The Nineteenth Byte

betseg

18:06

> ~~11<sub>3</sub>~~ 3 bytes

Struck out 4 is 11 in base 3

wizzwizz4

@betseg Really?

betseg

@wizzwizz4 Look at Dennis's answer on that challenge

ErikGolferエリックゴルファー

@betseg Base 3 is the maximum base that you can't confuse 4 with 4.

wizzwizz4

@ErikGolferエリックゴルファー That's a point.

Hey! I've developed the ability to tell the difference between the two! :-)

ErikGolferエリックゴルファー

Well, Base 4 exists too, but you can confuse it with Base 4, so nope. Wait; I have that ability too!

betseg

18:10

You have to strike the 4 on base 4 numbers (~~10<sub>4</sub>~~)

ErikGolferエリックゴルファー

No there is no 4 on base 4 numbers, unless you are referring to bijective base 4. See the confusion? Stay with base 3 instead.

wizzwizz4

@betseg Neither of those were 4. They were both 4.

Poke

what screen capture software do folks use for animated gifs

betseg

Meh I think you understand what I'm trying to say

Poke

i've been using greenshot but i think it only supports screenshots

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

18:11

@Poke licecap

betseg

@Poke recordmydesktop and imagemagick

ErikGolferエリックゴルファー

@Poke In Ubuntu, I use SSR (Simple Screen Recorder).

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

the FPS isn't great for big gifs, and it spazzes a bit on games/applications that take over your cursor, but it works for most things

Poke

@ErikGolferエリックゴルファー ah good point. i'm on windows

wizzwizz4

@Poke PRTSCN and GIMP

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

18:12

iirc doorknob also made some sort of gif recorder but idr well

Poke

@wizzwizz4 for animated gifs? wowsers

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

@Poke cockos.com/licecap

ErikGolferエリックゴルファー

SSR does not make HD vids though. It creates a video, you have to convert it to gif. I would argue it's the best option for now.

Poke

thanks

betseg

I use recordmydesktop to make a video, then imagemagick to turn the video into a gif

ErikGolferエリックゴルファー

18:14

@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ Lol LICEcap is so spastic.

DJMcMayhem

@Poke I use loilo to record to .avi and ffmpeg to convert to gif.

Poke

i haven't used ffmpeg in years

DJMcMayhem

I'm pretty happy with it

Poke

haha

ErikGolferエリックゴルファー

ffmpeg is feature-rich I think.

betseg

18:15

Too rich IMO

Poke

it used to be what was used under the hood of just about every format converter iirc

idk if that's still the case

ErikGolferエリックゴルファー

@betseg You mean too heavy?

betseg

It's like systemd, but about videos lol

Poke

@ErikGolferエリックゴルファー What makes you say this? The website makes it look pretty easy and decent

i guess it's probably not as good as a converted video

ErikGolferエリックゴルファー

The gifs make me say that. If you watch closely, you will see that they lag quite a bit.

mınxomaτ

18:27

Does anyone here have a chromecast? If so, any complaints?

Poke

@ErikGolferエリックゴルファー ah ok i think i see what you're saying

Gabriel Benamy

I will forever be shocked that my boss still finds me useful

5

Poke

@mınxomaτ I have one in my apartment. I don't have any real complaints. It has spazzed once or twice where I've had to reset it

Yodle

@mınxomaτ I have one, works pretty well.

Poke

Other than that the only frustrating thing is finding a good app to stream saved content

Downgoat

18:29

@ConorO'Brien can you test cheddar debugger on windows? github link you can test using npm run build && node test/cheddar.js

Poke

some video encodings seem to work better than others

mınxomaτ

@Poke That's my main intended use. What have you tried?

Poke

@mınxomaτ I think the one that has been most reliable is Videostream

Downgoat

@Geobits bovine brethren with legs brutally slaughtered off :(

Wait does cow count as bovine

wizzwizz4

@Downgoat Yes.

Kritixi Lithos

18:32

Yes

You ninja'd me, well done!

wizzwizz4

There should be a chat badge for that.

I'll ask.

Poke

@mınxomaτ Have also used plex but most smart tv's just have an app for that

Downgoat

@wizzwizz4 brb making userscript

Poke

plex seems like overkill unless you have a full media server and/or other people

Geobits

@Poke I use Videostream for Chrome. Works very well.

wizzwizz4

18:34

~~... You can... do that?~~ Reply to deleted message.

mınxomaτ

I don't have a smart TV. My parents recently bought one and it serves ads in the menu, and is overall slow. I have a LG PF1000U, with most of the "smart" features disabled.

