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12:00 AM
Should I make it so that the cop has to come up with their own solution to the problem?
 
should we ban lenguage from polyglotting?
or other things?
 
What is lenguage
 
Pro tip: when you find yourself saying "should we ban... other things" there's something wrong with the challenge.
@Qwerp-Derp It's kind of like Unary
 
@quartata Ah
 
12:02 AM
@WheatWizard LOL
 
just missed the cap
 
RIP
 
But can you fit the entire source code for a prime checker in Lenguage in 1kb?
 
@Qwerp-Derp Definitely not.
 
Exactly, so you can't submit Lenguage
 
12:03 AM
I meant as in, for polyglotting with the cops langs
 
Ah yeah
@DestructibleWatermelon Definitely
 
A better question is could you fit it in 10^50 KB
 
But should we limit the final program length of the polyglot "Hello, World!"?
Like to 1kb or 2kb?
 
how about this: if it's short enough to fit in the answer, it's valid
and the programs default hello world should be a certain length, too
 
@WheatWizard have you ever capped before?
 
12:05 AM
But 30kb is pushing it a bit
It should be shorter, IMO
 
Not in PPCG
I capped in infosec today
 
my face when I try to screenshot something in chat, but chat moves
 
So what language should be available to be polyglotted?
The whole of Esolang? Or the most commonly used programming languages?
 
@miles I was hosting Jelly elsewhere before I published it on GitHub. I'd have to check. As for the idea, that's kinda hard to pinpoint. Shortly after the Biplex challenge iirc.
 
@WheatWizard oh, nice. I was one vote away, haha
 
12:09 AM
@Qwerp-Derp it probably won't ever be that long, but it's a reasonable limit, without being arbitrary
also you should be required to post the hello world program
 
Wait what
Who should be required
Cop or robber?
 
cop, should post the base program, but robber post the polyglot
otherwise cop just make no output
 
True
But then the "prime checker" and the "adder" basically means that you have to support output in your lang
 
I've got exactly one Mortarboard each on PPCG, SO, Meta, EL&U, and Puzzling. I have no idea why I can't get more than one anywhere :/
 
@Qwerp-Derp integer output?
 
12:14 AM
@Geobits mortarboard can only be given once
 
Yeah, that's enough
You're allowed to output the ASCII codes for "Hello, World!" if the language doesn't support ASCII output
 
No, I mean I'm pretty sure I've only ever capped once on each site also.
I could be wrong.
 
I've capped nine times here. Sloooowly working towards epic.
 
Ok, it turns out I was very wrong. I've capped 3 times here, 5 times on SO, 3 on Meta, 4 on Puzzling, and 3 on EL&U. So 18 times total. Much better than I thought :D
I don't remember a lot of those lol
 
My record is 194 :(
 
12:35 AM
My record is 198, and that's including assoc bonus
 
Tip: write a 50+vote question
 
@HelkaHomba How many of those have you made?
 
Looks like 28? But I'm being cheeky. Even I never know how well a question will be received
 
@miles Did some digging, and I'd say it's November 5, 2015. I had considered making a J/APL-like golfing language before, but that's when I had the first concrete idea.
in The Twentieth Byte, Nov 5 '15 at 2:41, by Dennis
I was thinking that if we make a language that doesn't overload operators with a monadic and a dyadic functions, trains could be much better. There would be no less confusion regarding which type of train the coder is trying to build.
 
y u mod room @Dennis ;_;
 
12:43 AM
@HelkaHomba only done that twice
 
says Helka Homba Jr.
 
@Dennis You guys talk about non-moderation things in 20B?
 
@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ :D that's one of the best compliments I can imagine
 
lol
@DJMcMayhem thanks
 
Posted cops-and-robbers thing!
In the sandbox!
 
12:50 AM
@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ The only difference is that helka regularly posts 50-60+ challenges, and I regularly post 15-20+ challenges...
 
