« first day (2524 days earlier)      last day (2317 days later) » 
00:00 - 21:0021:00 - 00:00

9:01 PM
@NH. it's just javascript with a custom "library" added on. as valid as any other such thing.
more importantly than it being valid, the existence of the site will increase submissions significantly :)
 
@Mr.Xcoder you can remove the starting quote for 10 bytes
 
Is there an easy/simple/short way to convert an arbitrary length binary list to base36?
 
9:23 PM
@NieDzejkob ay you contribute to emojicode
 
Hey, what was the name of that Finnish Programming language I've been seeing>
 
röda
 
No, it was two words.
 
@ZacharĂ˝ Tampio?
 
That's it, thanks!
 
9:29 PM
two words 🤔
 
I remember it having two words in some submissions with it
 
i found 4 "imperative tampio"s
 
That's it!
 
Somehow, Tampio sounds like a female hygiene product to me.
 
... not just you
It's not just you
 
9:35 PM
in turkish "tam" means "exact" and "o" means "it", so it sounds like "it's exactly pi!" to me
 
...
Only pi is exactly pi
 
@ZacharĂ˝ True, but the exact value of pi is slowly drifting due to leap seconds
 
... I'll just LEAP on out of here in a ton of SECONDS.
 
Metric or Imperial?
 
@DJMcMayhem is dis xkcd
 
9:39 PM
(Even though seconds don't have weight)
 
@Îźurous Metric, obviously
Who measures pi in imperial?
 
Tons, he was talking about tons!
 
these answer scores tho
 
9358, woah
 
@betseg No, it's from my brain
 
9:43 PM
0? wtf
 
@WheatWizard thanks for the edit (and for the golf)
 
No problem
It's been a long time since I python golfed, so its pretty fun to come back for a bit
 
@betseg ok fixed after type casting
wtf
 
10:11 PM
I know it hasn't been too long, but any thoughts:
0
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Wheat WizardTitle needed Your task is to print the text Greetings, Earth!, with every letter repeated in place as many times as the most frequent byte in your code. For example if your code was print p Since p appears twice you would need to print GGrreeeettiinnggss,, EEaarrtthh!! This is code-golf ...

 
@WheatWizard Have fun doing that in brain-flak! :P
Or unary
 
I've been thinking about it in Brain-Flak
It might be pretty hard.
The best way would be to come up with a way to make the string for arbitrary n and then find the smallest n that works
 
Just to verify, Try it online! is a valid solution, right?
 
Looks like it.
 
Try it online! is too, but same score
Although IGr²etings, EaRTH!<esc>3h4~ or IGr²etings, EaRTH!<esc>v3h~ are one shorter
This is a fun task
 
@WheatWizard The tiebreaker should be least repeats
 
Another thing I was just thinking :)
 
Cool :)
 
When you say more repeated letters do you mean more of the most common letters or more distinct letters that are repeated?
 
Let me rephrase entirely
Tie-breaker should be the length of the output :)
 
10:23 PM
I meant for changing the string
 
(lower is better)
oic
"Greetings, Earth!" has 2 e's, a's, t's, and r's. There should be a letter that is repeated 3-4 times, and maybe a couple more letters that are 2 times
I'm not positive that would make it better, but it would definitely make it slightly harder
 
I think that's valid.
 
I think it would make it better. Now I just need to come up with a string that has those properties but is not jibberish
 
@ATaco I see 3 'r's
 
Yeah, just spotted it myself.
Same score, RProgN 2, 27 bytes Try It Online!
 
10:26 PM
I should probably make a verifier.
 
@WheatWizard Alternate scoring proposal: Length of output + length of code
That way, you have an incentive to minimize the output length too
 
@xnor that domino challenge came to me in a dream this morning :)
 
I tried that, but it turns into minimize output length with code-golf as a tie breaker.
 
@WheatWizard Sure, but IMO minimizing the output length is more interesting/unique task then repeat each character n times in the fewest bytes
 
@DJMcMayhem What do you think of Good morning, Green orb!
 
10:28 PM
Maybe there's a way to incentivize both, idk
 
As shown with my RProgN2 answer, there's not much reason to optimize as it is.
 
