The Nineteenth Byte

orlp

3:01 AM

@ChrisJester-Young personally I'm starting to gravitate towards a statically typed compiled programming language, but with full macros and type inferrence support

Chris Jester-Young

@orlp You mean like Nemerle?

orlp

never heard of it

Alex A.

Nemerle

Nemerle is a general-purpose high-level statically typed programming language designed for platforms using the Common Language Infrastructure (.NET/Mono). It offers functional, object-oriented and imperative features. It has a simple C#-like syntax and a powerful metaprogramming system. In June 2012, the core developers of Nemerle were hired by the Czech software development company JetBrains. The team is focusing on the development of Nitra; a framework for implementing new and existing programming languages. This framework will likely be used to create future versions of Nemerle. The language...

orlp

on top of that I have another idea that I don't really see around

Alex A.

Curry on pancakes? Because that sounds weird

orlp

3:02 AM

I like functional programming, but only at a function level

Chris Jester-Young

The more I hear your ideas, the more I think you'll love Nemerle.

orlp

my idea was to mark functions as 'pure'

Chris Jester-Young

GCC has extensions for doing that.

orlp

meaning that given the same input they'll always return the same output

any function using only other pure functions is also pure

Chris Jester-Young

Granted, GCC extensions are for C and C++ only, but still.

orlp

3:04 AM

C++11 could've done this with constexpr but they made it totally backwards

Alex A.

Fortran 90+ (maybe 95+) has pure function

orlp

@ChrisJester-Young maybe I should rather say impure

pure would be the default

Chris Jester-Young

I see, impure as the annotation.

feersum

I always wonder how you are supposed to debug in Haskell, with the default pure functions like that

If you can't put a random print statement in smoewhere

orlp

the point is, pure implies constexpr, allows all kinds of optimizations / advantages that functional programming languages enjoy, but without being 'locked in' so to speak

fundamentally I like some advantages that func. programming has, but I personally believe in the von Neumann model

PhiNotPi

3:07 AM

So, in my language, lambdas are going to be implemented as a beautiful mix of Polish and Reverse Polish notation, so that everything can be done stack-based.

feersum

Sounds very readable.

orlp

I've been thinking about making a Haskell backend for Pyth5

however I don't know enough about Monads and stuff to know if it's possible

Alex A.

@PhiNotPi It'll be just like the border between Poland and Reverse Poland.

feersum

In OCaml, you can put side effects wherever the hell you want.

Alex A.

OCaml is chaos.

PhiNotPi

3:10 AM

So, if the normal way to perform some operations is A|+B* (array A, reduced with addition and then multiplied by B), then the lambda form will be *Y|+X

Doorknob

@Calvin'sHobbies Is that gzipped or not? I'd be willing to bet the percentage is at most half of that when taking into account gzip.

PhiNotPi

The | reduce is a modifier that has to be pushed on the stack before the + is parsed and added onto the lambda, so that, in the process of creating lambdas, the interpreter will know what modifiers are applied to each operator ahead of time. The * is regular Polish notation.

An equivalent way to write the lambda would be *|Y+X

The | modifies the first thing it can, which isn't the Y and is instead the + like before.

|*Y+X would be invalid though.

orlp

@ChrisJester-Young #!fold-case is an abomination :(

Chris Jester-Young

@orlp It is, except that it's the default behaviour in R5RS so it's required to be supported for compatibility with programs written from the R5RS era.

(That is to say, R5RS has case-insensitive symbols, and R6RS and R7RS have case-sensitive symbols by default.)

