Hi everyone! @gerrit, @StrongBad, @CharlieBrumbaugh, @ab2, @anderas, @WedaPashi, @Willeke, @Liam, @Ricketyship, @RoryAlsop. Wow, it's been a busy few days in here! I didn't realize.

Hello.

How are you? Have you been doing any traveling lately?

It's cool that you're a vegetarian!

I was with my wife in the southwest USA for a little over 3 weeks, passed through Mojave National Preserve and visited Valley of Fire State Park, Grand Canyon-Parashant National Monument, Navajo National Monument, Monument Valley, Bears Ears National Monument, Natural Bridges National Monument, Grand Gulch, and Grand Canyon National Park, among some other places.

@Charlie, I'm glad you've started a new meta post about the shopping problem. It's a major frustration, partly because the close reason doesn't separate "price" recommendation from "shopping" recommendation, and I think those are different things. There are a lot of SE Network posts, and blogs, about this issue, and I'm going to suggest on the post that we look at those.

@gerrit That trip sounds awesome!

Not to get political...... Does it trouble you that so much land in those areas are getting de-regulated? It doesn't bode well for the future of some of the animals.

Bears Ears National Monument was declared by Obama and then made smaller by Trump a year later... but to be honest, I think it's purely symbolical. There's no economic activity likely to happen in the removed part that's permitted now but not permitted before

Nobody lives there and there's nothing to take economically.

as far as the Grand Gulch / Cedar Mesa is concerned.

If there was anything that bothers me, then it is the poverty among Native Americans living in the Navajo Nation. A lot of people standing along the road with tables or pick-up trucks selling handmade jewelry. Even if I was interested in buying some, I wouldn't stop 50 times...

@gerrit That's really sad about the Navajos.

It's probably worse on reservations that aren't near tourist areas.

The tourists at Monument Valley must be a reasonably steady source of income for the people on the reservation, at least.

That makes sense. Tourists do provide income.

Although it's rather small, there's a single 2-hour hiking trail at Monument Valley and a scenic drive, so I suspect most people stay just for the day or perhaps at most one night, but not longer.

Money in doesn’t solve the problems though there are reservations with casinos for example

True, the problem is not only economical.

Which have their own problems

But the natural environment and the public management thereof is a lot better in the USA than in most European countries.

I think Native Americans are very important.

It's kind of like the way I feel about animals in the wild. They were here before us, and should be respected.

I wonder if the latest deleted answer here outdoors.stackexchange.com/q/4066/8794 was real?

In the Cedar Mesa area, there are impressive Native American Pre-Columbian remains. Ruins, dwellings, pictographs, and petroglyphs.

@CharlieBrumbaugh It may be

@CharlieBrumbaugh, I think so too, though I don't have any experience in that area!

I think it was a friend of my parents, who went on a mountaineering expedition in the Himalaya or Andes. There was a winter storm on the high mountains during the night, and in the morning his mate has disappeared, presumably walked the wrong way when peeing in the night. Or it was something I read.

@gerrit Do you visit a lot of places with interesting archeological finds?

I just wouldn’t open my phone and ask someone on the internet :)

Have you guys seen the pictures of the geyser eruptions over these last few days at Yellowstone?

No

@Sue No. I've only seen it in Cedar Mesa / Grand Gulch, although I'm told there are ruins in the Grand Canyon area too.

There was a raccoon today that made it to the 13th floor of a building

@CharlieBrumbaugh If something terrible happened to that raccoon, I don't want to know...............

@gerrit I've heard that, although I haven't been there.

i think the raccoon was okay

@CharlieBrumbaugh Good! We had a dog once that went missing for two days. Finally we got a phone call from a construction company that was building a ten story building down the street. Our poor sweetie had climbed the scaffolding to the top on a Friday but was scared to come down, so he stayed there until Monday when a construction worker found him!

As you can imagine, we were hugely relieved!

A cat came into a colleague's garden and home and gave no indication of any desire to leave, so he fed it, after about a week he found out the cat was missing from a house 500 metre away, so he returned it there. One wonders. To me it reminds of the classic story of teenagers running away from home.