How the crap do you spell incentivize?
 
I feel like it's not too hard to do it without repeating in most languages.
 
I can't get rid of the red squiggly
 
You are spelling it correctly
 
10:30 PM
@DJMcMayhem with an "s" if you have a british dictionary
 
@WheatWizard đź‘Ť
 
Good morning, Green orb has 4o,3r, 3n, 2e, 2G
 
I should probably stop answering this, as it is a planned challenge.
 
Ugh. Dictionary compression
 
@WheatWizard Mississippi river
 
10:32 PM
@DJMcMayhem New rule: No-dictionary compression. (and no builtins) :P
 
Bookkeeper
 
@WheatWizard builtins? Isn't it impossible without builtins?
 
@WheatWizard Please never ban built ins, it hurts a taco.
 
I want there to be a standard for banning builtins not shared by X% of languages in common use on the site
 
@Adám I don't even know what builtin means in this context.
 
10:34 PM
Don't ban builtins, unless it's a super specific builtin, in which case only Mathematica will suffer
 
@Sparr Impossible to specify.
 
I feel like if you need to ban builtins, it's the challenge that's at fault. And don't forget to not upvote trivial answers.
 
having a builtin for "take an array, multiply it times its transposed self, find the greatest sum of an offset diagonal, then divide the original array by that value" is ridiculous
 
@DJMcMayhem How about length of code * max repeated element?
 
@Sparr Of course, but if your langauge already had the foresight to have that, then well...
 
10:35 PM
I feel like the ongoing development of the golfing languages to include more and more builtins to mostly-solve common elements of challenges is driving some people away from the site. (I'm one of them)
 
Unless it's mathematica, in which case the built in is longer than the jelly solution anyway.
 
@Sparr Just stick to non-golfing languages.
 
Personally, I get a lot more enjoyment out of this site for writing my own languages and competing with them.
 
@ATaco it's mostly not foresight. stuff like that seems to get added most often just after a challenge or two requires it, then it looks like foresight when the third such challenge appears
 
Trivial solution in APL: 2/'Greetings, Earth!'
 
10:36 PM
@Sparr Can't really prevent that without challenges getting more creative.
 
working on it :)
 
and 5/'Missisippi river'
 
Personally I find challenges should be as pure as possible, so if five challenges in a row demand a particular set of input validation, then you can expect languages and golfers to eventually have countermeasures for it.
 
I felt dissuaded from posting my domino challenge when I realized it was less trivial than most, and would thus get fewer answers.
 
@WheatWizard Sure
 
10:37 PM
I think the site is seeing a lot fewer high-effort challenges today than it was a year or two ago.
maybe absolutely, definitely proportionally
cookie cutter challenges lead to more languages adding features for that particular shape of cookie, which leads to more people using those languages, more answers on those challenges. that leads to more such challenges as challenge-writers enjoy more answers and get dissuaded by few answers.
 
Personally, as I said before, I prefer more pure challenges. It feels a bit pointless to me to challenge someone to do mutliple complex tasks in the same challenge. Koths and such however I prefer a certain level of complexity.
 
I do not like this feedback loop
 
And you can hardly say my languages such as Funky, ARBLE, or RProgN2 are cookie cutters.
Nor is Jelly.
Jelly isn't powerful because it's a Cookie cutter, it's powerful because it's not.
 
a lot of stuff in jelly seems to have been written with cookie cutter challenges in mind
 
Although it seems to be, it's just because it's a Tacit language that's fairly list focused, which is quite powerful as J and APL show.
 
10:41 PM
I would be interested in seeing a meta analysis of how well the languages from this community do on challenges from other code golf communities.
like, solve a dozen challenges in Jelly and Python here and compare the relative sizes of the solutions
 
All my languages were designed with my own personal enjoyment in mind, rather than solving challenges. Although RProgN2 is particularly good at Quining.
 
then do the same for a dozen ACM or UVA problems, and see if the average ratio is different
 
Many community written languages share that mentallity, like Brainflak, Charcoal, and V..
 
@ATaco Well, clearly Jelly has some cookie cutter builtins, like qwerty and vowels with and without y, etc.
 
