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01:56
One more vote needed: C1; D1, D2, D3
For closure: C2, C3, C4
For deletion: D4, D5
 
1 hour later…
03:13
[This question] I don't know what more the OP could have done here. I'm thinking about Jyrki's post on context for contests, and it's not clear to me what can be added apart from what was. The source is the Moroccan Math Olympiad (maybe more details required), stuff like "test smaller cases" and "fix variables" doesn't work because computing $\sqrt{a},\sqrt{b}$ for non-square $a,b$ is trouble. All that could be said is what was algebraically attempted, and while there could have been...
... elaboration on this, this kind of reasoning makes the problem borderline, as it stands. I also find , given that the answers prove it to be wrong, that the addition of the attempt now is a bit artificial. I haven't taken any action on this question, but I don't know what to look for either.
03:45
 
2 hours later…
05:33
This question is duplicate of this question.
The question is although good, well-researched, but has been already asked 7 years ago.
 
1 hour later…
07:19
I found this new answer from the recent questions, and I think it is salvageable. Just posted here, maybe it needs improvement.
07:30
One more vote needed: D7
07:52
@Saad D3 is the $\frac{0}{0}$ - stuff. No idea why such posts survive so long on this site.
 
1 hour later…
09:02
@soupless No, I do not think there is anything salvageable from that answer. If you have a proper proof, then please put it up for discussion. If not, I don't think it is fair to claim that the vague handwaving has any substance to it.
 
2 hours later…
11:10
@user21820 I am sorry. I take it back.
12:13
@soupless Ok, no problem at all. Thank you for your response! =)
12:45
@TeresaLisbon Doublecheck completed ?
 
