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2:13 AM
Mathematica/TWL seems like it should have some type of speech recognition capability, considering the degree and magnitude of tools in the language
 
 
4 hours later…
6:06 AM
0
Q: Can we use Languages/Environments where the answer is computed automatically?

rsaxvcIn this question, I found an answer that required no work, as the act of representing the input computed the output, on an extant, non-hypothetical system. Is this legit? It seemed a lot like using a specifically designed language, but I didn't make this one up. And it does other, general-purpos...

 
 
3 hours later…
9:08 AM
@PeterTaylor So... I figured if this is going to be code golf, then the trick would be to choose k ≤ 7 instead of k > 7. But then I wonder a) can you really do better than hardcoding 7 solutions? And b) just because there's a provably finite time until loneliness doesn't mean that time is bounded, right?
To address a) I guess the input could be k-1 runners, and you're to find the kth runner which maximises time until loneliness, but still it's not obvious to me that there is an upper bound on that time.
@githubphagocyte double post ^^
I just noticed, we don't have a tag. Is it worth distinguishing that from ?
 
what's the difference ? how many questions will fall in the first one ?
 
I'd have to check, but definitely Joe Z's new challenge
 
9:23 AM
coin flip sequence ?
 
yeah
hm, I guess in English "probability theory" is more common than "stochastics"
 
i dont think that is a combinatorics at all
yeah, its just plain probability
 
I'll look through some old questions then
we've got a related tag, but that's definitely a separate thing, too
 
we dont have a probability tag ?
 
no
well now we do
 
9:30 AM
there is atleast another probability question by lembik
 
there are a lot
 
yeah saw ur updates
 
although I'm debating whether challenges which sample probabilities instead of computing them should be tagged with this
or whether a tag is more appropriate in that case
 
Mote Carlo Simulation ?
 
@MartinBüttner Thanks - sorted now :)
 
9:34 AM
"Tasks involving random numbers and/or output."
I think random should be renamed to something a bit clearer :/
Otherwise it does sound as though it could encompass probability
 
@Sp3000 yes, that one should be specifically for random code
 
0
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Sp3000The Goat, the Fence and the Grassy Loci code-golf geometry Bob the farmer has gone on vacation and left poor Billy the kid goat tied to a fence! Fortunately for Billy, the fence is in the middle of a giant field of lush green grass. But unfortunately, thanks to the rope, Billy can't reach all of...

 
@MartinBüttner In addition to free Mathematica, I've just read that the raspberry pi also comes with free python scriptable Minecraft. I'm not familiar with it but now I'm imagining challenges combining the two...
 
Alternatively, this and PC! I'm not sure if Bukkit's still operating though (been out of the loop of Minecraft news)
 
@githubphagocyte I'm not sure how you'd interface Python and Mma
 
9:44 AM
@MartinBüttner "The rope will never be longer than the fence" isn't quite true. My problem is currently is whether or not to have such test cases, because these are the test cases which correspond to the regions on the "other side of the fence" overlapping
"Not wrapping more than once" is more like "Length of rope <= length of fence + minimum distance of Billy from an end of the fence"
 
@Sp3000 if they overlap, that means if I have two ropes of the same length, put one around the left and one around the right edge, they'd touch... which means they're twice as long as the fence... which means one rope is as long as the fence
@Sp3000 25 bytes in CJam, and I can probably still golf it
 
Maybe my idea of "wrapping once" is different, what I mean is, say the example had a 6m fence instead
You can't make the rope itself bend around the fence twice is what I meant
 
well you want to avoid overlap
overlap starts happening when rope-length > fence-length
 
What I was wondering was whether or not to put overlapping cases in
But hmm I guess that'd be pretty annoying, maybe I should get rid of them after all
 
they'd definitely make the problem a lot harder. whether you want that is up to you ;)
 
9:53 AM
Integration and trig!
... nah I'll simplify it on second thought
:P thanks
 
as I said, monte carlo would then probably be shorter
 
Didn't think of that tbh :P
 
@Sp3000 what about taking input as floats?
 
Putting that in as I rewrite :)
 
if you want to generate test cases: l~]{1$\m0e>}*]2f#P2/f*:+ ... input is rope distance fence in integers or floats on one line
 
9:58 AM
Oh thanks :) fast
 
wait, this is not correct
this should be: l~1$-[\]1$f{m0e<}~]2f#P2/f*:+
takes rope fence distance
 
Is it rope distance fence?
Works for 4 3 9 for me
 
oh, you're right
somehow I thought I changed it, but I didn't
 
:) thanks
 
10:22 AM
Well there's some test cases - I guess this'll be on the easier side of questions then :D
(Now I think about it I wouldn't want to solve the overlapping case either)
Hmm I wonder if it's too easy though, as is
@MartinBüttner Thanks for helping - I think I'll come back to the idea later when I have an idea that makes the problem not as trivial
Because currently it seems like all answers will just be S=lambda z,x,y:(x*x+max(0,x-y)**2+max(0,x-z+y)**2)*1.5707963
 
10:45 AM
@Sp3000 maybe a bonus for handling overlapping ones ?
 