Uh, that's not strictly correct. R5RS symbols are case-sensitive too, but the R5RS reader case-folds any bare datums it reads.

orlp

@ChrisJester-Young I also do not like the way #t and #f are notated

Chris Jester-Young

3:21 AM

Why not? Then t and f are just readtable entries.

orlp

I also really like implicit conversion of bools to 0/1

Chris Jester-Young

In the same way that vectors are #(...) (so you can have a ( readtable entry), bytevectors are #u8(...) (unsigned 8-bit), which also allows you to have a u readtable entry (and s if you want to support signed).

orlp

I don't know what readtable is unfortunately :(

Chris Jester-Young

A readtable is a table that the reader uses to handle anything following a #.

orlp

@ChrisJester-Young if I had to invent a language, I'd have types such as i64 (64-bit int), u8 (unsigned 8-bit int), and bool would act as if it's u1, except having a bit more constructors

(there would be no type called u1 though)

Chris Jester-Young

3:25 AM

Of course, it's only worth having 8, 16, 32, and 64 (and maybe 128).

orlp

my ideal type system

has i/u8, 16, 32, 64, Int (arbitrary width), Rational, f32/64, bool

not sure how I would handle complex

Doorknob

@orlp Automatic bool-to-int coercion is... confusing at best. I've never seen the need, except in golf.

It's better to keep the types completely separate IMO.

Ypnypn

What's the point of so many int types?

orlp

@Doorknob It's incredibly useful, I use it a lot

Doorknob

@orlp For what?

@Ypnypn Why allocate 64 bits when you only need 8?

Ypnypn

3:28 AM

@Doorknob Yeah, but how often do you use 16 or 32?

orlp

@Doorknob binary flags, [1, 2, 3] + [4, 5, 6] * condition, counter += condition, etc

Doorknob

@Ypnypn When they're convenient. (And then they're super nice to have.)

orlp

@Ypnypn when you know you only need 16 bits

there would also be some template type, not sure of the name/or syntax, that would have arbitrary bit width

e.g. i64 = I<64>

but you could use I<31> if you'd please

Doorknob

@orlp That's needlessly confusing. Why not just if (condition) arr += [4, 5, 6] or if (condition) counter++? Seems much less... obfuscated.

orlp

@Doorknob I find it not confusing at all

Doorknob

3:31 AM

I think the if versions are much more readable.

They make much more intuitive sense.

orlp

I disagree, especially not in bigger expressions

Chris Jester-Young

I totally get using 0 for false and 1 for true, especially for assembly program (think SETcc in x86). But, meh.

Alex A.

@orlp Use Julia. :D

Doorknob

@orlp In any case, what you're really doing with counter += condition is "increment counter if condition," so why not write it that way instead of hiding it behind a coercion?

feersum

Array indexing would be a more annoying situation to not to have bool/int conversion.

Doorknob

3:32 AM

And for bigger expressions, ternaries also exist.

feersum

arr[cond]

Ypnypn

TI-Basic is also fun with this: 1>0<1 is false

Chris Jester-Young

@Doorknob Again, in assembly, being able to use SETcc instead of Jcc is faster, but that's a microoptimisation.

Doorknob

@feersum In what situation would you use that? The only one I can think of is if arr is const, in which case you can just use a ternary

Chris Jester-Young

e.g., SETZ AL == set AL to 1 if zero flag is set, otherwise to 0. JZ label == jump to label if zero flag is set. Conditional jumps are expensive.

(Well, less expensive if branch prediction is correct, but.)

feersum

3:34 AM

I'm sure I've used it, but can't remember one right now

Alex A.

@Doorknob In R, that syntax performs array subsetting.

Doorknob

@AlexA. What's... that?

feersum

Something I do a lot more is if(x & 1) to test for an odd number

Alex A.

@Doorknob What's R or what's array subsetting?

Chris Jester-Young

@AlexA. Surely the latter. Surely everyone knows what R is?

Alex A.

3:35 AM

Idk, just making sure

Doorknob

@feersum That's firmly in the "unnecessarily unreadable" realm for me. Especially considering a compiler is likely to optimize % 2 == 1 into that anyway.

@AlexA. Of course I know what R is. :P

feersum

@Doorknob What are you doing on Code Golf with your great love for verbose code :P

Alex A.