1 hour later…
13:58
@Peter @amWhy @Saad: I have a curious idea. Would you all be interested to know who are undelete-voting this nonsense and this PSQ? I am very interested, so if any of you are too we can undelete first just to see who it was before redeleting. What do you think? =)
@user21820 Done.
@Saad Oh so the first one was undelete-voted by Shaun and peterwhy. Not surprising. What about the second one? Would you mind if I do the undeletion?
@user21820 And the undeletion of the second post was initiated by one of the answerers.
Followed by the OP itself.
@Saad Oh? The asker can undelete-vote with 5rep?! I didn't know that!!
And somehow the reopening can be done before the undeleting??
This is really a badly designed system.
That's weird indeed. Maybe @XanderHenderson could help on some clarifications?
14:08
@user21820 I understand your curiousness, but I would consider that a misuse of the (un)deletion voting right. Just my 2¢.
@user21820 It had been reopened also by a user with gold badge. I have flagged the question as missing context.
@MartinR That's why I asked people here first, and was willing to use my own undelete-vote to perform the experiment. I don't know if it should be counted as a misuse, but surely it's less a misuse than the reopen/delete-voters of their rights (given the EOQS)?
If we didn't perform this experiment, it would just sit in the undelete queue for ever and ever until it gets quietly undeleted and reopened simultaneously (by who knows who) and we would never even realize it.
@NikhilKumarSingh Thanks, and I have flagged the answer for misuse of gold-badge.
@user21820 If you “follow” a question then you will be notified of an undeletion, I think.
@MartinR Oh, does that really work? I didn't know.
@user21820 Saad was one undeleter on the second post you refer to. Why??? Actually, on both posts, Saad voted to undelete, and on one, to redelete after undeleting.
14:19
@user21820 The author of a question can always vote to undelete it, compare meta.stackexchange.com/a/5222/196432: “If it was deleted by [...] multiple high-reputation users or the Community user: you can vote to undelete, but it will require more votes from high-reputation users or a moderator to undelete.”
@amWhy I was curious, too.
@user21820 Now you and Saad have essentially undeleted and set in motion the reopening, and now some of us cannot vote to close the reopened question. Please don't suggest such experiments again.
This time I did want to act proactively to once figure out these mysterious undeleters.
@amWhy Sorry, I was unaware of the possibility of reopening, and I won't do it again.
However, since I discovered the gold-badge-reopening behaviour through this (wrong) action, I have flagged the answerer.
@Saad The information is there, whether deleted or undeleted. And you turned into one of the mystery deleters, helping to open a question that should have remain deleted.
14:25
@MartinR I see, thanks.
@amWhy The cost of experiments, only once.
Who deleted what was already available without experimenting. There was no need, @user21820, and you could have found out everything you sought by examining review history: yes, you can review history even when the post is deleted.
@amWhy No, the timeline does not show who undelete-voted, until it is actually undeleted. That was what we were interested in.
With which question was this "experiment" done ?
32 mins ago, by user21820
@Peter @amWhy @Saad: I have a curious idea. Would you all be interested to know who are undelete-voting this nonsense and this PSQ? I am very interested, so if any of you are too we can undelete first just to see who it was before redeleting. What do you think? =)
14:37
@Peter Not yet. I'm busy at the moment(there is a guest in the house) so I will get back to you.
@Saad The PSQ has been deleted. Thanks @XanderHenderson!
For what it is worth, I am deeply uncomfortable with these experiments to unmask voters. The system is intentionally designed---for better or worse---to keep voters anonymous until a final decision has been made by the community.
I don't like the idea of voting against one's conscience in order to determine the identity of another user.
@XanderHenderson Hmm, so what do you propose to do with questions that are deliberately gold-badge-reopened and then undelete-voted?
In general, you should probably avoid voting in a dishonest manner.
@user21820 Vote to close, vote to delete, and/or flag for moderator attention.
@XanderHenderson In the original state of that question, it was in the deleted state with 2 undelete-votes. We cannot close/delete, and flagging will have no effect, because moderators won't undelete either, right?
14:43
@user21820 If the question is a poor question, then it should be deleted. It was in a deleted state. Why is it necessary to take any action?
Specifically, I would like to know whether we are supposed to deal with this:
31 mins ago, by user21820
If we didn't perform this experiment, it would just sit in the undelete queue for ever and ever until it gets quietly undeleted and reopened simultaneously (by who knows who) and we would never even realize it.
You can "follow" the question, in case any further action is required.
2
@Saad D3 still not deleted
@XanderHenderson Does that really work? If so, it would be a good solution (which I was unaware of).
Yes, it really works.
I use that feature a lot to deal with problematic posts.
14:45
Ok thanks a lot for that.
@XanderHenderson And that's easily causing the following list swelling fast, which scatters my energy on curating.
@Saad That is, potentially, the trade off.
I follow a lot of posts. I am rarely pinged by anything more than a couple of days old.
@user21820 There will be many questions with two undelete-votes which could be undeleted and reopened at any time. I do not get the point of undeleting such a question to delete it then again.
@Peter The point (which has been pointed out to me is still a bad idea) was that one was marked as spam and yet undelete-voted by two users, and the other was just a plain PSQ of no particular interest. Anyway, I am sorry to cause any trouble, even besides not knowing about the "follow" feature.
In any event, the little one just wandered out of bed and into my office, so I need to go.
14:50
@XanderHenderson Ok thanks and bye!
@XanderHenderson Thanks for dropping by!
Thanks @Xander!!
To everyone, I'm sorry for my mistake in indulging this curiosity and I take full responsibility for Saad's undelete-votes as well as the trouble caused. Please accept my apologies.
@user21820 No problem. I just wanted that question deleted. I understand what you were after: while deleted, your saw two votes for undeletion, and wanted to know to whom they belonged. Got it. Thanks to Xander, Whew, we're all good!!
@amWhy Thanks.
14:58
@user21820 accepted , if you promise to not do such "experiments" again. At least the chosen questions did not cause too much damage
@user21820 Just to be clear: we'd be "good" no matter what. But our intention with the post was realized, which is all good too.
@Peter The reopening was a big scare to me. I need to stop being too curious. And I certainly won't do such experiments again.
@user21820 Hope it was not the macabre question concerning determining algorithmitcally (!) when person X will die. This was the post here shocking me most , on several levels.
@Peter Oh not that one, it was just these two. Now I know that "follow" works, I'm just going to follow all questions that I vote on for quality reasons. Why didn't anyone tell us sooner? Then we won't have to look at the undeletion queue either...
I guess I would not have come to the idea to follow a deleted question, but in fact good to know that it is possible.
15:07
I sort of wish we had an undeletion queue link on the "review posts" page.
@Peter Super good, I'm going to try it out and see what happens. If it notifies us on closure too, that would be excellent.
@amWhy This link (which I made a bookmark) goes to the "delete queues for last 30 days, which includes the undeletion queue, but I'm hoping that the "follow" works for me, then even this link wouldn't be needed anymore.
@user21820 Reopen appears in both the tools and as a review queue, as does Close, but not delete nor undelete.
@user21820 I know that, but if you read my most recent post, there's overlap of other queues and the mod tool queues.
@amWhy Do you mean you want an 'endless' review queue for deletion/undeletion? Yes, I had that complaint too...
Some users acquire the rep to delete and undelete, but they don't immediately know they can click on "moderate" link, and the review menu, to review those two functions.
@amWhy Ahh I see what you mean.
By the way, not addressing that concern, but to avoid the limit on the number of posts they show you on the undelete page, I found this:
8
Q: Finding Questions With Delete Votes

mxyzplkAs a mod on RPG.SE, I'd like to be able to find questions with extant delete votes, either in the site search or in the Review section if the Review section didn't remove questions with delete votes whenever one person reviewed them. (I wish it worked like that with close votes too actually, if a...

It doesn't filter out those you have already voted on, but if there are a lot in the list and you click randomly, it's likely that you will hit one that you haven't voted on.
There is also the other 'queue' I made for deletion (which includes those that don't even have any delete-votes yet):
15:16
That is terribly annoying. I know I see a darker blue link for questions I haven't reviewed that day, and on that same day, it turns lighter blue afterwards.
@Peter: Foo-question: imaginary anti-grassmann... (Old, but really amusing.)
First they want a thing, a foo (noun) that they can multiply by zero to get foo. Then they say "it only matters that an operation times 0, ..... The question should have been closed.
@amWhy Well now I learned about imaginary grassmen.
@user21820 Hah!
15:32
Is this a question from an ongoing exam? I know that this is some sort of entrance exam in India, but the date—willingly divulged by the asker—is today!
Surely, there’s a policy against asking or answering questions from an ongoing exam.
@shoteyes Solutions have already been posted online [redacted]
47
Q: "Contest problem" policy

Willie WongWhat is our policy concerning contest questions on the Mathematics Stack Exchange? Why do we have a policy? What is a contest question? How we deal with on-going contest questions? I see a question that I know is from a contest, what do I do?

