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5:00 PM
@KritixiLithos not mutually exclusive with you being one
 
Tell me more about this No you're the robot.
 
(Insert pun about web cookies here)
 
@Geobits Tell was not expected at this time
^^
 
But does it seem like an intresting challenge?
 
@MistahFiggins Uncaught SyntaxError: Unexpected token ^
 
5:03 PM
2>/dev/null
guys I need your advice on this >_>
 
@ГригорийПерельман I'd actually lower the number and the memory restrictions.
That way, you can have answers that finish and still have the interesting problem
 
Have you seen the ones where they do it by cutting metal with a laser?
 
Yes
 
5:11 PM
@NathanMerrill But then I'd have to be really careful to make sure that I pick numbers such that I don't provide enough memory to hold the entire thing at once, but enough memory to run the program. Getting it wrong means the challenge is either trivial or impossible, and I don't want to try that.
 
@MistahFiggins He made Still Alive with a laser too
 
oh, go on the safe side of picking a number that is too large
 
@TuxCopter Yeah, and also a megaman one IIRC
 
like, you shouldn't make it a requirement that the program finishes before the end of the universe
but hopefully within the realm of possibility
Like, if you put a memory restriction of 1 MB or something, and ask for a number bigger than 2^1,000,000
 
(((((5^6)^7)^8)^9)^10)^11?
Only 232506 digits.
Gets calculated the normal way in less then a second.
What do you think a good memory requirement would be?
Adding on ^12 is taking it quite a while, I think I found a good spot.
@NathanMerrill ?
 
5:19 PM
I'm doing math
 
log2() of that
is 9.3x10^6
so, you need at least that many bytes to represent it
 
So, let's say you get 3 KiBs to work with, not counting any memory that the interpreter just uses by existing.
Does that seem reasonable?
 
the number actually requires 9 megabytes to represent
so, it simply depends on how strict you want to make it
 
Alright, I'll post later today. Thanks!
 
5:23 PM
doing it in unary would be a piece of cake
 
I'd be careful about "don't count memory the interpreter uses". I'm not sure that's possible to define in an objective way
 
I would likely still add it
 
but sandbox it just to make sure
 
5:23 PM
I'll look at what they did.
 
Oh, they use a Big O notation restriction rather than a number.
 
you could still do it in a fixed-amount sort of way. Like, only allow them a couple of boolean variables, and an fixed-sized array of 32-bit integers
and maybe a couple of floating integers for swaps and such
 
I'll think about it, I gtg now.
o/
 
o/
 
5:40 PM
Is it weird if docs are hardcoded into a header file?
It feels kinda... Wrong, idk why though
 
Isn't that how javadoc et al. work?
 
It's also weird since I don't really like having a 400 character string defined on one line, but manually spacing them out seems like too much work for too little benefit
Idk, it's just that everything I can think of feels weird
5
I don't know why that got starred, but I guess I don't mind either
2
 
0
Q: Why do we quote codegolf in "bytes" over say "chars"?

westonA single 05AB1E char can't fit in a single 8-bit byte (259 commands I think), whereas BF only has 8 commands, so 3 bits per char, 2.5 BF commands per byte. I'm not suggesting we change the judging rules but why do we incorrectly use the language of bytes, and not chars?

 
@MistahFiggins 10/10
 
5:55 PM
@Downgoat your Cheddar interpreter is a bit broken:
 ~  cheddar
cheddar> help

Welcome to Cheddar!

If you are using Cheddar for the first time, we reccomend following
the getting started guide at: cheddar.vihan.org/quickstart
Documentation is availale at: docs.cheddar.vihan.org

The following commands are available:

   exit  - exits the REPL
   help  - outputs this
   clear - clears the screen

cheddar> exit

Runtime Error: Attempted to access undefined variable `exit`
 
@DJMcMayhem Because when out of context it's beautiful
 
The interpreter then proceeds to indefinitely wait for input while doing nothing and has to be killed with ^C
 
i left my pc, it suspended itself, i opened it, and now the screen resolution is 1024x768 instead of 1920x1080 :D
 
o_O
@betseg you can also no onebox with the gallery link
 
TIL, thx
 
6:05 PM
Win10 here. Never happened to me. My OS only resizes semi-maximized windows, not the screen
 
never happened to me before, too. thats why i posted it. it turned back after rebooting btw
 
@betseg Your PC's is windows too, right? (but running Ubuntu)
 
Arch Linux, desktop environment is GNOME on X.org
 
@betseg install these, they'll significantly improve your chat experience.
 