Geobits

Chromecast is great ime

Downgoat

@mınxomaτ i dont but i can tell you that apple tv works great if you like 50 minute latency in screen mirroring

Gabriel Benamy

:33923416 wop

mınxomaτ

@Downgoat Or I could not use an Apple TV and remain sane.

Martin Ender

18:35

Does anyone own A New Kind of Science (ideally digitally) and can tell me whether it actually contains the complexity classes of all 256 elementary automata? (if it does, it should be around page 223)

Poke

yeah i don't understand why smart tv's are "the thing" lately... unfortunately if you want a dank 4k oled display, chances are it's also smart

Kritixi Lithos

> dank... memes

Poke

was looking at net traffic to/from my friends' smart tv. there's a webserver running on it that just serves "Hello world"

like wtf

Geobits

TVs really shouldn't be dank. Not good for the circuitry at all.

8

Poke

well put

mınxomaτ

18:37

@Poke I don't get why they are so slow in general. If you sell me a $3k TV, then use a proper CPU (like $200 more is going to hurt) ...

Poke

@mınxomaτ probably the same reason battery technology still sucks

Geobits

Yeah, the Vizio my parents have has a stupid slow menu.

mınxomaτ

Most that I've seen perform like 2nd gen android smartphones.

The quality from the LG PF1000U is amazing though, I do not miss the TV experience.

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

@Poke hahaha

Poke

at some point we're going to inspect the traffic when it updates

then own it

Stewie Griffin

18:40

Comments? Can I post this as it is now? It has +3 in the Sandbox.

Is Peter T. correct, is it really a dupe?

Kritixi Lithos

Wait for 5 minutes

Before posting it

Yodle

@Poke You should mess with them somehow, like alter the speed at which stuff is displayed on screen. Decrease the speed reallllllllly slowly over the course of a long period of time so they can't tell it's happening.

Poke

It's tim's tv

so no

>.<

Yodle

Or just do one of those X movie, but sped up whenever they say Y.

Ahh, well in that case we'll have to think of something special

Poke

well i'm waiting for him to do it since we have an update available that's been available for months at this point

just waiting for it to get owned remotely

betseg

18:46

Let's say I have lang A and lang B. Lang A is a golfing lang. AaA is a body in that lang. You can make that into a func using f=AaA. AaA is accepted in code-golf. Let's say B isn't a golfing lang. Func1();Func2(); is the body. But this isn't accepted. You have to do f(){Func1();Func2();}. Why?

Poke

i'd say "good thing we're on different routers" but then he'd make fun of me for previously hosting a webserver on my main desktop

@betseg Func1();Func2(); is a snippet

Yodle

CMC: How long would it take to go through TNB's entire message history if you started scrolling at 1 message/sec but sped it up by .5 messags/sec every time someone mentioned the words 'code' or 'golf'.

betseg

@Poke but in Lang A, AaA is a snippet too. But people don't write f=AaA, they just write AaA

Poke

do you have a more concrete example

for some languages "just a body" can constitute a full program

for many golfing languages output is not explicit

betseg

For example, (I don't know apl this is the first one I found plz don't hit me) codegolf.stackexchange.com/a/68299/56721

Can this be a full program?

Or people do this without the h=

Or this, again, without h=

Kritixi Lithos

18:56

@StewieGriffin Post it

Yodle

@betseg When I write lambda's in C#, I exclude the func_name=, but someone mentioned on one of my posts that I should include it if I have a recursive call in the lambda, which makes sense imo (otherwise, the function name would be meaningless inside the body).

Geobits

I don't write lambdas in Java specifically for this reason. It feels dirty to me.

(for golfing that is)

Yodle

I, however, don't include the Func<T,...> name; either, since most people seem to exclude that.

Geobits

Right, that's the part that feels dirty. If it was fully specified it would be fine.

Yodle

Yeah, it feels wrong since technically if you copy/paste a solution that is just n=>{...}; into a program with nothing else, it won't compile unless you define it a name and that has to have type func blah blah blah.

But it makes for shorter answers!

Geobits

19:00

I started calling my answers Java 7 just to (sometimes) stop people from commenting that.

Meh, I'd rather lose with a function than win because of a lambda.

