ELL's Cabin

Usernew

07:17

@J.R. @MaulikV

can anyone throw some light here please :)

Maulik V

07:34

what happened?

paste the question here

I'll check right now

These comments are deleted as they were obsolete

what do you want to flag now?

I'll check for your concern. Write here even if I'm not online.

ASR

08:52

Hi all

Damkerng T.

10:12

0

A: A plea for better answers from learners and non-native speakers

Maulik made an excellent point in his post: Learners make mistakes and that is how they learn. I hadn't really thought much about it that way before. Initially, I assumed that ELL would be a place where learners would ask the questions, and native speakers would clarify matters in their ans...

@J.R. Thanks for the answer. I have a mixed feeling reading your post. There are several points that I agree with, and there are several points that I don't quite agree. (You can probably guess which part I disagree with. :-) It's not easy to write a careful response to your post, and it's not the best time for me to post anything, so I'll write about some points in a less careful manner here in the chat.

The potential problem (note the "potential" part) in my opinion is based on a few assumptions. One I've already mentioned in my post: Anyone can post an answer. There are other unstated assumptions but implied which I think all of us can see on our site: our site is still relatively small; it's too small to allow the votes work effectively (sometimes); often, new users (learners) don't know how to judge answers and comments and the only thing that is clear to them is the rep points;

And though I agree with his point, "Learners make mistakes and that is how they learn" -- making mistakes is one of the best ways to learn; actually, there's a common saying, I think, along the lines of "the best way to learn is to teach"; however, in an environment like Stack Exchange, but what about the "students";

how should we balance the value of "learning" of a person (the poster of an answer) and the value of "learning" of their "students" (other ELL users who want to learn from the posted answer (both the OP, and the future reader)?; afaict, the underlying concept of SE is gamification, and this is, in essence, a fair game; but how long can we stay a good site if we start to accumulate more and more unworthy or misleading answers, especially ones that have gotten lots of upvotes;

(I'm sure you're aware of voting problems other than not enough votes, e.g., "pity votes" -- the votes that the OP gives to their answers when nobody else casts a vote, "mercy votes" -- the votes that people cast to counter downvotes, usually emotionally, rather than out of reasons, "careless votes" -- upvotes/downvotes that may happen when the voter don't read the answer carefully (I've to admit that I cast careless votes sometimes), and so on.)

Hope to write (rant :-) more, but this is all this time slot allows me to write. Wish to talk to you more often. Thanks for the answer. See you next time!

Damkerng T.

11:20

I've just got another idea, @J.R.!

Things would be entirely different (and perhaps not a bad thing) if we make it clear that we encourage every learner to post answers!

And we try to suggest native speakers to teachers to grade the answers.

Basically, instead of being a site of a collection of good answers, we could turn our site into some kind of a contest site for learners!

What do you think?

(Just a random thought)

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

12:08

@DamkerngT. No no no no no no no!

NO!

NO NO NO!!!

That's a worse idea than WWII.

Damkerng T.

Well, if we welcome all sort of answers from learners...

My thought (that random thought) just stemmed out of that assumption. :-)

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

Then we'll increase the tension.

Hullo @AgnesGruSteven! Welcome to the Cabin!

Damkerng T.

Hello!

Agnes Gru Steven

Thank you. Happy to be here. :)

Damkerng T.

Yay!

Anonymous

12:11

Welcome to ELL chat!

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

@snailboat \o

Sorry, just eating lunch. You guys go on.

Damkerng T.

Sometimes I toy on an idea of changing my username to "Too Late".

Because it's usually "Too Late" for me to edit my messages!

So, my typos (and brainos) are all around!

Anonymous

12:47

Nice hats, you all :-)

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

Tongue

Damkerng T.

I changed my hat back!

Hello, can you hear me? Over

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

Cssssssshhhhht

Damkerng T.

@snailboat Thanks for the nice words! Over

Hee

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

Csssssshhhhhht

I now have 16 hats. Under

Cssssshhhhhhhhht

Damkerng T.

12:50

I got only 12. Over

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

Cssssssshhhhhht

12 is a lot. Under

Cssshhhhhhhhht

Damkerng T.

I don't ever know what I did to get Flip-Flop!

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

@DamkerngT. It just seems to be voting.

Under

Damkerng T.

@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. We've got lots of static noise here! Over!

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

Cssssssssshhhhht

The meta drama has quieted down. Under

Cssssshhhhhhhhhhht

Damkerng T.

12:52

Good, good.

(o)

((o) is for over, btw)

Usernew

@DamkerngT. I think you need to upvote and downvote answers in a question to get "flip-flop" hat.

Damkerng T.

