The Nineteenth Byte - 2015-06-25 (page 2 of 2)

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5:00 PM

@Sparr I think ruling out holes automatically also rules out self intersection, but I'm going to leave them both in for clarity. Hopefully that doesn't add confusion

5:39 PM

1

Q: Highest perimeter connected polygon

This is code golf. The winner is the valid code with the smallest number of bytes. Challenge Given inputs M and N, the width and height of a rectangular grid of squares, output a polygon that satisfies the following: The polygon has no holes: every square outside the polygon may be reached ...

This guy just won't give up.

github.com/NitronTech/AlphaPlus

*This repository is only updated for codegolf\code testing.*
*All files have been under development for weeks and are only released when used in an online code, so people can test.*
*Do not base cheating on the repo dates.*

What did he do? I think I missed this discussion

He created a "golfing language" that just happens to have new builtins commited to it after a challenge has been posted using those builtins.

but now he added a repo readme comment saying that he's developed all the builtins already, so when he commits them to the repo shouldn't be used to judge when he wrote them

I see. So the changes were released before they were written and added to the repository, and therefore are not cheating?

5:46 PM

"I'm not cheating guys, you can't use timestamps as evidence of anything."

Well then

I didn't realize some people took winning so seriously..

wow, that's so impressive that he guesses perfectly what exact built in to create

@trichoplax About the perimeter challenge: I just realized that technically you have a polyomino, not a polygon.

We need to add a time travel loophole to meta

5

@Zgarb yes Sparr linked to the wikipedia page on polyominos earlier, for help with the terminology. I considered changing the name of the question but polyominos are also polygons so I left it as is. I may still change it though...

Oh, I didn't notice. Well, it's anyway clear what you mean.

5:49 PM

I'm torn between the two - I may add voting comments to the question...

Added

@Geobits He could so easily get around the loophole by only using his new language on his own questions.

Polygons are rarely allowed to intersect themselves, but you rarely hear someone complaining when two parts of a polyomino share a corner

@trichoplax True. If he's willing to endure the barrage of downvotes it'll likely attract, it's technically not a violation.

Can you accept your own answer, and if so, do you get the reputation bonus?

@Zgarb You can, but with no rep

(neither the accepted answer bonus, nor the bonus for accepting an answer)

I tested this out of interest last week

When I say "out of interest", I mean out of curiosity, not out of an interest in manipulating the rep system...

@feersum The corner sharing is a good point, and the comment voting supports that so far

6:06 PM

@trichoplax I'm suuure ;)

;)

@Vioz- lies all lies

Its Thursday

It's no-manipulating-the-system Thursday?

Its Chicken Nuggets Thursday and I am left hungry

Not much of a Chicken Nugget Thursday then...

6:13 PM

Is it still in the sandbox?

Hopefully not. Chicken + sand = nope

The bot seems to not have picked up the post yet

cron

3

Q: Nuggets of Code

Nuggets of Code It's Friday evening, and you've invited over the usual golfing buddies to participate in your favourite hobby: code golfing. However, as this is such a brain-draining task, you need to pick up some brain food for the group so you can golf as much as possible off your code. Now, ...

Got my name on another OEIS page ;) oeis.org/A001110

6:25 PM

Congratulations! (I don't know your name so I don't know the specifics, but good work)

How do people feel about allowing switching input orders in a golf?

Summed up nicely in this comment

For this particular golf I don't see much of an issue. It might be different depending on the task.

Note this is not just deciding to take the inputs in the opposite order in general, but switching the inputs for different values

@Geobits I guess they still have to deal with both inputs even and both inputs odd, so it won't be a huge decrease in difficulty

The only difference I see is that the output will be rotated 90 (correct me if I'm wrong). So up to you whether you want to deal with that I guess.

Yeah either rotated or transposed, and I don't see a problem either way. Deciding when to switch and still getting the benefit from it will be a challenge in itself...

I think I'll allow it

6:41 PM

@Vioz- meta.codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/5318/…

@Vioz- Arkadiusz Wesolowski ?

mentioning typos .. not sure how i feel about it.

@Sparr oeis.org/wiki/User:Kade_Robertson

Done. Thanks @Geobits

I don't need to be added to that page :) I haven't done anything that crazy, just extending existing or adding non-existing b-files

@Optimizer You need three dots for an ellipsis

:P

6:44 PM

or 1 unicode character. Everyone loves Unicode!

@Optimizer Personally, I always want to have my typos pointed out. I know not everyone does. Sometimes I just ask "Do you want to know about typos?"

So I finally wrote a generator/validator/naivebot for my vertex covering challenge. Any feedback for those that missed it the first time around?

Personally, I think typos should be edited, not pointed out.