Ah, I've never known of any computer with Linux pre-installed
 
6:12 PM
@KritixiLithos my computer had nothing preinstalled, some dell laptops are ubuntu preinstalled
 
Any one in here know 05AB1E?
I'm curious how many commands there are
 
Yeah, but that lists two-char also
 
@ГригорийПерельман i did, fonts look cooler now, also i see some highlighting, how to use the shortcuts?
 
6:16 PM
/tableflip
(ノ°Д°)ノ︵ ┻━┻
/$\LaTeX$
 
can you not post that stuff?
 
if you want to test it out use sandbox
 
I'm demonstrating, not testing
@betseg You can look at the userscript's code to see all the commands.
 
@ГригорийПерельман doesn't matter
 
6:17 PM
@ГригорийПерельман yes i saw those, just asked how
 
Yeah, prepend /. Doesn't work if there is anything else on the line tho
 
6:36 PM
wtf is with my spanish textbook
> La instalación utiliza Dancing Hamster Toys modificados, fabricados originalmente por Gemmy Industries Corporation.
 
sponsorship?
 
"The installation uses modified Dancing Hamster Toys, originally made by Gemmy Industries Corporation"
@JanDvorak i dunno
this is the same one that had "rheumatism" as like the 10th vocab word
 
closes Riker's textbook as unclear
 
Feb 27 at 22:17, by Riker
> smallpox
> coffin
> bullfrog
> witch
> virus
> rabies
> rheumatism
> noumenon
> epistemology
> pessimistic
> fallibilism
 
those are really useful words, you know
 
6:37 PM
such useful
I mean eveyrbody needs "noumenon"
 
i dont even know that that word means
 
a thing that is distinct in itself, from kantian philosophy
> nou·me·non
ˈno͞oməˌnän/Submit
noun
(in Kantian philosophy) a thing as it is in itself, as distinct from a thing as it is knowable by the senses through phenomenal attributes.
 
lol
 
@AdmBorkBork well done. /claps
 
this again? :-(
 
Okx
lol
 
7:21 PM
@MartinEnder Welcome to PPCG!
 
thank you!
 
7:35 PM
FYI: The bounties ad image no longer displays. I tried changing it from // to https:// (I edited it, and it said it needs to be changed to that), but that didn't fix it.
Is the hosting website down?
 
imma say no
fixed for me, just made a blank edit
(i.e. hit edit -> cancel)
@mbomb007 prolly just caching for your old bit
 
is it just me or are the wikipedia donation banners more obnoxious than ever?
 
@orlp Idk. I bet if they go out of business, everyone will wish they gave money.
 
@orlp not just you
 
@orlp It used to be liked that a coupla' weeks ago. But those banners are gone for me right now
 
7:41 PM
@ATaco have you noticed this about your country?
user image
11
 
OOH, that's a new one
 
what is a natural way to convert a dyck word into a grouping of binary operators?
e.g. for n pairs of parenthesis:
((())) ()(()) ()()() (())() (()())
there will always be the same number of ways you can group n+1 elements with a binary operator:
((ab)c)d (a(bc))d (ab)(cd) a((bc)d) a(b(cd))
what is an elegant way to make this mapping?
 
Android crashes on boot when running from SD card https://t.co/umn0mWjoZl
just guess the video
 
just saw that :P
 
ooh, it's this kind of click bait :-)
 
7:52 PM
oh btw Android O Developer Preview 1 is out
 
We didn't need the onebox, thank you
 
@Mendeleev is imgur blocked for you?
 
Image found. Dithering found, too.
 
7:54 PM
yes
 
then why bother saying that
I can't do anything about it
 
rehost please?
nm
I can do it mysef
 
@Mendeleev basically a little robot android toy, running away from an sd card, crashing into a boot (footwear)
 
@betseg :)
 
Anyways ... I'm off to watching a Let's player murder me horribly in Xenonauts.
 
7:56 PM
@Riker Filmed on a potato looking through a screen door?
 