Yeah, I can't deny that much.
 
10:43 PM
@ATaco Which mentality?
 
Writing for fun rather than golfing.
 
Charcoal definitely does not give off that vibe :P
 
Actually yeah, Charcoal was created with Ascii-art challenges in mind...
But Brainflak, Definitely.
 
I don't think V quite fits either. The goal was to make vim better at golfing
 
@ATaco Indeed, when Jelly doesn't have a cookie cutter advantage, it generally scores only about 30% better than APL and about 50% shorter than J (due to J mostly using 2-byte builtins).
 
10:45 PM
Although brain-flak definitely. I greatly enjoy using it even though it'll never win a
 
I thought V was written just to sort of Unify the concept of golfing in vim, rather than golfing in particular.
 
I'm not sure what you mean by Unify the concept of golfing in vim, but it was really made because vim has some useful concepts that take way too many bytes. I thought that if you could use the concepts without the massive byte costs, you'd have a fun to use and unusual golfing language
So I compressed regexes and made shortcuts for things that were obnoxious in vim
 
@DJMcMayhem Don't be so sure, if it's the only answer it might win.
 
I was amazed when Funky won something.
 
And recently it's been more about extending things that vim can't do. For example, vim can't do some simple math stuff with counts that ends up being really nice in V. Or the count regex command
but I also haven't worked on it seriously in a long time
 
10:48 PM
All my published languages are made with love.
 
Here is a question with where a brain-flak answer is accepted. I don't know if you would call that "winning a code-golf in Brain-flak". :P
 
Threead and TacO might both be pretty useless (TacO still isn't TC), but they're fun to write in, and often challenging.
 
@WheatWizard Haha, I don't if I'd quite count that :P
 
I've been working on adding Stream objects to Funky, so now you can do this: os.execute('dir').pipe('grep .js$').pipe(print);
 
Can you prove TacO isn't TC?
 
10:56 PM
Memory is limited, callstack cannot repeat.
 
I'm assuming it's specifically limited, like Befunge-93 ?
 
It's limited as a result of the design, not as an intentional thing.
 
Can I have a link to the repo? I'm assuming it's not an easy fix like changing a value
 
I've 'fixed' it a few times, but it's never felt right for the language.
 
11:25 PM
@Adám but seriously, it is almost completely unreadable. even compared to other golfing languages, the way the trains (links?) interact in it makes my brain twitch with every explanation added to some solution.
 
@Uriel, which language is this?
 
There is an underlying pattern, but mastering that takes time.
Jelly.
 
What's so odd about Jelly, @Uriel ?
 
@Uriel The fixed valence of atoms obviates the need for parentheses. Other than that, it is basically just tacit APL (with harder-to-remember symbols). I do find it incredibly hard to read links that are of even modest length, though.
 
tacit LPA, (it's LTR IIRC)
 
11:30 PM
@ZacharĂ˝ Not exactly. Monadic operators (quicks) are left-associative, just like in APL, so it isn't just reversed APL.
in Jelly, Apr 1 '16 at 18:42, by Dennis
I don't understand my language. ._.
2
 
._.
 
@Adám this always gets stars
 
@Riker For good reason. It is pretty much the very essence of PPCGdness.
Anyway, Jelly is great advertisement for APL: Intrigued by Jelly, but want full-featured real-life language? Go APL!
 
J would be more likely, considering it's listed as an inspiration
 
@Adám wait until some jelly questions starts on SO, then a PPCGer writes some real life software with it as an alpha version, and next thing you know avg salary for jelly developer is rocking the charts
@ZacharĂ˝ J is unreadable for other reasons
 
11:40 PM
@Uriel Hehe, but Jelly doesn't even have basic I/O features.
 
tbh that's something I wish more production languages lacked
 
@ZacharĂ˝ J is basically tacit-by-default APL without beautiful squiggles.
 
@Adám it follows PPCG standards, IO is flexible. you only need to make sure your client algo is implemeted correctly
 
Only Charcoal might achieve that, considering it has a non-golfy mode. That'll never happen, considering there's no real need for ASCII art
 
@Uriel Ah, you say you'd use Jelly for the algorithm and some other language for interfacing?
 
