@XanderHenderson Will do so. Thank you. Let me mention, however, that I think we need to review, in light of the comment by hyper neutrino, where exactly we can draw the line between the community moderators and the actual moderators in terms of responsibilities. The comment suggests that we should be passing on patterns of behaviour of users to the moderators and not be taking charge.

While I appreciate that the moderators should be handling user-specific behaviour, I felt that the moderators should be called only if strong action is required, while the actions we suggested was nothing more than closing a couple of questions and highlighting the possibility that there could be a pattern.

I trust the community moderators enough, that the indirect mentioning of the user will neither translate to a theft of identity privacy, nor targeting that user in any manner. If there is a need to do that, I will find myself reporting it to you.

NP=P-claim

C

A (multiple) duplicate: math.stackexchange.com/q/4091070/42969

This answer is wrong. It is not true that f'(0) = lim_{x \to 0} f'(x) if the derivative exists in a neighbourhood of zero, for the derivative could be discontinuous.

@TeresaLisbon We should counter the claim that downvotes to new users are against the spirit of this site even if the questions contains statements making no sense. I just do not know how to properly formulate the counter.

@TeresaLisbon I agree that that answer is wrong, as written. But a variation of that argument is valid:

C

@Peter Yes, that is true. I actually wanted to address the user in the C post, but I thought the better of it, perhaps we can find a better occasion to do so, and to be honest I don't have too much time to invest in this matter. Another problem is, I surmised the user's native language may not be English.I did not want that particular card thrown at me, in the name of some kind of discrimination. Hence I refrained from conversation.

@MartinR Yes, what you say is true.

@TeresaLisbon I have added that as an alternative answer :)

@MartinR Thanks, I left a comment there.

@Peter Perhaps I have formulated a decent counter at that post. You may take a look, and if the question is undesirable we are a downvote away from deletion anyway.

@TeresaLisbon I see nothing wrong with this counter. Thank you.

@Peter Welcome. I hope the user replies, I will like to see what they have to say about it.

This problem is unclear and has a couple of incorrect answers.

@TeresaLisbon If a user is acting contrary to site standards, raise a flag. Please do not "name-and-shame" users in public (even if the "naming" is only indirect, e.g. "Here are a bunch of posts by a troublesome user: ...").

close PSQ

@XanderHenderson Point taken. Will be careful in the future.

Also the answer to the PSQ linked above is bogus (unfortunately it is accepted).

close integral PSQ

one vote needed to close this PSQ

Is this a PSQ?

I feel tempted answering it.

Oh, well. Someone commented.

Also, maybe this one's a PSQ

Ok. Are there any subtle "phrases" other than what you mentioned that makes a question a PSQ?

@soupless No, I don't think so. It's about what isn't there, not about what is.

Ok. Thanks!

@soupless first is clearly PSQ, second is , I think, not so clear. A trial to use the hint would have been nice, however I do not go so far that I close-vote it.

Note that there is no "algorithm" to decide whether a question is PSQ. Some cases are however clear.

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Few unique characters in body (94): a+b=√5, a-b=√3. What's the value of a?/Find the value of a. by Nafisa Razzak Afnan on math.SE

PSQ to close

@ParamanandSingh Open for deletion.

@amWhy Noticed the first comment under the first answer?

@TeresaLisbon Yikes... If I had a dollar for every "I have a friend who wonders...." question on math.se ...

@user1729 Open for deletion, but given no answers and three downvotes, it will likely be handled by Roomba.

@amWhy If I had a dollar for every such question, I'd not have spent two minutes looking for the penny that slipped out of my pocket at the supermarket yesterday. The shopkeeper was laughing at me because he saw it fall in the bin, and , oh no, I really need that penny.

@TeresaLisbon Indeed. And I'd like to ask @Xander, when such patterns are flagged, (e.g., user with 80 rep whose every question (15) has been a PSQ) is then declined: Only flag if it requires moderator attention. Well it did require mod attention, because the 80 points were compliments of PSQ answerers who inflated the askers rep, enabled them, etc. My point is, if you demand that we flag mods when detecting patterns, then a few mods need some training to handle those flags appropriately.

@Xander, Else it becomes a "damned if you don't flag, and damned if you do flag" situation.