@Sue Sounds like a happy ending. Was the dog in good health?

@gerrit Yup, thanks God. He was scared to go outside for a few days, but he settled down.

Of course, I slept by his side until he stopped shaking!

We had a different dog, Golden Retriever, who used to get out and "retrieve" things.

He brought home a half barbequed chicken off someone's grill.

And he wandered into a local house with the door open and took a hunk of cheese and brought it home.

I also heard a story of some cat or dog (not sure) who mysteriously managed to get from Belgium to Scotland by itself, despite there being a sea in-between. Not sure what the story was exactly.

Mom and Dad did a lot of apologizing for him!

Better than hunks of deer hide

@gerrit Was he able to get back?

@CharlieBrumbaugh Ha, ha!

I don't remember the details of the story. It may have been that the human caretakers (I so dislike the word owners in this context) relocated, or something like that.

@gerrit, I love that about owners! That's so cool! Caretakers is much more accurate! Speaking of animals, my 19 pound cat is reminding me his dinner was due an hour ago, so I have to run for now. It's nice to find people chatting.

It's interesting to me how our site combines people who love animals with people who need to find as many ways to kill them as possible....

@ab2, Why did you delete your answer on that meta post? You don't owe me an explanation, I was just curious. I liked it!

Off I go for now..... take care everyone!

take care Sue

always nice chatting with you

I must go to bed

bye

@gerrit Thanks! I like chatting with you too. I wish you and your family a good night's rest....

!!needExcuse

@Charlie Brumbaugh It must be a race condition

!!pingable

Sue,Charlie Brumbaugh,Ricketyship,Rory Alsop,imsodin,WedaPashi,anderas,Kevin,Jonathan Landrum,Willeke,TestingChatbot,StrongBad,ab2,gerrit

!!needExcuse

@TestingChatbot I'm sure that was written by a freelancer

!!alive

Sue,Charlie Brumbaugh,Ricketyship,Rory Alsop,imsodin,WedaPashi,anderas,Kevin,Jonathan Landrum,Willeke,TestingChatbot,StrongBad,ab2,gerrit

!!alive

Hello World

!!pingable

Sue,Charlie Brumbaugh,Ricketyship,Rory Alsop,imsodin,WedaPashi,anderas,Kevin,Jonathan Landrum,Willeke,TestingChatbot,StrongBad,ab2,gerrit

!!needExcuse

@TestingChatbot It must be a unicode issue

!!needExcuse

@TestingChatbot Someone must have changed my code

!!alive

Hello World

!!pingable

Sue,Charlie Brumbaugh,Ricketyship,Rory Alsop,imsodin,WedaPashi,anderas,Kevin,Jonathan Landrum,Willeke,TestingChatbot,StrongBad,ab2,gerrit

I have the basic Chatbot working, the code is here github.com/CharlieBrumbaugh/GreatOutdoorsChat

There are 3 commands !!alive (see if its running) !!pingable (lists every user who is pingable) !!needExcuse ( randomly returns an excuse pulled from programmingexcuses.com)

Yes to come, report spam over to Charcoal from here

Meant to say yet

@CharlieBrumbaugh, I just want to drop a note, although there's no need to rush to answer it, as I just came in to drop off a few notes to people, and then I don't think I'll be doing any more chatting tonight. Was this supposed to ping me? If so, it didn't. Can you teach a layman how to use that github thing? Obviously I don't have a github account, but I don't know if that matters. Thanks!

@ab2, I'm glad you liked the bird question. I have to tighten it up and reformat to make it easier to read. Once I got started, I just couldn't stop. I have a beautiful sparrow fledgling in the yard (the first successful one in all four years we've lived here) and his dad is still feeding him. I keep trying to get a picture but don't have it. Hubby does a better job with these things, so hopefully he can get one.