Does anyone know where I can find a tutorial on Jekyll
 
the interblag
</badpun>
 
All I can find is stuff on it + GH pages. I don't want to host it on pages
I'd rather host it myself and actually get to use some of its features
 
12:55 AM
Question: what's a word for a "method that exists on all classes"?
:O 9 more days until 500
 
@Downgoat all?
 
e.g. JavaScript's valueOf/toString
 
@quartata Rarely. It happened more frequently when Alex and I just achieved mod status.
 
it's probably on the Object prototype then
 
Do your classes all derive from a superclass like Object ?
 
12:57 AM
this is for java homework
> What is toString?
I am trying to answer "it is a _____ method"
 
@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ This... is definitely not the right Jekyll
 
@Downgoat "shitty"?
 
@Downgoat toString isn't a class at all.
 
more seriously, magic method?
@Geobits ^
 
non-
 
12:58 AM
@Geobits shit whoops
 
@Downgoat A method inherited from Object that you can override to specify the string representation of an object
 
:/ idk
 
Yeah, inherited is best here.
 
@Downgoat! Watcha taking an intro Java course for!? You know all the best resources are online...
 
12:59 AM
It is "AP CS" but is feeling like "AP Java"
 
@noɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC Because it's a prerequisite for stuff you can't get online
 
@Downgoat That's what CS stands for, didn't you know? Coffee Studies.
 
@quartata aye, but lots of universities let you take a test to skip a course
 
And lots don't
 
@Geobits I am wondering how long it took you to come up with that expansion of CS
 
1:01 AM
Or do, but only a certain amount per year, or only for certain classes, etc.
@Downgoat Not long. The coffee part was easy, being java ;)
 
@noɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC I wish I could test out of this class but now it's too late. Deadline for class changes was Oct. 6
 
ah, academia. full of people who don't know anything about computer programming
 
Strong statement.
 
@Downgoat just don't invest too much time - maybe talk about Cheddar to impress?
 
I did and she does not understand anything that is not Java
"What is this implicit typing"
 
1:03 AM
@Downgoat WTF?
 
hey, I'm considering starting a chat room where we play a game where the game evolves as people add/remove rules. Is this something you guys would want to participate in?
 
Damn she knows nothing
 
@NathanMerrill nomic
 
@Downgoat wait seriously?
 
@NathanMerrill Sounds fun!
 
1:03 AM
yes, so much yes make nomic room
I actually already wanted to play
 
@noɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC "Those who can't do, teach"
 
@DestructibleWatermelon I didn't know if anybody else knew that term :)
 
:32768445 yes, but time costs
 
@NathanMerrill Definitely
 
make it now
 
1:04 AM
(a bit disrespecting to most teachers but it covers quite a bit)
 
well, I'm actually going to make a chat room where we discuss the initial ruleset
as you kind of need groundrules
 
Rule #1: This is the final rule, and no more can be added
 
@NathanMerrill regular nomic rules
except prng instead of dice
 
Rule #2: Goats dont follow rules, the dokt-er does not tell me what i can eat, I do!
 
@DestructibleWatermelon I don't want to just inherit them, but I will definitely be using some of them
 
1:06 AM
@NathanMerrill Also because this is chat you need rules for what happens when someone is not online
 
@NathanMerrill rubs hands excitedly
 

 PPCG Nomic

Let's figure out a new nomic
 
> Time: 5:00
> Goat: Logs on to TNB
> Goat: Posts ~5 messages
> Time: 6:10
wat
 
Define nomic?
 
a game where the rules are changed as part of the game
 
1:07 AM
Just wanted to say that I learned more from my CS professors (and my father) than I ever will from online tutorials. Sure HS CS teachers are usually bad but your professors will be invaluable later on if you know how to communicate with them
 
Jeez, it's been a while since I've straight-up quit a challenge, but KITT made me throw my hands up in defeat.
 