@Doorknob In R, you can select a piece of an array based on some condition. So if you have x <- c(1, 2, 3, 4), you can get the elements greater than 2 using x[x > 2], which returns the array c(3, 4).

Doorknob

@AlexA. Oh. That's not indexing with a bool though.

@feersum "Verbose"? Have you heard of such things as "readable code"? :P

Alex A.

@Doorknob x > 2 creates a bool vector

Chris Jester-Young

3:37 AM

@AlexA. x.select {|x| x > 2}

Doorknob

@AlexA. That's still not arr[true] or arr[false]

Chris Jester-Young

@AlexA. Ah yes, I remember that.

feersum

I find x & 1 more readable because there are much less words to parse and it is still obvious.

Alex A.

@Doorknob arr[true] in R would return the whole vector and arr[false] in R would return an empty vector.

Doorknob

Yes, but that's not what we were talking about.

Chris Jester-Young

3:39 AM

Anyway, I'm going to maximise my Apple event video now, so, I won't be reading this chatroom. :-P

orlp

ok this is a bit arbitrary but not an unfair example

def statistic(l):
    cnt = 0
    for e in l:
        if e % 2 == 1:
            cnt += 1
        if e < 0:
            cnt += 1
    return cnt

def statistic(l):
    return sum((e % 2) + (e < 0) for e in l)

Alex A.

@Doorknob I'm just saying what R does with that syntax since you asked feersum what one would do with that syntax.

I rarely have any idea what folks are talking about here because it's mostly over my head, but I try to contribute where I can. :P

orlp

I like the second version a lot more

Alex A.

(usually ends up being off topic)

orlp

maybe I'm weird like that

Alex A.

3:40 AM

I like the second version as well

Doorknob

@orlp ? 1 : 0 makes it much more clear what the intention is ("add one if it's negative"). And it makes it much easier to change if you want to add, say, 2 if it's negative ((e < 0) * 2 is much less readable than (e < 0) ? 2 : 0). Or if you want to add 2 if it's negative, 4 otherwise.

@AlexA. No, I asked him what you would do with indexing an array with a bool. The syntax doesn't really matter.

Alex A.

@Doorknob Okay, I apologize for interrupting, I misunderstood.

orlp

def statistic(l):
    return sum((1 if e % 2 == 1 else 0) + (1 if e < 0 else 0) for e in l)

sorry, I still like my version better

feersum

haha

Doorknob

Well, that's Python's fault, for having horrible horrible ternary syntax.

Even so, I'd argue that's much more intuitive than your version.

orlp

3:44 AM

def statistic(l):
    return sum((e % 2 ? 1 : 0) + (e < 0 ? 1 : 0) for e in l)

I still like my version better

even assuming if we had this ternary syntax

feersum

@orlp You forgot to put e % 2 != 0 !

Doorknob

The first ternary is unnecessary. And if you removed it, I would definitely prefer the second version.

orlp

@feersum well there you go

Doorknob

It makes much more sense, which is well worth the what, extra 8 or so chars?

orlp

@Doorknob I disagree

if you get in the mindset of bools == ints, then it's 8 extra chars to parse

and occam's razor applies

(e < 0) in my mind is a 0 or a 1

a[e < 0] in my mind is the first or the second element

Doorknob

3:47 AM

But bools aren't ints, and that mindset breaks down because you can't take Math.sin(aBool) or what have you.

orlp

a[e < 0:] either is the entire array, or shaves off the first characters

Doorknob

(Well, you could, but it wouldn't make much sense.)

orlp

@Doorknob Math.sin(aBool) is as nonsensical as Math.sin(1)

Alex A.

@orlp I'm used to programming in SAS, which only has two data types (neither of which are bools), so this is often how I think as well.

Doorknob

Have to go to sleep now.

Alex A.

