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10:02 PM
ugh. Metaprogramming in C# is shit... for all the facilities it has, there is no mind ever paid to the trashy trashy code you have to write. Makes me long for macros or proper higher kinded polymorphism...
Can T4 solve your problem?
in some languages some features are maid to be ugly so people wouldn't like writing them...
ugh yeah Jimmy.
But you can do some extremely dirty dirty stuff in it though
Its kind of interesting seeing how clojure deals with metaprogramming and the jvm.
Just finished replacing a goddamn nested array used in a vb.net app we have here with an array of structs
(The app is old and terrible)
... and there's likely a question ban.
He's got a Game Dev account...
10:23 PM
@WorldEngineer Are dead parents some sort of mythical archetype? Or do I need to read more about Joseph Campbell?
@RobertHarvey Star Wars :)
basic idea is that you have a hero that goes on a journey, often with the whole burned village thing
Link from the avation.SE site: cessna150-152.com/transatlantic.htm
Its about taking a Cessna across the atlantic.
> Instead, using the general VHF frequency of 131.8, he managed to use a message relay system via passing airliners for the entire trip to the Azores - 1350 nautical miles. Although Leon could talk to air traffic controllers in Gander, New York and Santa Maria, the biggest problem was the disbelief from the airliners when they continually asked for his aircraft type.
do you fly?
must be a tweaked Cessna, don't think a standard flies more than 1000 km on a tank
10:28 PM
@JohanLarsson Nope... but I keep seeing the avation in the hot links.
> Pointe Noire was reached after a sea crossing of 14 hours and 20 minutes. ATC had no warning of his arrival, as Abidjan hadn't transmitted his flight plan. The tower controller couldn't believe a Cessna 150 had flown so far and according to Leon, "He insisted that I come to the tower immediately, as he had never seen an insane man before!"
a good tailwind will boost a lot
That's a 66 gallon additional tank.
There's also this image for how do you get a 717 to Hawaii.
10:29 PM
@MichaelT How much weight does that add? I'm guessing 7 pounds per gallon of additional fuel, plus the tank itself.
there's a question about there on aviation...
Q: How do airliners get from the factory to the client if the aircraft does not have the required range

Fabrizio MazzoniToday I flew with an Embraer 190 of Kenya Airways. Checking in the tech specs this aircraft has a range of roughly 2900 km. Considering it is built in Brasil, I was wondering how do they deliver it to Africa since they would have to cross the Atlantic Ocean which I suppose is more than 2900 kms o...

> The Cessna's all up weight with the extra tank was 2,050 lbs. This was 500 lbs. over gross. The FAA had approved the increase of 30% over book weight. In spite of this, the night takeoff was an anticlimax. The little 150 lifted off in 400 meters and her climb performance was the same as would be expected on a highveld summer afternoon.
Night takeoff. Because colder air is denser.
> The rest of the flight was completed without incident, arriving in Gaborone on Saturday 27th August after covering 9,700 nautical miles of which 7,000 had been over the ocean. The time taken had been 107 hours and Leon had spent almost as much on bribes in Africa as the entire cost of fuel for the trip.
10:37 PM
Hmm, hard question over in python
Q: Is a WeakValueDictionary appropriate for a pubsub manager?

StickI find I learn best when I have to start from step 0, and since pubsub has not been an intuitive process for me to grok, I decided to make my life difficult and build a pubsub library for Python. I've managed to keep the basics of it pretty light and everything is just a subclass of regular cont...

@Zeroth Where's Martijn Pieters when you need him?
He'll show up sooner or later... or he might already be writing an epic answer.
@AlainJacometForte Welcome to the Whiteboard. Home of various things including career advice.
That said, he's also a UK'er and its middle of the night there...
Thanks @WorldEngineer
10:52 PM
@MichaelT true but who knows
@WorldEngineer His python sense might be tingling...
@MichaelT Were that I did more OO in python
(and context for our newest visitor)
Q: Question about levelling skills as a software developer

Alain Jacomet ForteI want to ask a question about the resources available for a self-taught developer to level skills and conceptual understanding with a professional CS undergraduate curriculum. Is this a suitable question for this site?