I was thinking that, but given the difference in difficulties it'd need to be like a -80% or something
 
u will have to write both sample programs to come at a conclusion
 
11:12 AM
@Sp3000 overlapping seems possible, because I don't think you ever need to consider more than 2 overlapping circles
(intersections between 3 or more circles are very much nontrivial)
which makes me wonder whether a challenge for 3 circles would be interesting...
 
Maybe we could do that instead :P
 
I once read a paper about that when writing mbuettner.github.io/circular-zero/public ... I ended up using Monte Carlo to determine the areas
 
That'll explain why you thought of Monte Carlo so quickly...
 
here is a paper, but I don't recall if it's the one I read back then dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a463920.pdf
 
Looking on the 4th page there sure are a lot more cases than I thought
Hmm PPCG sure has been getting a lot of spam lately, same source?
 
11:23 AM
@Sp3000 very likely... the content seems very similar
I've seen such posts on MSE as well
 
:/ damn
 
11:47 AM
@Sp3000 The problem with the three circles problem is I don't think I'll find the time to solve it myself any time soon (which I'd need to in order to generate test cases)
 
Well I guess it can be an idea for another time then :P
 
11:58 AM
which reminds me, I still need to write the reference implementation for minimum width...
 
so overlapping or not ?
 
I think for the fence+rope challenge overlapping is doable... I think you can only get 2 overlapping circles, because by the time you get a third one, it will be fully contained within one of the earlier two
 
yeah, the most you can have is 1 semi circle and 2 partially overlapped semi circles
 
My main problem is that irregardless of overlapping/not overlapping it just seems like a straight formula implementation and not much of a programming challenge
 
better than converting RGB
 
12:11 PM
:P maybe if the circle-circle intersection formula was a bit more interesting
 
what you can do to bring a challenge concept is to make 1 thing variable and give us the minimum grass required for the goat to be not hungry
 
Oooh that's an interesting idea
 
although even then there might be a closed form solution
 
yeah, you will have to just iterate over 0 to some length
say if rope length is variable.
and u want minimum rope
 
"yeah"? I said the opposite :D
 
12:13 PM
i dunno
 
you could apply a binary search though
(and solve the original problem for each step of the search)
 
12:38 PM
Yeah I think I'll refrain from posting it, I don't think it's a particularly interesting question as is
Thanks for discussing though :) feel free to take the idea if you can come up with a better formulation
 
1:13 PM
@MartinBüttner @Sp3000 I think that is enough for it to be a good challenge
 
1:31 PM
F~AAF\-BBFBAF I've never seen that kind of variable density in CJam :D
 
2:00 PM
:D
I am writing another version which works on m*
but office
 
2:21 PM
much shorter now
 
not bad
 
2:39 PM
So, @MartinBüttner, thoughts on a for testing whether three (x, y) coordinates correspond to a solution to the knishop problem?
 
let me look up knishops...
oh, that's interesting
 
Ah, maybe I misunderstood what you were referring to yesterday evening as out of your league.
 
the proof showing equivalence with tightly bunched coprimes ;)
@PeterTaylor Well I'd have to read up on the background from the answers on Puzzling to know how to actually tackle this, but it's certainly an interesting problem.
 
3:18 PM
that moment when you notice that someone basically duplicated your answer 3 minutes later and then gets twice as many upvotes...
 
which ?
 
meta.stackexchange.com/a/246537/201409 ... in fairness, his example hat is better than mine.
 
how do you write , where x = ... in an equation involving x in latex ?
any special keyword / mathematical notation ?
 
I usually just literally finish the equation with a comma and continue the next paragraph with where $x = ...$.
you can also do it on the same line as the equation if you want, with stuff like ,\qquad\mbox{where $x = ...$}
that's still within the math environment
 
cool. that qqad things looks good
 
3:30 PM
there are other horizontal spacings if qquad is too much for your taste
184
A: What commands are there for horizontal spacing?

WernerThere are a number of horizontal spacing macros for LaTeX: \, inserts a \thinspace (equivalent to .16667em) in text mode, or \thinmuskip (equivalent to 3mu) in math mode; \! inserts a negative \thinmuskip in math mode; \> inserts \medmuskip (equivalent to 4.0mu plus 2.0mu minus 4.0mu) in math m...

