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12:00 AM
damnit, it was too long for one message
 
all of these need to be preprocessed right ?
 
in what sense?
 
the code is like JS that is pasred
 
yes
they're interpreted
most are run with python/JS, some with other languages like ruby/perl
 
@AlexA. And some have designed languages specifically designed unsuitable for code golf.
 
12:07 AM
it's a trick to make shorter programs but would really make faster to write them
 
@flawr They have? Examples?
 
does golfers like warm-holes ?
 
Um, I'm not sure what you mean
 
It's my thing in writing shorter .. many rabbits one shot
 
@AlexA. Javagony.
 
12:09 AM
@animaacija I'm not entirely sure what you're trying to say, but if I'm guessing right: I occasionally use CJam (a language designed for golfing) for simple scripts, because for those, typing speed is actually the bottleneck, and having to type fewer characters let's me solve problems faster.
 
Jelly & some thou has very special chars .. no offence I appreciate the work
 
there's a tradeoff in terms of conciseness...fewer keystrokes are possible only as the learning curve gets shallower (and yes, a shallow learning curve implies increased difficulty in learning)
 
@MartinBüttner I mean this in whole application level .. some smart & dynamic life in program, ... use of variable variables and such
 
@animaacija my guess is "tar-pits"...as in turing tar-pits
 
okay, I'm really not following any more...
 
12:13 AM
..editted one word
 
@animaacija ...it didn't help
 
:D
im from notrh ... maybe that
 
0
Q: Make tag badges count questions site-specifically

VoteToCloseAs asked here, here, and probably a few more places. Tag badges currently only are funded towards by votes on answers. However, on some sites, this is not appropriate. For example, on PPCG, a great deal of work and knowledge over a tag is in writing questions; we have a user (@HelkaHomba) who h...

 
@flawr
 
12:16 AM
@VoteToClose
 
@VoteToClose egocentric, eh?
 
@animaacija What is notrh?
 
4eva al1.
 
guhh .. North*
 
@VoteToClose uhhh, coincidence?
 
12:17 AM
im on accer from 1997 what would you expect
 
@MartinBüttner wat
 
0
A: We're not a Q&A site. But what should be done about it?

Martin BüttnerTag badges for challenges Questions (challenges) aren't counted towards tag badges. Seeing how much effort we put on the fact that high-quality challenges are the main contribution someone can give to the community, it would be nice to reward people who post a lot of (well-received) challenges a...

 
@animaacija So do you like gardening?
 
I like
 
I had a brief chat with a dev and apparently this can't be set on a per-site basis; the change would have to apply network-wide. He did recommend leaving this up and seeing what kind of support it gets though. — Alex A. ♦ Jan 16 at 20:25
Slightly different. I'm ing that it be set-able site-specifically, not for it to be set on a certain site.
 
12:18 AM
yeah I'm actually suggesting something slightly different
 
I was asking off of this, actually. :P
@MartinBüttner Wait, so, a different badge for answers and questions? This seems hard to implement.
 
of course
as do some other things on that post
 
@AlexA. I have not been aware of any italian metal so far.
 
PPCG makes SE life hard on multiple levels. :D
 
@flawr I've heard a little but not very much. And not in a long time.
 
12:23 AM
@AlexA. A note on the question you linked: that question is asking for what @MartinBüttner is asking, not what I'm asking.
 
Is it? I think the question is vague enough that the intent could be either.
 
Any superuser ? AliveLinux <--ethernetCable--> MacWithoutAnyVideo

goal to this puzzle is to use Macs resources and use some any graphics card .. via ethernet cable

Picture can be displayed on eather one of devices
... actually please
really
 
@animaacija We're not exactly the people to ask this...
 
As (mostly) code golfers, our job is to exploit code to make it short, not to manipulate hardware. :P
 
12:31 AM
hexagony touched my heart @Upgoat .. reading on ..
about thous warm-holes ... see this golf-concept: "
each special char in *my-imagine* golf language has at most 6 derivetives **depending** **on** **context** (thus char aside or next to it ... context being *it's* derivetive, which might also depend on context of course) ... all this logically constructed
could make fewer chars uh ?
 
some golfing languages do this in the sense of overloading. there the context isn't the surrounding characters but the datatype the character is acting on (so the context is actually a run-time property not a syntactical property). for instance, in CJam , can either turn an integer or character into a range, compute the length of an array, or filter an array, depending on what's no the stack.
(the last unused character I had for Hexagony was $... I considered making it a random number generator, that would have a different random effect depending on which direction the instruction pointer was going... I ended up using it for something much simpler, which I'm quite happy about, but a 2D language where the meaning of operators depends on the direction of the IP is still on my list...)
 