@amWhy Yes. I understand that bad behaviour will be eventually reversed, but a promptness in dealing with it will certainly wisen one or two up,knowing that the moderators and lot are on the prowl.

@TeresaLisbon But I do not believe that bad behavior will be eventually reversed. My own experience wrt to reporting to mods, flagging to mods, is that bad behavior is very seldom reversed. @Xander can attest to that.

@amirali Ah, yes, that too is a good point.

@vitamind

I was perplexed by the comment "Yes, because if I was in that position I would possibly have to answer some comment from the OP later", (meant negatively) which could be translated to - "I don't want to be bothered by comments from the OP and try to help them."

@TeresaLisbon At most, there are three mods on the prowl, and often only one, or none.

It's annoying when somebody takes 1 hour to answer over a period of days.

@HereToRelax Would it be ok if I asked you to come to the chatroom you came to yesterday i.e. here to continue? I will be there to assist you.

and when the answers are things like "we didn't see that in class"

Nope

I just wanted to clear up that I don't feel that way

I don't want assistance

I'm angry you guys closed my question

which was a good question

@amWhy I see. Of course, that explains why we were pointing out patterns in the first place. Anyway, let's do one thing : let's see if what the moderators say works out. So I'll follow them.

For some time. Once we see things are not changing, I will join the chorus again.

and then you deleted it

and then you want to hold me having 8 years on the site and almost 100k rep against me for some reason

I'm leaving this site for at least 6 months

@TeresaLisbon I've been doing that for years.

keep this question open, this is really interesting

@HereToRelax I wish you well, Jorge! Oops, I guess now it is @HereToRelax. I wish you well.

@amWhy At this point, you can feel my desperation. Having somewhat composed myself, I will say that one thing we are yet to do, and probably should do, is coordinated flagging. I put one flag on a question, then I don't flag another one, I'm losing a bit of consistency in this respect. So streamlining our flags will ensure that we get the trouble to the moderators' door quickly.

@TeresaLisbon I understand. That's what I've done for five years, the day has not fully come. I have no choice but to wait another five, another ten years if I decide to stick around, because SE changes at a rate slower than evolution.

@amWhy Let's hope for the best, the fresh blood coming in must assist us.

@TeresaLisbon I agree, assuming a moderator is at the door to receive it, and any consultation with other moderators doesn't take a month, and, and, and....

@amWhy Exactly. I am just hoping to send the message : we are doing all we can.

AND if the moderators want us to do anything , let us know!

@TeresaLisbon I don't mean to be off-putting. I would certainly be willing to work with you on that.

@amWhy Great! But for now, PSQ time.

I think this very opinion-based question should be deleted because it is essentially asking for people to rewrite crankery into mathematics.

@user21820 gone

@user21820 I'm very confused : I don't recall undeleting that question. In fact, I actually recall deleting it. How on Earth is my name on the list of openers?

→ 1 message moved to ­Trash

I don't understand. I must have been on something very heavy that day, or it must have been a misclick or something. No chance I'd want to open that.

→ 1 message moved to ­Trash

@TeresaLisbon If you wanted to delete it before, probably misclick. It could be that you saw it and didn't realize it was deleted and then voted to undelete instead lol. Anyway thanks for the delete-vote!

@ShubhrajitBhattacharya Side note : the complex question hasn't been improved and has got another close vote now. I told the OP what exactly to do, they did not do it. While I also like the question and think it will have a very illustrative answer, I would not be surprised if it got closed. But that may be good : if the OP reacts to that by editing well, then we reopen and things are good.

This 'answer' is 100% useless. CC @Peter @ParamanandSingh

PSQ

@user21820 Okay, given your CC's, I'll let the CC'd users handle it.

@TeresaLisbon You've neither downvoted, nor voted to close, after you posted your link, and before I downvoted and voted to close it.

@amWhy Sure up to you. I CCed them just because I thought they'd want to know about this kind of infinity nonsense.

@amWhy Ah yes, sorry, done now. I'd envisaged there was a duplicate and tried to find it before downvoting, but I gave up and then you reminded me!

@TeresaLisbon If it's a PSQ, I think don't even bother to find a duplicate, because marking as duplicate just makes it less likely to be automatically cleaned up. (And besides, why waste more time trying to find a duplicate than the asker spent on the question?)

