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12:01 AM
I like the alt-text of this one.
 
Please stop saying (removed)
 
Haha, I started designing a language today based on the how-to-program Karel J. Robot software
 
@El'endiaStarman I have a feeling that this doesn't quite apply to most languages here =P
 
12:05 AM
Obstacle 1: I don't know how to use Github
Obstacle 2: I don't know how to program
 
@Eridan That sounds familiar
It reminds me of this, specifically ^^
 
@Eridan All programmers came up against obstacle 2 initially.
 
Not that I'm saying it's a bad idea
Just that you'll probably run into a few hurdles =P
You'll learn a ton, though
 
My Java class reinforces Obstacle 2. We were banned from using this.fsdjkl in constructors and it was very ugh
I think Obstacle 1 would be easiest to deal with, and I'm going to figure that out first
Obstacle 3: I deleted the Karel J. Robot JDK and now I have to create all of the dumb but necessary methods. 15 minute setbacks suck :(
 
12:24 AM
Aside from variable/method names, is there a nicer way to do this? (Java)

public void move(int count)
{
for(int i=1;i<=count;i++)
{
super.move();
}
}
 
Not use Java? :P
In all seriousness, given what little I know of Java, there probably isn't a better way.
 
Not gonna lie I want to star not using Java
 
There's... something peculiar going behind the scenes here. Code Golf should've flipped some switches but it hasn't, so I'll go look into why that's the case. — Grace Note ♦ 2 hours ago
it is sabatoge
 
@Calvin'sHobbies It's those dang Code Reviewers :P
 
Somebody called?
 
12:27 AM
@Quill why you people mess with our graduation? ;P
 
@Quill ¬_¬
 
no more like Area 51 is the fault
 
@Doorknob too ¬_¬
 
POS system from earliest beta of SO
 
Oh, the above code would work much better if it were i=0 and i<count because of move(0);
 
12:35 AM
Seems you do know how to program
 
I can program like a person can flip a coin and have it land on its side - technically I can, but even if I try, it'll take a long time to be successful
Though just to make sure, move(0) would just do nothing as opposed to throwing an error because of reasons (assuming int i=0;i<count;i++)
 
@Eridan Pretty sure most people wouldn't be able to flip a coin and make it land on its side. Ever.
 
@Eridan where is i passed to move()?
 
@Eridan if count is 0 the loop never execs
 
@El'endiaStarman Mr. Smith Goes to Washington
@Maltysen It's repeating super.move() count times, i is just a counter
@Calvin'sHobbies So no error?
 
12:40 AM
right
 
Thanks
 
oh the function is named move
 
Are we reviewing code? In PPCG?
 
@Roujo Slimming, more like
 
In the original Karel jar, move() moves the robot forward once; I want to make move() move the robot forward a desired number of times
 
12:41 AM
then a for loop is the way to go
 
@El'endiaStarman "making" it land in its side is unlikely, but having it land on its side randomly after lots of attempts may be possible depending on the coin. A UK 1 pound coin is fairly small radius and fairly large depth, so settling edge on isn't out of the question.
@Eridan Do you want move() to default to move(1), or cause an error?
 
I suppose default to 1
 
did you write move or is it part of the robot's classes?
 
@Quill he's overriding
 
Though that's not important. The move() method won't be invoked in the actual language
 
12:43 AM
hence the super.move
 
then write an overload to have an action counter
 
38 mins ago, by Eridan
Obstacle 2: I don't know how to program
@Quill What is that?
 
@Eridan java being stupid because it doesn't have default parameter values
 
I should probably make a separate chatroom to not spam T19B with dumb questions, shouldn't I
 
@Eridan lets you have multiple ways to call the function by specifying different parameters
 
12:45 AM
@Maltysen Really? Wow.
@Eridan Only if it gets in the way - there's not much else happening at the moment
 
@trichoplax Only one out of the thousands of way Java makes me suicidal!
 
How do you make move() default to move(1), specifically?
 
@Eridan define a separate move function that takes no args
and have it call super.move() once
 
public void move(int times){
    //...
}
public void move(){
    move(1);
}
 
@Maltysen I tried programming in Java once, for a KotH. I managed to get it working but not to get it competitive. I did find it painful but I wasn't sure if that was just because I didn't know it...
 
12:48 AM
Wow that's verbose
But then again, Java
Thanks @Quill
 
np
in C# you can do:
public void move(int? times = 1){
    //...
}
 
> C# any sane language
 
---3 dash---
 
> in a quote
 
most languages just null coalescence it in the loop
lel
 
12:50 AM
---strike--- gives strike
 
@trichoplax thanks!
 