I just keep learning and learning. In fact, one of the reasons people were told that mother birds would reject babies if we touched them was to encourage us to leave them alone and let them do their thing. Many songbirds don't even have a sense of smell, so the fear that our scent will make the mother reject it is a myth.

Next question how far can a skunk spray?

@Sue No it's just supposed to list everyone who can be pinged, in case you want to wish everybody a Happy Star Wars Day or something. You don' t need Github to use it, you just send the commands into boxes like this,

!!alive

Hello World

!!needExcuse

@Charlie Brumbaugh That's the fault of the UI designer

!!pingable

Sue,Charlie Brumbaugh,Ricketyship,Rory Alsop,imsodin,WedaPashi,anderas,Kevin,Jonathan Landrum,Willeke,TestingChatbot,StrongBad,ab2,gerrit

!!pingable

Y u no respond to me botty -.-

Today I came across a query with 11 sub queries!!!

@WedaPashi where were you hiking?

Hi @Ricketyship

wikimapia.org/…

This is where I was.

@Rory at his best :D

US, Canada, Mexico will host FIFA World Cup 2026.

@WedaPashi Is there a trail there? From where to where did you hike in that area?

@WedaPashi Hahaha good one @RoryAlsop :D

@Ricketyship: There used to be a trail, now for over a decade that trail is not used, as a village in the vicinity was shifted down the mountain. So all we have is lush green forest and a broken train which is still pretty clear to walk on in some of the sections. I started off from a village (in southern section of the map that I shared) called Kitawade.

Kitawade to?

And walked till Patgaon dam and then to Siddha's mountain, then to Rangna fort.

5 days of solo trek, amazing forest, beautiful place. Villages where I stayed (Preferred staying in schools), people are very helpful.

Note: The loop on the blue trail is NOT the one in the question that I asked yesterday, its lost in the resolution somewhere.

The image above is a hand-drawn from the map

nice :) i remember doing that in Arunachal pradesh

we hiked from village to village for 5 days. Although there a village meant 5-10 families in total.

@Ricketyship: I want to backpack/trek in N-E India before its totally commercialised by wanna-be trekking clubs.

To be honest, it's very less visited now. The touristy places are the ones which are frequented now.

Trekking is still not so big there.

Thats encouraging.

This might technically not be spam outdoors.stackexchange.com/a/19671/8794 but lets delete regardless

ANd this one outdoors.stackexchange.com/a/19670/8794

!!alive

Hello World

@WedaPashi thank you. I wanted to let them know but not be too serious about it

!!pingable

WHY DOES YOUR BOT NOT REPLY TO ME >.<

@Ricketyship Try it again

!!pingable

Good. I was about to rage quit

:P

!!needExcuse

@imsodin The dev that worked here for a week? Yeah, he wrote that

@imsodin why does IFSC suck so much when it comes to live streams of their own comps?

Because their secret mission is to animate all the couch-climbers to do more real climbing (you can always turn things positive...)

What was their most recent fuckup (can't say I wasn't watching due to much climbing, but I still wasn't watching :P )

The Vail worldcup was unwatchable

the stream was cutting and skipping. It was like it was a timelapse of climbing

I stopped watching the semis as it became too painful to watch.

ah that one again. that was normal in the "old" days, you could be happy if there was a stream at all. I thought they got that sorted now

Lol. Tokyo one was managed by NHK (the national broadcaster of Japan), the China ones where managed by the chinese state tv

So the stream was immaculate. Then, the IFSC stream in US

The commentator kept cribbing during Japanese and Chinese worldcups that he couldn't get the replays he wanted.

!!needExcuse

@WedaPashi That's a data issue

@CharlieBrumbaugh: What does this @TestingChatbot do?

@WedaPashi So far it will send a random excuse or list everybody who you can ping in the room

@CharlieBrumbaugh: That I saw. Good going :-)

hi guys

does anyone have any experience or knowledge about PEGA systems?