3:47 AM

Goodnight!

orlp

that's just because sin makes no sense on integers

not because bools make no sense as integers

orlp

4:08 AM

a = array (e.g. [1, 2, 3])
s = string
i = integer (e.g. 5)
b = bool (e.g. (e < 0))
f = variable containing boolean flag

Falsey:
    [] (empty array)
    "" (empty string)
    0 (zero integer)

First or second element: a[b]
Full array or everything but first: a[b:]
Empty array or full array: a * b
Same array or cartesian product of itself: a ** b    (not in Python, is in Pyth)
Same integer or added one: i + b
Zero or unchanged: i * b
One or unchanged: i ** b
Toggling flag: f = 1 - f
Or: f |= b
And: f &= b

some examples / techniques with integer booleans

Dennis

@AlexA. I've updated my polyglot draft:

1

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Overcoming cluster size code-challenge polyglot string math ascii-art Fed up with the reliability of Flash storage, you decided to store all your programs on a good old 1,024,000 byte floppy. However, after copying not even 2,000 programs, the disk was full. How's that even possible? Skilled in...

feersum

@Dennis So "read a string" really means to read the entirety of stdin?

Reto Koradi

Are any of you going to try aditsu's pizza challenge? Looks pretty tough for code golf. At least right off the bat, I can't think of an approach that would be somewhat efficient and simple enough to make a good golfing algorithm. Not asking for proposed strategies, I want to give it some thought myself! :)

Dennis

@feersum Exactly. I'll add that to the post.

feersum

In most languages 'read a string' suggests to read a space-delimited token or maybe 1 line

Mauris

4:22 AM

I would say it's almost always a line.

feersum

C, C++, and Java read space-delimited strings.

Dennis

OK, I'll change it to read all input.

Or is there a compelling reason to restrict the input to a single line?

Mauris

Reading all input sounds fine.

Reading a single line will be more complex in, say, Brainfuck, and easier in, say, Python

orlp

@RetoKoradi enumerate diagonally over all possible 2d pizza shapes

feersum

Happy Birthday <all input> is a little lacking in verisimilitude

Dennis

4:26 AM

Yeah, I changed the HB input to line.

orlp

then enumerate over all positions that shape fits for the first piece, second piece, etc, until everything is covered or all positions exhausted

at the end if no result found print no pizza for you

feersum

@Dennis any maximum input length?

Dennis

I capped it at 255.

Reto Koradi

@orlp Yeah, would have to be something like that. I wrote a pentomino (well, polyomino) solver before. Not terribly difficult, except for some efficiency considerations. But still, it's more complicated than what I would normally want to golf. And in that case, at least the shape of the pieces is given.

Another basic approach for the given problem would be to start enumerating ways of splitting the input, and check if all the pieces are the same. Or some kind of hybrid between the two.

Optimizer

5:09 AM

Good thing you're doing the Internet a service by removing malicious tabs. ;) — Alex A. ♦ 1 hour ago

^ sums it all up

> Optimizer is the best PPCG user ever — Alex A. ♦ 1 hour ago

2

^ too

Dennis

5:32 AM

LOL. A downvote for my post and an upvote for its comment. Somebody can't take a joke.

3

A: Goodness, it's covered in tabs!

CJam, 30 24 23 bytes q{_9=NA=Seasi*' ?@?:N}/ I usually refuse to post malicious code on the internet… Try it online in the CJam interpreter.

Beta Decay

6:01 AM

> What can I say? Tabs are the way forward... — Alex A. ♦ 2 days ago

2

↑ You guys were all asleep but Alex confessed to me his darkest secret

orlp

6:34 AM

> You really think someone would do that? Go on the internet and tell lies? — Beta Decay 1 day ago

Beta Decay

> No, everyone on the internet tells the truth — orlp 1 day ago

aditsu

7:57 AM

@Dennis traitor!!!

grc

is SE down?

nvm it's working again

aditsu

@Dennis (btw, it wasn't me)

flawr

11:23 AM

@MarcDefiant Where r u from?=)

trichoplax

@flawr I don't think chat pings will notify a person unless they have been in chat recently enough for their name to show up in the ping autocomplete

(or unless a mod superpings them)

flawr

Too bad=/

trichoplax

I sometimes work around this by adding a temporary comment to someone's question or answer if I really need to get their attention

Or if you had something to discuss I think you can invite someone to chat

(I know yours was only a passing comment but I mean generally)

flawr

Hm well I didn't want to abuse comment messages for other stuff. It is just that I think I might know MarcDefiant IRL=)

SE should implement a PM feature...

