The Nineteenth Byte

Lojban's goal is to be syntactically unambiguous, no irregular forms, completely logical, etc. Esperanto, AFAIK, isn't; its goal is just to be a "universal language" that everyone would hypothetically learn.

Alex A.

Syntactically ambiguous? :/

Doorknob 冰

what you didn't see anything

El'endia Starman

3:07 AM

s/ambiguous- ninja'd.

Alex A.

hah

Doorknob 冰

.o'anairo'e

El'endia Starman

Expressive words are useless when no one else knows them.

Doorknob 冰

This is true :P

El'endia Starman

Okay, I tried moving all the bots' JS files into its own folder. Now the page takes a second longer to load.

Doorknob 冰

3:09 AM

... wait, what? Why would that happen?

El'endia Starman

I don't know.

Maybe it's something like confirmation bias going on.

Doorknob 冰

You could time it with Chrom{e,ium}'s devtools

El'endia Starman

How does one "rollback" to a prior commit without reverting it?

Doorknob 冰

With git?

El'endia Starman

Timing is a great idea, except that I didn't do it for before the change, so I don't have a baseline.

Yes, git.

Doorknob 冰

3:13 AM

Oh, maybe git bisect would help

(Disclaimer: I know very little about git)

You maybe also could just checkout to the commit directly, although I'm not sure if that will break things

El'endia Starman

Googled and it looks like that's more for finding bugs.

Doorknob 冰

Slowness is a bug.

El'endia Starman

If so, then I know what caused it.

Alex A.

Molasses?

El'endia Starman

That's not the problem. The problem is that I don't know if it's actually slower.

Doorknob 冰

3:14 AM

Google has failed me, but you might have better luck figuring out whether checkout'ing to a specific commit will actually revert anything.

trichoplax

I (and any upvoters of this comment) would like to see your potential meta.SE answer that you mention in your last paragraph. — trichoplax 4 mins ago

Anyone else?

Alex A.

I don't think I follow Peter's argument there

If I understand, he just wants attribution

But both CC-BY-SA (current SE content license) and MIT both require attribution

undergroundmonorail

strawpoll.me/6371888

trichoplax

@AlexA. My understanding is that the new SE licence rules will waive the attribution requirement of the MIT licence

El'endia Starman

@Doorknob冰: Nope, my perception was wrong. It takes the same amount of time to load in either case.

Alex A.

3:24 AM

@trichoplax Wait, seriously? I didn't get that impression but that's not to say it's not the case.

That sucks

trichoplax

@AlexA. It's with a hard-to-understand exception that I still don't follow, but it sounds like for most practical cases no one will have to attribute any code they copy from SE, so attribution is only required for non-code prose

Doorknob 冰

@El'endiaStarman Oh, huh. Okay then.

Alex A.

ಠ_ಠ

El'endia Starman

> You don’t have to include the full MIT License in your code base. Contributors agree to give code users permission to ignore the MIT License’s notice preservation requirement, as long as users give reasonable attribution upon request of the copyright holder (or Stack Exchange on behalf of the contributor). This optional exception to the MIT License will live in our terms of service.

Bold emphasis mine.

trichoplax

> You don’t have to include the full MIT License in your code base. Contributors agree to give code users permission to ignore the MIT License’s notice preservation requirement, as long as users give reasonable attribution upon request of the copyright holder (or Stack Exchange on behalf of the contributor). This optional exception to the MIT License will live in our terms of service.

Alex A.

3:27 AM

You done got ninja'd, broseph

trichoplax

@AlexA. Yeah, badly lol

The "upon request" part seems to be what is causing most of the confusion. SE have promised a follow up post with less ambiguity soon though

Alex A.

The answer I agree with the most is the one that said "pls don't do dis 2 us"

In more elegant terms, of course

Doorknob 冰

I haven't been staying up to speed—did they drop the "January 1" target date yet?

trichoplax

I've also voted mostly for answers that say this is an awful idea

@Doorknob冰 Feb 1 now

undergroundmonorail

@undergroundmonorail i like that someone saw this and decided "yeah, you should correct your taco bell mistake" despite the fact that no one but me knows what my taco bell mistake is

Doorknob 冰

3:30 AM

@trichoplax oh, ok

quintopia

so who is working on a golfing language, improves it every day, and is very open to suggestions?

trichoplax

@Doorknob冰 Still seems very soon to me - especially since it isn't even clear what it means yet...

Alex A.

403

A: The MIT License – Clarity on Using Code on Stack Overflow and Stack Exchange

In essence, this proposal is to move from a copyleft license (CC-BY-SA 3.0) to a permissive license for code. (By default, it's basically the most permissive license possible, nearly equivalent to public domain with a liability disclaimer.) Having thought about it for a couple of hours, I've sh...

I can't see vote breakdowns, but 403 is a whole lot of people

RikerW

@quintopia Me, but it is half esolang half golfing lang.