@Linkx_lair Are you sure your in the right place?

oh- not sure... lol

sorry

Lets start with what are PEGA systems :D

@Linkx_lair We had a question about ticks and mosquitoes and someone answered they should try automated testing :)

@Linkx_lair Life is hard

@Sue To reply as to why I deleted my A to the Shopping Q: I thought StrongBad had a better A and that mine was too cutsey.

what does cutsey mean?

Attempt to ride current news cycle outdoors.stackexchange.com/questions/19672/…

@Ricketyship I think this definition gets close trying very hard or too hard to be appealing in the case of the answer not in a beautiful way but in a I want people to like me way.

!!alive

Hello World

Hi bot.

@Willeke Hi

!!pingable

Charlie Brumbaugh,Kevin,Ricketyship,Sue,Jonathan Landrum,Willeke,TestingChatbot,StrongBad,ab2,Rory Alsop,WedaPashi,gerrit,imsodin,Linkx_lair

Thanks Bot.

Another person I know just got a collapsible kayak. I am starting to get jealous.

@StrongBad, my brother buys a kayak or canoe almost every autumn for very little, stores it over winter and uses it the next spring and summer, he has several in different places in Europe (with friends) and he has sold on several at the start of summer when the bring in a lot of money.

I do not think he has a collapsible kayak yet, though.

@Willeke I have been thinking about one of these: orukayak.com I could bring it on the subway/bus/taxi for local flat water paddles. No someone who accidentally took it down class 3+ water.

@StrongBad, I want one as well. (Except that I do not paddle much, even less proper kayaking.) No problem with white water here.

I could transport it by bike, even my recumbent with very little storage space.

@Willeke but you would need a foldable bike to be able to take the bike with you on the kayak ;)

I have one, but I think I would do round trips with the kayak. (I have seen the 'how to take your bike in your boat' Q's)

To tell truth, my current ride can be split in two, so would fit in most kayaks, as long as I install a brake cable that can be divided.

We can't grow the site by closing on topic questions.

I feel all stack exchange sites I go close too many questions, certainly the ones that are slightly off topic should stay.

And all those on topic.

Or by arguing in the comments over whether they are on topic or not

In GTO it is not so much a problem but on travel almost every interesting question gets closed and re-opened.

A few close votes are standard.

Bwahahahahaha

@StrongBad, I had a good look at those kayaks and have decided that I will need to kayak a lot before I spend about €1000 for a foldable one. Till now I really have not done enough to justify even a spending of €100.

@Willeke, @CharlieBrumbaugh, @RoryAlsop, @StrongBad, It looks like you might all be here so I wanted to say hi. Of course, your avatars might just be hanging around, in which case, my "hi" will be for whenever you do actually come in!

Hi @Sue!

Hi @Sue, I am still here, but about to go to bed.

And hi everyone else too

@ab2 Oh. I saw it as friendly and down to earth, and cute in a good way!

Hi/Bye Rory.

@Willeke Thanks for saying hi. Sleep well!

Thanks. Have a good afternoon/evening.

@RoryAlsop Did you at any time think the "how many miles" question, outdoors.stackexchange.com/questions/19606/…, was off-topic as opinion-based?

Just curious, because it looked it to me.

Even the OP knew there were too many variables.

BTW, I'm really glad everyone stood up for Graham. I didn't see the comments, but I think the answer's really important!

On another subject... Do you or anyone know why we lost mattnz?

@Sue hey, lots of variables doesn't make it opinion based. It just makes finding the answer difficult.

@StrongBad Actually, your answer was was not based solely on opinion, so I probably should have looked more closely at it.

I think that's part of my whole misunderstanding of opinion based, but that's a big can of worms at a site like this.

I actually have a similar question I've been wanting to ask, but I think it might be opinion based, because it would actually be looking for opinions!

@Sue but it is only average for a sub group of hikers on a particular trail going in a particular direction. Making inferences about other groups, trails or directions is probably dangerous.

@StrongBad Are you saying you think something in your answer might have been dangerous?

Because it wouldn't necessarily apply to OP's specific situation?

I do like that people told OP that the goal of weeks was unrealistic, even if that isn't what they wanted to hear.