Doorknob

@MarcDefiant ^

Martin Büttner

11:32 AM

@flawr status-declined

2

Doorknob

(super-duper-ping)

jrenk

@flawr SE should become Facebook Kappa

flawr

11:49 AM

Myspace?

Mauris

"Word search" more like "esolang search".

As in me hunting through esolangs.org, not the grid

Timwi

Yes, I did that too, and decided it was too boring and stopped.

Martin Büttner

@Mauris oh you did Prelude

Mauris

12:07 PM

Yeah!

Timwi

Another question I have to all of you regarding Funciton. In all of the library functions I wrote for it, I always included (in a comment) a pseudocode representation of each function. Do you think I should keep that, or does it kind of defeat the point of writing it in actual Funciton? I’m kinda tempted to remove them all.

Martin Büttner

@Mauris which reminds me once again that I keep forgetting about sandboxing/posting the two prelude metagolf challenges

@Timwi I don't see anything wrong with including documentation

github.com/mbuettner/retina/blob/master/Examples/Rule110.rgx

github.com/mbuettner/retina/blob/master/Examples/2TagSystem.rgx

Timwi

Documentation is English text. What I’m talking about is pseudocode that’s equivalent to the relevant Funciton function. The syntax I use for that pseudocode is almost consistent and unambiguous enough that it could totally be a functional programming language in its own right...

jrenk

I will make an Esolang called "Boobies" only containing following characters ( . Y . )

Martin Büttner

@Timwi I don't think it makes a difference whether the documentation is English language or pseudocode.

(or a translation of the code to a more intuitive language)

Timwi

12:17 PM

Alright then, I’ll keep it

Thanks. Gotta go now, bye

MarcDefiant

12:28 PM

@flawr According from your description in your profile I might be from the same country

Optimizer

1:19 PM

1 hour later…

jrenk

How do you a count a linebreak in a code snippet? 1 or 2 bytes?

Sp3000

One if possible

jrenk

@Sp3000 so a "\n" is always 1 byte?

Martin Büttner

depends on the encoding you're using

but generally yes

(if you were using UTF-16, \n would already be two bytes)

Optimizer

> Who needs newlines when tabs are there? — Sp3000 3 days ago

jrenk

1:23 PM

Okay thanks!

Sp3000

@Optimizer Rail please.

Geobits

> Aren't I clever ? I can make fake quotes ! — Optimizer 4 hours ago

2

Martin Büttner

nice work with the spaces there

Optimizer

I usually avoid space before !

Geobits

No need to yell ;)

Martin Büttner

1:26 PM

I somehow doubt Optimizer would ever say "Aren't I clever" though

Geobits

I somehow doubt several recent "quotes" are accurately phrased.

Optimizer

I am pretty sure I saw the "edit" marker on that fake comment @Geobits, but now its not there.

jrenk

"Don't believe everything that is written on the Internet" --- Abraham Lincoln

Geobits

@Optimizer That's weird. I see it (and it is edited for sure).

Optimizer

reload made it come again

weird.