I think I've heard of such a language before
 
Name it "Hexagonier".
 
ah well, it would just be a rectangular layout, because it already sounds tricky enough :P
 
2D comes with stack < it's a rule uh ?
 
12:45 AM
Hexagony doesn't have a stack
neither does Fission (well, it's possible to use a stack component there, but that's not the fundamental memory model)
 
is there a 3D ?
 
And neither does Funciton.
 
what is the 3rd dimension ?
 
just another space dimension
 
12:46 AM
well, any 2D language with "reflectors" already has operators that depend on IP direction
 
Or, in Minkolang's case, it's the "time" dimension.
 
Befunge-98's specification is actually N-dimensional and Befunge is just the 2D instance.
there are some other 3D languages though I think
 
Trefunge is the 3d instance, unefunge the 1d
 
Vitsy is 4th dimensional in that it has layers of 3D stacks.
 
ohai
 
Jellyfish is also 2D with no stack, but it's horribly incomplete.
 
@Zgarb I was going to ask you about your progress :)
 
esolangs.org/wiki/Sansism is n-dimensional also
esolangs.org/wiki/Hyperfunge a 2D language in hyperbolic geometry!
 
oh, MarioLANG is also 2D and not stack-based (has a tape like Brainfuck)
 
12:50 AM
@MartinBüttner Very slow. I don't have much time or energy to implement new things for it.
 
@MartinBüttner Isn't there essentially a 1-to-1 correspondence between MarioLANG and BF?
 
you can translate BF to ML, but doing the opposite is tricky
for instance ML has separate I/O commands for characters and integers
 
I'm pretty sure that Vitsy can almost be exactly translated from ><>... if you do it right.
 
also control flow in ML can be a lot more complicated than the simple loops in BF
 
ah-huh, okay
 
12:52 AM
@VoteToClose if you do it right any TC language can be translated to any other TC language :P
 
Fair enough. :P
 
In theory.
 
@MartinBüttner if you do it right anything that can be done can be done by someone else too
 
(wait, what does TC mean?)
 
Turing Complete.
Essentially, any computable function is computable.
And that's not a tautology. :P
 
12:55 AM
s/\./ by the TC machine\./
 
If it is computable, it is computable. seems legit
 
1 min ago, by El'endia Starman
And that's not a tautology. :P
 
What is the simplest turing completeness test?
 
Can you translate Vitsy to ><> with a finite state transducer?
 
12:57 AM
There are theoretically-computable functions, and then there are those functions that are computable with a given language/machine. If these are the same, then the language/machine is TC.
 
tautology :the saying of the same thing twice in different words, generally considered to be a fault of style (e.g., they arrived one after the other in succession ).
 
@VoteToClose Probably the easiest is to prove that you can simulate another TC language.
 
so THATS what it meens
*means
 
@VoteToClose reduce bitwise cyclic tag to it, usually.
 
@VoteToClose That really depends on the language you're trying to prove TC-ness for.
 
12:57 AM
So, Vitsy, then. :P I haven't proven it's Turing-completeness.
 
Sometimes it's easiest to show that any program in a TC language can be translated to it.
Sometimes it's easiest to write an interpreter for a TC language in it.
 
@epicTCK I always thought of tautology in the sense that you're saying that X is X, so there's no information.
 
Sometimes it's easiest to implement some TC system like GoL or Rule 110 in it (that's what I did for Retina).
 
Rule 110?
 
a very simple 1D cellular automaton which is TC
 
12:59 AM
The Rule 110 cellular automaton (often simply Rule 110) is an elementary cellular automaton with interesting behavior on the boundary between stability and chaos. In this respect it is similar to Conway's Game of Life. Also like Life, Rule 110 is known to be Turing complete. This implies that, in principle, any calculation or computer program can be simulated using this automaton. == Definition == In an elementary cellular automaton, a one-dimensional pattern of 0s and 1s evolves according to a simple set of rules. Whether a point in the pattern will be 0 or 1 in the new generation depends on its...
 