> Write on the paper to be handed in the toString method
pls halp my brain gets runtime error on this message
 
@StevenH. Merriam Webster says it's: relating to a musical nome
 
what does this even mean
 
1:09 AM
On the paper to be handed in, write the toString method.
 
@Downgoat write a toString method
 
And then hand it in :P
 
I would write "syntax error"
 
oh
I thought it meant to write on a paper which would be handed in to a toString method
 
step 1 of working with CS professors: be prepared to deal with bad grammar
 
1:10 AM
It's parseable English, if a bit of an odd construction.
 
last chance to change your major to some form of liberal arts and get professors who can spell
 
I think the main reason it sounds weird is that the second prep phrase (to be handed in) ends in another preposition, so your brain is ready for that to start another phrase.
 
0
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Qwerp-DerpMake an un-polyglot-able language! cops-and-robbers The cops' task is to create a language that is as hard to polyglot as possible. However, when making a language, you must follow these rules: ASCII characters only. The language must fit our definition of programming language, i.e. it must b...

 
@quartata brb taking art at local community college
 
Also, super-passive voicing :/
 
1:13 AM
@Geobits this is why commas exist
 
You could make it sound better with commas ("Write, on the paper to be handed in, the toString method"), but you'd be better off rewording it ;)
I'm used to reading and listening to ESL, so the missing commas don't faze me all that much any more.
 
ESL?
 
english as a second langauge
 
oh
@noɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC ;_; english is first best language not second best language :P
I found @TùxCräftîñg's sock:
 
*first learned language
 
1:18 AM
:( no one boxing
 
0
Q: Sum evens between 0 and N

user1492032This one is rather easy, so try and get those bytes down calculate the sum of the even numbers between 0 and N Test cases are N=100, N=255, N=1000

 
^ What question is this
 
I know I can golf this further, anyone that's good with strings around?
0
A: It's time to make a histogram

Steven H.Pyth, 76 bytes This code is absolutely disgusting. I've mentioned before how bad I am at golfing string-output challenges, right? J_Mr8Smf>+*T/-h.MZQKh.mbQ.EllQKd)Q)=Y_.tUMme@+J]0xhMJdSheJ;jmj""m@"▉ "qk\ dY Explanation to follow. Test it out online!

 
Anyone here know how to use illustrator / photoshop / similar to make a numbered grid as such? boardgamegeek.com/image/484979/acquire?size=large
 
@NewMainPosts 31 bytes in Java :/
 
1:36 AM
CMC: Convert a given amount of seconds to hh:mm:ss format in Java
 
CMC: Do your own homework :P
7
 
;_;
how come we can outsource dinner ideas but not homework
 
I've actually been procrastinating, so thanks for the reminder
 
91
A: Convert seconds value to hours minutes seconds?

BigtoesIs it necessary to use a BigDecimal? If you don't have to, I'd use an int or long for seconds, and it would simplify things a little bit: hours = totalSecs / 3600; minutes = (totalSecs % 3600) / 60; seconds = totalSecs % 60; timeString = String.format("%02d:%02d:%02d", hours, minutes, seconds);...

:O Geobits answered my CMC 5 years in advance
4
 
@Downgoat I still have absolutely no idea why this has so many votes.
 
1:40 AM
@Downgoat s/geobits/bigtoes
 
TIL Downvote buttons have toes
 
This is simply impressive. I wonder how modulus could work in this way. — PSo Sep 13 at 9:11
:/
 
Obviously doesn't understand how modulus works in anyway
 
> Join Us for Coffees with the Superintendent
I would like to join the superintendent to ask them why they can't get their damn grammar right :/
ironic considering the person who posted this is the English department admin
 
0
Q: Super Folding Numbers

Wheat WizardWe have already defined a folding number here. But now we are going to define a Super Folding Number. A Super Folding number is a number that if folded enough times it will eventually reach one less than a power of two. The folding algorithm goes as follows: Take the binary representation e...