Martin Büttner

2:15 PM

@undergroundmonorail you know what's worse than unless? postfix if (or while etc).

aditsu

like in golfscript? :p

undergroundmonorail

2:32 PM

@MartinBüttner what do you mean by postfix if? if you're complaining about a if b else c i agree, i wish they had gone with more traditional ternary operator syntax

Martin Büttner

oh that's even worse

I meant Ruby style print foo if bar

undergroundmonorail

ohh

yeah that's bad

Martin Büttner

or do_stuff() while something?()

@aditsu nah, for stack based languages it actually makes sense

undergroundmonorail

that one's especially bad because my brain tried to parse it as do{stuff()}while(something?())

Martin Büttner

the problem with postfix if is, I actually use it a lot, but not because I think it improves legibility but because I hate the end keyword for single-line ifs even more.

at least I'm never tempted to use unless...

undergroundmonorail

2:37 PM

i solve that problem by never using ruby

Martin Büttner

:D

Chris Jester-Young

@MartinBüttner I use unless frequently.

Even the suffix version.

undergroundmonorail

you're a bad person. sorry

Chris Jester-Young

@undergroundmonorail :shrug:

raise ArgumentError, "Unknown operator #{token}" unless op

@MartinBüttner ^ Special for you, using unless with suffix version. ;-)

gist: RPN calculators in various languages, 2011-03-15 19:41:55Z

undergroundmonorail

i think unless isn't as bad when used as a suffix, but using a suffix is just bad regardless imo

because when i read that line of code i see raise ArgumentError so immediately my thought is "this line raises an exception" and it's not until i've already had that thought that i find out it only happens sometimes

it doesn't flow well in my brain i guess

Martin Büttner

2:49 PM

@ChrisJester-Young yeah, I'm aware that exists. I don't know why anyone would want to use it though.

Chris Jester-Young

@MartinBüttner Well, see my gist. ;-)

The code I pasted is from that gist. It's real code I wrote years ago. And I've written production code that uses suffix unless too.

Martin Büttner

sure, but that doesn't explain why you'd do that :P

Chris Jester-Young

@MartinBüttner Well, it's a one-line assertion, effectively.

undergroundmonorail

can ruby not just do assert(op) or something?

Martin Büttner

@ChrisJester-Young if there was a prefix version like if(!op) new Exception(...); in many other languages that would be a lot clearer (imho) though

Chris Jester-Young

2:56 PM

So, the reason you can't do that in Ruby is a carryover from Perl. In Perl, if requires blocks, not just a statement.

undergroundmonorail

man, perl ruins everything

(i've never touched perl)

Chris Jester-Young

Lol.

I actually used Perl a lot, years ago. That's what made Ruby so easy for me to learn at my last job.

I think of Ruby as "Perl with eigenclasses".

:trollface:

Geobits

Wait. I thought Ruby came before Perl?

3

Chris Jester-Young

Lol.

Martin Büttner

@ChrisJester-Young that doesn't mean that postfix if/unless is actually a good thing though :P

Chris Jester-Young

3:01 PM

@MartinBüttner In Perl, that's the only way you can do something conditionally without using a block.

Martin Büttner

you're justifying why you have to do it, not that it's actually the preferable syntax ;)

undergroundmonorail

Steven Universe - New Theme

►

Chris Jester-Young

@MartinBüttner I like it, so there. ;-)

New Main Posts

0

Q: Let's implement Markdown!

An important building block for many modern websites is Markdown, a very minimal markup language which essentially provides macros for common HTML elements. It finds widespread usage in blogging, on Reddit, and (obviously) on SE sites. Markdown has been implemented and re-implemented in a number...

undergroundmonorail

that's a good joke but explaining it would include major spoilers so you'll just have to believe me

Chris Jester-Young

3:03 PM

@NewMainPosts Had to downvote this one, sorry. :-P

flawr

@MarcDefiant Yes we are, I live near basel. Where are you from?=)

Geobits

@undergroundmonorail I'll take your word for it :P

Chris Jester-Young

@NewMainPosts A question cannot be both codegolf and popcon.

Looking at the sandbox, it looks like the OP didn't even submit their problem through the sandbox first. :'(

Geobits

It doesn't look like they could have, since they don't have the 5 rep needed (and assoc bonus doesn't count).

Chris Jester-Young

There is this, though, which has a score of 18.