Sometimes it is easiest to add a buitin compieler for a tc languege MAKE it tc
 
@epicTCK is this not "pleonasm"?
 
@epicTCK That's cheating. :P
 
@epicTCK where is the fun in that?
 
Also, isn't Seriously a HQ9+ derivant?
3
 
1:00 AM
haha
 
@VoteToClose Ohhhh you're gonna get the ಠ_ಠ for that from @Mego...
 
HQ9+ syntax is defined as having the commands H output Hello, World!, a Q which outputs/pushes the source code, 9 which outputs 99 bottles (thanks @MartinBüttner), and + which adds.
So... by all means, it's an HQ9+ derivant.
 
9 prints 99 bottles of beer in HQ9+
I think in Seriously, that's N though
 
@MartinBüttner Oh. Well, it has a builtin for that still. :P
 
@VoteToClose Also, xkcd comic about Rule 110. I've always liked that one.
 
1:04 AM
Seriously's + doesn't behave like HQ9+'s either. That would be u in Seriously
 
I really like the comparison though :D
it's set of built-ins is similarly ridiculous
 
It's HQ9++++++++...
 
not as ridiculous as its syntax...or encoding
 
Clicking through random xkcd comics now...
 
@El'endiaStarman wow, so outdated. it makes me feel old :(
 
1:08 AM
can haz moar opinion kthnxbye
Vitsy needs more stuff! What do you think it needs for new features most?
@MartinBüttner Is Rule 110 toroidal?
 
TIL you can buy uranium ore on amazon. online shopping is weird
 
Okay, good. :D
 
If it were, it wouldn't be TC.
 
if you made the domain finite it couldn't be TC
to make it TC it actually needs to be superimposed on a non-uniform background IIRC
 
1:10 AM
@MartinBüttner we could have an infinite toroidal domain...
 
@MartinBüttner I read these words but I don't understand them.
 
@MartinBüttner That's true, and it needs to be a different pattern to the left and right.
 
When you finally fix that bug that has been bugging you for months.
 
And one of the patterns is part of the "input".
 
kek
 
1:11 AM
@VoteToClose so the domain needs to be infinite, otherwise it can't store an unbounded amount of data. but you can't just have an infinite "tape" of all zeroes or all 1s... it needs to have a specific pattern to allow you to encode arbitrary computations.
 
@quintopia ....I'm trying to figure out how that would work.
 
@Zgarb so much whining about what initial conditions are acceptable
 
TC is hard. D:
 
the proof that Rule 110 is TC is hard... implementing Rule 110 isn't
 
@El'endiaStarman all lines are infinitely long and indistinguishable topologically from circles
 
1:12 AM
@VoteToClose TC is easy, weird computational models are hard.
 
I problem that I'm going to have is that Vitsy is naturally toroidal - everything wraps like modulo.
 
@El'endiaStarman graph a rational function on it with vertical and horizontal/slant asymptotes? yep, it's now a continuous function. (not sure about being equivalent to a circle tho)
 
I'm pretty sure Vitsy is TC.
 
@El'endiaStarman But I haven't proved it.
 
1:14 AM
Can you do recursion?
 
Yes.
 
It's probably TC.
 
@VoteToClose how is stuff stored?
 
@quintopia In a toroidal stack of toroidal stacks of arbitrarily large decimals..
 
"arbitrarily large" yep definitely TC
now go prove it
 
1:16 AM
:c
 
just describe how to translate a simple 2 register minsky machine. no biggie m8.
 
Or simulate a queue automaton!
 
Hmm. Might just make a boolfuck interpreter.
Actually, now that I look at it, BF wouldn't be too hard anyways. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
@VoteToClose you need to censor that
it's b**lfuck
 
Bools are the most obscene data type
 
1:24 AM
ಠ_ಠ
Also, all of you should see the starboard and star what you agree with. :D
 
I'm a golfer that likes warm holes
 
Same.
I also like cold holes though.
And lukewarm holes.
 
Riker loves holes.
 
Yep.
I don't like holes that eat people though.
 
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
 
1:35 AM
Finally the Lenny face shows up.
 
