ELL's Cabin

Damkerng T.

09:41

Evening @Jim!

Jim Reynolds

10:00

@Dam!

Damkerng T.

:D

Jim Reynolds

How's your current flowing today?

Damkerng T.

I'm watching Asia's Got Talent and evaluating their accents in the process. :-)

Jim Reynolds

@snailboat said her snails were sleeping, just above.

Damkerng T.

Yes!

Jim Reynolds

10:02

I wondered if they might be secretly reading with little flashlights, inside their shells.

Damkerng T.

@JimReynolds I imagine they could be doing that right now!

Jim Reynolds

Junky horror novels, probably.

The Great Salt Lake.

Damkerng T.

Or some alien fiction. :P

Jim Reynolds

:-)

Damkerng T.

See, out of the two Asian-looking judges in the show (there are two Western-looking judges in the show, and this is my first time watching this show), I find Vanness Wu's accent is quite impressive...

So I checked, and found that he was born in Santa Monica, California.

I'm waiting to hear the hosts speak more again.

I think one speaks better than the other. (Though both of them are pretty good on stage.)

(BTW, I think Vanness Wu's accent is somewhat different from AmE accents I know.)

Hmm... interesting...

I think they (the hosts) just have Singaporean accents, and probably that's all.

Ahh... The hosts are Marc Nelson and Rovilson Fernandez...

See how much I can gather their backgrounds.

A-ha! Marc Nelson holds two nationalities Australian and Burmese. He was born in Scotland and raised in Burma and Thailand.

I guess that's why his English is good, and his English accent is really, really almost native-like.

Rovilson Fernandez was born in Japan, raised in San Jose, California, moved to Manila when he was 21.

Ahh... I think that explains his accent.

(I thought it was Singaporean, but it looks like it's Filipino one. Maybe he had to adjust his accent to blend in.)

Damkerng T.

10:38

2

A: What's the valid term for a "base" for plants?

@Lucky's answer contains the formal terminology, vegetative propagation. Informally this process is called cloning and the cuttings are referred to as clones. The plant the clones come from is called the parent. If male, it can be referred to as the father, if female, as the mother.

Ah! It's a different "cloning"!

Nice to know!

0

Q: "discuss certain matter" is there any mistake in this sentence?

Find the mistake .. : We said we were discussing certain matter then. so what about this answer: We said we were discussing a certain matter then. do you think the question is wrong and there's no mistakes in the sentence? and what about the answer?

The question reminds me of something I've said about language tests (which is also applied to exercises)

in English Language Learners, Nov 24 '14 at 7:30, by Damkerng T.

The trick is: Be the average person.

Most of the tests or exercises are aimed at average people, they don't expect us to think too much or too deep.

"Hey, let's discuss dark matter today."

That's not something an average person would say in their everyday language!

user62015

Hi! @DamkerngT.

How is going there?

Damkerng T.

10:58

@user62015 How's it going here? Good. Thanks!

How're you doing?

user62015

I am doing great.

Thanks.

There is a sentence: You might want him to lose to Manny Pacquiao.

What if I rewrite it this way: You might want him to lose from Manny Pacquiao

Does it sound fine?

Damkerng T.

It depends a lot on meaning.

So, what do you want it to mean?

user62015

I just want to make it clear that 'he might lose the fight from Manny'.

Damkerng T.

No, you can't say lose from here.

user62015

In the first sentence I did not understand why the report used it 'to'

Okay.

Damkerng T.

11:09

You can use lose to or lose against for this meaning.

user62015

Okay.

I will lose the match to xyz.

Does it make the sense?

Damkerng T.

Yes, but it's weird!

user62015

Okay.

How and why?

I will lose the match against xyz?

Damkerng T.

I mean, it sounds like you're going to cheat (by losing the match).

user62015

Okay.

So the word 'against' making sense?

In the same case.

Damkerng T.

11:12

Yes, approx. the same. But you can stick with lose to to keep it simple.

user62015

So why 'to' was sounding cheating?

Damkerng T.

Both sounds like you're going to cheat as planned.

It's because of the part "I will".

user62015

Okay.

Damkerng T.

Only with a right context, "I will" will mean "I'm going to".

user62015

I can lose the match to xyz, if I don't work hard.

Does it make the sense?

Damkerng T.

11:15

That works!

user62015

And 'I will lose the match to xyz, if I don't work hard'

It also makes sense?

Damkerng T.

Now it makes sense.

user62015

But what if I rewrite it: I will lose the match from xyz, if I don't work hard.

Does it sound fine? Or we should use 'to'

after the word 'lose'

Damkerng T.

No, from doesn't sound good to me.

user62015

I just want to confirm it.

Damkerng T.