Doorknob 冰

@AlexA. +423/-20

El'endia Starman

3:31 AM

@AlexA. +423- ninja'd.

quintopia

@RikerW sho me plox

RikerW

@quintopia Can't diff computer than the code. Sorry. :⊂

trichoplax

@AlexA. Especially on meta :)

Alex A.

Seriously

Doorknob 冰

@El'endiaStarman heeeey, you don't have that privilege! Userscript, then? :P

El'endia Starman

3:32 AM

@AlexA. I was just about to suggest a Chrome extension to you but then I remembered that you use Safari.

undergroundmonorail

@RikerW what a creative emoticon

El'endia Starman

@Doorknob冰 Eeeyup!

RikerW

@undergroundmonorail It means is a subset of.

quintopia

@RikerW I can't take your lang seriously without a github repo!

Alex A.

@El'endiaStarman Lel. I tried installing a userscript manager for Safari but it was such a huge turd that I uninstalled it.

undergroundmonorail

3:33 AM

@El'endiaStarman you could always suggest that he makes the http request manually

RikerW

@quintopia Sorry, meant to but forgot today.

undergroundmonorail

@RikerW ik but it is a creative use of it

Doorknob 冰

@AlexA. Maybe Safari is the turd and not the userscript manager

2

just a thought

;)

trichoplax

@quintopia Was that meant for someone else?

El'endia Starman

@undergroundmonorail If I recall correctly, you actually do get the vote breakdowns, but something keeps you from seeing it (like the JS isn't given to you or something).

RikerW

3:34 AM

@quintopia Remember my rolling the dice challenge? Imagine a dice rolling around on a grid. Commands are stickers on the plane.

Sherlock9

@AlexA. Thanks for adding a bounty to my quipu question

undergroundmonorail

@El'endiaStarman i read today that you have to specifically request them but the backend doesn't make sue that you actually have the privilege. getting the privilege only makes it easy to make the request

quintopia

@trichoplax someone wrote something just as I was clicking the reply arrow

El'endia Starman

@undergroundmonorail AH, okay, that makes sense.

Doorknob 冰

pokes @quintopia with github.com/KeyboardFire/sevichat

Alex A.

3:35 AM

@Sherlock9 :)

@Doorknob冰 ಠ_ಠ

trichoplax

@quintopia :) did you know you can edit and click the message you intended to reply to, and it keeps your original text so you don't have to retype?

Dennis

Dec 21 at 20:57, by Dennis

I need a feature that automatically freezes chat when I start typing.

Doorknob 冰

@AlexA. Yes, I know, shameless self-promotion is shameless

pokes @Dennis with github.com/KeyboardFire/sevichat as well

Alex A.

@Doorknob冰 I was not ಠ_ಠing at that

trichoplax

@Dennis Yes chat would be much easier if it was turn based

Doorknob 冰

3:36 AM

@AlexA. Oh I didn't hover the hover kajigger

Dennis

@Doorknobಠ 冰_冰

Alex A.

@trichoplax Everything would take so long D:

の_の

trichoplax

:)

Doorknob 冰

@trichoplax Roll a d20 for initiative to determine who gets to talk first? :P

trichoplax

lol

A d18 would do at the moment...

Dennis

3:38 AM

@Doorknob冰 j/k for up/down? That makes no sense at all.

hides

undergroundmonorail

i don't remember how dnd resolves ties in initiative

oops

Doorknob 冰

@Dennis I almost didn't catch the sarcasm >:O

RikerW

Is @Doorknob冰 KeyboardFire on github?

Doorknob 冰

("what sarcasm?")

@RikerW yes

trichoplax

Since it arguably affects our site very differently to SO, and we only have a month to get our site consensus sorted, would it help to feature this meta discussion?

11

Q: Effect of the MIT license change on PPCG

This is (probably) happening, and it's annoying me, and there's quite a lot of backlash from the community. If you read all of that post and the comments and the answers and the answers' comments (or, indeed, CTRL-F + code golf1), you will see niche sites like Code Golf and Code Review mentioned...

discussion

Doorknob 冰

3:40 AM

And basically everywhere else except SE

RikerW

@Doorknob冰 So your real name is Andy?

Doorknob 冰

yup

quintopia

@Doorknob冰 do i need to reboot browser to make it work? it's enabled by ctrl+0 does nothing?

Alex A.

Yes

Dennis

KeyboardFire冰

Doorknob 冰

3:40 AM

@quintopia It's a capital o

not a zero

RikerW

@Doorknob冰 Fourth middle name is andy. :P

Alex A.

Fourth middle name?

quintopia

ctrl+O opens bookmark manager

Alex A.

o__o

Doorknob 冰

@quintopia ^O from within the chat textbox?

undergroundmonorail

3:41 AM

my best friend has 2 middle names

quintopia

yes

Doorknob 冰

It shouldn't require a restart. Maybe just refresh the page?

undergroundmonorail

i don't know what she enters in pinball

Dennis

@Doorknob冰 ^O launches the "open file" dialog for me.

quintopia

@Doorknob冰 that did it

Doorknob 冰

3:41 AM

@Dennis er, did you install the userscript (and refresh the page)?