You could have graced us with a Lenny
El'lennya Starman
4
 
ಠ_ಠ
 
^
He has a beard.
 
@AlexA. ☆( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)☆
 
( ͡☆ ͜ʖ ͡☆)
 
1:47 AM
☆( ͡ಠʖ ͡ಠ)☆
 
2:01 AM
YouTube comments sometimes are amazing.
> Mexicostep
Oh, and while I'm at it: RDFTD:
@MartinBüttner What'd you think of this?
 
@VoteToClose I definitely agree
 
but I'm not Martin
 
0
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

TheInitializerWrite the worst Hello World program you can [popularity-contest] [super rough] Who needs conventions? Write the most terrible Hello World program you can think of. Inefficiency, spaghetti code, you name it. Add a few gotos here and there to spice it up. Write code that has gone against everythin...

 
Oh I am still RikerGoat? ><
 
2:12 AM
I see you as RikerW.
 
I am now Easterly irk.
 
@El'endiaStarman Yeah, I couldn't find the right account. :P
I like this name.
Try to figure out the other word than Riker. :P
 
EasterlyIrkGoat
 
Guys, let's give @Dennis some love for this. This is ridiculous.
1
A: Calculate the number of primes up to n

DennisPython 2 (PyPy 4.0), ~1.7 seconds def Phi(m, b): if not b: return m if not m: return 0 if m >= 800: return Phi(m, b - 1) - Phi(m // primes[b - 1], b - 1) t = b * 800 + m if not Phi_memo[t]: Phi_memo[t] = Phi(m, b - 1) - Phi(m // primes[b - 1],...

 
2:16 AM
ಠ_ಠ at all of the username changing
 
Sorry.
 
No you're not. :P
 
... I plead the fifth.
 
I should change my name to Toga Down
 
yes pls
 
2:20 AM
ಠ_ಠ I'm an American. I just happen to live here.
 
oh
Why?
(no offense)
Are you fleeing Trump?
 
Am I Toga Down yet?
\o/
 
@EasterlyIrk Luck.
 
4 mins ago, by Easterly Irk
Are you fleeing Trump?
 
2:25 AM
ಠ_ಠ
 
@VoteToClose Why are there so many people in this room that grew up in one country and currently lives in another? o.O
 
That would be a lucky break to get a new place to hide.
^^
 
Martin used to be one of those, I think.
 
@El'endiaStarman Actually, I'm growing up in England.
 
@VoteToClose really, why not come to California?
 
2:26 AM
@VoteToClose s/grew up/born\/grew up/
 
Because that state is ridiculous enough to hire The Arnold as a mayor. >.>
 
true
but we have INNOUT
 
@VoteToClose He must be doing pretty well for me to not have heard of any big scandals or whatever.
 
@EasterlyIrk kek
 
He isn't anymore.
@VoteToClose Hey, it is heaven in a burger.
 
2:28 AM
No, Whataburger's better.
c:
 
trust me, no.
 
@El'endiaStarman I'm one of these too.
 
Where to where?
 
Finland to Boston, MA.
 
Cool.
 
2:29 AM
wow
 
That too.
 
Why is there such a high concentration of such people in this room?!?
 
But I'm going back in a couple of months.
 
2:30 AM
Why did you come/go?
@Zgarb ^
 
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
 
@EasterlyIrk I'm doing a post doc here.
 
If he's doing a post-doc, yes he's an adult. :P
 
Unless I'm a child prodigy. :P
 
@El'endiaStarman IIRC he's been out of office for a fairly long time now.
 
2:33 AM
True...
 
@El'endiaStarman I konw.
> (removed)
*4
brb for dinner
 
@Zgarb Are you visiting Finland or going back permanently?
 
0
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

DowngoatHelp Jason Format his json code-golf Jason has a big JSON but it's unreadable, so he needs to prettify it. Your code will need to be short because unformatted JSON is short. Examples [1,2,3] [1, 2, 3] {"a":1,"b":4} { "a": 1, "b": 4 } "foo" "foo" 56 56 {"a":[{"b":1,"c":"foo"},{"d":[2,3...

is that a dupe?
 
@AlexA. At least for a year, because of civil service. Then I have another post doc in France. After that it's all open.
 
@AlexA. Since Jan 3, 2011 apparently. That's probably why.
 