No problem. I was about to explain that it doesn't work in a quote, then I tested it and found I was wrong... :)
 
Overloading is good for when methods have reliance on objects that can be either class objects or static objects
 
I find it interesting that methods with the same name are different depending on if they take in a parameter or not. Would a theoretical add(double d) be different from both add(int i) and add()?
 
yep
 
12:52 AM
yep!
'bearmonkeyed
 
jellyfish'd
 
@Quill Well, see, we have a user named NinjaBearMonkey, hence "bearmonkey'd" instead of "ninja'd". :P
 
what if I just like jellyfish
 
since @NinjaBearMonkey ninjad once
what are the dashed horiz lines between some messages?
 
@Calvin'sHobbies Indicates where you have already read up to
 
12:58 AM
@trichoplax huh?
 
@Calvin'sHobbies Something that guesses at what message you saw last, so you can go back to where you left off/the chat moved on while you weren't reading.
 
If you leave the tab and come back, the current bottom message will have that dotted line below it if more messages appeared while you were away from the tab
 
It's pretty handy if you're flitting between different chat rooms
It took a while to realise what it was for though - it would be nice if it had hovertext
 
why would dotted lines have hovertext
3
 
1:01 AM
So I can hover and find out what they are for
2
 
@Quill why not?
 
So many other things on this page have hovertext...
 
@Quill What is going on with this? I see nothing, but I can hover over it and see both the URL and the hover text.
Oh, it's all-white.
 
I like the ironic URL
 
existing issue, white image no border
because they're thin, and aren't supposed to represent things that need explaining
 
1:02 AM
@El'endiaStarman bad ux...
 
White image no border is terrible User Experience.
dammit
 
@Calvin'sHobbies the irony
 
Woo! I actually ninja'd for once
 
also it happens to heaps of sites
there was a MSE post about it a while ago
the dotted lines are supposed to represent segmentation of content
what else would you need to segment chat messages for
 
1:04 AM
"Messages I haven't seen yet" is not a particularly obvious reason.
 
what other reason is there?
 
It's particularly not obvious because it's easy to assume that's not possible
You might assume it meant there had been a quiet gap in chat
 
@Quill Something time-stamp related, maybe.
 
@Quill top of the hour perhaps
 
@trichoplax there's a bold message for that
 
1:05 AM
True - but someone new might guess that
 
screw new users
filthy casuals
 
Good user experience shouldn't require experience
3
 
> user experience
@trichoplax the page title caches unread messages
 
These are all good suggestions - maybe we should a variety of different dotted and dashed lines all meaning subtly different things
 
1:06 AM
@Quill Says guy with 306 ppcg rep
 
@Calvin'sHobbies buuuuuuuuusted
 
the javascript answers are too fast and I can't be bothered learning/writing an esolang
 
@Quill I meant that "messages you haven't read yet" sounds impossible as there's no way of telling which messages you've seen. Then I had the moment of realisation - it's just "messages that haven't been on screen yet" regardless of whether you physically looked at them. Of course this will be obvious to lots of people, but the few like me who get easily confused could do with some hovertext :)
 
@Quill make challenges (all I do)
 
1:09 AM
I'm fairly certain hovertext over dotted lines is bad ux
 
Slack has a nice "New messages" text over the dotted line
 
@Calvin'sHobbies that's where like 90% of my rep on here comes from, but yeah, I'm making excuses
 
@Quill Especially if it says "dotted line"
 
lol
 
Also, anyone can gain rep and give the illusion of maturity and hard work by answering a few s
(This isn't bitterness, I speak from experience)
 
1:13 AM
anyone can gain rep anywhere with enough effort
 
@trichoplax Yes. This is exactly why I still have only 131 rep. Totally.
Wait. That doesn't explain it at all. >_>
Nevermind. I'm tired. Sorry.
 
@Quill Well yes - this is a way of getting around the effort part ;)
 
Anyone can gain rep by simply gaining rep
 
list the primes:
2
 
1:15 AM
5
 
11
 
?!?
Oh - you didn't say in order
 
(in order)
 
in what base is f prime??
 
:P
 
1:16 AM
list the primes in order:
2
 
3
 
@Calvin'sHobbies optimus
 
"Output the first n primes in alphabetical order"
 
1:17 AM
the first n primes is written with words in alphabetical order
 
... no? =P
 
@Eridan Wow - I didn't even plan that
 
wait
 
@Eridan In ascending order.
 