18

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Basic Markdown Parser Write a script or function that parses Markdown. These rules must be parsed: `foo` ⇒ <code>foo</code> *foo* ⇒ foo **foo** ⇒ foo ***foo*** ⇒ foo _foo_ ⇒ foo __foo__ ⇒ foo ___foo___ ⇒ ...

but that's clearly a very different challenge.

Martin Büttner

3:07 PM

@Geobits are you sure it doesn't? I thought that's only for protected posts

Chris Jester-Young

@Geobits Well, they're certainly not getting any closer to that 5 rep.

Geobits

@MartinBüttner Fairly sure. Looking for backup now ;)

orlp

@ChrisJester-Young if you're interested I could show you the GC code I cooked up

@ChrisJester-Young it's actually totally Lisp agnostic, and it should be possible to use it for any C++ code

Martin Büttner

huh... the hexagonal numbers contain all permutations of 127 which are odd numbers... I wonder if there's some deeper mathematical reason behind that

orlp

@MartinBüttner 'the hexagonal numbers'?

Martin Büttner

3:15 PM

oeis.org/A003215

it's the number of hexagon tiles in a regular hexagon of side length N

orlp

Centered hexagonal number

A centered hexagonal number, or hex number, is a centered figurate number that represents a hexagon with a dot in the center and all other dots surrounding the center dot in a hexagonal lattice. The nth centered hexagonal number is given by the formula Expressing the formula as shows that the centered hexagonal number for n is 1 more than 6 times the (n − 1)th triangular number. The first few centered hexagonal numbers are (sequence A003215 in OEIS): 1, 7, 19, 37, 61, 91, 127, 169, 217, 271, 331, 397, 469, 547, 631, 721, 817, 919. In base 10 one can notice that the hexagonal numbers' rightmost...

as opposed to Hexagonal numbers

Martin Büttner

oh, I didn't know those

so yes, centred hexagonal numbers

Geobits

It also contains all odd permutations of 7 and 19. Spooky ;)

orlp

@MartinBüttner the reason for the pattern you're seeing is because of the last digit

Martin Büttner

:/

orlp

3:18 PM

wikipedia explains it pretty well

" the centered hexagonal number for n is 1 more than 6 times the (n − 1)th"

so if the last digit is 1, it becomes 7, then 9, then 7, then 1 again

Martin Büttner

right, doesn't explain why it picks up all permutations with of 127, it just makes it more likely. might still be coincidence.

@orlp you're also misquoting that

orlp

@MartinBüttner hrm?

Geobits

I think it's coincidence. There are only 6 permutations anyway, and you're discarding 2 because they're even.

Martin Büttner

@orlp "... (n-1)th triangular number"

orlp

oopsies

ignore that

Sp3000

3:25 PM

There are also 18 permutations of 12345679 gasp

Martin Büttner

...

Sp3000

Having said that, I do wonder. I mean, at least for square numbers it makes a bit more sense (e.g. 144 vs 441)

Alex A.

3:46 PM

@BetaDecay It appears I've been sleep lying.

Geobits

Not a surprise. Your true self comes out while you sleep :P

Alex A.

@Dennis Sorry to hear that. :/ (but also a little lol.) It's funny, John made a similar joke and he has no downvotes.

@Geobits ಠ_ಠ

If my true self comes out when I sleep and my true self loves tabs... he must be eliminated.

I will never sleep again.

Geobits

Well, you can take that as "your true self loves tabs" or "your true self is a liar". Take your pick :D

Alex A.

I'd take lying over tab loving.

Geobits

How can I believe that?

Alex A.

3:51 PM

You can believe me because we're graduating soon.

Geobits

Oh cool, how soon?

Alex A.

November 1st, obviously.

Geobits

aditsu

I wouldn't trust a guy who hates tabs

4

Geobits

...and admits to being a liar.