I've been a web developer for ~15 years. Currently working with Node.js
and Angular
But sometimes I bump into concepts that need an understanding of computer science, like the history and reason for Dependency Injection, Memory handling, the concept of Scope, among many other things
Or software testing as a generalized topic
10:55 PM
@AlainJacometForte not to mention the Chompsky category's homomorphisms
Not to mention.
I mean it.
So I don't know where to look in order to level up
Don't mention them.
I'm watching you.
@AlainJacometForte we're safe as he doesn't mention the 'm' word... (and I'm joking)
10:57 PM
I've been thinking in taking the Udacity courses, which seem very CS-oriented.
You've got several bits there... some of which are computer science, others are software engineering.
@AlainJacometForte oh, oh, no I know just what you should read if you want some more CS fundamentals
(this looks intreaguging - at least a publishing house I've seen before: link.springer.com/… )
Just read that, you'll be set.
If that doesn't seem to cover enough for you, then I'd suggest reading Concepts, Techniques, and Models of Computer Programming, just whiz through that and you'll be good.
Nice. Thanks
10:59 PM
I'm helping.
Don't thank him until after you understand the 'm' word.
@AlainJacometForte You might consider the "Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs"
there's a JS version
or "Think like a Computer Scientist"
@MichaelT I thought is was the T word?
@WorldEngineer I prefer the much denser CS book "Think like a Nascar Driver"
I wasn't sure if "Computer Science" was the topic I should be focusing on. You guys seem to confirm it.
11:00 PM
Software testing is something that is more Software Engineering: sebokwiki.org/wiki/…
I was in doubt of whether I should look into Software Engineering as a topic
@AlainJacometForte I'm making jest; it's 5pm here. Do ignore me unless I'm giving actual advice. I hope you can tell the difference, but even I can't always...
The software engineering isn't things you'll find in a college class easily.
@AlainJacometForte all seriousness, what makes you think you need to study CS more closely? What do you look to gain?
@MichaelT You'll find grad level classes in it
11:03 PM
Or the O word(opt-i-mize)
And don't let the "engineering" part scare you... they just put there to make the title longer.
@JimmyHoffa I'm hoping it will make me a better programmer. Give me knowledge to construct better algorithms.
Ahh... the fundamentals... data structures and algorithms then.
@AlainJacometForte CS stuff is good for giving you a better concept of algorithms, that's true. But if you've been a programmer for 15 years there's likely something more specific you're feeling you need to bolster
I'm hoping to get a deeper understanding of things, and also avoid bumping into unknown Words so often
11:04 PM
don't just memorize them to reproduce them
@AlainJacometForte get something like Cormen's algorithms book and code your through it
@AlainJacometForte don't worry about terminology of deeper understanding of "things" broadly - if you want to grow your knowledge it's best to have a specific focus, at least to start
THat's the one
there will always be unknown words thought up by business people to generate buzz
11:05 PM
Well, programming is easy(largely). Its the construction of maintainable, readable, high-quality software that fits users needs that's hard
@ratchetfreak Or just made up to justify their paycheck
and even harder to do it on schedule, and under-budget.
The Algorithm Design Manual is a free online PDF that is a very high quality book as well, much cheaper than the Cormen book which is seen as the standardbearer
I mean a good/decent programmer thinks it up and a ignorant marketer dude throws it around like singles in a stripclub...
11:06 PM
Take this phrase for example: "Testability story: unit-testing, end-to-end testing, mocks, test harnesses."
@AlainJacometForte have a read here granted it's not about the exact topic you refer to, but at the end he goes over a broad section of CS concepts and what to read and how to approach studying them which can be helpful if you're not sure where to start with learning all the topics
I'm familiar with TDD, but those are concepts that relate to testing as a general topic
@AlainJacometForte That is decidedly not related to CS
unit testing and end to end testing are two types of tests... mocks and test harnesses are tools for doing the tests.
CS studies will not prepare you for thinking about testability, or even touch on the topic really.
11:07 PM
honestly I just look for the wikipedia article when I see something I don't understand
@ratchetfreak we reference learners are lucky. Most are unable to pick up concepts correctly from references alone rather requiring more step-by-step tutorial style format to their information for ingestion.
Perhaps I should look into the particular areas rather than seek a generalized one? (i.e. Software Testing)
unit test is on the order of "make sure that the add(a,b) function returns a+b" while an end to end test is "we are going to test logging in through submitting an order and making sure the back end picks it up right and sends it to the warehouse..."
hell I got a shortcut in my browser, I just need to type wpen <word> and 9 times out of 10 I'm in the correct place
A: C# - Unit test, Mock?