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
8:15 PM
@Riker I've noticed it's 7 in the morning
 
Ugh, here's where I don't really like having a hammer
 
sorry if I woke you o_O
@DJMcMayhem :(
 
Nah I'm on my way to work
 
There's a question marked as Duplicate in the CV review queue, and I kinda agree, but not quite enough to hammer it myself, but I don't want to not vote on it...
(the SIGBUS one)
It's already been hammered twice so far
 
congratulations to @Dennis on 2^17 rep!
8
 
8:17 PM
Did you mean 2**17?
 
no, pow(2, 17)
 
@betseg Pshh, that's not that big of a deal. I passed 19 rep years ago. :P
 
Nah, Math.pow(2, 17)
 
I think you mean YH#
 
[system.math]::pow(2,17)
 
8:19 PM
actually, 2^17 does give 131072 in bc
 
@MartinEnder show-off :P
 
how about 1<<17?
 
@DJMcMayhem It's definitely a duplicate.
 
I think you all mean
mov ax, 1
shl ax, 17
 
Yeah, I just hammered
 
8:20 PM
wait
wrong window
2
 
good thing that didn't require your password...
 
dennis and martin have more than 2^18 rep in total
 
^^ 2 ** 17
 
@MartinEnder I have NOPASSWD set in sudo
 
8:21 PM
CMC: Calculate 2**17 in the weirdest way possible
@Mendeleev ...
 
@Mendeleev why >_>
 
@betseg this is rather unsurprising if we both have more than 2^17 :P
 
@MartinEnder I actually did end up leaking my password in chat once. I ended up changing it to *******
 
you mean "hunter2"?
 
8:22 PM
^
 
@Riker OMG, how did you get my password? I thought that the chat room hid it.
 
@TuxCopter $a=1;1..17|%{$a=$a-shl1};$a
 
@TuxCopter If someone can access my computer, and can figure out the main user password (very long), I have root login disabled and ssh set to key only, and I always lock it when I leave.
 
26 secs ago, by Mendeleev
@TuxCopter If someone can access my computer, and can figure out the main user password (very long), I have root login disabled and ssh set to key only, and I always log out when I leave.
 
8:23 PM
@AdmBorkBork PowerShell do not have -=?
 
@TuxCopter Sure it does, but the - is the -shiftleft operator, not "minus"
 
ah
 
Well PowerShell is weirder than expected
 
@Mendeleev but still
it's not htat hard to type a password
 
8:25 PM
@TuxCopter 31^^4cc4
 
@Riker my password is 22 characters long
 
@Riker but it's hard to type that
 
so?
 
EVERY TIME I mess it up. I just want to copy a file dammit
 
if it's a password for a computer you use often
 
8:27 PM
@TuxCopter I do like how $a-----$b is valid, though
 
@MartinEnder virtual cookies for the first person to figure out the language
 
then i'd imagine eventually you'd be typing it without so many mistakes
 
@AdmBorkBork In most languages it is valid
 
@Mendeleev why do you need sudo to copy a file
 
unless you also rotate it once a month
 
8:27 PM
@Mendeleev mine is 32 1v1 me m8
 
a - (-(-(-(-(-(-b)))))
 
@Poke It's not a forgetting thing, or typing it incorrectly. It's usually my fingers just landing between two keys
@Riker To /usr/local/bin
 
then type sudo password
 
@Riker Cool
 
@TuxCopter you mean a-b?
 
8:28 PM
@TuxCopter Not in PowerShell. It's parsed as ($a--) - (--$b)
 
@Mendeleev i hate that
 
@AdmBorkBork ... oh
 
@Riker Is there any argument against setting NOPASSWD for sudo group?
 
well
 
which is one reason i use a password manager for everything i can
 
8:28 PM
@Mendeleev it's unsafe if somebody accesses your computer
it's to prevent you from doing a stupid
 
@Riker How would they access my computer?
 
@TuxCopter its parsed like that in almost all langs that support prefixes/suffixes
 
@Mendeleev ssh
 
@Riker Set to key only
 
gtg, see ya, bbl
 
oops i accidentally pasted sudo [redacted] and it removed my root filesystem
 
@betseg I have zsh which protects against that by not executing until you press enter
 
0
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Martin EnderDeranged !Combinatorics: Compute the Subfactorial code-golfcombinatoricspermutationsnumber-theory The subfactorial or rencontres numbers (A000166) are a sequence of numbers similar to the factorial numbers which show up in the combinatorics of permutations. In particular the nth subfactorial !n...