 
1:52 AM
@Mego Thanks for the bug fix of that, too :D
It was on Oct 2 and the unlucky numbers challenge was on Sept 27, so I'm stuck again, but thanks.
 
2:25 AM
@Dennis can you update cheddar on TIO
 
@Downgoat are you doing edhesive?
I remember that problem from last year
 
I am doing Worksheet 06C ._.
no idea what edhesive is
 
@Downgoat ap java thing
they didn't have enough kids in my school taking it to dedicate a class period, so they used this
 
@El'endiaStarman I asked a metric ton of questions in the Pytek room by the way
In case you didn't see them
 
@quartata pytek sounds great, but auugggh that syntax
including but not limited to the \f()'s
 
2:36 AM
Well all the great languages have some form of syntax meme right
 
CMC: Output the prime factors of the id of your last chat message. e.g. This is message 32769591 as can be seen from the permalink
 
Lisp has its parens Perl has its sigils and Pytek has its backslashes
 
@quartata not just the backslashes
 
Any Befunge experts here?
 
@Dennis judging from his polyglot, Martin
 
2:42 AM
@HelkaHomba print"557x58831" for my last message.
Lucked out with exactly two factors.
 
@DJMcMayhem Not exactly here though. I got an answer to my hyperquine challenge, but g seems fishy.
 
@Maltysen What else bothers you?
 
function definitions
with the func:
 
How is that different from func or def in any other language?
 
the colon
also, lack of special syntax for control flow
 
2:46 AM
What do you mean? Fors and whiles are the same as in Python
the colon is also used for type specifiers which is why we used it for func
 
in Pytek, Oct 2 at 1:35, by El'endia Starman
func:f(x){a,b=0,1\for(x){a,b=b,a+b}} should be the loop version. Lemme see if it works.
you need commas there and stuff
 
That's golfed
 
@quartata well why are you using colons for types instead of spaces like normal languages?
like int x=5; and func my_fun
 
The commas is multiple assignment
 
ohhhhhhh
 
2:51 AM
\for(x) -> \repeat(x)
The parser doesn't really need whitespace. That's why golfed code looks hella weird
And the colons are also used for type coercion; we wanted to keep it consistent. Swift (and also Cheddar :PP) use colon for types
 
Your personal favorite programming construct? - strawpoll.me/11378766
 
Goto. :P
 
@HelkaHomba loop-else
 
@DJMcMayhem Goto is really great and can do all things
 
3:07 AM
@Maltysen looples?
 
@HelkaHomba its a snek thing
 
0
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

WallyWestCorrelation Coefficient of Words This is going to be relatively quick... Challenge Given a lower-case word as input, calculate the Pearson's Correlation Coefficient between the letter position of the word (nth letter within the word, x), and the letter position within the alphabet (nth letter ...

 
@DJMcMayhem If you like GOTO you'll love ALTERed GOTO.
 
Please no. >_<
 
3:22 AM
@HelkaHomba do you mean primitive construct or like higher-level constructs too?
 
as primitive as goats
 
That's cold. Cold like a goat's heart.
 
As cold as leftover goat stew
 
;_; y u gotta be so maen to gaots
 
3:40 AM
Pretty sure nobody said anything about gaots at all.
 
dammit too late to edit
<insert dumb excuse on why gaots == goat >
 
@Downgoat Favorite book? - strawpoll.me/11378914
 
@Dennis thanks for satisfying my curiosity
 
@HelkaHomba I prefer The Goats of Wrath or I Know Why the Caged Goat Bleats.
 
@quartata I did see them. I see all that goes on in that room. :P
 
3:54 AM
@Geobits You've goat to be kidding
 
Goat puns? Thank god, I goat this
Give me all you goat
 
@HelkaHomba Oh, right. I forgot all about Goat Emperor of Dune.
 
Nothing bleats that
 
@miles NP In the spirit of completeness, the first commit to a (private) repo was on November 27, 2015.
Not sure why I wanted a private repo so badly, although the commits are rather painful to look at.
 