@user21820 Gone. I was leaving a comment when it vanished.

@user21820 Ah yes, recall you saying this here a few days ago. Thanks. (Great point : the sad thing is that I know a book where it's given as an exercise.)

@TeresaLisbon Ah.

@XanderHenderson Lol did you believe that comments to this user would have any effect?

@XanderHenderson Me too! Good timing then. @user21820 Will have to be careful about user references.

Sorry if I sounded a little overbearing there.

@TeresaLisbon See too many times already. I can't unsee the name of user that posts infinite nonsense.

We can flag it, maybe? (Infinite as a double meaning : I LIKE that!)

@user21820 Probably not---comments seem to have little effect on most user's behavior---but since I am not willing to unilaterally delete stuff like that, a downvote and comment is the best I can do.

@TeresaLisbon: Concerning flagging, I'm not sure what is the current rate of success of flagging nonsense. I think if it is blatant the moderators might delete, but even Xander might not as he just said.

@user21820 Flagging nonsense helps in the sense that I try to keep track of users who post a lot of nonsense. It is not a local solution, but it helps more globally.

@amWhy It may just be that this is case. Again, my biggest concern regards the appearance of CURED users targeting users. I prefer not to spend time requesting that other moderators let the Math SE moderators moderate the Math SE chat.

Lol looking at my declined flags I have another request. Time to go Collatz.

Since this room gets a lot of scrutiny from the rest of the network, my preference is to be very draconian regarding references to users in here, as I don't want non-Math SE moderators chat-suspending Math SE users.

I know that is an unsatisfactory response, but there is only so much that I can do.

@XanderHenderson Ok ok ok ... But that really begs for the rhetorical question: Why don't all the nonsense and PSQs get more scrutiny? =P

@user21820 I wish they did. But chat is kind of a weird thing on the SE network.

@XanderHenderson I never said the flagging I've spoken about, nor the flag I spoke about here, was a chat flag. I was speaking solely about "damned of you flag, damned if you don't" strictly with respect to the main site, and the mod's reflexive: flag, don't confront. I was referring in my comment, to a flag I cast on a question about the askers pattern, which I observed in the review queue. And how could you possibly think I was speaking of chat when I described the gain in rep on 10-15 some PSQs

Duplicate to delete after downvoting

@amWhy I apologize---I thought you were speaking both of flagging posts, and mentioning patterns here. I thought that my reply to user21820 kind of addressed the problem with flagging (again, I try to keep track of users who get flagged a lot for posting crap), and was trying to expand on the notion of not naming-and-shaming individual users in public.

Asked by the asker.... So, I hope you are clear now, and I hope you now have time (another two minutes?) to read the previous comment of mine, that concluded, (On this site) you're damned if you flag, and you're damned if you don't! You all spend far too much yelling at us for trying to do something, than you do dealing with the fundamental problem on this site.

You are expressing a frustration which I also have. I don't have perfect advice for you.

@XanderHenderson Oh, I trust you do indeed keep track of flags. But flagging, and it's results depend on a sort of lottery.... if you get one of three mods handling it, you've got a good chance at being heard, but in the hands of either of three other mods, you're scolded, and for the rest, it's a gamble.

Image question lacking context

@amWhy Again, I share the frustration, and wish that there were more of a consensus among the moderators about how to handle PSQs and their answers.

@XanderHenderson Thanks for listening, and I fully trust three mods, without question including you, not so sure about some, but likely trust another....

Would like confirmation of this lacking context

(To be on the safe side)

@XanderHenderson It just puts users in a bind, and is part of the reason I choose to contact one of two mods, directly, often, rather than flagging.

Needs a downvote for deletion

Lacks context

@TeresaLisbon Definitely lacking effort. Without seeing any actual working, we have completely no idea what the asker tried and whether it was the right direction or not.

Please delete.

@AlexanderGruber Hello, another mod I trust!! ;D

@amWhy Waiting for the third one to make it the "three moderators"? (Close enough to musketeers in the "pronunciation" distance)

good afternoon

PSQ?

this answer has subtle issues pointed out in comments but the answerer is not ready to fix the issue. What should be done if the mathematical issue is not blatantly obvious. I don't want any action in terms of vote, but just feedback. Also note that there are other fine answers in that thread (one is by @MartinR).