Nobody bothers to review on meta so here is a VLQ or Link only answer, that both should instead be a comment and has a wrong premise outdoors.meta.stackexchange.com/a/1236/8794

@CharlieBrumbaugh will go see............

By the way, I just checked meta review queues an hour or so ago.

I can't remember the last time I saw one!!

Mods typically get to meta queues on smaller sites faster than reviewers...

@RoryAlsop, that makes sense of course. Do you think that should be a comment?

@Sue not in a life or death situation. If I pulled data (which may or may not exist in an easily digestible form) for the CDT people probably hit their max mileage very quickly since the desert makes you go fast and then you hit mountains. Using that model to plan resupplies on the AT would be a bad idea.

@CharlieBrumbaugh 100% agree

@RoryAlsop So are you turning that into a comment? By the way, if we think something should be a comment, is coming here and pinging you, or flagging the post, the better idea?

Sometimes I see people asking users to delete and write it as a comment instead, but that doesn't seem too successful to me.

With new folks, suggesting they sort it may help. With people who have been here a long time and should know better - a flag is quickest

@RoryAlsop Good to know. Thanks!

Flags are easier to see when I'm traveling, as I am now. Away from home and my decent computer

as a mod on a small site, I hate that meta flags don't show up with the main site flags.

Yeah - that annoys me too

Don't know if there is a workaround

Other than just to open every site

@StrongBad, I just checked to see where you were a mod, and I didn't even know we had that site!

@RoryAlsop, where are you traveling??

@Sue which site. I am a mod at academia and expats.

@StrongBad Oh, expats.

@RoryAlsop that must take you a while. Are you a mod on 7 sites now?

I've been to academia before.

It's an interesting site.

Expats is a cool site, but we have a focus issue in that we want to be more than just visas but trying to answer all questions about life in every possible country does not work.

I feel like I am going to regret the whole shopping meta thing

@RoryAlsop, I didn't realize you were a musician, and I've never really looked at that site either. I started classical at age 4 and have used music to soothe many of my problems in life!

@StrongBad I've heard that Travel has the same issue with too many visa questions. @gerrit I think would know.

@RoryAlsop, I've also played lots of other instruments. Was a keyboard and bass player in my many years of folk music gigs. I used to sing too. I've given up a lot since losing most of my hearing, but playing is still fun!

@RoryAlsop and @StrongBad, especially as mods, do you find it interesting that sites almost always struggle with the same things? I spend a lot of time reading metas, and notice it a lot.

It's probably not surprising.

@TestingChatbot Are you a person to whom I am speaking?!

@Sue I think there is a fair amount of variability between the hard and soft sites. Types of opinion based questions they get on SO is very different from opinion based question on sites like expats, academia and TGO.

@StrongBad That's interesting. I'll have to spend more time looking around. I've never even looked at SO Meta. The only place I ever hang out is Gardening and our meta's not active at all.

@StrongBad, which is your favorite site to mod?

@RoryAlsop, I wonder the same about you.

@Sue 01001110 01101111

@TestingChatbot ha, ha! My son is a computer engineer and he grew up in the days of zeros and ones. I used to call him binary brain!

@TestingChatbot, at least the question is getting good views. I think you should keep pressing on. I want to figure out how to encourage more people to participate in meta. "Decisions" seem to be made by too small of a group.

@Sue mods can feature meta posts so they show up on the side bar. It is also possible to add the meta question feed to the chat room.

@StrongBad I knew about the featured meta posts, but had no idea they could feed to the chat room. How does that work?

It would be interesting to see a meta HNQ list!

@Sue what do you see at: chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/info/2291/the-base-camp?tab=feeds

@StrongBad Our usual view of the room, etc., but underneath it says there are no feeds. There's also a menu across the top I've never paid any attention to, about conversations, events, etc. It's fun to know how many starred messages we have!

So the feed is basically when every time a question gets posted in meta it shows up here?

Just like there are feeds where every time a question gets posted on the main site it shows up here?

@Sue there are some odd mod bugs (like I can add feeds to this room even though I am not a mod here). i have a box where I can add a feed.