4:10 AM
Back in the glory days, there were only sums and products
monads = 'Σ∏'

dyads = '+×'

joints = ' '
 
My favorite:
> Dennis . 243bd31 added regex hell 2015-12-03
 
Now, to contrive something so bad everyone will stop forever: Hairy Bleater and the [ Philosopher's Goat, Goat of Secrets, Prisoner of Capricorn, Goat on Fire, Order of the Feta, Half-Goat Prints, Bleaty Hollers]
 
twitches
 
My favorite:

> Dennis . fd6b3d8 heresy 2015-11-29
In which you indent three lines and nothing more
 
That one replaced spaces that somehow snuck in with tabs.
 
4:16 AM
Changing spaces to tabs is always worth a commit.
 
@Geobits No, just no.
0
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Qwerp-DerpMake an un-polyglot-able language! cops-and-robbers The cops' task is to create a language that is as hard to polyglot as possible. However, when making a language, you must follow these rules: ASCII characters only. The language must fit our definition of programming language, i.e. it must b...

 
@Qwerp-Derp Is that in response to Geobits' butchered series of Harry Potter knockoffs?
 
Butchered is putting it mildly.
 
Yes, and as well as that, I was also referring to the need to convert to tabs.
@Dennis Wait what, there needs to be an objective winning criterion for robbers as well?
 
@Qwerp-Derp That doesn't sound right. That no would be a yes if you were.
 
4:23 AM
@Qwerp-Derp Two challenges, two winning criteria.
 
True, but I haven't seen any winning criteria for robbers in a cops-and-robbers challenge.
I guess it's probably because I don't look hard enough...
@Dennis I can just do "Whoever cracked the most submissions", right?
 
It's usually number of cracked submissions, yes. You need a tiebreaker though.
 
@Dennis What do you mean by "specific hash"?
Also, how bad am I if I have to ask this question?
 
It means they make the program, which has a hash value. they make the interpreter fail on any input that doesn't have the same hash value
 
4:28 AM
How do I circumvent that, though?
 
well, did anyone make a language where it would do the task iff the program had the right hash for that other cops and robbers challenge?
 
It just said that (and I quote):
"Using encryption, hashes, or other cryptographic methods. If you see a language that employs RSA encryption, or refuses to execute a program unless its SHA-3 hash is equal to 0x1936206392306, please do not hesitate to downvote."
 
@Qwerp-Derp As it is, this would be a valid submission:
import hashlib

sum_n_prime = '5e247c455fde7711206ebaa3ad0793114b77a6d16ed0497eff8e3bf98c6dba23'
hello_world = 'cce23f5788907b9d7996c86775e0ff3f6b0e37c4624a325171801e43b7854344'

source = open(0).read()
if hashlib.sha256(source.encode()).hexdigest() in (sum_n_prime, hello_world):
	eval(source)
else:
	print('curses')
 
@Dennis How would I circumvent that, though?
Or is the only way to encourage people to downvote?
Should I just say "You are not allowed to use encryption to generate a program in any way"?
 
No. If the score is the byte count, downvotes are meaningless.
 
4:34 AM
True.
 
Hashing is not encryption.
 
Feq
How do I do it then?
I don't know
 
That's the million dollar question and why we only have a CnR every once in a while. :P The first CnR's only banned built-in cryptography, but cops can easily code their own.
 
D:
So pop-con then?
 
what about a challenge about developing polyglottable languages?
 
4:36 AM
honestly, i think your disclaimer is the best you can do
 
We only had a one CnR pop con. 14 answers is a propably a record for the otherwise highly popular CnR challenges.
 
(That was the one I referred to)
 
@DJMcMayhem: V
 
"Any language that uses encryption of any kind will be immediately disqualified."
 
@El'endiaStarman That's funny, I literally just read that about 10 seconds ago.
 