→ 1 message moved to Cafe and Tavern on the math.se

PSQ, although if comments were moved into the post it would have probably been okay

@ParamanandSingh I see that the answer has been edited. I think the answerer must be asked to reframe their answer in a manner such that it is clear that their approach is to the specific question being addressed ,and not a general one, as the counterexample evidences.

this question has been updated based on my feedback in comments. Should it be reopened? I have given more feedback in comments to help asker.

@ParamanandSingh Personal thought is, it is good enough to reopen. There's a double index error in the last line of the question, k is mentioned twice.

@TeresaLisbon: Ok I am voting to reopen.

PSQ

Delete

Off topic question

Confused : is this lacking context?

Delete

Delete

PSQ

PSQ?

PSQ

PSQ?

PSQ

PSQ

PSQ

Downvote followed by delete

Request relook at evidently wrong and partly offensive answer

DONE

@TeresaLisbon Open for deletion.

@amWhy Thanks, and exiting chat for the day (or night , as it is here!)

@TeresaLisbon Take care! Also your "Downvote followed by delete" is open for deletion now.

@amWhy Finished that, must now go for good!

Also, @Teresa FYI your request in the mod chat was handled successfully. But it can wait for you to see that fact!

One more delete vote needed here

^^^ One more delete vote needed here. Sorry for my mispost immediately above.

One more delete vote need here, as well

Urgent please re-delete this question.

Please delete.

Please delete

@HereToRelax You've already repeated the same insults since you posted this. Do not play games with users here, or anywhere. Talking with you in a private room has proven worthless, given you initial return here, and calling everyone bullies. You already posted a request for undeletion and reopening this question where it belongs. For that reason, I am moving it, as duplication of a post already posted on meta.

sure that's fine

→ 8 messages moved to ­Trash

I'm still going to be on here though

Because apparently this chatroom is supposed to be used for all sorts of requests

I initially just thought its purpose was to close downvote and delete stuff

Also I'm sorry I called people bullies.

These past two days where an emotional rollercoaster sorry

But I think I'm finally getting the handle on the situation

@HereToRelax That's fine, but your request was already made elsewhere, and we will not tolerate you causing all cured users, or some cured users, bulies, and what you called me earlier, and dismissing the work of a user who really empathized with you yesterday after taking a lot of time talking with you, only to come here and throw it back in their face, Your opinions and biases you've made clear, this is not a room to rant in. I will not dismiss you, Just try to be civil.

I don't recall calling you anything

@HereToRelax I understand. I've had a stretch of two days where I've felt the same, and feel close to leaving the site entirely. It's okay to have those times, and feel that way, it's even normal for that to happen.

@HereToRelax I do not hold it against you, I really do empathise with you. Lets just all put the last two days behind us, respect one another, etc. That doesn't mean your concerns be forgotten, or some points made here or elsewhere. But let's try to put our emotion reactions aside, take a big sigh trusting we all meant well, and mean well, and move forward. Does that sound okay to you?

sounds great :)

@HereToRelax Great! ;D

I'm out of close votes for today, so perhaps somebody else can vote this question as a duplicate of the one I list in my comment there.

Thanks @amWhy and @XanderHenderson for your prompt action on that question.

@JohnOmielan I was just coming back to tell you so! ;D

@JohnOmielan Just noticed the ping here... np.

DV & Delete: This question is a dupe of a FAQ (asked and answered probably over 50 times) yet, alas, very high rep users can't resist posting dupe answers once again (and not even the best answers to boot).

@BillDubuque Thank you for finding dupe targets.

@BillDubuque That's how I voted to close it, as a dupe... but couldn't dupe hammer. I downvoted the highest rep user, and as you can see, spoke to him in comments, with his classic pushback. Thanks for noticing and thanks to @Xander for closing.

@Bill, @Xander. the question linked immediately is open for deletion now. It is not a good question to keep, IMHO.

@amWhy Yes, I saw. Kudos to you for your efforts. It needs 2 more delete votes.

@BillDubuque One more, now. I thought I had voted to delete before notifying you it was up for deletion, but now I have :-)

@BillDubuque And thanks for your comment under the highest rep users answer.

@BillDubuque Oh, and thanks for adding the FAQ to that post!