 
Or there could be "oops I accidentally pasted sudo [redacted] and it bricked my motherboard's UEFI firmware by deleting all the EFI variables"
 
8:33 PM
$ sudo rm -rf /
rm: it is dangerous to operate recursively on '/'
rm: use [redacted] to override this failsafe
nope zsh doesnt protect unless you put *
 
@betseg Why redact it?
@betseg Yes it does. Paste a multiline command into zsh, it won't run it, you can edit it and then press enter
Or it might just be omz
 
@Mendeleev because it removes the root filesystem
@Mendeleev i meant like if you didnt know what the command does and pasted randomly
 
@betseg and? --no-preserve-root is a command line flag, it doesn't do anything by itself
@betseg I usually don't do that
 
@Mendeleev it does if you put it next to the actual command
 
@betseg yeah, but it doesn't in the context where you used it
 
8:36 PM
@Mendeleev last note from mobile: never hurts to have more security
 
@Riker True.
 
 
@Mendeleev that thread in the arch forum was fun tho
 
@betseg What thread?
I only see vague references to it
 
it was discovered by an arch user and they posted it in arch forums blaming arch for it
 
@betseg link?
 
removed
 
@Riker groans
 
oic
 
@Mendeleev you can see if youre an arch forums user: bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=207549
 
8:42 PM
@JanDvorak What was the image? imgur is blocked in school
@betseg I am, thanks
 
CMC: Given 2 bots (Natty and Firewall) write a chat message that will keep them pinging each other

`say` is the command to get them to say something
 
say say say say say infinitely ?
 
It has to be finite
Idk if this is possible
 
Doesn't seems possible
 
Yeah that is what I thought
 
8:55 PM
I do plan on eventually taking DLosc's comment into consideration but do any of you have any other thoughts about this challenge that I have in the sandbox?
 
@PhiNotPi what ratios have you managed so far?
 
@Mendeleev the first one was "Airbender" with a pic of bender from futurama jumpshotting
second was about 6 of them, with 5 crossed out
 
Spoofing the "Air Jordan" logo
 
leaving 1 last airbender
 
The only thing "air jordan" reminds me of is a massive spam wave I helped stave off
 
9:24 PM
Rep-capped thanks to ArnoldC \o/
 
Besides alphanumerics, what printable ascii chars are allowed in file/folder names in pretty much all major OSes? _-. at least?
 
space should count, unless you count DOS
 
Linux (ext4) allows everything except "/", ".", "..", and \0 (null)
 
@JanDvorak you can have spaces in DOS file names iirc
 
but only eight of them
 
9:31 PM
C:\Users\Conor O'Brien\Documents\Programming\ppr
λ echo test > "a b c d e f g h i j k l m n o p.txt"

C:\Users\Conor O'Brien\Documents\Programming\ppr
λ type "a b c d e f g h i j k l m n o p.txt"
test

C:\Users\Conor O'Brien\Documents\Programming\ppr
λ
 
Spaces can be awkward though, requiring quotes around filename
 
0
Q: C# code that runs for exactly 60 seconds?

BlueChippyI'm looking for some help in a challenge to set some of my coders (for a charity challenge). I want to run a C# console app for 60 seconds and then terminate. The coders need to have a way of writing their code so that it can execute independently of the "timer", so threaded possibly? I'm usin...

 
user image
2
 
9:47 PM
@ConorO'Brien y tho
 
why what?
 
@ConorO'Brien Windows
 
why do you use <insert your OS here>?
 
@ConorO'Brien Linux because it is open, customizable, can run most Windows programs
 
and all of those contribute to what?
 
9:52 PM
Windows because it can run most windows programs
 
@ConorO'Brien Windows cause I'm lazy
 
lol this wasn't a poll but ok
 
@ConorO'Brien linux because I bought my computer without an os and linux is easier than windows to install
 
@Mendeleev my argument is, all of those attributes you listed contribute to your enjoyment and efficiency on that system. I quite enjoy windows, and we don't need to start a holy war about operating systems.
 