@Vioz- ahh, I thought you were the guy who added a new formula recently

Some people may work from a text file, not the post

6:59 PM

Nope :P

Although I do have a sequence I will be submitting once I have time

17

Q: Draw Growing Stacks of Boxes

The Task In this challenge, your task is to draw an ASCII art representation of several stacks of boxes of increasing height. You are given as input the number of stacks, which is a positive integer. The first stack contains one box of size 2x2. The second stack contains 2 boxes of size 3x3. In ...

code-golf ascii-art

^^ challenges like this seem to seriously favor languages with array transposition operators

7:24 PM

Looks like I should keep my mouth shut when I cast downvotes...

Have you had revenge downvotes?

I decided on that looooong ago. I'm much pickier about choosing when to explain downvotes now.

I've been sucked into too many "debates" about my reasoning, or revenge votes (normally cleared by the script, but still), etc.

And people wonder why things get downvoted without comment ;)

0

Q: Is an answer allowed to use undefined, but consistent behaviour?

A lot of languages have behaviour that is not defined in the official spec, or might lack a spec in the first place. If the behaviour is consistent and even well known, can such bahaviour be used despite being stated in the spec? E.g. in JavaScript the order of keys in an object is officially und...

discussion policy

MegosAlpha
I'm a Computer Programmer. I try to do a bit of everything. I use Stack Overflow constantly. I've programmed for 4 years and I know 42 programming languages, mostly C++ and C#.

the guy has one rep on SO

his 42 programming languages consist mostly of C++ and C#

7:33 PM

Many coders use SO constantly and don't even have an account

@Sparr That's only because you can't go negative.

@feersum that's more becuase they re so bad, they have to search every single thing on SO

@Geobits I don't have any knowledge so I don't know how much of a limit this is but it roughly suggests that improvements in speed will mainly be optimisations rather than algorithm changes. Unless someone finds something groundbreaking, which is not unprecedented...

Meh. Using it as a resource but not answering questions doesn't necessarily make you a bad programmer. Just not a very charitable one.

Maybe they cast huge numbers of up and downvotes and help shape the site

Maybe they're highly active on meta...

7:36 PM

@trichoplax I have something like that as my naive example, it takes ~3 minutes for the 100k test case

You can't vote with 1 rep though, can you? Or answer on meta.

Really?

Oh yeah - meta I should know

I didn't know about not being able to upvote, but yes I remember not being able to downvote

So ignore both my points :)

@Geobits Do you want people to use that standard algorithm, and then stochastically improve the result, or do you want people to be unable to use that algorithm, so they have to come up with something faster that gives poorer results?

If the former, then it sounds like you have the numbers about right

They can do either, I wouldn't ban that algorithm. However, even with that algorithm, the order you choose edges can make a large-ish difference in result.

@Geobits I didn't mean banning it, rather timing it out

Ah, right.

You could set the time limit / test case sizes to specifically include or exclude it

7:42 PM

Hmm. I'll wait to test this at home, though. The official timing computer is quite a bit faster than this one, so I may need to adjust it some. I think a target of ~3 minutes for the largest test case sounds good, though (for my naively written method).

If there's enough time to apply that algorithm, then I guess it's two competitions in one - optimise the algorithm as much as possible to give as much time as you can for your secondary heuristic

Although I've learnt to expect the unexpected...

Well if someone comes up with something ridiculously good using another algorithm, they deserve to win :)

Indeed

And you can't design test cases around the unknown

Even if someone optimises the standard algorithm down to 1 second, they still aren't likely to get from that result to an optimal solution in 5 minutes for 100,000 vertices, right?

I'd be impressed if they could, to say the least.

It turns out Nuggets of Code has become quite the computation-hog

7:46 PM

Mm. Now I need to go and eat...

Unfortunately(?), I can't come up with good fluff/bait for it. It'll just have to appeal on its own to the code tweakers out there :)

I recently interviewed the top contributor to serverfault.com for a job where I work.

(speaking of people with low or high rep on SO)

The people who will give you the interesting answers will likely be hooked in by "Vertex Cover"

@Geobits I think Java could be a good contender for Nuggets of Code in the "fast" category

I'll actually be able to test your solution in a reasonable amount of time :P

I thought about a couple different ways to do it, but since "fast" isn't the objective, I skipped out :P

7:48 PM

Fair enough :P

There's a genius way of doing this I don't think people have picked up on yet..

@Geobits You might be able to come up with some awful pun by replacing "minimum" with "under"

Oh god... "Under the Vertex Covers?"

lol

Or "Vertices under cover"

But yes, yours is the one I thought of first and didn't want to be the one to write :P

My comment history contains much worse I'm sure ;)

I'm sure you can find worse given time

Is it HNQ safe?