11:42 PM
@Adám no, just make sure to separate your fees for the writing of the software and feeding the data in :)
 
@WheatWizard Uhm, care to explain?
@Uriel hahahah. (you actually made me lol, leading to coughing and fear of waking the kids!)
 
Prolog's write is one of the worst things about the language. If they removed it the language would become 10% better.
 
@WheatWizard basic i/o features?
or clunky i/o features
 
Pure declarative languages tend to do themselves a lot of harm when trying to implement IO.
 
^
 
11:43 PM
@WheatWizard Well, there's Brachylog. I could see that become used.
 
@WheatWizard it's there for completeness. I believe most prologers don't need it, but hey, if you do that exists
 
Exactly, It's not really needed, they just threw it in because "why not?" and it compromises the declaritive purity of the language.
 
@WheatWizard I love Dyalog's APL multi-paradigm-ness.
 
Furthermore, non PPCGers usually view printing without print statement (what happens usually with implicit output golfing langs or workspaces langs) as "whaaaat?"
 
Well, it makes sense for non PPCG-ers if you're in a REPL ...
 
11:46 PM
@Adám I think the .Net stuff ruins it, though I do understand that they are needed for production
 
@Uriel Nah, I think it is a mentality thing. You don't expect to have to add print to your desktop calculator input.
@Uriel You mean .NET integration in particular or all the OOP?
 
@Adám many programmers don't realize it as a kind of programming language/REPL
 
@ZacharĂ˝ Right. In Dyalog, we call the REPL "deskcalc".
 
@Adám .NET integration. just visually bad
 
Flashback to code trolling when I used print in perl without any arguments by modifying `$\` (output separator).
 
11:48 PM
:41971447 and an M
@ZacharĂ˝ ask normal person to write Hello World in Python. they would put the print, even in REPL
 
@Uriel Really? I think it is very neatly integrated into the chosen object model. Performance sucks though.
 
Perl ... I remember looking into the specifics briefly, and running for my life
 
@Uriel And performance is not an issue in Jelly. APLs, on the other hand, are highly optimised for speed.
@Uriel No, and are on-topic.
 
@Adám oh, I often forget about them. I have a few baking on in APL, but I'm too afk to complete them
 
@Uriel afk?
 
11:51 PM
away from keyboard?
 
@Adám away from keyboard
 
@Uriel I'm waiting for 17.0 so I can show off some neat Boolean tricks.
 
function jelly(code, input, callback){
    var jell = os.execute(`python`,`../jelly/jelly`,`eu`,code,'%q'%input);
    jell.pipe(callback||@0);
    jell.write();
    return jell;
}

jelly('Ḳœ?@€2K',`Flipping letters around`,print);
Interfacing Jelly in Funky
 
You mean Python with JavaScript syntax infused.
 
What about Funky is Pythonic?
 
11:54 PM
I spent 4 years programming only in Python and I still don't know what Pythonic means.
 
@ATaco nothing really. but it does look better than JS
 
'%q'%input, os.execute
 
It's more intentionally like Lua.
 
@ATaco then lua probably looks much like JS
 
@ATaco What is '%q'%input?
 
11:56 PM
@Uriel Its oop is a lot like classic JS, prototyping. That is pretty rare, considering classes invade everything
 
'%q'%input is my own personal sugar of ('%q')::format(input)
 
Python does that ... hence why it looks Pythonic to me
 
TIL
 
@ATaco What is the q format?
 
Quote.
 
11:58 PM
@ZacharĂ˝ I did try to learn perl and Ruby, but they looked so weird compared to python so I dropped. I wouldve tried lua, but I'm past the days where I thought JS is the easiest to write in
 
@ATaco So it escapes characters as necessary?
 
Ruby is okay. Perl is fine if you don't go into the details.
 
Yep, Useful for quining and things.
 
@ZacharĂ˝ perl6 is better, though
 
@ATaco what kind of escaping does jelly need?
 
00:00 - 21:0021:00 - 00:00

« first day (2524 days earlier)      last day (2317 days later) »