 
I think it looks okay.
1
A: Build a program to analyze coin flip sequence choices

OptimizerCJam, 44 38 35 bytes Using the same Conway's Algorithm as in here. ll]_m*{~_,,@f>\f{\#!}2b}/\-:X--Xd\/ Input is the two same length but different sequences in two lines. The output is the probability of first winning over second. I am using the formula for winning odds (p) for first player A...

 
true
would look better with a comma though :P
 
, 4 spaces where looked weird
 
 
1 hour later…
5:01 PM
@PeterTaylor What about a generalisation to n knishops? As far as I understand, the problem is really just "Is this an Erdos-Diophantine graph?" Is that problem significantly different for larger graphs?
 
5:17 PM
Could do, although I don't think it's much more interesting. You pick two points, loop through all candidates relative to those two points, and check them against the other points.
 
ah, I see
well then, go ahead and sandbox it. ;) sounds good to me.
 
5:33 PM
i think i'm gonna post my sandbox question
ATM one
 
with minimal total amount?
 
well, no one is replying. so yes.
 
"more to be added"?
 
that was supposed to mean that in the actual question, more examples will be added
 
I know
will more examples be added? :P
 
5:37 PM
yess
 
+ 2 = 4
(lets see if someone gets it)
 
I don't think your first example is correct
the sum of the inputs is 5100 and the sum of the outputs only 4900, if I didn't miscount
 
its not the minimum ?
 
you can't satisfy the input if you take out less than the sum of the notes you want
 
5:40 PM
ugh i meant to edit there 3600
 
you might want to say explicitly that the result is not unique, and that any result of minimal total amount is acceptable
 
yeah , good point
but, is that the case ?
can u think of another solution to the first example
 
sure, distribute the 3k over several withdrawals... e.g. 600 1600 1600 1600
 
ah..
 
also, I wonder if a complete table of notes up to withdrawals of 7k say would be helpful to visualise the rules.
 
5:49 PM
:D
too much work.
will add though
 
I can do that
it's pretty quick in sublime
 
:D
kudos if you can give it :)
 
edited it into the post
place it where you like
 
Cool. thanks!
 
4 reopen votes on the square challenge although it's still not entirely clear :( (and at least 2 of those were cast while the challenge wasn't fixed at all)
 
6:02 PM
I casted after wards
 
I think it's still unclear what counts as a loop-like construct
 
your repeat example, though syntactically invalid, should be okay, if he allows eval/exec
 
@Optimizer syntactically invalid? did you check every single programming language out there? :P
it was meant to be concise pseudo code anyway...
oh
because the ,n is after the parenthesis
fair enough :D
although I'd say that's semantically invalid :P
 
yes that
my vocab is bad
 
can someone find the Python interpreter of esolangs.org/wiki/Prelude?
 
@IlmariKaronen thanks. I forget archive...
 
archive.org is a terrorist site
by using it, you are helping the terrorist and thus are yourself a terrorist
 
okay.
hehe
# technically we're supposed to shuffle our voices to make sure to perform IO
# in random order, but screw that for now
 
6:45 PM
ah damn... I wanted to write the square root program in Prelude, to then port it to Fugue... but I totally forgot about the no-loop restriction... too bad.
 
@MartinBüttner Which square root program has a no-loop restriction?
 
 
1 hour later…
8:12 PM
@PeterTaylor correction, "square program"
 
I believe they're talking about this question
 
I feel like dwana is in for a gold badge or two
 
Is Dwana a person?
 
the author of that challenge
 
Ah, okay.
 
8:25 PM
y so?
 
Hm, just what I was wondering @Optimizer
I had to completely rewrite that question, I felt the first version was shocking =(
 
11 answers already... including one or two from new users... it's just the thing that's going to go crazy on the HNQ.
@PopeyGilbert I agree, and I still don't think it's a particularly good question. But in that past that hasn't been an indicator for what's a popular question (unfortunately).
 
True, you're probably right
I like challenges like morse the new year and HQ9+ interpreter because they seem to have more essence, and are more unique.
 
@PopeyGilbert where's your answer to morse the new year then? ;)
 
@MartinBüttner I have never done audio manipulation in my life, and have not had the time to learn. I will however, try it at some point =)
Oh.
I just worked out that you wrote the question.
 
8:43 PM
1K to 10K
 
@Optimizer wat?
 
rep
 
9:06 PM
@IlmariKaronen I actually downvoted that loophole as well, because I think it's a matter of picking the right tool for the job. But if the community thinks that isn't cool, then I don't see why using GIF compression for a kolmogorov challenge is.
 
Anyone interested in a python question? I've come across some behaviour I can't make sense of while writing an answer to the colour battle question.
 
@githubphagocyte there's your man for Python
 
@MartinBüttner Where, where?
 
@Sp3000
 
I know why my new function doesn't work - it uses a module level variable without declaring it global at the start of the function. What confuses me is that several of my older functions also refer to the same module level variable and seem to manage to read it and update it even though they don't declare it as global either...
 
