ELL's Cabin

Jéferson Bueno

01:54

Hei

Damkerng T.

Hi, @JéfersonBueno!

Jéferson Bueno

Hi @DamkerngT.

Where are you from?

Damkerng T.

I'm from Bangkok, Thailand. :D

Saying that makes me feel like I'm in a Miss Universe competition or something. :P

What about you?

Jéferson Bueno

hahahah

I'm from Brazil D:

Damkerng T.

Hehe! -- Got it!

Oh, it must be in the late evening over there.

Jéferson Bueno

02:05

Yes, is 23h

Ops

11PM hehe

Damkerng T.

23h is fine with me. It's a little easier to read actually. :D

Jéferson Bueno

:D

What time is it there?

Damkerng T.

It's 9:12 (am).

Jéferson Bueno

wow

Are you working right now?

Damkerng T.

Yes. Sort of. I usually work whole night through.

Jéferson Bueno

02:13

Are you a developer too? hehe

Damkerng T.

@JéfersonBueno Yup. An old timer, actually.

Jéferson Bueno

It is a normal behavior for developers hehe

Damkerng T.

I guess so! :D

Jéferson Bueno

Which language you work?

Damkerng T.

I can work with several languages.

But my language of choice is Tcl, though it's not always my call to choose.

Also, Tcl doesn't work on mobile. (At least not for anything serious.)

Jéferson Bueno

02:20

Nice. I don't know Tcl yet

Damkerng T.

It's sort of an industrial secret. :P

Also, it's one of the most misunderstood languages. (Try searching for "Tcl the misunderstood".)

Jéferson Bueno

hahaha, I will google it

Damkerng T.

BTW, if you've installed Python on your machine, chances are you already have Tcl installed. :D

Jéferson Bueno

Really? I can't believe :P

I've Python

Damkerng T.

Try this code:

May 7 at 15:44, by Damkerng T.

> import Tkinter
interp = Tkinter.Tk()
print interp.tk.eval('return "Hello, world!"')

(Don't type the > sign, though. That's just the chat formatting.)

Jéferson Bueno

02:28

Ohh, nice :D

Damkerng T.

Hehe!

Jéferson Bueno

Python is a very lovely language

hehe

Damkerng T.

Indeed. When Python was still very young, it faced the same problem every new language back then faced: how to deal with GUI. The easiest possible way was to piggybag on Tcl/Tk. And that was what they did. ;-)

I like Python as well.

In a lot of ways, particularly it can deal with matrices almost like in MATLAB.

Jéferson Bueno

Sorry, but what you mean with 'piggybag'?

Damkerng T.

Instead of implementing its own GUI from scratch, Python uses Tcl/Tk to do the GUI stuff for it.

It was the only way back then.

Now you have a lot more choices.

Still, Tcl/Tk is included in almost all Python installations, afaict.

jimsug

02:34

@DamkerngT. "piggyback"

Jéferson Bueno

Ahhhhh understand

Damkerng T.

Ah, sorry! My lexitron seems not to work properly at this late hour!

Piggyback was what I meant as jimsug said.

Jéferson Bueno

AHHHHH, now it makes sense hehehehe

Damkerng T.

@JéfersonBueno BTW, lexitron is not standard English. I sometimes talk about myself as if I were a real robot, though. (Note my avatar. :P)

(I've got lexitron, grammatron, parsing library, language processing module, and such. :-)

Jéferson Bueno

Hahaha, ok

And a *nix kernel

:P

Damkerng T.

02:39

Oh, I love *nix kernel!

Jéferson Bueno

Me too. But I work with Visual Studio, which makes me spend a lot of time in a Windows machine

:/

Damkerng T.

Ahh... Don't worry. Windows is becoming more and more like an OS for small devices. :-)

Jéferson Bueno

I hope so

Indeed, I like Windows

Damkerng T.

Oh, a couple months ago, they said in the news that people who buy Raspberry Pi 2 can install Windows 10 on it for free.

I haven't followed up whether it's true or not.

Jéferson Bueno

Wow, that's a good new

I believe this, they're becoming a "new MS"

Damkerng T.

02:44

:D

Jéferson Bueno

I'm sorry for my bad english. You know, I'm here to practice

Damkerng T.

Don't worry. That's why this room exists.

You may find the main site (ELL) interesting too.

I think I've gotta take a break. It was a nice chat.

Hope to see you more often 'round here. :)

o/

Jéferson Bueno

Yeap, I'm seeing now

You'll see me, certainly

Jéferson Bueno

03:03

I'm going to bed

See you later

Anonymous

05:43

Welcome to ELL chat, Jéferson!

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

08:03

@DamkerngT. Technetium iodide?

Welcome to ELL's Cabin @Jef!

Your English is actually better than mine.

@jimsug He just loves to use that word.

Jude Niroshan

08:55

Good Afternoon everyone!

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

\o

Jude Niroshan

Looking for a short n sweet name for my blog

basically, articles will be relate to coding.. But i'm not going to struck on to it. Sometimes i might write some of my life events too. @inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M so, can you help me with this?