7:53 PM

I should make sure it is. Ideally I could get some people from other stacks to try it out.

You could probably use it on Math.SE

Although it might not make HNQ from there

arqade should do it

8:06 PM

Someone posted the answer I was looking for :D

Now you can order your dinner?

Yes!

I can finally figure out how to order 199 chicken nuggets in a fast time!

lol

If the 40-packs are cheaper, you'd probably be better off ordering 200 and throwing one away.

In this hypothetical world where it Friday, there are also no garbage cans and littering results in execution by firing squad.

8:11 PM

Well, you could do anything else you wanted with it. If the idea is to save money (or why bother), I'd rather feed one to my dog or something.

It would be weird to see a 40 pack cost more than the sum of 20, 10, and 9.

why would that be weird?

that's how bulk pricing works

Because typo

Or braino, or whatever you call it when you type the entirely opposite word.

I think the steepest price break I ever saw on aliexpress was 100 units costing less than 60 units.

I've never seen anything that drastic

Must be one of those "shutting down the factory" sales

But on the topic of AliExpress, I've always wanted to order stuff in bulk from there, but I can't justify it

Like if I find a pen I like, and I buy a pack of 100, that sounds like a great plan

But what are you then doing with the 99 other pens you don't need?

8:17 PM

Up until the point where I get bored of that pen, or like another one more, then I buy 100 of the new one without finishing off the last 100

I change music streaming services every few months, how am I supposed to commit to a type of pen?!

glue it in your hand ^^

I once bought a logitech mouse

I said "this mouse is awesome. I'm going to use it for 10 years. but it might not last"

so I bought two more

they lasted about ten years between the three of them, and that model went out of production shortly after I bought them

Well, fair point. But I don't think chicken nuggets last that long :p

@Sparr so you wish you ordered more?

nah, by then the novelty of having a haptic feedback mouse was outweighed by newer mice being better in many other ways.

8:24 PM

I've seen special offers where it is in your interest to buy the entire stock of a given product and throw them all away

(obviously it's even better to not throw them away)

@trichoplax Only one. I guess I have to thank @Optimizer for that, who just had to talk about one of my challenges after I left my -1 comment...

You should go a revenge spree against Optimizer then. It's the only possible course of action.

6

8:54 PM

@MartinBüttner, wow. Thank you.

Martin Büttner

@PeterTaylor Did you think I was gonna award it to Steve's answer? ;)

You put a lot of effort and perseverance into that answer... you definitely deserved the rep for it.

4

Seconded :)

Thirded :)

9:12 PM

I didn't even notice that you'd put a bounty on the question.

9:46 PM

0

Q: Write "Code Golf" without using any letters

Goal Your goal is to write "Code Golf" without using any letters [A-Z, a-z], even in your source code. Bonus / Scoring You get a bonus if you use a programming language created after 2010 (-10 bytes). If you can write "Code Golf by" + (username), you get a -12 bonus. Good luck! Standard ...

10:18 PM

0

Q: how the factorial of 16 (16!) can be accomplished by using multithreading?

how the factorial of 16 (16!) can be accomplished by using multithreading? Guys I got this question to solve, I'm not able to find out the approach. Can anyone help?

nice, 4 close votes in 3 minutes

:)

This user already knows about SO - they have a closed question there too...

Probably qbanned.

Wouldn't be surprised if he's question-banned there.

There should be a statistic somewhere that tells how quickly we closed that question.

Martin Büttner

10:26 PM

@Sp3000 switched task 9 to J. feel free to include 1##& in your own answer

@aditsu Is it possible to get un-uglified version of CJam JS code on cjam.aditsu.com?

Martin Büttner

@usandfriends do you mean CJam translated to JS?

@MartinBüttner J was still missing. I knew there were already operators for this in the APL family, but I forgot they counted as anonymous functions...

Martin Büttner

or the generated code of the interpreter?

@Dennis I'm not sure I'll do all 10 tasks, but I want to get Prelude and Fission, and probably Mathematica again

a shame I can't use Median in Mathematica :/

That was intentional. Sorry.

Martin Büttner

10:30 PM

heh

Generated code of the interpreter @MartinBüttner

Is aditsu's generated JS golfed?

0

A: Play a Perfect Game of 4x4 Hex

Marbelous, 973b This is a naive implementation of the hinted strategy in the question. It expects the board to be provided as 16 commandline/mainboard parameters like hex.mbl B W E E E W E E E B E E E E E E and it will output the zero-indexed position of white's next move. 00 }1 }0 &G B? W! &0 &G

Nice

@trichoplax In a sense :)

10:38 PM

Delicious irony

Martin Büttner

@Sparr what the heck :D

:)

@Sparr How long did that take you???