Jimmy HoffaYou need to learn to write unit tests on your own. Start off on the right foot with good comprehension of terminology that many people make mistakes regarding: Unit test: Testing a single unit of code, very small atomic test. Integration test: Testing multiple units of code integrated together,...

11:10 PM
(an end to end test I did with a credit card application at one point was "enter this data in for the credit card application, verify that it went through capital one's processing, was approved, and then use the credit card number they generated at a register on the test network")
Well, I am aware that the answers are online, which is the great thing about this. I was just hoping I could once and for all get all the juicy concepts instead of always having to stop and Google things
should have closed as too broad
If you want to get down to the very basics, shop.oreilly.com/product/0636920025481.do is an interesting book.
@MichaelT that's indeed the bone of it
Alright, I'll look into all the links you guys provided
Thanks !
One thing you might want to consider... (no, I am not paid by oriely or get any kickbacks) is the Safari Books Online. safaribooksonline.com
11:13 PM
You get access to a LOT of books and videos... including many of the ones that I linked earlier.
Oh, I didn't know it. Looks good. Thank you
One of the things I am frustrated with where I live is the lack of good tech books in the book store... and then when you do get the good tech books on the framework you're using... its out of date in 6 months.
Thus, safari books gives you access to all of them, and keeps you up to date with the latest editions.
Not all the publishers, but there's a good number of them in there.
and to get a good book written and published takes about that long...
11:16 PM
Oh! On unit testing..
Oh, great!
oneboxed amazon needs to be smaller...
(easy enough to edit after the fact)
But you'll also find things like Clean Code on Safari Books...
11:19 PM
You can get some very up to date books - especially from Oriely itself: my.safaribooksonline.com/book/programming/javascript/…
(that one was just published the other day - already on there)
@MichaelT There's something I like about reading a paper book, though
I can't get used to reading a 100+ page document in the computer
go to a print shop and kill some trees then :)
@AlainJacometForte absoulately... but I glare at the 3x copies of ios 2 - ios 4 documentation I have sitting around, now completely useless.
Yeah, I do feel bad about trees
But, I don't have that many books
11:21 PM
Note that when I do use Safari Books, its typically with the ipad app next to the computer... its bookish.
Perhaps Kindle is the answer
if you do print one out try to get a timeless one that doesn't focus on the buzzword du jour
There's no way to save this conversation right ?
@AlainJacometForte it's autosaved
that's how most of these things end up as
11:24 PM
there's a room transcript
oh that way...
There's also the bookmark.
yeah there is a transcript
Ah there it is, thanks
@AlainJacometForte bookmark this link
31 mins ago, by Alain Jacomet Forte
I've been a web developer for ~15 years. Currently working with Node.js
11:25 PM
with permalinks to individual chat messages