I've seen that feature elsewhere.

@StrongBad Probably because you're a mod elsewhere, so you're a trusted mod?

@RoryAlsop, it that the case?

@Sue yes chat is moderated by all.

I have never seen a feed for all questions on a main site, but you could do that.

I think I've seen it at Lifehacks, a long time ago.

It was pretty much the only activity in the room.

Most people add feeds for particular tags of other sites. for example maybe there is a tag at gardening of interest to TGO.

We had feeds of meta posts to chat, but users found them irratating

Probably worth starting a meta question and getting a list of feeds that people want (if any).

@TestingChatbot says the chat bot

bwahahahaha

@StrongBad I agree. I think you should do it. I just looked at Lifehacks and they seem to be feeding their meta questions in.

The Junk Drawer has two feeds... chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/info/19330/…

'I find those feeds highly irratating

@TestingChatbot I wonder if there is a user script that can block them.

@StrongBad Oh, I didn't realize that. I think it's a good idea to see if there are at least a couple of different types of feeds we might want, with meta probably being most important.

I think some people, like @CharlieBrumbaugh, often feed meta questions here individually.

It would be great to just have them come in.

At least, as you said, give the community the opportunity to offer opinions. I think most average users, like me, have no idea that feeds are an option.

@Sue isn't @TestingChatbot really @CharlieBrumbaugh who has said he does not like the feeds.?

@StrongBad Yup, but @CharlieBrumbaugh, don't you sometimes post them in here anyway?

Or is it only when you think some action should be taken?

I sincerely want to create anything that will increase communication.

@StrongBad. Thanks for putting that up. The downvote is probably obvious :) as is the upvote :). One pro for me is that meta comment threads often don't "ping" each other, so we don't see the extent of who's saying what to whom.

A lot of times I'll check on a post and find long conversations like that, including responses to me that I didn't know were there.

@Sue I don't really care about votes (up or down) except to the extent that sometimes they confuse the discussion. In this case I am pretty sure a down vote means I don't want any feeds.

@StrongBad, feeding tags into here can be interesting too. I agree about the problem ones, but also about the confusing ones. For instance, there's a recent meta post about the "training" tag as it relates to "fitness". If we fed the training tags into here for a little while, it could show whether or not the pattern is such that the definition should be changed or a new tag should be added.

I would think @CharlieBrumbaugh might like something like that, especially because tags are a big thing around here.

I don't want to add a bunch of feeds, but exploring the options is interesting.

@CharlieBrumbaugh I added an answer I think you might like to the feeds question.

Would you be willing to post that question in here, so our "usuals" can see it?

@Sue you can do it just as easily as I can.

I forget how to onebox!!

I think it's just pasting the url without anything else. Is that right?

@Sue just paste the url on a single line with nothing else.

Hey, it worked!

@StrongBad, do you have feeds at any of the chat rooms at the sites you mod?

@sue chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/info/2496/…

A lot of sites also have private mod only chat rooms. Feeds there are really helpful for keeping track of problem users and questions.

@StrongBad Ah, that's interesting.

I'm working on an answer to that post, but I have to eat first, and do some thinking. I'd be curious to know how many of our "usuals" see that post in here first or on meta.

In fact, I think I'll put it out there, although some of our regulars are sleeping!

@ab2, @Ricketyship, @Willeke, @WedaPashi, @imsodin. There's a new meta post about whether or not we want feeds coming into this room. @StrongBad wrote it. We posted it in here too. I'm curious where you saw it first. Do you usually drop into chat first or meta first? I can't ping you @Aravona, because you haven't been here in over a week, but I'd be interested to see what you think. I'd love to see answers on that post, but what I'm really asking is whether you saw it there or here first!

By the way, if I think we should have them come here, which I'm on the fence a little bit, my opinion would be trying it as a temporary thing, especially while meta is so active.

@Sue Unless I am pinged on Chat, I usually go to TGO first, then TGO Meta, then Base Camp.