Kritixi Lithos

^^

TimmyD

It's rare for an answer in PowerShell to be shorter as a function, since param($n) (as a script executed from the command line) is shorter than filter f($n) (as a function)

betseg

So, can I post (x)puts(x) and say it's lambda in C (like #define f(x)puts(x))

Yodle

Well, even with doing that I don't think I'm gonna win anything, I just like using them since before I started golfing I really had no idea how lambdas worked (never really understood them in the classes I took)

Geobits

@Yodle Oh sure. There's nothing wrong with lambdas, I just don't like the way they're counted for golfing purposes.

Gabriel Benamy

19:02

betseg

Wut

Poke

@Geobits I've still gotten comments that i could use a lambda with java 8 to save like 10 bytes

Geobits

Yeah, I still do sometimes too.

Gabriel Benamy

@betseg You heard me, I said

Poke

i'm just stuck in my java 7 ways

TimmyD

19:03

@Poke You could use a different language and save 60 bytes :p

Poke

redhat still supports it so i feel justified

@TimmyD whoa you're right

brb

Yodle

It's like saying hey, you can save 99% of your bytes by using a golfing language!

Ninja'd

betseg

I use C just to not use C++ and lambdas /s

Geobits

@TimmyD Just 60? You picked the wrong language :P

Xanderhall

@Poke I don't bother with comments like that as long as the person has specified Java 7 or earlier

Geobits

19:09

Yeah, that's supposed to be the point of putting the 7 in there (at least for me). It doesn't work on everyone.

Poke

someday i'll learn all of the new fun and exciting java 8 things

like a real datetime library

Geobits

I like Java 8. Like I said, I just disagree with the counting here.

Xanderhall

I personally just wish imports didn't have to count. It ruins so many Java 8 answers for me

Kritixi Lithos

I have an unused Herbert Schildt's Reference/Guide for Java SE 8

Geobits

@Xanderhall Almost anything with streams for sure :/

Yodle

19:10

from * import *

4

betseg

ಠ_ಠ

Yodle

Well, I guess for java it'd be import java.*;

Xanderhall

@Geobits Yeah. Streams are so good for doing things with lists of numbers. But the import kills it

Kritixi Lithos

Lambdas are a key part of the book

Poke

@KritixiLithos how much was that :P

Geobits

19:11

If you're going to make it up, why even bother with the java. part? Just import *; :P

Poke

@Yodle not everything is under java

Xanderhall

@Yodle Nope. That only imports the layer, not everything nested in it.

Poke

again, geobits

honestly

sdfalkdfjaldf

Yodle

@Xanderhall I know, but if it did, it'd work ;)

Geobits

@Poke :D

Xanderhall

19:11

import java.util.* doesn't import java.util.stream.*

@Yodle ...

Kritixi Lithos

@Poke Dunno, my parents bought it for me. I have so far only used it to create a program that will delete every file in your computer

Poke

sounds like it was worth it

betseg

C can't #include * :(

Yodle

@KritixiLithos I have a book titled something like "Squashing bugs in Visual Basic" from the 90's that I got from my school's We Don't Need These Anymore pile. It has a picture of a giant cockroach on the front.

Kritixi Lithos

Sure learnt a lot of File IO

Xanderhall

19:13

Was there a discussion on why imports should count towards your byte count?

TuxCopter

@betseg But you can #define true false

Or NULL 1

Xanderhall

I understand the concern about using some external library

TuxCopter

Or any other fun thing that uberbork any codebase

Geobits

HeavyJava: Just like regular Java, but it automatically adds a header to every file that imports everything in the standard libraries.

Kritixi Lithos

@Yodle lol

betseg

19:13

@TuxCopter Even after including stdbool.h?

TuxCopter

?

betseg

@TuxCopter even after including unistd.h?

Poke

7

Q: On scoring imported functions

There are lots of questions about whether to count the bytes in an import statement, etc. This question is not about that. Instead, this question is more inline with this question but I think it would be considered off topic/distinct. Again, assume standard library imports are allowed at least, ...

maybe

Yodle

@Geobits If you make it, I'll use it.

TuxCopter

Ah, well obviously to make this work it needs to be after includes

Geobits

19:15

@Yodle If you use it I'll downvote it :P

betseg

@TuxCopter woah it only gives a warning and that's it

TuxCopter

@Geobits If you downvote it I'll upvote it

Kritixi Lithos

@Geobits No surprise there

Geobits

@TuxCopter No surprise there

Yodle

import java.suprise;

betseg

19:17

If you use it I'll post ಠ_ಠ

Yodle

there, how there's a suprise.

Xanderhall

@Poke That one doesn't seem to be about whether or not to actually count imports.