11:16

Okay! :-)

user62015

Thanks. You helped me a lot. See you soon.

Damkerng T.

Welcome, and see you!

user62015

Which boxer do you support? I meant to ask who will win the match?

Damkerng T.

Do you mean, is Which boxer do you support? a good sentence?

user62015

No.

I am asking your opinion on the fight.

It is not a question of English.

Damkerng T.

11:21

Oh, I see. :-)

user62015

It goes to you. If you watch boxing?

Damkerng T.

Let's say I'll cheer Manny Pacquiao. :-)

user62015

Aren't you from the USA?

Damkerng T.

No, I live in Bangkok.

user62015

Where my English is not good. Please point me out.

Honestly?

Damkerng T.

11:22

Yes.

@user62015 Okay! (I remember you've said that before. :-)

user62015

Are you from Bangkok? Or just staying there for now.

Thanks.

Damkerng T.

I was born and raised in Thailand. I'm Thai.

user62015

Okay.

Have you visited India?

Damkerng T.

I've never had a chance. Not yet. :-)

What town are you from?

user62015

Okay. But I hope you will have it soon.

I am from New Delhi.

The capital of the country.

Damkerng T.

11:25

@user62015 I'll look forward to it. Thanks!

@user62015 A-ha!

user62015

Sounds good.

So how did you learn the language that much good?

Damkerng T.

Hmm... I think I can divide my English learning into four phases.

user62015

Okay. Please go ahead.

I would love to listen to it.

Damkerng T.

I guess my first phase is pretty much the same as how you learned English in school.

user62015

Okay.

Damkerng T.

11:27

It was about words, grammar, reading, etc., which didn't work really well for me.

user62015

Then?

Damkerng T.

Until I found a book, a really great book, that taught me how to spot verbs in sentences, which helped me to move on to the next phase.

So, the 2nd phase is about knowing how to read sentences properly.

user62015

Okay.

Could you tell me the name of the book?

Damkerng T.

Ah, I'm sorry. I wish I could remember the title of the book, too!

It was a Thai book, BTW.

The 3rd phase came when I had to start using English in my work.

And I had been staying in this 3rd phase for so long.

user62015

That's fine. So how many hours did you read?

Damkerng T.

11:31

During the 2nd phase? Or you mean reading that grammar book that taught me how to spot the main verb?

user62015

No. I meant to ask how many hours did you read, when you were learning it?

Damkerng T.

Hmm... I didn't count, but I remember that I hadn't really read much before I felt like I could spot the main verbs in any sentences.

user62015

Okay.

Damkerng T.

I remember that in my 2nd phase, reading news in newspapers was still challenging for me because even though I knew the structure of the sentences, I didn't know a lot of words.

user62015

And what is the 4rd phase?

Damkerng T.

11:35

Oh, that was about two years ago, when I "opened" my ears.

user62015

I agree!

Ahahahahah

Were they not working before that?

Damkerng T.

It worked, but not really well.

user62015

Okay.

Damkerng T.

Looking back, I think what I was doing (in the 3rd phase) was more like "reading lips" instead of "listening".

user62015

Let me know, please?

Damkerng T.

11:36

It's tough work; I'm not sure if I'd want to recommend it.

user62015

I love hard working.

Damkerng T.

But if you can do it, I assure you, you will never think of English the same way as before.

user62015

Sure.

Let me know.

Damkerng T.

Let's say, in your English classes, when it's about listening, your teachers would tell you to focus on comprehension, right?

user62015

Yes.

Damkerng T.

11:39

In order to reach my 4th phase, I had to do exactly the opposite: throwing away the comprehension out of the window.

Would you like me to just tell you all about it, or would you like me to guide you through it (let's say we can do it together in about 3 weeks, to develop your ears)?

user62015

Okay.

Sure.

I would love to do the hard job which can make me a native English speaker. Which does not make any mistake.

Go ahead, Please.

Damkerng T.

I mean, if you want me to guide you through it, I will not tell you everything but will tell you only the activities you need to do, and you come back to me, talk about it together and get more new activities, every 2-3 days.

user62015

Make your choice which would be better for me.

Sure. Sounds good.

Damkerng T.

Okay, let's try the latter! :-)

user62015

Go ahead.

Damkerng T.

11:43

The first activity is relatively simple, pretend that you're going to be in a singing competition.

user62015

Okay.

Damkerng T.

And the song that the show picked for you is in a language you haven't heard before.

user62015

I am there!

Damkerng T.

Not your first language, not English.

user62015

Okay.

Damkerng T.

11:44

BTW, how many languages have you learned?

user62015

Nothing, I just love English and my mother language.

Damkerng T.