Oh!

Do you know about the number of votes or answers to get the hat?

Usernew

That was a screenshot in response to J.R.'s answer showing that my flags were overlooked. Since you two are the only moderator here, I included it.

Damkerng T.

Argh! I don't *ever know! My fingers are typo generators!

Usernew

lemme check.

@DamkerngT.

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

12:58

@Usernew No.

Usernew

Did you recently or before you got the hat upvoted and downvoted an answer?

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

I gained it by simply upvoting a question.

Damkerng T.

Hmm... I think I haven't downvoted anything this week.

Usernew

hmmm

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

In chem I only have downvoted a Q today, in physics I upvoted a Q and an A, in meta I upvoted two answers and one question.

Usernew

13:00

I earned that after I upvoted a positive answer and downvoted a negative answer on the same question. :)

(in

*in

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

*between

Usernew

so if someone downlvotes and upvotes in a day? dunno

I want the batman hat

Can we exchange hats? :D

Damkerng T.

I can't remember what we need to do to get one.

@Usernew Haha!

Usernew

Who wants a 007 hat?

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

@Usernew Nitrogen oxide

@DamkerngT. Edit something that gets reopened by the others.

Damkerng T.

13:04

Thanks!

Hmm... that shouldn't be too difficult...

Usernew

Who got most of the hats on ELL? any idea?

Damkerng T.

There must be a leader board somewhere.

Hah! I'm (the) Third!

How could it be?!

Usernew

Who's the second and first?

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

@Usernew Depends, SE wide, I have more hats than anyone on ELL or chem has.

Damkerng T.

winterbash2015.stackexchange.com/leaderboard

Subjunctive and J.R.

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

13:06

But in each of the SEs I'm fifth or what.

Usernew

interesting :)

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

I don't understand the hat craze @User. Hats will be gone in about two weeks.

Usernew

I opted out hats

Damkerng T.

Aww

Usernew

haha

then I re-enlist and see if there's any surprise in the box :D

Damkerng T.

13:09

A-ha! It was a trick!

Usernew

:D

Damkerng T.

Maybe there is a hat for that!

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

This is not a fuss! Further, if a moderator thinks it this way, this site will be nothing more than trash in coming days. — Usernew 2 hours ago

Usernew

thanks for the comments question @Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

That doesn't call for constructive discussion @User.

Usernew

13:09

Hat for that? I don't suppose so :(

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

@Usernew You never know what things have hats associated.

I'd recommend everyone to go and edit every tiny bit of their profile momentarily to see if there are any hats associated with it.

Usernew

@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. Agree. But you have to also look at the simple flagging. I can't see how a moderator not chose to make this site better. They are doing a great job, I know, but it was still very easy job for the moderator to read only one line

Damn's comment was very well misleading and that's the reason for me flagging them

Suppose everyone goes to the poster of a comment to ask them to delete them for any reason, then what are the moderators here for? :(

not everyone is as cooperative as Dam

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

@Usernew 1. Human is to err, and even mods err. 2. You shouldn't flag misleading comments solely because they're wrong.

Damkerng T.

It's true that it could be misleading for new users who don't know that they can read edit history, once you edited the answer.

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

@Dam @Dam @Dam

Usernew

13:13

Suppose it was someone else, who would not have listened to me to delete them? what would have happened then?

Damkerng T.

Yes, yes, yes? :-)

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

in The Periodic Table, 1 min ago, by Martin - マーチン

-2

Q: Englische Übersetzung für "So weit war ich auch schon!"

Ich möchte hier nur ausdrücken, dass ich übermittelte Lösungsvorschläge, längst ausprobiert habe (und sie nicht funktionieren).

Damkerng T.

Oh, oh, oh!

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

@Usernew Then the comment wouldn't have been deleted.

Usernew

@DamkerngT. Exactly!

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

13:13

@DamkerngT. I asked it from Mart in the Table, table, table.

Usernew

Yes, and every reader will think my answer to be wrong, which in fact is right

@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

@Usernew Heh, do you think people read comments?

I've come to the sad conclusion that the fraction of the users that do so is small.

Usernew

Well, let me explain again. I wrote an answer. In that answer, a point contradicted what was explained in the source pic in that answer. A user commented pointing out my mistake saying "Doesn't this point contradict the source?" and I corrected it. Now the point doesn't contradict anymore, but the comment still sits there, still saying "Doesn't this point contradict the source?" even when it doesn't contradict anymore, as I have edited it. Now do you get the big picture. Further, if this is the attitude of moderators here, I don't see people much flagging and reporting something — Usernew 2 hours ago

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

On ELL I mean.