On CS books and topics

32 mins ago, 31 minutes total – 103 messages, 6 users, 2 stars

Bookmarked 8 secs ago by MichaelT

There we go
Alright, I'm off. Thanks for the help.
Btw, anyone got a too broad close vote for programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/236057/… ?
no prob
11:26 PM
@AlainJacometForte stop by any time.
(fortunately, of the standard close voters, only I'm out of the close voteability on that for being on the first round... so its still got a good chance)
That said, the OP of the question will likely argue about the close vote.
(though I'd love to toss a 'migrate to information security flag on there'... but I don't think they'd appreciate it)
I indeed don't think it is appropriate there
@ratchetfreak Its not exactly appropriate anywhere.
11:30 PM
and the answer would boil down to "company policy, ask IT"
It boils do to "you're crazy if you're worried about Microsoft stealing your code from your computer"
I'd be more worried about google...
> Would you use a third party anti-virus or would you fear they could steal your code?
... You're worried about norton stealing your code too?
you don't know what they have been doing all these years between all those viruses...
11:34 PM
@ratchetfreak E-Bola
many of those "attacks" depend on soo many things going right that it is ridiculous...
Its more a "set up some malware to communicate via audio microphone / speaker to jump the airgap"
I could have sworn there was some academics working on chip vibrations or something
maybe that was it
11:37 PM
@WorldEngineer gizmodo.com/…
Was that it?
that would depend on speaker and mike response and
@MichaelT That was the one
@ratchetfreak They're talking about 20 bps - its not that fast (or likely noticable)
Requires physical access to the machine.
If an attacker has that, you have bigger problems than your computer humming.
11:40 PM
unless they also need it fast and breaking it open take a lot of time...
Its more a "its interesting how much data leaks out of a regular computer"
Don't know if anyone finds this interesting or not, but in my current application, I use static to punch a hole between several data pipelines so that they can share some data. Don't know if this makes me a bad person or not.
The trick is reversible gates! Because they are reversible there is no information destruction that leaks out as heat or other.
In logic circuits, the Toffoli gate (also CCNOT gate), invented by Tommaso Toffoli, is a universal reversible logic gate, which means that any reversible circuit can be constructed from Toffoli gates. It is also known as the "controlled-controlled-not" gate, which describes its action. It has 3-bit inputs and outputs; if the first two bits are set, it inverts the third bit, otherwise all bits stay the same. Background A logic gate L is reversible if, for any output y, there is a unique input x such that applying L(x) = y. If a gate L is reversible, there is an inverse gate L′ wh...
but much of the timings break down when it is not the only thing the computer is doing
11:42 PM
The Fredkin gate (also CSWAP gate) is a computational circuit suitable for reversible computing, invented by Ed Fredkin. It is universal, which means that any logical or arithmetic operation can be constructed entirely of Fredkin gates. The Fredkin gate is the three-bit gate that swaps the last two bits if the first bit is 1. Definition The basic Fredkin gate is a controlled swap gate that maps three inputs (C, I1, I2) onto three outputs (C, O1, O2). The C input is mapped directly to the C output. If C = 0, no swap is performed; I1 maps to O1, and I2 maps to O2. Otherwise, the two outp...
(... @WorldEngineer I still think that question is either from a paranoid person, or we're being trolled)
@MichaelT both maybe
Kind of by definition, a crazy person isn't trolling...
(though I might be using too old school of a definition)
or a semi paranoid person asking a legit question (how can I secure confidential code in development) letting his imagination run wild during the writing of the question...
11:49 PM
Glancing at CS.SE, I'm going with 'student letting imagination run wild and trolling'
@MichaelT that's the vibe I get
Everything is so serious when you're in college... I mean, that the corporations are spying on everyone! Everyone I tell you! There's no privacy anymore! We have to take every measure we can to protect what privacy we do have and take it back from the government!
go offline
outside even
Get a typewriter....
Go off the grid. Like John Conner.
11:51 PM
there's some nice caves in the south of belgium that are open...
Complete with air conditioning.
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