10:53 PM

Looks like @aditsu's using gwtproject.org

Martin Büttner

@Doorknob you can save two bytes in Ruby by omitting f=. also [0..-2] --> .chop

Ah, nice, I completely forgot chop was a thing

Martin Büttner

saves a few more bytes:

->n{([' ______  '*n,'|      | '*n,' ()--() ~'*n]*"
").chop}

okay, in what universe is that starworthy O_o

Martin Büttner

and isn't there $/ for "\n"?

11:00 PM

@MartinBüttner Oh, right, that'll save another byte

@trichoplax half hour maybe?

Odd out of context = starworthy

@Sparr Wow. I had in my head that marbelous would be a slow language to write in

0

Q: Display a MIDI Track

Background MIDI files are quite different from WAV or MP3 audio files. MP3 and WAV files contain bytes representing a "recording" of the audio, while MIDI files have a series of MIDI messages stored in MIDI events informing a MIDI synthesizer which virtual instrument to play or a MIDI sequencer ...

code-golf ascii-art

@trichoplax oh, it is. this particular problem just happened to be very amenable to marbelous solution.

now, golfing it will take significantly longer

I need a text editor that makes 2d text block manipulation easier

@Sparr something to add to the marbelous repository?

The nice thing is even before you golf it it looks golfed...

Martin Büttner

11:11 PM

@Sparr sublime?

@Sparr vim?

@MartinBüttner I'm using ST3 now, it's not great for this. notably, it can't paste things outside the current file bounds

Visual block mode in Vim is great

Martin Büttner

@Sparr yeah, if I do 2D editing, I tend to pad everything with spaces first

say I have this file:
abcd
.
.
wxyz

if I want to paste something to the right of that, I have to pad the . lines with spaces first

Martin Büttner

11:12 PM

but if you've got editing in place, then multiple cursors are great for moving blocks around

also, ST's controls for selecting and placing blocks of text are shit, in my experience :(

Martin Büttner

huh?

@Sparr Vim: $<C-v>3jAfoo<esc>

Martin Büttner

alt+shift+down

where foo is the thing you want to put there

11:13 PM

so, say I alt+shift+down a few times, then shift+right a few times to select a block, then I cut or copy

Martin Büttner

yeah exactly

now, I want to go paste that somewhere, but I need to do some padding first so the destination is all reachable characters

Martin Büttner

how is that shit?

so I go somewhere else, insert the necessary padding, then...

Martin Büttner

well yes, all assuming you've padded the file first

you can make a simple regex replace macro to do the padding

11:13 PM

I can't just paste. I have to remember how many lines tall my selection was, then re-expand my cursor to that height first

Martin Büttner

@Sparr you don't need to lose the cursors in the first place

Use paint and convert pixel colours to ASCII afterwards

2

I lose the cursors if I want to do anything else in between the copy/cut and the paste

Glad someone found that useful :)

it's actually possible to fully encode marbelous in an 8-bit RGB bitmap :)

Martin Büttner

11:15 PM

@Sparr hm yeah I'll give you that

just 16 bits total, actually, don't even need the last 8

@MartinBüttner part of my annoyance is also mac-specific. different programs all having different shortcuts for cursor movement makes it hard to remember how to do it in ST

Martin Büttner

@Sparr you can use those to encode the current state

anyway, mbl will never be competitive for that question

so I'm not gonna spend much more time golfing it

I just wanted to show it could be done :)

@trichoplax the logic for the strategy in the question is just a whole bunch of sequencial conditions and boolean operations.

the way I did it in marbelous was just start with each "rule" in order. first I made a tiny block of devices that checks if the 5th space is empty, and if so plays there.

then another block that did the next thing (the play in 0 or 1 if black plays 1 or 0), and I ensured that that play would take longer than the first one, and the first one would end the program if it worked

and so on down the list, each one being forced to take longer to execute than the previous

which involved inserting a lot of blank rows for some of them

then I just stacked up similar-sized blocks side by side

I realized later that I'd actually used far too many syncs and duplicators, I could cut a lot of that out by syncing sooner

Martin Büttner

@Sp3000 isn't your mersenne submission missing the prime check? I'm also not exactly sure how it tests for powers of two without +` or something like that.

@Sparr I remain impressed

11:50 PM

Whooh I got it to work.

0

Q: The Ultimate Samurai Showdown

Introduction In this challenge, you are playing an arcade game titled The Ultimate Samurai Showdown Ultimate Edition Special Version 2.0 X Alpha Omega Turbo (or just Ultimate Samurai Showdown for short). Your opponents? None other than the other members of Programming Puzzles & Code Golf! As yo...

king-of-the-hill

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Jun '1525

The Nineteenth Byte

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