I see. Then, I think Hawaiian and French would do.

user62015

But I have been working on English for almost ten months.

Damkerng T.

Ahh

user62015

I work each day almost six hours.

Damkerng T.

11:45

I think you're doing great!

Wait, I forgot to ask you one thing, how old are you?

user62015

Thanks.

I am 25.

Under it.

And you?

Damkerng T.

Ah, okay. The younger you are, the easier you can open your ears, I believe.

I'm 45 now.

So I think you can do it faster than me. :D

user62015

Sounds good.

Damkerng T.

Let me find a clip for you...

user62015

I don't believe. I just believe age is just a number. Your hard work and desire are more important that.

Sure.

I am here.

Damkerng T.

11:47

@user62015 Indeed!

user62015

Take your time.

Thanks.

Damkerng T.

Can you find a clip titled 04 'Ulili E (Vocal Duet With David Kamakahi on YouTube?

(I don't know why I can't open YouTube on my browser at the moment; maybe it's my ISP.)

user62015

Sure.

Let me try. Please wait.

Thanks for waiting. Were you talking about it (Dennis Kamakahi and David Kamakahi - 'Ulili E from the album OHANA (Family))?

Damkerng T.

Yes!

It's a soundtrack from The Descendants.

So, you have it now, right?

user62015

Yes. I do.

Damkerng T.

11:51

Yay!

The task is relatively straightforward: transcribe its lyrics

Because it's neither your first language nor English, you're free to write the sounds you can hear however you like!

Just make sure that you understand what you write when you read it again later.

Here is a second song:

Edith Piaf - NON, JE NE REGRETTE RIEN - legendado

►

user62015

Let me confirm, you want me to write the lyrics while I am listening to it?

Damkerng T.

(It's French. I can access YouTube now! Yay!)

user62015

Great.

I am happy for you!!!

Damkerng T.

@user62015 Yes, without looking up the lyrics on the web.

user62015

I agree.

Damkerng T.

11:55

Use only your ears, and try to transcribe (write down) the lyrics as close as possible, the best you can.

user62015

I should just try to watch the lips movement and then write, right?

Damkerng T.

@user62015 The second video was chosen because you can see her mouth and lips clearly.

user62015

So should I choose the second one?

Damkerng T.

I recommend you do both.

user62015

So first I am going to choose the second one.

Should I go ahead and listen to it?

Damkerng T.

11:57

(You can do some more songs if you'd like. Do this for a few days. Tell yourself you can hear the sounds as they really are, not as you think they are.)

Yes, go ahead! This is your first task for the first few days.

user62015

Please wait. Let me complete the first song for now.

Damkerng T.

Ah, okay! Take your time.

user62015

Thanks.

Damkerng T.

BTW, you don't have to push yourself too hard. You can take a break at any time. Keep in mind that you can always come back to the task later.

user62015

Sounds good.

I am back after the first song.

Damkerng T.

12:02

Oh, one more thing! Try to catch the sounds the best you can. This means that you will have to use forward and backward buttons quite a lot. ;-)

user62015

But honestly I did not understand anything. I just understood that it was a sad song as people were so serious in the song and some of them were crying.

Damkerng T.

(I assume that you play the clip on your small device, possibly a smartphone.)

@user62015 That's the first step of "throwing the comprehension away".

user62015

Okay.

I did again.

I am not sure how it will help me. It is very interesting.

Could you tell me what will it do?

I am curious to know it?

Damkerng T.

@user62015 It will allow you to be able to hear sounds clearly.

Which in turn will help you to hear sounds in other languages more clearly.

Which in turn will help you to digest more input in the same amount of time you spend on learning a second language.

user62015

It will allow me to hear the sounds clearly, right?

Damkerng T.

12:08

Yes!

Oh, sorry for the typo!

user62015

Okay. Sounds good.

I was focused when listening to it.

It took my interest automatically. '

Damkerng T.

@user62015 Right? :-) It's because it's neither your first language nor English. ;-)

Evening @Fantasier!

user62015

Okay.

So what should I do for the next few days?

Damkerng T.

@user62015 So, you've finished transcribing the first song, right?

user62015

Listen to songs from different languages.

Damkerng T.

12:12

@user62015 Doing just this when you feel like you want to.

user62015

Yes. I did.

Okay.

Damkerng T.

@user62015 Yes, it's a skill, not knowledge, so you need to keep doing it until you can do it automatically and effortlessly.

@user62015 Oh, good! Now you have to check your result. :D

user62015

Honestly. I couldn

Damkerng T.

Go find the lyrics and check your transcription. Spot the errors, and listen to that parts of the song again, until you can hear the correct sound.

user62015

Couldn't write much.

Damkerng T.