TuxCopter

@betseg If you ಠ_ಠ it I'll do nothing

Geobits

@Yodle SurpriseNotRegisteredException thrown at line 33924265

Poke

4

Q: should imports/includes count in golf

follow the title mainly I'm asking this so I know whether to count all the import declarations that are required for the code to run successfully (especially when the import/include is required in the language like in D)

discussion code-golf

comments on the question maybe

Gabriel Benamy

19:21

so did you guys know that it's possible to prove that 42 is actually the Ultimate Answer?

betseg

No?

Geobits

Prove or "prove"?

Gabriel Benamy

I proved it a few years ago

TuxCopter

@GabrielBenamy 42-42+42 = 42

mind-mind+mind = blown

betseg

@TuxCopter bruh

Kritixi Lithos

19:22

@TuxCopter I see what you did there...

Xanderhall

#define return if (std::rand() < 2) throw std::exception(); else return

Gabriel Benamy

42 is the code point for the asterisk *, which represents any string of characters of length 0 or more. No matter what you're searching for, * will find it. No matter what the question is, 42 is the answer.

Kritixi Lithos

Regex ftw

betseg

@GabrielBenamy :O

Poke

What do you get if you multiply six by nine

Kritixi Lithos

19:23

42

betseg

@GabrielBenamy Is this on coincidence? I think not!

Poke

@KritixiLithos yay base 13

Gabriel Benamy

@Poke you get an illegal scrabble tileset because scrabble only has 2 Y tiles, but that question used 4

Geobits

@GabrielBenamy That's just silly. Everyone knows code point 42 is B.

Kritixi Lithos

Talking about bases, Processing has a unhex() builtin: processing.org/reference/unhex_.html

betseg

19:26

Drop the base!

(into acid)

Geobits

Too fizzy for me

Poke

could also be 1+8*5+1

just messed up the order of operations

Kritixi Lithos

@betseg No thanks, I don't want salt dissolved in water

Geobits

@Poke No no, that's 46. Or 49. 42 would be too consistent for this kind of thing.

Poke

@GabrielBenamy star for the lesser known reference

Geobits

19:30

But... scrabble tiles are routinely used for two words each.

Gabriel Benamy

@Geobits Not the way they were playing in the book

Geobits

It's been a long time since I've read it, but how do you play scrabble with no interlocking words?

Gabriel Benamy

Arthur was just pulling tiles out of the bag one by one and throwing them at Ford

New Main Posts

0

Q: Transpile WordMath

We've all seen those online "maths hax" that look like this: Think of a number, divide by 2, multiply by 0, add 8. And, by magic, everyone ends up with the number 8! Language Let's define a programming language which uses the syntax of the text above, called "WordMath". WordMath scripts fo...

code-golf arithmetic parsing interpreter integer

Geobits

@GabrielBenamy Hmm. Sounds like both less and more fun than the usual rules.

betseg

19:37

Good night!

New Main Posts

0

Q: Binary to decimal converter

Binary to decimal converter As far as I can see, we don't have a simple binary to decimal conversion challenge. Write a program or function that takes a positive binary integer and outputs it decimal value. You are not allowed to use any builtin base conversion functions. Rules: The code ...

code-golf base-conversion binary

Lembik

hi all

Gabriel Benamy

hi

DJMcMayhem

20:01

Muahaha, brain-flak is shorter than Python!

wizzwizz4

@DJMcMayhem Why did you have to post just as my "messages since active" counter reached a nice round power of two?

Sherlock9

I have "should I post or comment" question: the only Python answer for Reverse Deltas is 54 bytes. With two tricks I'm down to 42 bytes. Post or comment?

DJMcMayhem

How similar are they?

TuxCopter

HALP

wizzwizz4

@Sherlock9 If it's just tricks, comment. If it's a refactoring, post.

TuxCopter

20:05

C# don't have binary literals

wizzwizz4

@TuxCopter Use C instead.

TuxCopter

C is confusing

DJMcMayhem

@Sherlock9 it's actually 37 now. :P

Sherlock9

He uses l[i] for i in range(len(l)), I use j for j in l

@DJMcMayhem I reloaded and it still says 54 bytes. What do you mean?

wizzwizz4

@Sherlock9 That's a comment, imo. But your decision entirely.