Usernew

Yes, but that comment was resting at the very top. anyone could have easily noticed that and could get further confused

@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. we do:D

I won't benefit from flagging things here

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

13:16

@Usernew Next time, flag for mod attention and explain elaborately, but not wordily, why the comment should is obsolete. Then if you got it declined, we can talk.

Usernew

Its just for the betterment for the site

Damkerng T.

+1 to MAR

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

But you know what, @User, obsolete flags are a pain in the A, both for the flagger and the handler.

Damkerng T.

+1 to Usernew, too!

Usernew

@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. Yes, I called for mod attention and explained very well but still declined

Didn't get any point @DamkerngT. :(

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

13:17

So bring it up on meta, constructively, and ask for an elaboration on why you're wrong.

Damkerng T.

@Usernew When MAR said, "Next time, flag for mod attention and explain elaborately, but not wordily, why the comment should is obsolete. Then if you got it declined, we can talk." I +1, when you said "Its just for the betterment for the site", I +1 again!

Usernew

Wrong?

I was kidding about the point thing :( @DamkerngT.

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

+1 to Tuxedo

Damkerng T.

The point thing? (confused)

Usernew

Didn't get any point @DamkerngT.

Damkerng T.

13:19

Ah, perhaps it was about my +1. Sometimes I just type +1 to mean that I agree.

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

Oh crud, I have to get going. I have an appointment with the doctor and a chem class after that. Cya guys in 4 hours.

Damkerng T.

A-ha!

Usernew

See ya!

o/

Damkerng T.

See you! And happy seeing your doctor! :D

Usernew

but what's "and ask for an elaboration on why you're wrong."

Damkerng T.

13:20

I think MAR meant it in general.

Usernew

oh!

Hello @snailboat

Anonymous

Hello!

Damkerng T.

@Usernew When someone wants to post a meta post, often, they must think there is something not quite right.

Usernew

you said you have read "the Little Prince" @snailboat

Yes, but I don't participate in Meta, only comments :(

Damkerng T.

Wow, I wear two different hats in two different rooms! Now I don't want to refresh the pages! :-)

@Usernew Understood. Our meta site is also a good place for longer and more focused discussions about what happens on our site, actually.

Usernew

13:24

Right!

@snailboat Yoo hoo

When the Fox says, "It is the time you have wasted for your rose that makes your rose so important."

Is it same in the Japanese version?

Damkerng T.

How philosophical!

Usernew

I found it queer for the translator to chose "wasted" instead of "spent"

@snailboat

so I am wondering if it's same or not! @snailboat

Check this @DamkerngT.

"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."

2

snailboat has a very different FLip-FLop hat @_@

Damkerng T.

Oh, yeah?

Usernew

I can't see your hats

Damkerng T.

The color looks quite like mine.

I saw one with a different color in another chat room.

Usernew

13:30

Mine has the blue one

Why I cannot see your hats?

Damkerng T.

Oh, I can't see your hats because you're opting out!

I guess it's because you're opting out at the moment.

Usernew

Wait

now check and see

it's different

Damkerng T.

Still can't see it. It may take a while, perhaps.

Usernew

Damkerng T.

A-ha! Yet another color!

Usernew

13:32

Where does Snailboat lives

?

Damkerng T.

In the US of A :-)

Usernew

hahaha

I don't think my reason will stand well now :(

Damkerng T.

Reason? About what?

Usernew

I thought the colour depends on the area we live in

Damkerng T.

Ahh

Usernew

13:34

Like, You have different themes in Windows 7. If you live in USA, you have a different theme. If you live in South Africa, you have a different theme.

If we turn the hat upside down, it would be like a begger's hat :(

Damkerng T.

I don't know. Maybe it's just random.

Usernew

Hello @Araucaria :)

Araucaria

Hi @Usernew :)

Hi @Dam

Usernew

or depends on what kind of things we did @DamkerngT.

Some users are really weird here

Damkerng T.

Hi! @Araucaria

Usernew

13:36

Not you two, of course

Araucaria

@Usernew Of course ;)

Usernew

can anyone give me something?

Araucaria

@DamkerngT. ,@Usernew Everyone else! Some people over on the dark side are saying that ELL hasn't been successful! I think FF's comment under my question needs to be upvoted!!!

7

Q: How to save EL&U

I think one way to massively improve this site would be to start a new Stack Exchange site called something like English Phrase Finder or Word finder or something like that where single word requests, word choices and phrase requests could be answered along with crossword puzzle solutions and the...

discussion on-topic-off-topic scope

Usernew

Damkerng T.

@Araucaria Hah!