I think he secretly likes tabs, and it's all just one of his many lies.

aditsu

3:54 PM

@Geobits that's not as egregious :)

Geobits

It is if the tab-hating is a lie. Then he's preaching heresy on purpose, while adhering to the faith himself.

Alex A.

That or I'm just trolling.

Geobits

What is this "trolling" you speak of?

aditsu

I wouldn't really call it "faith", it's just the simple truth

Alex A.

flawr

3:56 PM

We do not want to see your selfies.

Geobits

That... doesn't look like a verb.

Alex A.

He's the Unicorn Wizard.

flawr

Do we have any conventions on how to count the characters (in codegolf) of code that has to be in multiple different files?

Alex A.

Depends

Geobits

I assumed it would just be the sum of each file.

Alex A.

3:58 PM

^

Sp3000

I think it should be the sum of files + 1 for each additional file, treating a new file like a newline character

Alex A.

If it requires a command line switch to use them all then you have to count that

flawr

Because I had the idea of a new golfing language that just consists of empty files=)

Sp3000

^^ exactly why we need the +1

Only Retina answers have really counted that so far though

(as far as I can tell)

Geobits

Is it anything like Folders?

If the file names matter, those normally have to be counted, too AFAIK.

Alex A.

4:00 PM

IIRC scoring folders is a nightmare

@Geobits Yes

flawr

@Geobits Yes about like that but without the file/folder names playing a role=)

Alex A.

Sounds sketchy

Sp3000

@MartinBüttner

Geobits

7

Q: Counting bytes for multi-file programs

So far, submissions consisting of multiple files have simply been counted by summing up the scores of the individual files. Also file names aren't counted as long as they are arbitrary. (We do count file names if the code depends on them to work correctly, i.e. if actual code is outsourced to the...

discussion code-golf policy

Found it :)

Sp3000

Ah, there it was, I thought there was something like that

(sorry Martin, the ping was because I remembered discussing this before)

Alex A.

4:04 PM

@MartinBüttner

Sorry, the ping was because I felt like pinging you without reason

flawr

Well one could make it way simpler: Write a program in [a specified language]. Interpret the bytes that make up the file as unary and place that many empty files in one folder. Voila^^

Geobits

From that post:

> One could write a Unary derivative that doesn't take a string of 0s, but instead whose program consists of N empty files, where the number of files is interpreted as the unary code. This would essentially give you score 0 for arbitrary programs.

flawr

I havent even had time to read this!!!

Sp3000

... and a natural extension is that the same applies to, say, multiple textboxes in an online interpreter (just before anybody here gets any bright ideas :P)

Geobits

I can only imagine trying to run an interpreter that consists of 10^349273773 text boxes.

Alex A.

4:09 PM

@Sp3000 I only have dim ideas.

feersum

For any answer in a language capable of multiple files, all byte counts should be multiplied by 1.000703 since they have 257 bytes at their disposal instead of 256.

Martin Büttner

@feersum I think we can discuss that if we have a language that makes use of all 256 byte values and "file breaks"

Geobits

4:36 PM

Plus another for whether that file is in a subfolder, etc ;)

undergroundmonorail

5:11 PM

reddit.com/r/javascript/comments/3ahohw/…

Geobits

^ -1: That parentheses font is terrible. I feel he could have made it look a lot better (either fixed width or a sane proportional) without changing functionality (esp since he's got a buffer line on the bottom to work with).

undergroundmonorail

if it was me i'd probably have tried to make a pair of parenthesis at the end so it just looked like a big function call

New Sandboxed Posts

5:30 PM

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Big big numbers... code-challenge number Whilst trying to golf several of my answers, I've needed to write large integers in as few characters as possible. Now I know the best way to do that: I'll be getting you to be writing this program. The challenge Write a program that when given a pos...

Chris Jester-Young

@AlexA. Take it to the mod-only room. :-P

Geobits

T-mobile's account summary page makes me (somewhat) nervous about their code:

> Amount: $ 67.5

2

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