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

09:15

Yes.

Just some moments. .

CopperKettle

Sentences. 1a is the most idiomatic (with no other context); I'd say 2c just shades it, but there's little to choose here. — Edwin Ashworth 5 mins ago

I'm wondering what does this mean: just shades it..

Hi, @inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M!

Hi, @JudeNiroshan!

Jude Niroshan

@CopperKettle Hi!

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

\o

@CopperKettle Covers it. . .

CopperKettle

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M Thanks!

Hakase

09:37

fellas!

could you recommend a phone app that can be used to learn less commonly used English words?

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Hullo @Haka!

Would you want a dictionary, a game, what?

Hakase

me and my buds at Anime&Manga chat are looking for an app like that to use while commuting

probably something with a dictionary that gives me new words every time, where I can select "I know that word, don't show it to me again" or "hmm this is new, maybe remind me of this word after some time"

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Oh, I dunno if such thing exists. Do you @Copper?

Hakase

no gamey stuff required, I just want to learn new fancy words

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Well, the advice we give to learners is to learn new words in a context, not separately.

Hakase

09:42

of course usage examples would be required, but I suppose such an app would naturally have that already

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Reading news is one of the optimum ways for learning new words; if that is purely your purpose as I speculate.

Hakase

before bluntly searching on app stores I thought I'd ask here and in ELU's chat

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@Hakase Most of the times, a sentence isn't enough to show what or how the word is really used.

I strongly advise against doing so for learning words.

Hakase

dictionary + examples + thesaurus I think would be enough

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

In the long run, it's more harmful than useful, but you might just download books and view them.

I think The Free Dictionary's app is what you're looking for @Haka.

Or the closest match.

Hakase

09:45

I see

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

I know it has an app for Win8 and Win8-phone; not sure if it has for android/IOS (though I doubt there isn't).

Hakase

well then, I'll be looking on my own, and if I find something cool enough I'll share the knowledge

CopperKettle

@Hakase - try Anki

BBL

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Yeah, Anki's good too.

@CopperKettle Later!

Even native Englishers use Anki @Haka.

Hakase

hmm looks very much like what I'm looking for

thanks!

I'll tell the others

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

09:48

Thank @Copper.

Hakase

@Copper mini tanks!

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Fighter jets!

Hakase

what about memrise?

Damkerng T.

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M Even?

That's kinda new, y'know?

in Language Overflow, Jul 15 at 11:37, by Damkerng T.

For example, in http://www.wsj.com/articles/eurozone-leaders-reach-unanimous-agreement-on-greece‌-says-eus-tusk-1436771076, you'll find surrender, bailout, austerity, overhauls, volatility, acrimonious, debt-stricken, overwhelmingly, referendum, vehemently, deteriorating, harbor, retrenchment, coalition, reliant, cobble, bewilderment, sovereign, default, arrears, cushion, recession, inflict, arduous, avert, enacting, debacle, indispensable, nominal, disbursed, legislation, ...

@Hakase Any new word in the above message?

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@Dam what counts as a good ratio?

How many of those words should I know?

Damkerng T.

09:59

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M I don't know, perhaps all. :D

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Darn.

I dunno 3.

Hakase

6

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Oh, and I dunno what whad means.

0

Q: Whad does "pray in" to church mean here?

I'm back again with a new Hitchens question. First of all, I couldn't decide whether I should post the question here or to the Christianity site. But it seemed like a grammatical question to me. So here it is. Every week, at special ceremonies in Mormon temples, the congregations meet and are g...

Hakase

heh

Damkerng T.

If you can find new words up there, and these words are words that you want to learn, reading things like WSJ probably helps.

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M Hehe! :D

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M Reminds me of my *piggybag earlier today.

Hakase

10:02

except I resent any newspapers for the topics they discuss are absolutely uninteresting to me

Damkerng T.

@Hakase That's a big problem!

Hakase

context is indeed important, but it's hard to keep reading the context that sucks

Damkerng T.

What kind of stuff would you like to read?

(Me thinking that maybe journalese in magazines may work instead of stuff like WSJ.)

Hakase

I don't want to spend a lot of time reading, really, I'm just in it for the rarely used words so I could maybe impress a girlfriend or something, idk

Damkerng T.

Ahh... I see.

Anything Flashcards would help, then.

Hakase

10:04

you guys seems to think I want to be able to understand some newspapers but that's completely not the case :)

Damkerng T.

@Hakase I (incorrectly) thought that it might've had something to do with GRE/GMAT/etc.

Hakase

my neighbor teaches English and most of his students actually do want to be able to read newspapers, which I don't really understand

Damkerng T.

Maybe it's their goals? (to be able to read newspapers)

Hakase

probably, I can only imagine what these folks might be thinking

Damkerng T.

True! :)

Hakase

10:08

"going abroad", "being able to understand movies and newspapers", "discussing weather with new acquaintances", "making smalltalk with cab drivers"

probably seems very cool to them

in any case, I see that the flashcards are the sort of thing I'm looking for

if you guys wanna talk about anime, manga, chat bots or anything else in a larger room, get in here

Damkerng T.

nods -- Flashcards are very effective, at least in the short-term.