Usernew

13:39

I asked Snailboat a question a day ago, no reply

today asked a question

no reply

weird

Damkerng T.

Snailboat could've been busy.

Usernew

probably

@Araucaria Post it on Area 51

Damkerng T.

Sometimes I can only come in and take a quick look at a few questions.

Usernew

I would to see a site like that where questions would not be considered "word Golf"

Araucaria

@DamkerngT., @Usernew Yes, will do. But did you upvote Fumblefinger's comment?

Damkerng T.

13:41

It was done some minutes ago! :D

Usernew

@Araucaria reading through

Araucaria

@DamkerngT. Thanks. ML wrote "ELL hasn't been such a great success. ... – Mari-Lou A 2"

Damkerng T.

Anytime.

Araucaria

Bit cheeky!

Usernew

Done

Araucaria

13:42

@Usernew Thanks :D

Usernew

no problemo! :D

Damkerng T.

I guess she(?) had a different idea of ELL success in mind, and that's all.

Araucaria

@DamkerngT. Yes, maybe ..

Usernew

She is she

@DamkerngT.

Damkerng T.

nods

Usernew

13:44

what do you mean when you nod? @DamkerngT.

?

Damkerng T.

I usually nod in agreement. :-D

Usernew

Hmmmm I thought so :(

Damkerng T.

So when I type nods, you can read it as "Damkerng T. nods". :-)

Usernew

At many places, nod is for disagreement :D

Damkerng T.

Ahh... I've heard about that!

Araucaria

13:45

nods

Damkerng T.

:D

Usernew

nods

ELU or ELL?

Damkerng T.

About the nodding? Neither. It was a long time ago.

Usernew

Neither! :D :P

Actually, I made this profile for movies but somehow landed here :D

I got bored from Yahooanswers/movies :(

Damkerng T.

@Usernew For better or worse. :P

Usernew

13:48

But again, YA > Movies.stackexchange

Damkerng T.

Aww...

Usernew

Some people make it better

Damkerng T.

I haven't used either much.

Usernew

some don't :(

so I am in the middle. :(

I loved recommending movies. I find this lacking in Movies.stackexchange

same goes for Arquade.

Damkerng T.

You could make another proposal! MovieRecommendations.SE :D

And GameRecommendations.SE! :D

Usernew

13:49

but that would not garner much votes :(

haha!

I remember a quesiton

A kid once asked a question

I meant the Kid's mother

saying that her 8/9 years old child is wanting to watch a movie for education

guess what that movie was @_@

Damkerng T.

I have no idea, perhaps it was a movie by Spielberg?

Usernew

nope, even that would have been a faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar better choice

the movie was

drum beats

drum beats louder

Damkerng T.

ba-da-dum

Usernew

this

A mad scientist kidnaps and mutilates a trio of tourists in order to reassemble them into a human centipede, created by stitching their mouths to each others' rectums.

Damkerng T.

Huh?!

Usernew

13:54

I warned that lady.

Kids these days

There is nothing of education in that movie

Damkerng T.

nods

Usernew

it's a gruesome movie

Damkerng T.

I can't even believe there was really such a movie!

Usernew

haha!

There are more weird movies that you can think of :(

worse than that :(

Damkerng T.

nods

I'm sorry, but I've got to go. At least 10-15 minutes.

Usernew

13:56

What's your fav Spielberg movie?

Damkerng T.

See you later!

E.T., of course!

And several more.

Usernew

oh! I will not be available today. Will continue this tomorrow, if you want

Damkerng T.

Okay! Bye! o/

Usernew

Bye! Have a good day/night O/

user124234

19:10

Hi , teachers.
How are you all?

Sir, Damkerng .
I like all the teachers of this site.
They are really appreciated.
May they live long!

Damkerng T.

19:25

@user124234 I'm glad you like the site.

We're all but learners, though.

user124234

No, sir.
You teach us , we are very happy to see such teachers here.
You are all working hard.

Damkerng T.

Um... I suppose I should say, thanks! :-)

I know the cultures are different in different places.

I'm not used to being addressed as a sir, personally. But I understand you.

Please feel free to address me with my name. Calling me Damkerng is fine.

user124234

No , Sir please.
You have taught me just a single word.
I am your slave.
I can't do so.
Please sir , don't deny.
In our country Pakistan ,we call such people teachers.
Please do correct my flaws if I make here.
Thanks for your answer.

Damkerng T.

Thanks for you questions and answers on the main site as well.

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

Hullo @User! Welcome to the Cabin!

user124234

19:33

Thanks, new Sir.
What's your name too?
May I know please?
There is a symbol I can't comprehend what actually it is.

