Do you guys think this question should be undeleted? math.stackexchange.com/questions/3135542/… It was deleted by the OP though, but I think it's cheating to delete your question once a complete answer has been given to it.
@stressedout I do not think that it is appropriate for a user to delete a question after they have received an answer. However, I am of the opinion that question should have been closed as soon as it was asked (it is utterly lacking in context). I therefore have no interest in voting to undelete it, just so that I can later vote to close then delete.
Your questions all look the same. You post some olympiad problem, show no effort at all, and ask us to do it for you. It looks like you can't even be bothered to learn how to format questions on this site. — luluyesterday
@quid: See above comment. I don't know what you think, but I think such behaviour is terrible. That user often posts multiple questions in the same day with the same kind of plea to influence people to give answers despite the complete lack of effort shown.
@XanderHenderson I agree. If you can, check if the OP has done the same before. If it's something that the OP does often, then it's probably a good idea to let them know that it's unethical. I think the question should be undeleted and then closed and deleted again.
@user21820 What's wrong with D3? It seems to me that the OP couldn't really show us any effort because if they knew the answer already then there was no reason to post the question. What kind of attempt could've they shown us?
D5 also looks fine, I think. Sure, it's a duplicate. But I remember a meta discussion where the majority of users believed that we shouldn't delete duplicates. At least they make it easier to search for a question in Google. The OP has shown a reasonable effort and the answer looks OK too.
@stressedout Firstly don't keep assuming things before you know the whole situation. As I already explicitly pointed out to quid, take a good look at all the questions from that user and you will see clearly that this is not an isolated case. Secondly, for this question it is obvious that one should try looking at factors...
@stressedout Again, you fail to realize that this user is a PSQ producer.
@stressedout I judge based on the question content, but in ambiguous cases I refer to previous behaviour to determine whether it is an honest effort (or as in the case pointed out to quid) an apparently disingenuous attempt to get answers.
@stressedout I am not sure - maybe it might be better to notify mods if there is suspicion that a user self-deletes questions after obtaining an answer. (They have more possibilities to check the user's deleted posts.) I will add that if somebody often deletes their own questions, they are risking to get into automated question ban.
@stressedout If you're not interested in actually understanding what I say, please stop pestering me. The cleaners on this site who care about site quality are frequently enough harassed by other users who don't care, and we don't need more of it on a regular basis.
@MartinSleziak Could you please check this user's profile and see if he deletes the questions he asks after someone posts an answer or it was just an isolated incident? math.stackexchange.com/users/646880/juan-lanfranco
@user21820 I'm sorry that you think I'm pestering you. I just have an overall objection with the way that you are deleting everything that seems not useful to you. Even when your opinion goes against the general consensus of the community discussed several times in meta discussions.
@stressedout You're wrong about that. I've seen the meta discussions you refer to, and many times there are noisy people who make a big fuss on Meta and have supporters who upvote them. Also note that a very vocal minority who doesn't care one bit about site quality actively injects their own content into questions just to attempt to preserve it, which is in fact against the general guidelines of not changing the poster's intent.
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Whenever you see an apparently okay question being discussed, don't forget to look at the actual timeline/history.
@user21820 I am in favor of what you're doing in general, and I think if done properly, it will help MSE get rid of many low quality posts, but I'm against the scope of things that you consider them not useful.
@stressedout If you want to be objective, consider that many times I am more lenient regarding effort than others in this room. I am only strict when the effort is non-existent or faked.
You have only been here a short while, and don't see all the reopen-votes and objections to close-votes that I make. So you shouldn't be so rash in judging my criteria.
@user21820 But how do you determine if an effort is honest or fake? I think it's a highly subjective and opinion-based issue. Fair enough. I agree that I should be here for a longer time to form an opinion.
@stressedout Sometimes it is clear from the question that there is no effort. Other times it suffices to take a look at the user's other posts. Just go and do that for the two users mentioned above, and if you still disagree with me then feel free to explain why they are honestly trying their best.
(And don't forget that there may be many other questions from those same users that have already been deleted, likely even worse than the ones left. Once deleted, even high-rep users like me cannot see that they exist from the profile.)
@user21820 Do you agree that many people who post their questions here are in fact clueless about thinking mathematically? So, requiring them to show us an effort in the right direction is kind of too strict in my opinion.
I believe if we constantly remove their questions, the problem will persist because instead of teaching them how to think mathematically, we're asking them to cheat by showing us some attempt, even if it's fake.
@stressedout I think that this can only be done by moderators. I left a few more comments on this in Math Meta Chat. If needed, we could continue there - so that we do not digress from the intended topic of this room.
@stressedout I think you fundamentally fail to understand that people who sign up for an account on Math SE are shown the how-to-ask page which in particular explicitly deals with "clueless" questions. This same page is also shown whenever you go to the ask-a-question page. So nobody can say that they weren't told.
@user21820 the how-to-ask page gives them general advice like use MathJax, choose a good title, provide context, etc. Look at this one for example: math.stackexchange.com/questions/3028517/…
@stressedout I think you fundamentally fail to understand that people who sign up for an account on Math SE are shown the how-to-ask page which in particular explicitly deals with "clueless" questions. This same page is also shown whenever you go to the ask-a-question page. So nobody can say that they weren't told.
@stressedout When I link a page, and you don't read the whole thing, and then you tell me I didn't give you what you were looking for, I really don't know what to say...
Anyway, look at the question. The OP has not written the definitions, but still they say that they want to construct a sequence that converges in $M+Z$. Isn't that relevant?