Sherlock9

20:07

Yeah, I thought so. Thanks :D

DJMcMayhem

@Sherlock9 oh, I thought you were talking about a different challenge. Nvmd

New Sandboxed Posts

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Sandbox Questions Is this a unique challenge? Is it unambiguous enough to be posted? Display a Digital Clock codegolf Write some code that continuously updates a digital clock displayed in the format h:m:s where h, m, and s can occupy 1 or 2 characters each. Newlines are not allowed Trail...

wizzwizz4

@NewSandboxedPosts I'm certain I've seen that before...

Sherlock9

@DJMcMayhem What challenge were you thinking of?

PhiNotPi

So I retuned an electronic keyboard to have a 12-note subset of 19edo tuning... it's pretty great.

DJMcMayhem

20:14

3

Q: Binary to decimal converter

Binary to decimal converter As far as I can see, we don't have a simple binary to decimal conversion challenge. Write a program or function that takes a positive binary integer and outputs it decimal value. You are not allowed to use any builtin base conversion functions. Rules: The code ...

code-golf base-conversion binary

Sherlock9

Ooh, that's a very nice Python answer :D

DJMcMayhem

Yeah, for a short moment I was beating it in brain-flak, lol

Gabriel Benamy

my head is heavy and i can't think and i have another hour and a half left of work

TimmyD

@wizzwizz4 How does your binary answer not run afoul of "You are not allowed to use any builtin base conversion functions."?

wizzwizz4

@TimmyD It's not a function, it's a language feature. In some implementations of ES6, it works via a (hackish!) internal eval.

I'll delete if it's deemed wrong; it was quite a low-effort solution.

TimmyD

20:28

Seems like that's just arguing semantics.

Gabriel Benamy

no builtins. that means no functions. you must manually write to STDOUT directly, the result of your hard-coded solution for every possible input.

no shortcuts like "print" allowed

Geobits

I have a solution that outputs the answer as piles of sand of varying sizes. Does that count?

Gabriel Benamy

depends on where the sand comes from

Geobits

From the beach. It doesn't create them, just shuffles them around to form piles.

Conor O'Brien

@Downgoat will do once I arrive at home

Gabriel Benamy

20:34

okay but you have to hardcode the signals to the machine that organizes the sand

Geobits

It's all mechanical.

Input is also piles of sand.

Gabriel Benamy

how do you input a binary pile of sand

wizzwizz4

@GabrielBenamy It's tricky...

Geobits

Lots of gates and scales, with a pile over a certain size/weight being a 1 input, else 0.

TimmyD

@Geobits Yeah, but then you run into sorites paradox ...

Geobits

20:38

Is that the one where there's no such thing as a pile of sand (or that a single grain is a pile)?

TimmyD

Right.

Geobits

Yeah, probably best to make sure you define a hard cutoff.

Also, the challenge says "The code must support binary numbers up to the highest numeric value your language supports (by default)". What if my chosen language doesn't have numeric support by default? Can I just input/output nothing?

TimmyD

Then, according to this site, it's not a language.

Pseudo ninjedit?

wizzwizz4

@TimmyD What if it has string support?

Geobits

I'm wondering about the "by default" bit mainly. What if I have to import something to get numbers?

Gabriel Benamy

20:41

@Geobits That's a really sorry excuse for a language

Geobits

I've seen some sorry excuses for languages here, so that's not a showstopper :P

TimmyD

Yeah, that's where the "pseudo ninjedit" came from ... that would still be a language according to this site.

Gabriel Benamy

is COW one of them?

Geobits

I don't know COW. Haven't even seen it.

Just seen chat about it.

Gabriel Benamy

4

A: Make big rocks into small rocks

COW, 297 291 bytes MoOMoOMoOMoOMoOMoOMoOMoOMoOMoOmoOMoOmoOmoOoommOoMoOMOOmoOMMMmoOMMMmoOOOOMoOmOoMOOMOomoOmoO MOOMOomOoMOomoOmoomOoMMMOOOMoOmoOMMMmOomOomoomoOmoOMOOMOomOomOomOoMOomoOmoOmoOmoomOomOomOo mOomOoMMMmoOMMMMOOMOomoOOOMmOomOoMoOmoOmoomOomOoMoomoOmoOmoOMOOMOoMOomoOMoOmOomoomoOMMMOOO mOoM...

Geobits

20:42

If it's a bf-derivitave of moo, then yes :P

Gabriel Benamy

TimmyD

Sierpinski pyramid drawn with a single line?

Gabriel Benamy

it's a 3d sierpinski arrowhead curve

Dada

it looks nice... I hope you wrote to generate it in Cow!

TuxCopter

lol

Gabriel Benamy

20:54

LOL I wish! But I found it online, sadly

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