9:16 PM
@githubphagocyte Do they change some member of that variable or actually reassign the variable?
 
I thought about asking on StackOverflow but even if I copy the code that works in one function to the new function, it stops working, so I don't know how to get it narrowed down to just the part that's a problem
@MartinBüttner It's a set, and several other functions read from and/or write to that set, and give no error and give expected behaviour.
 
I think accessing and modifying global variables is fine. you only need to declare them global if you want to assign to them.
 
I thought that maybe the new function was doing something different with it, but even copying a line from a working function into the new function results in the same error in the new function
It sounds so wrong that I'm sure I've overlooked something really obvious...
I'm going to try calling the old function from the place I currently call the new function
Nope, it's not that either...
 
Congrats on reaching 10k rep, @grc! :D
5
(haven't seen anyone say that yet)
 
Have you tried printing globals() and locals() at different points in the function and seeing how it changes?
 
9:23 PM
@Sp3000 Will do - thank you :)
 
got the square program working in Prelude (not for the challenge... there's no way to do it without loops, but it was a fun exercise anyway)
           ^+       v+
      9(1-)        v#     ^(1-)
?9-1-(9-   9-9-9-2-#?9-1-)
        v+ #                v+ !
2
including reading the input in decimal from STDIN (newline terminated)
in fact most of the code is for the decimal parsing. only the last 6 columns are doing the squaring
aaaaand, with 3 voices:
           ^+         v+
?9-1-(9(1-)#9-9-9-9-2-#?9-1-)^(1-)
        v+ #                   v+ !
 
@MartinBüttner Looks like an ASCII art airplane
 
@MartinBüttner I don't know Prelude and just looking at that makes my face hurt - so I've put it in the star bar to share the pain :)
 
for those wondering, what the heck I'm on about: esolangs.org/wiki/Prelude
@githubphagocyte I wanted to participate in the popcon with a midi-file but that plan was thwarted by the no-loops restriction
(I could encode that program in a midi file and submit it as a Fugue program: esolangs.org/wiki/Fugue)
 
@MartinBüttner Maybe you could follow up your morse challenge with a challenge to write a program that outputs a Fugue program as an audio file?
 
9:31 PM
@Sp3000 I think this would be fun for a stack snippet interpreter though. Prelude is pretty simple to interpret (the Python reference implementation has 130 very readable lines). And then I might be able to build a Fugue interpreter on top of that.
@githubphagocyte that did occur to me :D
 
Why do people like no loops so much :/ it's basically begging for people to use builtins to hide the banned behaviour
3
Hmm interesting, Prelude doesn't look too hard indeed
 
@Sp3000 yeah :/
the Fugue interpreter will be harder with parsing midi and all
but it would be sick to have that one :D
 
Ahaha yeah. I still think that topic needs more attention but apparently bounties aren't good enough
Interpreters are fun
 
9:44 PM
looks like SE got a new login page
(I'm not on mobile)
 
I wonder how long I am gonna be on top of that square question
 
I love the example password, btw :D
 
eventually, people hating golfing languages will start appearing in
 
lol
I actually think histocrat's deserves to win... just because of how damn clever it is
 
and once the answer goes to second, its gonna lag behind big time
the base conversion trick is not that clever
its in our cjam tips as well
 
9:47 PM
you didn't come up with using it for squaring though :P
 
I have actually seen it being used somewhere
bu his program runs only for input till 36
which is not that clever
 
well it's not his fault that he didn't know a language that supports arbitrary bases ^^
 
yeah, still its not a complete answer.
 
oh the beauty of popularity contests....
 
I'm surprised no-one's done the good old "giant lookip table" yet
 
10:01 PM
@Sp3000 I had that in mind, because I was thinking about a Marbelous answer :D
 
Ahaha well it's basically the only sort of answer I'd personally be satisfied with, but even then you could argue that doing the lookup needs multiplication
 
not by the program...
or you mean multiplication of pointers?
 
Pointers yeah, or was that allowed?
 
no one knows
well in Marbelous there wouldn't even be pointer arithmetic :P (of course there is, somewhere under the hood in the interpreter)
 
XD well I guess you could replace it with a whole bunch of if/else and then nobody could fault it (maybe)
 
10:07 PM
that's what the Marbelous program would basically be
 
:D
 
heh, I thought Prelude was lacking a "duplicate top of stack" instruction, but if you only have a single voice then v and ^ work for that... nifty :D
(if you've got more voices, you have to copy it into an adjacent voice and back)
 
10:28 PM
@Sp3000 MickyT just beat Haskell again
 
@Optimizer Thanks for the heads up. I can't believe those two are still going at it! (Close race)
 

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