RikerW

How do you run it? the sevichat.

Alex A.

Run with legs

Doorknob 冰

greasyfork.org/en/help/installing-user-scripts

quintopia

wine has legs

undergroundmonorail

> * p: pin

i can pin messages now? neat

Doorknob 冰

3:42 AM

If you're a room owner, sure

If you're not a room owner that will probably do nothing

undergroundmonorail

you're right it does nothing

but can you imagine how sick it would have been if that worked

it would have been anarchy in here

Doorknob 冰

hahaha

undergroundmonorail

i can confirm that i can't pin my own message either

er

star

Dennis

@Doorknob冰 I didn't think it would be able to override the shortcut, but it did.

Doorknob 冰

Yeah, it works in both Chromium and Firefox a-little-bit-surprisingly

undergroundmonorail

3:44 AM

aww, you can't reply to yourself. that was like 90% of the reason i installed this

Doorknob 冰

@undergroundmonorail wait, really? This shall be remedied shortly

I thought you could

... I guess I never really tried it

undergroundmonorail

not working for me, tampermonkey in chromium

Version 45.0.2454.101 (64-bit)

RikerW

@undergroundmonorail I got it in v47.

Doorknob 冰

Oh, duh. Of course it doesn't because it does find('.newreply').click(), and .newreply doesn't appear on your own messages

I'll just implement reply "manually"

RikerW

If any mac users are here, pls note it is really ctrl, not command.

undergroundmonorail

3:46 AM

@Doorknob冰 that makes sense

Alex A.

@RikerW Ma-ma-ma-maaaaaaaaaaac

RikerW

@Doorknob冰 maybe make it give a notice if you can't do something? For me if I try to pin something, it types instead and I have to click out and hit ctrl-O again.

undergroundmonorail

nice, i was able to navigate to my message, edit it and add a reply to another message without touching the mouse

RikerW

@AlexA. I though you run Safari on Windows?

Doorknob 冰

@RikerW [status-declined] too lazy :P

Alex A.

3:48 AM

@RikerW Seriously?

RikerW

@AlexA. Yes, I don't know why. :P

Alex A.

You and I have talked before about how we both use Macs

undergroundmonorail

@Doorknob冰 if it was me i'd only do it manually for self-replies because of all the subtle magic that goes on with the reply button like auto-replacing a reply if you did the wrong one etc

trichoplax

@trichoplax @Doorknob冰 @AlexA. what do you think about featuring this meta post?

Alex A.

@trichoplax We'll discuss it and get back to you

trichoplax

3:50 AM

@AlexA. Yay! Thanks

RikerW

@AlexA. Oh yeah... (Inset confused face here)

Doorknob 冰

@undergroundmonorail oh, good idea

RikerW

@Doorknob冰 what korean char is that in your name?

Doorknob 冰

None of them

Alex A.

lal

translate: 冰

(from zh-CHS) Ice

undergroundmonorail

3:51 AM

RikerW

@Doorknob冰 Okay, is it just a snowflake or a chinese/japanese char?

undergroundmonorail

ice

RikerW

ninjaed.

:P

Doorknob 冰

@RikerW for my purposes, it's a snowflake looking thingy :P

Thank you Doorknob Snowflake thingy — Non-Master Race Dec 3 '14 at 1:11

RikerW

@Doorknob冰 lol that user calls you Dooorn00b.

Can I call you that?

undergroundmonorail

3:53 AM

look at this picture i took of my glaceon 41.media.tumblr.com/d8012c50cb67c3721461bfbc05a312db/…

Sherlock9

> I've sold my soul to PPCG.

You write 16 bytes and what do you get?
Another challenge over and deeper in rep
Saint Peter don't you call me 'cause I can't go
I owe my soul to the PPCG

With apologies to Tennessee Ford

Doorknob 冰

@RikerW ಠ_ಠ

RikerW

@undergroundmonorail lol I was thinking screenshot of the game. :P

Doorknob 冰

@Doorknob冰 test

@undergroundmonorail replying to your own messages works now

undergroundmonorail

yaay :D

RikerW

3:53 AM

@Doorknob冰 I am planning to call @AlexA. @Wrong.

:P

Alex A.

@RikerW ಠ_ಠ

undergroundmonorail

on my machine @doorknob is doorknob[]

RikerW

It is true. :DDDDDDDDDDD

undergroundmonorail

@AlexA. []_[]

i have very little unicode

RikerW

@undergroundmonorail Every once in a while I get the upside down question mark in a box.

undergroundmonorail

3:55 AM

fun

RikerW

@undergroundmonorail Is that seriously what it looks like?

{}_{}

{•}__{•}

undergroundmonorail

it's a single rectangle, not two square brackets

RikerW

@undergroundmonorail kay.

Alex A.

@trichoplax Thanks for the suggestion. We've decided to go ahead and feature it. :)

RikerW

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Doorknob 冰

3:56 AM

hovers over delete button

RikerW

Does that look like a bunch of boxes?

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