@ParamanandSingh I voted to close it as it does lack context - they say "I tried induction", but they didn't say why induction did not succeed. Saying "context is confidential" makes me suspicious, but may also be valid.
One more vote needed to initiate deletion of this PSQ
This bountied question is an interesting case. The version of the question when the bounty just started was of not-so-bad quality, but subsequent edits by the OP made the quality deteriorate.
this already mentioned post needs a downvote to be open for deletion. Expecting help but offering no context with this absurd reason is not acceptable !
People are going crazy with all sorts of excuses to avoid providing context @amWhy. There was a question about Obama and CIA and now this confidential thing.
Please close this question, one more close vote needed. Consider downvoting as well, so it can be deleted; this post is from last year, and the OP has had plenty of time to improve it.
@Peter to which comment are you referring, Peter? If you hover to the right of any past comment posted in chat, you will see a "down triangle". When you click it, at the top, you can click "reply to this message". When you do that, a new message field opens, which both ping the commenter, and refer to the message you are responding to.
@Peter I think I see that you were responding to my last link. Wow, network wide!
@amWhy Sorry, @Peter, same directions above, but replace "right of any post" with "left of any post, between the user's icon, but just before the beginning of the first sentence in the message.
@XanderHenderson Your opinion on this? Interesting question, but a PSQ. I look forward to hear your view on this but right now I'm not voting to close.
@vitamind it is very easy to create all kinds of numbers and ask whether they are rational or not (like $\pi+e$, etc.). Usually it is highly likely that they are irrational but it is very difficult to prove this.
@supinf I am well aware of that. The focus of my question lies in closing or not. It seems to attract high attention even if this is a prime example for a PSQ that's why closing is probably going to be a problem since many users will vote for reopening (I assume).
Please don't understand me wrong: I'm not saying votes = not closing. I mean it's an interesting question (at least for me, even if the nature of such question is as you said, simple), which potentially could help or interest futur readers too and does not harm the sites quality, in my opinion.
I'm particularly surprised the "pi factorial" question above received so many up votes. I think Eric has a good point in his second comment, but his first comment contained the phrase "That is basically saying it is against the rules of this site for non-experts to ask questions that arise out of their own natural curiosity". I wouldn't know how to counter this.
@TeresaLisbon I could come up with a similar right at this moment: Is $\pi^{e^\pi}$ irrational? I mean both pi and e are irrational, but what about this?
@amWhy Right, I understand : so your reply to Eric's question would be that it's easy to make such a question and just leave it on the site, right?
This makes perfect sense, but there was something funny yesterday.
I still remember this quote from a user : "posters would rather eat broken glass than provide context".
This was in conversation with a user who tried, but probably failed on a few occasions to elicit context, and then they gave up and started questioning if the rules was required at all.
Even yesterday, there's a poster (the Obama one) and I told them that a couple of things they mentioned in their comments were useful and should be added to the question. They started asking : "why should I do it? Is there something inherently wrong? Can't mathematicians discuss without context and so on?" then I give them a briefer on EoQS and the effect of the pandemic, which lead to the self-deletion, probably accompanied by a shake of the head.
For a question that had a chance of reopening : the poster reacted like this.
I can certainly see from here the frustration of both users I mentioned in the comments above, but it's been reiterated here many times that people who are interested will provide context, if not at the beginning of the post then at least upon the request of askers. Lifting comments to context can be done if required as well. I don't know why so many people don't want to do it, though! We don't bend the rules, but the reality is that people's perception of the site needs to change...
@TeresaLisbon Bottom line, people sometimes don't like to have to think too much, and some don't like to have to put any effort in to anything, as though they are entitled, and express indignation at the suggestion to do so. Worse, some people are both.
Many people come here for the first time when googling a current question from homework due the next day, or from a test, and land on this site, only to insist we write an answer to it. Of course they aren't going to be happy when they realize that's not what this site was designed for.
@amWhy Correct! That's probably the best reply. And regarding questions involving curiosity of the asker : I think a curious asker will continue to be active in comments, and trying to refine their question, taking tips from the likes of Eric, even if they had a PSQ to begin with. Funnily enough, e^{pi} is in fact irrational!
@amWhy I've never thought about the "why"s very much, but from a standalone point of view, why can't one be bothered to even do what is requested in the comments, even after one asks a PSQ? The actions for not doing that are clear, but what goes through the mind of someone who's written a PSQ and receives a rectification comment? Is it "what's the point?" is it "someone else will come along and give an answer?" I mean, I've never understood, partly because I've never felt entitled to...
... answers, to the extent that I would not even do what another person asks me to do, when the same person is trying to help me get an answer. What is the driving force behind not even listening to comments, to the point of being ignorant? I think the worst is an ignored comment : at least in the Obama post the OP didn't understand WHY context was important, but if it's ignored then we don't even have a chance to talk.
Another thing I don't understand is : is there something truly, exasperatingly difficult about providing context? Does it involve diving into the Mariana trench, or climbing up the erupting Mt. Vesuvius? It can literally be as little as five to six lines : a one line source, maybe three lines of "I have seen this question before but what I have can't be solved using the same technique because of ..." and sometimes it's literally lifting the comments to the post, which requires about as much...
... effort as locating the Pacific ocean on the world map.
Impatience? Facing crunch-time? (due dates), the mistaken belief that users on math.se who answer are paid to do so (a form of "the customer is always right" ethics that runs rampant in consumerism), bottom line, if I had to choose one word to use to summarize: disrespect: for themselves, for this site, etc. sense of entitlement is a contributing factor.* habits students perfected in highschool: relying on the internet to find their answers, so they don't have much history of having
to think.
@TeresaLisbon Not at all; askers can ask for clarification can state, "I don't know what you mean by context???" Some user will likely link them to "How to ask a good question", which is incredibly specific for context in all sorts of situations. I personally don't understand why askers, even answerers, at times can't be bothered to take the site tour, or use the help-center.
@amWhy That's true! But still , the comments you made prior to this are very relevant : the sense of entitlement or presumption of an OP is the true driving factor behind posting these questions. I also don't know why users are afraid or reluctant to comment as well : is the sense of entitlement that much that there's no need to even comment!! I think we are dealing with a behemoth of a problem.
Another thing which irks me (I spoke about it to some users on my chatroom) is that some affected group of people sit and ramble on and on in various places (including the mathematics chatroom : merely asking as a hunch) about the EoQS, yet the same people haven't come in apparent droves and voted against the proposal on meta, or commented (maybe a handful did, I give them credit) against it.
I also gave reasons : but probably the biggest reason is that such people would rather be concerned with participating on-site rather than being involved in meta duties and participations!
@TeresaLisbon I agree with the vastness of the problem. Part of the problem, I think, is that many askers first come here thinking; I'll copy my math problem, and get an answer. Only to be met with a reality check. And they feel caught off guard, or are in too much of a jam (desperated) to get their work done, before an impending due date. Everything I'm saying, mind you, is about the majority of users coming here; but there are other users, who are committed to participate in this site;
are eager to learn more about the site, to gain respect, etc.
I just do not want to "overgeneralize" But what we've discussed is a huge problem. I think things worsened during the "Be Nice" campaign, which empowered new users to complain: "I asked a question, and users were mean to me!" How were they mean to you? "They refused to answer, said I needed to add context, etc."
@amWhy Oh! You can see my reply there. I don't know why, but I feel like I write long comments and long answers because I have too much to say at once. Brevity is a bit of a lost art in my case.
