuman were you searching for something ಠ_ಠ
 
yes ಠ_ಠ
 
lol k
 
@DestructibleLemon Sandboxing is slow at the best of times, and this is a difficult concept to get started with, so mutually linked chat room and sandbox post might be a good way to leave it to gradually gather comments over time
 
wait no i don't want an emoji in my code page
no no no nothing should be an emoji
 
@totallyhuman #emojimovie
 
1:10 AM
@StepHen 0% rotten tomatoes
 
@trichoplax ok... but I'm not sure if it's on topic on site
 
they really nailed it
 
@totallyhuman 6% :P
 
somebody give me a unicode character that's not an emoji that looks like 🔄
@StepHen was 0% :P
 
@DestructibleLemon You made that clear in the chat room, so if you make it clear in the sandbox post hopefully people can take that into account in the discussion. So they can say things like "it would be on topic if you made it this way, or that way would need to be off site". Maybe.
 
1:12 AM
maybe we should check on meta whether you're allowed to sandbox offtopic things
 
that's what the sandbox is for
 
anyway, would you mind helping me with the meta post?
@totallyhuman no... it's usually for ontopic things
 
it's for proposed challenges that might or might not be suitable
the purpose of the sandbox is to get rid of the latter
 
It's fine for finding out whether something could be on topic. I wouldn't recommend the sandbox for something you have no intention of posting to main, but if you're in two minds then it seems the right place for it
 
1:14 AM
@DestructibleLemon Since sandbox is a meta post, we need a meta-meta-PPCG to ask that. xD /s
 
@totallyhuman ↻ or 🗘
 
wherps i have an intify but i don't have a floatify
@StepHen second one doesn't render for me (congratulations, you have succeeded in finding a character that a flippin chromebook doesn't have the fonts for)
first one's probably gonna be rotate
 
is there an efficient way to implement operator precedence in a PEMDAS lang?
but it looks like a circle with the top and bottom missing so idk
 
oh huh that's a good one by the picture
 
@StepHen parsing probably
 
1:16 AM
but the fact that it doesn't render for me is a no no :c
 
@DestructibleLemon Atm I have like 3 function calls for three layers of precendence, but I want to implement more layers, more functions or is there a better way?
 
yeah... you can probably make that into the parser
make it parse it into a lisp style thing even
 
I dunno what you're trying to tell me
 
i could use the recycle character
lol
 
@totallyhuman what is this for again?
 
1:26 AM
string replace
 
Use the replacement character: �
(that's supposed to be a question mark on a black diamond fyi)
 
0
Q: So, I may have just challenged Code Review to a death battle

ChristopherErrr. I just challenged Code Review to a death KotH battle. Hyper Neutrino thought that informing you would be a good idea. The meta post for code review and the chatroom Currently the plan is to have each side have a team and build resources and a base. Limited resources. The last team standing...

 
Should I validate arg lengths for golfing functions? Aka, is there any reason anybody would want to add extra (useless) arguments to a function?
 
Are you asking whether golfers will sometimes abuse language features?
 
@StepHen :P
 
1:41 AM
@trichoplax I'm asking whether allowing useless, unused arguments to be passed to a function will ever be useful
so more or less yes
 
Can't hurt I think
 
@Christopher what's the purpose of this edit?
 
@NathanMerrill It needed a bump. I wanted to actually know
 
@Christopher you don't edit just to bump 0.o
 
@StepHen o. i dum
 
1:43 AM
@Christopher I actually asked a similar question. Martin posted a fantastic response...let me find it
 
@NathanMerrill k
 
@StepHen It was a jokey question, as that's what golfers are known for. If leaving out validation doesn't have an obvious benefit, people may still find the non-obvious ones. Unless it causes a problem to not validate, I'd avoid validation and see what people find
 
aha!
12
Q: Why do we have objective winning criteria?

Nathan Merrill2 years ago, we discussed dropping the objective winning criterion requirement. No consensus was really reached. I'd really like to start that conversation again, as I feel like it is hindering our growth into a more comprehensive site. What advantages/disadvantages are there to having objecti...

 
@trichoplax okey dok, makes sense, thanks
> Objective scoring is essential to drive competition, and competition inspires creativity.
This is so true
 
CMC: Given a directory, determine how many files are in that directory. The directory may contain other directories, which should not be counted.
 
1:45 AM
I suspect many of the rules for making a good golfing language are opposite to what makes for a good production language
5
 
Not neccesarrily. Perl manages to be both.
 
@trichoplax Well... the following is an excerpt from my interpreter:
try:
    programs = get_tree(cq_source)
except SyntaxError:
    programs = get_tree(":" + cq_source)
 
oi quit bashing on perl
 
except SyntaxError ಠ_ಠ
 
@Phoenix perl is basically 50/50. it follows 50% of the golfing rules and 50% of the production rules
 
1:47 AM
@totallyhuman I'm not
 
@Phoenix Well... if anything's screwed up in the program, it probably doesn't have a mode, so add a mode and see what happens :P
 
@totallyhuman i pressed some random buttons and it worked as a perl script
 
But everything inside the try block is valid syntax.
 
@betseg there needs to be an esolang where a program that is random buttons will do something
 
@StepHen If you really want to get the most out of a few bytes, you could have exceptions but make them do something useful. So giving a different number of arguments does something completely different without having to use a new letter
 
1:49 AM
Get_tree presumably raises syntax error
 
@Phoenix who says that get_tree doesn't parse syntax?
 
Good point
 
there's a SyntaxError raise somewhere in it, although I dunno if that's good practice or not
 
Which is probably not good practise
Ninja'd
 
you don't necessarily need to manually raise a SyntaxError
 
1:49 AM
raise SyntaxError is godawful practice, I assume.
 
you can put an import in a function
or you can eval a string
 
prolly, but I raise it if I read an unknown or invalid token
CodeReview will yell at me if/when I ever put this interpreter up there
although they'll have bigger things to yell at me for, I think
 
always prefer custom exceptions, as it allows you to differentiate between the two
 
What if you mess up and get an actual syntax error?
 
like, the error of "The parser code isn't formatted correctly" is different from the "The code I'm parsing isn't formatted correctly"
 
1:52 AM
@Phoenix Then I just try the same thing with a colon appended to the source code :P
 
Mm, ,,, literally has an UnknownCommand exception
 
and if that fails then I fail
 
But you won't realize that your python code is wrong.
You might just assume the whatever you're get_treeing is wrong.
 
@Phoenix I should, I'll run the exact same code again so theoretically it'll catch the error again
but you're all right, I should implement custom exceptions when I get around to it
 
And then you have C#, which comes bundled with actually hundreds of builtin exception types.
 
1:54 AM
I'm personally against the practice of trying to fix syntax
@Phoenix do they recommend using them, or are they all used internally?
 
Oh, I didn't realize custom exceptions were this easy:
704
A: Proper way to declare custom exceptions in modern Python?

gahooaMaybe I missed the question, but why not: class MyException(Exception): pass Edit: to override something (or pass extra args), do this: class ValidationError(Exception): def __init__(self, message, errors): # Call the base class constructor with the parameters it needs ...

brb
 
@NathanMerrill A lot of them, sure, use them. ArgumentOutOfBoundsException is a common one
 
Java's got a boatload too
 
Yep
 
oh, when I started coding it was in VB
and VB has two different exceptions for type conversion errors depending on if you typecast or use convert functions
confused the crap out of 15 year old me
 
1:58 AM
@StepHen Well your problem is that 15 year old you was using VB.NET
 
@Phoenix I was a non-knowledgeable 15 year old learning how to program at a public-school-paid-for technical school. What choice did I have? :P
 

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