@ConorO'Brien Windows because I'm lazy
 
9:55 PM
@ConorO'Brien True
 
I think that Linux is a better suited for software development than Windows, which is unreliable, uncustomizable and lacks a proper text mode ui. But of course it depends on what you are used to.
 
Okx
Windows is very restrictive
But I use it anyway because I can't be bothered
 
I'd like to make the switch to Fedora, but I'm worried about not being able to use all the software I'd like to.
And Hardware, I've got a Vive and I'm not sure about how compatible it is.
 
I have used Linux most of my life and I have never needed any windows program that wouldn't run on wine.
But games and such are more problematic than normal programs. I don't really play computer games, so I haven't needed to run them on Linux.
 
I think it's quite reliable, and customizable . then again, I know nothing else
 
10:07 PM
I play games on Linux natively.
About 20 games from steam
 
Of course there are Linux games (I played Team Fortress some time ago), but the most popular names are usually not supported.
 
I have no idea how to write up an Explanation for a TacO program.
 
@ATaco separate it into parts
 
0
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

mEQ5aNLrK3lqs3kfSa5HbvsTWe0nIuMoles with SOCKS?! code-golf internet networking Many applications that depend on network resources (such as games connecting to game servers) do not allow the user to set a proxy. There are a lot of ways to force the usage of a proxy regardless, I personally have always been a fan of a local S...

 
It's 2D and Branching.
 
10:10 PM
yes
 
2 of the most played/viewed/biggest prize pooled games are available on Linux
 
@ConorO'Brien About customization: To change the UI on Linux, you can just install a different desktop environment like Gnome, Xface or KDE (all of them have different themes). In Windows, you can't really change the UI.
 
oh lol I personally would never want to do that
 
I know many people who argue about Windows looking better than Mac Os and vice versa. Then I just think: if you'd use Linux, you could choose whatever you want. It is even possible to make Linux UI to replicate Windows or Apple.
 
so... I should use linux because I can make it like windows. seems legit
 
10:19 PM
no, he's saying that the aesthetic argument is bad
I have linux on my computer but I don't use it. it was a real pain to get working because the broadcom chip isn't open source so I needed to install that, but I couldn't connect to the internet because no ethernet port
 
Ugh broadcom
 
> Anonymous function. Takes two strings as input and returns a function which takes a string as input and returns a string as output as output.
 
TBH it was more due to the trend of thinning computers
 
I like programmatic English
 
@DestructibleLemon you could usb tether with your phone
 
10:22 PM
Well, doesn't matter anyway because it did get working but I don't really feel like using linux that much
OSX has bash and stuff
 
function(a,b) return function(c) return a..b..c end end
That follows that spec in Lua.
 
Linux has a big problem with drivers too
 
No, not really actually
 
("Hello, ","World")("!") will return "Hello, World!"
 
Except broadcom and amd
 
10:24 PM
For example with my old computer (which was on Linux) I couldn't use the WiFi card
 
@TuxCopter did you even try fixing it?
 
And amd drivers are getting better
 
@ATaco You see, I was doing a challenge, and argument currying made it shorter
 
Yeah
 
@TuxCopter do you not have ethernet either?
 
10:24 PM
Argument currying is never shorter in lua :(
 
Yes I had ethernet
But the WiFi wouldn't work
 
Was the chip of the wifi card broadcom?
 
I don't remember
It was a Realtek IIRC
 
@Lembik nothing spectacular
 
Or something like that
 
10:27 PM
Most of my effort has gone into finding matrices with additional properties
 
you should have tried asking some linux people
on the internet
at least you wouldn't have had to keep switching OS
 
Realtek was pita for me until I got it set up, then it just worked for 3 years.
Very Large Telescope, Extremely Large Telescope, Overwhelmingly Large Telescope
Name of the telescope gets larger as the telescope gets larger
 
Fun fact: Multiplying/dividing IEEE 754 floating point numbers is easier than adding/subtracting them
 
10:46 PM
@Downgoat the ppcg graduation script stopped working for me (firefox)
 
^ For me too
 
Works fine for me, What version of FF are you running?
 
I'm using the last stable version (52.0.1 32-bits)
 
Ah, I'm running 51.0.1
 
So the last version of FF borked the PPCG userscript
huh
 
10:55 PM
I need to update my FF, see if it breaks any of my userscripts...
 

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