No wait - the the
 
1:17 AM
Pretty much
 
Much like when I lipogrammed away from e, the comes back to haunt me
 
@trichoplax five would always be first?
 
On the bright side, I think I can upload the first part of my robot language's code to Github now
 
I liked firsty...
 
@Calvin'sHobbies fifty-something would come before five
 
1:19 AM
fifty-nine, fifty-three
 
eleven
rather
list pi:
 
eleven, eleventy three, eleventy hundred and fifty one, ...
 
pi-3
 
1:21 AM
 
@Eridan Haha, yeah, it's a word we don't think about much.
 
dog eat dog world
 
Reminds me of the film Evolution
 
What's the best license to use for gits?
 
drivers
 
1:25 AM
That's not a - you son of
GNU, MIT, or Apache?
 
If by gits you mean code version controlled by git, that doesn't narrow it down...
 
Oh
Never mind, I found what I want
 
It will depend what the code is for and what you want others to be able to do with it. Open Source may be helpful
 
Finally got tensorflow working.
 
1:29 AM
I love that there's a measure called perplexity. What does it mean??
 
I think it's how perplexing it finds the data, but I'm not quiiite sure.
 
So decreasing perplexity is good
 
I'm shooting for single digits, basically.
 
In information theory, perplexity is a measurement of how well a probability distribution or probability model predicts a sample. It may be used to compare probability models. A low perplexity indicates the probability distribution is good at predicting the sample. == Perplexity of a probability distribution == The perplexity of a discrete probability distribution p is defined as where H(p) is the entropy of the distribution and x ranges over events. Perplexity of a random variable X may be defined as the perplexity of the distribution over its possible values x. In the special case where p models...
In case anybody was actually curious what it meant.
 
It's a real term?? Now I'm even happier
 
1:30 AM
I knew somebody was going to offer a link. I love this room sometimes.
 
https://github.com/EridanPPCG/Arcturus/blob/master/Commands
Open to suggestions to make this less noob-ishly programmed
 
1. Post it to Code Review
As long as it works you can post it there and it helps a lot
(as long as it's not golfed...)
 
-1 for lonely opening braces :P
 
2. Use Egyptian braces to cut your line count by 1/3rd.
 
Isn't Code Review for when your code isn't working?
 
1:33 AM
Nope
 
Wait no that's S/O
I assume Egyptian braces are undoing Geobits's -1?
 
Code Review literally exists for this singular purpose.
 
SO is more specific stuff (right?)
 
Code Review is for exactly this situation - and they accept quite long code so you could put the entire thing in a question (as long as you don't mind releasing it under CC BY-SA 3.0)
 
Would they appreciate a link to the file or would they want the full code pasted in?
 
1:34 AM
@Eridan Yea, that :)
 
Chat mini-challenge - write a program that fixes non-Egyptian braces by deleting all linefeeds before { and }
 
No, the closing ones are fine the way they are.
 
@Eridan I'd prefer spaces around = and +=, etc
 
2 mins ago, by trichoplax
Code Review is for exactly this situation - and they accept quite long code so you could put the entire thing in a question (as long as you don't mind releasing it under CC BY-SA 3.0)
he's got it
 
We're doing code reviews in PPCG chat now, in an attempt to swing graduation
 
1:37 AM
Let's broaden it a little more and bring in some skeptics or worldbuilders ;)
 
@Quill What's the Code Review stance on reviewing code that the author doesn't want to include in the question nowadays?
 
That depends, I suppose
 
@Geobits +1 for putting skeptics and worldbuilders in the same chatroom
 
@Geobits "How can I get a rogue Java program to kill its developer?"
 
@Quill What's the stance on reviewing code without actually being able to test it, as the code would require a specific jar to be downloaded?
 
1:39 AM
All sub-300 perplexities now. This is going faster than anticipated. I think I need more data...
 
Perhaps you need more perplexing data
 
how integrated is the codebase you speak of @eridan
 
What did I miss?
 
Also, what is the context?
 
@trichoplax Trust me when I say it's as perplexing as it gets. It's the full transcript to this room.
 
1:40 AM
@quartortilla, hello!
 
@Geobits ... oh
 
@Calvin'sHobbies I love tortillas does that make me a cannibal
 
@Geobits When perplexity gets down to one, will you have a chat bot that can simulate any PPCG chat conversation?
 
I dunno. I'm eager to see what it spits out, tbh.
 
@Quill Let me see if I can find a link to the file
 
1:41 AM
@Geobits What's this?
 