@TheSimpliFire Thanks; I was just going to search.
@shoteyes: But there is a drawback to using the contest policy; it locks the question and prevents deletion.
@TheSimpliFire You're assuming that nobody in this room is taking that exam, right? Oh, right, we are too busy handling CURED requests. =P
@user21820 I think if anyone can access CURED they can also access Youtube...
15:40
@TheSimpliFire Are the solutions in endorsed by the contest administrators?
@TheSimpliFire Yea sure, but they may not know it exists. Just like apparently the question asker didn't know (otherwise why would they ask on Math SE and provide their half attempt?).
So is it likely that the question will be locked until tomorrow? I don’t think that the solutions being posted on YouTube necessarily implies that the exam is over for all those who could possibly take it.
On the other hand, I don't think cheaters would want to come to a room named CURED.
@user21820 I removed my link to the video in ten seconds, realizing that we do not have sufficient knowledge.
@amWhy Oh okay. I didn't even notice it.
15:43
@amWhy No idea
@shoteyes Indeed. I have flagged mods for attention, but the more flags, the better, as they will likely handle it quickly.
I found the apparent details entrancezone.com/engineering/…
I am thinking of the Putnam competition where the exam will start at different times and different time zones in North America. Although, I think India only has one time zone, but there could be other reasons for different start times.
@user21820 For that extremely minimal chance I've edited out a redacted version. I don't think anyone visible here is in India and is <undergraduate
@shoteyes Interesting, I didn't know there was only one time zone
@TheSimpliFire I was half-serious, but thanks.
15:48
@user21820 I could tell, but safety is number one priority :P
@TheSimpliFire (Seriously) I'll vote for you if you run for moderator! =)
This would now be close to midnight, give or take a bit, in India, so So it won't be long until it is July 19th, in India.
@TheSimpliFire ;P Flaunt your site mod privileges! (Must be nice being able to edit messages in chats. Of course, I wouldn't know) ;D
@amWhy I must say it's very convenient without the 2min restriction. :)
@TheSimpliFire No doubt! You'll be my go-to person to correct my typos!! ;D
My bet is that it's most likely over now as I've never heard of an exam done at night time (has anyone??)
15:54
I could wait 2 hours and 40 minutes until midnight India time to answer it 😬. The question itself is not too hard, and I’d already thought up a solution, but then I realized that I should probably google the source. How strange that the OP revealed it themselves.
@shoteyes You could compose the answer and save it as a draft, or post but quickly delete, so by midnight, you can simply undelete.
Confusing statements here : Do we actually have to distinguish , for example , between the integer "$1$" and the real number "$1$" ?
D12 is a very old classical "guess the next number" exercise, often used in intelligence tests although , strictly speaking , always ill-posed.
D This has already be posted, but many posts were made in the mean-time, so I post it again.
@Peter gone
@SmokeDetector Wow even the "Show all of your work" is in the TooTall math font, copied straight from the assignment/test.
16:47
@JitendraSingh Feel free to join us in the Cafe for a word search, and you as well, Saad, and @TheSimplifire, @TheAmplitwist
@user21820 "$P(A\Delta B)$" ? I never have seen this in my probability theory course. But in fact, "copy and paste" in its worst form.
@Peter If events are treated as sets, as in Kolmogorov's probability axioms, then it's syntactically valid, referring to the symmetric difference of events. But I don't think I've used it before either.
It's closed now and I voted to delete it.
Is it the probability of "either A or B" ?
@user21820 also voted to the whole list you gave above
16:52
@Christoph Thank you!
@Peter It's either A or B but not both.
@user21820 Exactly, therefore I wrote "either A or B" , "A or B" allows that both events happen.
@Peter Ah. Sorry my logic background is making me interpret "either .. or .." funny; I agree that in natural language your phrase tends to be interpreted as symmetric difference.
@Buraian Is this a duplicate you noticed ?
17:05
@Buraian If possible, please indicate that this is a request for duplicate votes. It is not always clear, especially when your comment there is hidden.
The last displayed math in this question appears as the text of the LaTeX code on mobile devices. I tested it on my tablet and phone. But on my computer, the MathJax renders fine. I think it has something to do with the asker putting spaces after the opening $$ and before the closing $$.
Yes @Peter
@ArcticChar noted
 
1 hour later…
18:27
D1, D2, D3, D4
D5, D6, D7, D8
18:41
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Potentially bad asn for hostname in answer, username similar to website in answer (67): Finite additivity of Jordan measure by solverer on math.SE
18:53
I think this question can be unlocked now as it is officially the day after the exam in their local time.

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