^_^

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

10:40

@Hakase They've been watching a lot of movies.

Jéferson Bueno

11:09

Hi everyone

Stack Exchange

0

Q: Are Parts of Speech / Syntactic Grammar most on topic here? (vs on other SE sites)

I don't normally come on ELL, I'm a native English speaker, but I don't think I have much real capacity to answers the questions of others on it. Recently in my post-grad research in computational linguistics, I've found that my (primary/secondary) education has been lacking in covering parts of...

discussion off-topic

Damkerng T.

11:54

Hi @JéfersonBueno!

Jéferson Bueno

Hi, still awake hehe

Damkerng T.

LOL

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

12:28

@JéfersonBueno Hullo!

Jéferson Bueno

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M Hi

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

How are you?

I think you're more or less correct. However, parts of speech are important for many learners because without having some ideas about the PoS of English, it's almost impossible for learners to understand complicated sentences. Then again, the PoS that learners need to know, IMHO, don't have to be a very precise set, just enough to enable the learners to see sentence structures would be fine. However, in part-of-speech tagging tasks (computational linguistics), you may need to be more precise, and may need to force yourself to deal with ambiguous cases (e.g. what is here in They're here.) — Damkerng T. 53 mins ago

Hehe sounds like @Dam proving a point to himself.

Damkerng T.

Could be, could be. :P

Jéferson Bueno

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M fine, fine. And you?

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Great, tanks!

And jets.

Jéferson Bueno

12:43

:D

Where are you from?

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Iran.

Jéferson Bueno

Wow, cool

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Which is (Thailand + Brazil / 2) or avrg[thailand, brazil].

Jéferson Bueno

hehe

Are you a programmer too?

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Nah.

Jéferson Bueno

12:51

Correct is "are you a programmer?" or "you are a programmer?"? :P

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Hah!

Well, my profile and actions speak louder than words.

Jéferson Bueno

chemist :P

(is that the correct word?)

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Yes.

Actually, semi-chemist; I'm only 16.

Jéferson Bueno

Oh, very young

user116848

16:36

@snailboat @inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M Howdy!

user116848

18:33

2

Q: Can we say "you can [not go] to school" or does it automatically become a negative sentence?

"You can [not go] to school." Can this sentence mean that you can stay here and not go, or does it automatically become a negative sentence if I say it like this?

grammar negation modal-verbs auxiliary-verbs negative-polarity-items

user116848

This is interesting:

user116848

So cannot and can not are different.

user116848

I had read it somewhere but forgot the difference.

user116848

"cannot" and "can't" are a definite "You are unable (or not allowed) to do this". "can not" can be either "You can't do this", or "You have the ability to abstain from doing this" - a subtle but distinct difference depending on context. — Majenko 6 hours ago

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

I think I can imagine cases where they aren't interchangeable.

user116848

18:40

I have a habit of using cannot almost all the time.

user116848

"can not" indicates stress they say.

user116848

+1, nice post! :) . . . aside: There might be a post somewhere on the differences between "can't" and "cannot" and "can not"; though not sure if it is on one of these sites. — F.E. 30 mins ago

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Yes it does.

Sometimes it's just what you speculate it to be.

user116848

Wow, many people looking for bounty on ELL "price vs cost" question.

user116848

Yesterday there was only 1 answer.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

18:51

Meh, I think @Cat deserves and will get it.

Anonymous

21:39

@Arrowfar I typed up the relevant portion from CGEL earlier. Let me quote it here:

Anonymous

> Can has an additional variant form cannot, unique in that not (the etymological source of the /nt/ suffix), complete with its vowel, is attached to the lexical base.

Anonymous

> This form is more common in the written language than in speech, though the distinction in writing between the single word cannot and the word sequence can is not matched by that between /ˈkænɒt/ (one /n/ and stress on the first syllable) and /kən ˈnɒt/ (two /n/'s and stress on the second syllable). In cannot, as in can't, the negative is invariably external, having scope over the modality, whereas this is not so with the analytic negative can not; see Ch. 3, §9.10.

Anonymous

> Cannot is more formal in style than can't. It is hardly possible in pre-subject position: Can't / ?Cannot we stay a little longer?; Not only can't / *cannot he find the key, he's not even sure the papers are in the office anyway!

Anonymous

(CGEL p.1611)

Anonymous

@Arrowfar Hello!

Anonymous

21:41

"Are you a programmer?" ← This is a normal question. This is usually what you want to say.
"You're a programmer?" ← This is a declarative question. You need a special reason to use this sort of question.

user116848

@snailboat Hey :)

Anonymous

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M Sure, native speakers of English use Anki for various reasons. I've used it quite a bit for Japanese, although I don't use it so much anymore. Sometimes I think about making a new deck with a much smaller set of information :-)

Anonymous

@Arrowfar My dad's visiting, so I'm only here for a couple minutes, but I'll be checking in later again too :-)

user116848

@snailboat Nice explanation.

user116848

@snailboat Yes sure. Always nice to chat with ya!

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