@Geobits I'll see if I can spot the moment after which it's no longer you typing
 
@trichoplax that already occurred a couple of years ago :P
 
@quartata I'm feeding the entire transcript into a seq2seq RNN in tensorflow. Supposedly they can model conversations. We'll see.
 
@Geobits Oh boy.
 
@Maltysen So this chat analysis is just a front. I knew it!
 
1:42 AM
Well we'll see a lot of that's for sure
 
@Quill My version of the jar came from a school website, but I suppose this would work too.
 
I'm feeding everything in sequentially now. I think it would work better if I parse the html a bit more to get reply-chains fed in the right order and relationship, but I want a baseline first.
 
> The lowest perplexity that has been published on the Brown Corpus (1 million words of American English of varying topics and genres) as of 1992 is indeed about 247 per word, corresponding to a cross-entropy of log2247 = 7.95 bits per word or 1.75 bits per letter [1] using a trigram model. It is often possible to achieve lower perplexity on more specialized corpora, as they are more predictable.
 
I suppose that's fine @Eridan
 
So I guess the 300s is a pretty decent range.
 
1:44 AM
what is Karel the Robot?
 
Once I make the brackets Roman-style like Geobits said, I'll recommit and ask on CR
 
Yea, I think I'm just going to leave it running for a few hours to see what it's at then.
 
@PhiNotPi I wonder if PPCG chat gives more bits per letter. I'd hope...
 
@Maltysen One of those head-fake programming things that teaches you how to program, sort of
 
Geobits never said Roman-style ;)
 
1:44 AM
@Eridan aughh those braces, my eyes
2
 
Have a review
I'm not a Java programmer, but your code is pretty basic (thus more non-style comments are harder to come by)
 
@Quill would this be acceptable: for(int i=0; i<2; i++) { or would it still have to be for(int i = 0; i < 2; i++) {?
 
the second
 
Eww. This is why people hate Java.
 
Ok. Btw, I believe your second thing on the document is incorrect; the first set changes the x coordinate, and the second changes the y coordinate.
 
1:50 AM
@Eridan I was just about to mention this
 
you're right
similar to your code, the reviews get reviewed too
 
Do bangs get a space separation from their booleans?
 
The goto thing is hard to explain, but this sums it up fairly well:
 
nam flashbacks
 
Hmm. Well, ~250 perplexity is terrible. Using that model snapshot, it just spit out pretty random looking garbage words. Time to wait for double digits...
 
1:52 AM
@Geobits ...that's not us?
 
lol
 
> pretty random looking garbage words
 
No, more like us put through the worst markov chain ever.
 
> avocad juic
 
@Geobits sample pls
 
1:53 AM
I plan on having a party the first time it asks me to juic an avocad.
 
@Quill if(!condition) or if(! condition)?
 
@Geobits will the party contain avocad juic?
 
@Quill Don't feel like rooting through my history. Will give sample of next test (probably at least an hour).
 
the first
there's not two things wrapped around an operator
 
@Eridan maybe xDistance instead of xdiff?
 
1:55 AM
I don't quite get what you mean by "magic numbers." Are you saying the numbers look arbitrary?
@Maltysen Will do in a moment. I'm going down Quill's list of suggestions
 
They're not explained, and someone might not immediately see what they do.
 
Would that best be rectified by a comment or changing the count in the for loop to leftTurns?
 
@Eridan steps instead of count in move()?
 
Also, you can tell what they mean by looking and thinking, but not only does this take time but different people might come to different conclusions
 
Am I just too tired to think or does the comment thread on this question make no sense at all?
 
1:57 AM
@Dennis What about it doesn't make sense?
 
@Dennis It only applies if there are duplicates in the input
(it doesn't apply to the input in the question)
 
Ah, OK. That does make sense.
 
Cartesian products can have duplicates?
I thought they were ordered.
 
@trichoplax also remember some people might not be as magical as you and not be able to figure out what they mean
 
@Geobits Might not be the best name for a list. Hence my confusion.
 
1:59 AM
@Quill lol I'm one of the ones who would figure out something wrong and only find out much later after subtle bugs...
 
Another way to think of "magic numbers": if it's a constant you might change in the future, it's better to store it in a variable with a meaningful name.
Not all constants are magic numbers.
 
Those magic numbers in particular are constant; I added a comment to the top saying that all turns are in terms of 90˚
 
CR is harsh on Magic Numbers
74
Q: '100' is a magic number

janosMagic numbers are bad... I totally agree. But there's one magic number I find hard to fix: '100' is a magic number. Consider this code: public double getPercent(double rate) { return rate * 100; } public double getRate(double percent) { return percent / 100; } Sonar will raise 2...

 

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