4:38 AM
That seems pretty bad...
 
moorhen, were it made for the challenge, would fail
 
@DestructibleWatermelon Yeah...
But what else can I do?
 
@Qwerp-Derp Again, define encryption. RSA is just modular exponentiation. If RSA is banned, are ** and % banned too?
 
@Dennis Argh, there's nothing I can do then, it's simply too hard
I get rid of a problem and then another comes up
 
I'm about to downvote/comment on this answer, which basically says, "Psssh, I'm not writing a program to solve this." Here's the response I typed. Do you think it's too harsh / too soft / just right?
> This is not an answer to the question. If you want to write some code to solve the problem, please do so; but if you just want to say you're not interested in solving this problem, that doesn't belong in an answer and should be deleted.
 
4:43 AM
I personally think that's too soft.
Did you flag the answer?
 
0
A: Shortest code to secure wipe a disk

Chad BaxterNot even gonna try golfing this code.

Wow.
 
@Qwerp-Derp Hm, didn't think about flagging.
(Also, looks like NoOneIsHere ninja'd me.)
 
@Dennis Should I just make it a pop-con?
 
@Dennis What was that thing about flagging vs deletion? Like sometimes one is preferable or not or something.
 
@HelkaHomba Casting a delete vote on a post that should be deleted is never wrong. If you have reasons to believe that the community won't be able to remove the post without mod intervention, cast a flag as well. In this case, since it was posted in chat and NAA flags only get shown to moderators after 30 minutes have passed, flag or not flag won't make a difference.
 
4:51 AM
Ok, once again I find myself requesting the help of the resident JS experts here. I've written something that pulls my tracks from spotify. Once I've got this data (each track is a JSON obj) I throw these in an array. Now I want to just filter out the names and
artists for each track, combine them into a plain old string (which they already are) and add that string to an array. This works fine, the chrome debugger shows correct values being added to the array. This is the REALLY wierd bit though. When I do console.log() of these values it always prints undefined... WHY??!!
 
In general: Comment, flag, wait for the eleven.
@Qwerp-Derp You can try. We only had one CnR pop con, which isn't enough data to determine whether it's a good idea.
 
@Dennis Either that, or I figure out a way to remove encryption completely.
But I have no idea how to do the latter
 
btw my code:
 
> 6 mins ago history deleted Dennis♦ via Vote
10/10 very democratic
 
function print() {
    alert("printing");
    for(var x = 0; x < 4; x++) {
        for(var n = 0; n < 100; n++) {
            try {
               // console.log(tracks[x].items[n].track.name + " " + tracks[x].items[n].track.artists[0].name);
               var deb = (tracks[x].items[n].track.name + " " + tracks[x].items[n].track.artists[0].name);
               complete[z] = deb;
                z++;
                console.log(deb); //throws no error, prints fine
                console.log(complete[z]); //prints undefined
 
4:54 AM
@Dennis Even with encryption, how is the author going to do a polyglot "Hello, World!"? The author has to make their own answer, you know.
 
because they make the polyglot
take the hash
and made
 
So after they make the polyglot, they hash it?
 
But then how would the hashed polyglot work for the other language (the one that the cop didn't submit)?
 
they can make it the obvious solution, or maybe they have a comment character, like in python, and make a random string
 
4:57 AM
How would the hash work for the non-polyglot solution with the extra comment char?
 
Here is how it might work:
 
Continue...
 
@AshwinGupta How are you initializing complete (or z)? Try complete.push(deb) instead of complete[z] = deb
 
Does hashing = encryption?
 
if the program has the hash that add has, it adds two numbers. If it has the hash prime has, it does prime check. If it has the hash that print("Hello, World!")#0xdeadbeefhahahahahahyou'll never get this program to workasvhjaDVJVSHADJKVDhjkvdhavkvahJVDAHJkdahk it prints "Hello, World!"
 
4:59 AM
I forget if you can advance js arrays like that by just mapping more indices
 

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