12:14

@user62015 Oh, I see. Which song did you pick?

Ulili E?

user62015

Edith Piaf - NON, JE NE REGRETTE RIEN - legendado

Damkerng T.

Okay.

You said you couldn't write much. What do you mean?

user62015

I think, it was not possible for me to write the lyric as it was my first time.

ahahahahha

Damkerng T.

Oh, I see. Don't worry. I didn't expect you to get it right the first time.

user62015

Like I couldn't understand much. I could understand it was a serious song which was based on a child.

Something like that.

I just consider.

Damkerng T.

12:16

(I wonder if anyone will get it completely right even after the first week.)

@user62015 I see. Okay, let's forget the whole song. How about transcribe only the first few lines first?

user62015

Which I searched on the web?

Or which I wrote?

Damkerng T.

And then work your way toward the end of the song.

@user62015 Okay. Tell me what's the first line (verse) you think she sings?

user62015

As per me, right? Which I understood.

Damkerng T.

0:23 - 0:28

@user62015 Yes!

user62015

She sings "no riya riya" something like that.

Damkerng T.

12:20

Very close!

user62015

I have not checked the lyric on the web yet.

Oh!

Damkerng T.

What about the second line?

0:29 - 0:33

user62015

I just need to get the words she speaks. I don't need to translate it, right?

Damkerng T.

Yes! Don't worry about the meaning.

user62015

I think, I can do it now.

Damkerng T.

12:21

Yay!

user62015

It seems more easy now.

Let me listen to it.

Damkerng T.

nods -- Take your time.

user62015

She says "no run riye riya"

Something like that.

It is interesting!!!

Damkerng T.

Do you hear the same thing at 1:35?

user62015

Let me check.

ahahhaha

Yes. She does.

Damkerng T.

12:25

Okay, what if I tell you that there is a sound behind "no run riye riya"?

user62015

Like what?

Damkerng T.

Like an "n". :D

user62015

Yes.

Damkerng T.

Now you can hear the "n" sound after "riya", right?

user62015

At 1:35?

Damkerng T.

12:27

Both. She sang the same line.

user62015

Let me recheck.

ahahahahaha

I think, she says 'no riya the riya'

I could not hear the 'n' sound.

Damkerng T.

Aww... after the second "riya"?

user62015

I am not sure yet.

After 1:40?

Araucaria

@DamkerngT. @user62015 What you'll have to listen for there isn't exactly an 'n'. It's like a vowel with a nasally kind of metally sound.

Damkerng T.

Yes!

user62015

12:30

Let me try again.

Araucaria

So when she makes that vowel the air's coming out of her nose instead of her mouth ... :)

user62015

Yes! @Araucaria @DamkerngT.

Damkerng T.

@Araucaria For me, the technicality doesn't matter at this point. What's really matter is the listener has to know there is something there. :-)

@user62015 Ah, you got it, yes?

user62015

Her nose comes out.

Araucaria

Exactly so! :)

user62015

12:32

ahahhaa

Araucaria

It's exciting when you hear new things like that isn't it!

user62015

Yes. it's.

Damkerng T.

@Araucaria I remember it was so exciting!

user62015

So what is next?

Damkerng T.

"How can I miss all those sounds all these years?", I said to myself something like that.

@user62015 Do it some more. :-)

Mohammad

12:34

Hi Guys

Araucaria

@DamkerngT. I'm still hearing new things about English all the time!

TGMCians

Hi @Mohammad

Araucaria

@Mohammad, @TGMCians Hi folks

Damkerng T.

@user62015 Basically, the process I used was "listen-and-transcribe, check it against the lyrics, listen again until I can hear the right sound".

Mohammad

I am filling a job application and I found this field "Any Hand Cap" but I do not understand what does it mean?

Damkerng T.

12:35

Hi @Mohammad @TGMCians!

Mohammad

Hi All

user62015

I will do it! @DamkerngT.

Damkerng T.

@user62015 Yay!

user62015

So I will spend 30 mins on this each day.

Araucaria

@Mohammad It's asking whether you have a disability. Like, for example, do you use a wheelchair, or are you blind ...

Damkerng T.

12:36

@user62015 Good! I was about to suggest that same amount of time per day. :D

user62015

I could judge that!

Mohammad

@Araucaria Thanks a lot, I got it

user62015

Hahahaha

Damkerng T.

@user62015 Yay!

user62015

So then when should I contact you?

Araucaria

12:37

@Mohammad Good luck with the application!

Damkerng T.

@user62015 Tomorrow or the day after that.

Mohammad

Thanks

user62015

Sounds great.

Thanks. @DamkerngT. I am leaving now.

See you soon. Have a great time.

Damkerng T.

You're welcome! See you soon.

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