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

People here call me MAR.

user124234

Mar , very cute name.
Yeh, where is Khan brother?

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

My name is capital mu, capital lambda and a ligature of I and R, which makes the set look like an stylish way of writing MAR, even with this boring font of SE. :)

Damkerng T.

Khan is rarely here. In the chat room, I mean.

user124234

Sir , Demerkg.
What's your age?
If you don't mind please.

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

19:36

@user124234 Khan doesn't meet chat.

Damkerng T.

I'm 46 now.

user124234

But , why ?
Mar , sir

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

@user124234 I dunno. Some people think chat is useless, while it certainly is not, since I'm learning stuff from chat waaaaay more than I learn from ELL itself.

That's just personal opinion tho'.

user124234

Awww , Sir.
Dem.
Nice to know.
Anyway, what do you do ?

I was finding this chat room, so that I might meet you people.

Damkerng T.

I do several things. Let's keep things simple and just say that I'm a small business owner. :-)

@user124234 Congrats! And welcome to the room!

user124234

19:40

Yeh, Khan brother is a good person.
He settles my problems regarding Grammar.

Dam ,Sir.
Thank you very much.

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

@user124234 Yayay!

@user124234 Though I hope his answers were more helpful than they currently tend to be.

user124234

Mar , Sir.
What's your age?
Introduce yourself please.

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

OK. I'm 16, from Iran.

A student with some passion for English.

Fairly fluent.

Am I supposed to reveal my passport code?

user124234

Oh , really.
I don't think so .
You are good at English.
Your age can't be 16.

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

OK if you say so. It's 16.96

@Dam how much time is left of that countdown?

Damkerng T.

19:45

I haven't checked. I let Siri remember that for me.

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

SIRI!

HEY SIRI!

Wake him up please.

user124234

I am just shocked.
Anyway, I am also a student.
I also like to stay connected with you people so that I may brush up my English.

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

I may also stay connected with you people to polish my English.

Damkerng T.

@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. It looks like it's 4 days 19 hours and about 10 minutes left.

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

@DamkerngT. OK.

user124234

19:48

Sir ,is there any flaw in my previous comment?

Damkerng T.

The brush up one? It's fine.

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

@user124234 No flaws I can see, but "brush up" isn't something I'd use.

BTW @user punctuation marks come exactly after the word.

> 1. I am a student . ← bad punctuation
> 2. I am a student. ← good punctuation

user124234

My punctuation power is very weak.
I also want to polish it.

Thanks for correctness.

Damkerng T.

My punctuation skill would be better.

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

Don't worry. Step by step we improve!

user124234

19:52

Thanks for correcting my mistakes.

Damkerng T.

You're welcome. :D

user124234

Dam , sir.
Thank you very much.
I will not leave to use this chitchat.
I will come daily.

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

Hey @Dam just changed the hat. I look like the "lifeless nerd" I am.

@user124234 That was my feeling the first day!

Damkerng T.

Oh! -- checking the hat out...

A-ha! The Carl Fredricksen hat!

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

0

A: What is the opposite of sunny when there is no sun in the sky?

When there is no sun in the sky, you could say it is moonny.

HEHEHE

Damkerng T.

19:55

I guess it could make sense. :D

user124234

Sir , your display picture is very strange.
Dam sir , hehehe

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

Now it's less strange.

user124234

Hahaha

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

@user124234 It's because of these stickers we stick to our avatars during winter bash.

My main profile picture is a molecule.

A dodecahedrane.

user124234

Mar , sir.
Your display picture too.

Damkerng T.

19:58

Oh, you meant my avatar picture? It's a friendly robot by Honda. :D

user124234

Yep, that's great.

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

Dodecahedrane

Dodecahedrane is a chemical compound (C20H20) first synthesised by Leo Paquette of Ohio State University in 1982, primarily for the "aesthetically pleasing symmetry of the dodecahedral framework". In this molecule, each vertex is a carbon atom that bonds to three neighbouring carbon atoms. The 108° angle of each regular pentagon is close to the ideal bond angle of 109.5° for an sp3 hybridised atom. Each carbon atom is bonded to a hydrogen atom as well. The molecule, like fullerene, has Ih symmetry, evidenced by its proton NMR spectrum in which all hydrogen atoms appear at a single chemical shift...

I'M A NERD AND I KNOW IT. ᕙ(⇀‸↼‶)ᕗ

user124234

Sir, why don't you upload your genuine pictures?

Anonymous

Welcome to ELL chat, @user124234!

Damkerng T.

Hello, @snailboat!

user124234

19:59

Thank you so much.
Sanil sir.

Anonymous

Hello! Please don't call me sir :-)

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

LOL

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