2:36 AM
@Zgarb So you finished your doctorate, I assume in Finland, then did a post-doc in Boston? What is this civil service you speak of?
 
> Although he began his tenure as governor with record high approval ratings (as high as 89% in December 2003), he left office with a record low 23%,[80] only one percent higher than that of Gray Davis's when he was recalled in October 2003.
TIL he must not have been all that good. :P
 
Hopefully that doesn't come as a surprise :P
 
Not too much.
It would be the rare non-politician that's actually good at politic-ing.
 
@AlexA. True, I left for Boston two days after my dissertation. Finland has a mandatory military service, which can be substituted by a civil service or a jail sentence. I've been putting it off for years, so I'll have to do it now.
 
@Zgarb Eh, jail's better.
 
2:38 AM
@Zgarb What constitutes civil service?
 
Yeah in Finland you have to do something like 8 months of military service or 10 of community service
 
0
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

DowngoatHelp Jason Format his json code-golf Jason has a big JSON but it's unreadable, so he needs to prettify it. Your code will need to be short because unformatted JSON is short. Examples [1,2,3] [1, 2, 3] {"a":1,"b":4} { "a": 1, "b": 4 } "foo" "foo" 56 56 {"a":[{"b":1,"c":"foo"},{"d":[2,3...

 
I've actually heard that mandatory military service or civil service is actually really common in Europe.
 
@AlexA. For some it is, but it would mess up my schedule.
 
Wait, is "for some it is" a joke?
 
2:39 AM
Remember reading about it in a biography about Torvalds
 
@AlexA. There are some who choose it because of ideological reasons.
I considered it too, but decided not to.
 
They're ideologically opposed to civil service?
 
To mandatory service of any kind.
 
Oh, okay. That makes more sense.
 
This "jail" must be..."nice" if that's a serious option.
 
2:41 AM
@El'endiaStarman It's implemented by an electronic ankle bracelet. You can basically be at home and go to work/school normally, but you have to follow a strict schedule.
 
Three mistakes and it becomes actual jail time.
 
That's more like house arrest than anything.
 
@El'endiaStarman Yeah, that's the word.
 
At least in the US that's what we'd call house arrest
Ninja'd big time
 
2:42 AM
It's a new system, came a couple of years ago.
 
Before that was it jail jail?
 
Yes.
6 months.
 
Hm, 6 months doesn't sound too terrible.
 
Depends on the jail.
 
2:44 AM
Though a friend of mine says that jail is worse than prison.
 
What's the difference?
 
Apparently jail is the small local thing that folks are held in temporarily before being sent to prison.
 
yo
 
@Quill yo bro
 
2:45 AM
@EasterlyIrk this joke is unacceptable.
 
@AlexA. Oh. Then I meant prison instead of jail.
 
@Quill monking
 
:27884811 That's not an appropriate thing to ask people.
Or insinuate in any way, shape, or form.
 
...
 
I'm off to eat.
 
@Zgarb Enjoy your food!
 
@Zgarb .o/
 
@Quill Hellooo
 
mm food
 
Oh right, I forgot to eat
2
Eh, I'll do it later
 
2:48 AM
That happens to me more often than it should.
 
Some music I just wrote: soundcloud.com/phinotpi/escapement1
 
I find myself eating, then forgetting that I ate an hour later. I'm a little absent-minded like that
@PhiNotPi ooh
 
@PhiNotPi This is cool. :D I can't tell where the downbeat is, ever.
 
@PhiNotPi This is nice. I like it. :)
 
@PhiNotPi 10/10 would phi again
 
2:55 AM
10/10
 
> i phi evry tim
 
@Quill what time is it for you?
 
About 1pm
 
wait, what timezone is Quill in?
 
Gold Coast, Australia
 
2:57 AM
Australia
hrmph. bad internet strikes again
 
>.< That moment when autoplays kicks in on one of 50 tabs.
 
By the way, the (pretty much arbitrary) title of the piece comes from the part of the clock that actually creates the ticking noise: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Escapement
 
:O that's ~85 km away
 
Really?
@Upgoat is australian?
 
I swear, most of the people in this room are not in the USA. :P
 
2:59 AM
@Upgoat About 90 minutes via Airtrain
 
@El'endiaStarman the activity chart says otherwise
 
is from the US
 

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