" Write down what you know that seems related to the problem
Any relevant theorem not in that list will be spotted right away and other users will point it out easily."
I think the OP has done this.
The other options do not apply here because the question is about theory rather than calculation
Only the first remark of writing down the definitions has been ignored and I think that's OK because everyone knows what closed and finite-dimensional mean.
@stressedout Whether or not you agree, it's very poor effort. The bottom line is that I expect as much effort as you would put in if you were to see the lecturer and ask for help with your homework question.
And the fact that it is a straightforward duplicate means that the asker didn't even do a search.
@stressedout Our opinions may not converge, and that's still fine. But I hope you understand that I always have what I consider solid reasons for every action I take. Thank you for expressing your opinions, in any case.
@user21820 I'll look more carefully later. The question do seem to contain a source at least. Especially for contest questions that's already not that bad. That they don't format correctly is bad sign though.
@quid The source appears to be an old IMC, yes. So it's not a current contest, and that's good. But other than that it's obviously not sufficient. It's the same as dumping the whole IMC and asking for full solutions, but with the plea included to evade closure.
@quid In case you have a bit of time, would you be willing to have a look at Math Meta Chat. I think this is an issue which is easier to be handled by mods than by regular users - possibly you might have some general advice on that.
@stressedout You state that "the majority of users believed that we shouldn't delete duplicates." I think that this misrepresents the consensus. My understanding is that most folk believe that duplicates should not be deleted just because they are duplicates.
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I a question is otherwise a good question, but happens to be a duplicate, then it should be closed (as a duplicate), but not deleted. Such questions serve as signposts to future readers, and may make the original question and its associated answers easier to find via search.
However, a no-effort PSQ should be closed and deleted, whether or not it duplicates another question.
Basically, I am of the opinion that you should first ask if a question meets the standards of MSE. If it does not, voting to close is appropriate (in the hopes that the asker will improve their question by making edits), followed by voting to delete (if the asker does not improve their question). If a question passes that first test, then check if it is a duplicate. If so, vote to close for that reason, but leave the question undeleted.
@stressedout: I think a key issue is that a question can only be closed for one reason at a time, and which reason "wins" is often somewhat random. A question could be unclear, lack context, and be a duplicate. So it's necessary to look at the question itself, in addition to the "official" close reason.
@user21820 If a question has no answer and has been deleted by the asker, what is the value of undeleting it? (If that sounds like a pointed question, I apologize, that is not my intent---I am genuinely curious.)
Undeleted
Please undelete On a colon ideal in the polynomial ring $\mathbb R[x,y]$ because this question has got a score of 2 after OP included his/her own thoughts on the problem. This algebraic geometry question might add value to the main site.
@XanderHenderson Because I guess that the asker was unhappy with the downvote (which came before the edit) and hence deleted it. That's the wrong reason to delete, and a waste of the asker's effort as well as anyone who read the question+comments and might have been going to answer.
@GNUSupporter8964民主女神地下教會: I find it confusing that you post here about questions that lack context, but also post on meta for equally bad questions to be undeleted.
My answer to Xander explains why I felt this particular question deserves undeletion. My reason also does not apply to askers who have deleted their account, but I replied to you just to explicitly affirm that.
If on the other hand the asker explicitly says they found their question silly, or doesn't need an answer anymore, and hasn't gotten an answer, then I don't care if they want to delete.
@Xander Henderson: I am not sure if you have taught much in the US, but students try to "solve" everything. They solve equations, integrals, series, logical formulas, theorems, etc. It's amazing all the things that can be solved.
@CarlMummert I agree with that. What did I say that made you think I didn't? I was responding to Xander only about this question, which is not from a user that has deleted his account.
@CarlMummert So what? The purpose of the site is to disseminate mathematical knowledge in answers, not to teach how to write questions. If you lose site of that then thite site becomes worthless.
@BillDubuque The purpose is not to dismiss 'knowledge in answers', you are correct, but there needs to be a balance between question quality and question answering. There are forums where low-quality questions are fine but SE is not one of them.
@TheSimpliFire The "purpose" is not relevant. If your actions greatly inhibit the dissemination of mathematical knowledge then you are doing much harm. Not to mention that such naive actions have alienated some of the most talented teachers. I highly encourage you to introspect more on such matters.
@BillDubuque "The purpose is not relevant." What does mean, after you made the topic of purpose the leading sentence of your previous comment? How do you address the fact that your arguments are double-edged? Having lots of low-quality questions also inhibits the dissemination of knowledge, both by making the good knowledge hard to find and also driving away talented teachers. Perhaps you can introspect on this matter to break the symmetry.
Honestly I am interested in hearing what the asymmetries are.
@rschwieb Only the quality of the answers is relevant. This is not a site to teach poetry of questions.
But let's be honest. Everyone with a functioning neuron knows that the perceived deficiencies in the questions are merely excuses for some users to act based on their personal prejudices against motley matters (homework, elementary questions, applied math, abstract nonsense, etc)
@BillDubuque I think I knew a wise man who would have said "You are making wild guesses about the motivations of other users and they are way off the mark (not to mention impolite)."
@rschwieb Au contraire, they are not guesses but rather facts based on what many users have written on meta. Of course they don't apply to everyone, but that's my general impressiion after a decade of meta reading.
@XanderHenderson You really should read all the old meta threads. Being (relatively) new, you weren't around for all the major arguments. Yes, people really do exhibit such prejudices and even admitted such. It's not ad-hominem to reiterate that.
@XanderHenderson I can't wait for my account ticker to hit 10 years so I can throw considering-opponents-viewpoints-in-good-faith to the wind and just hurl abuse and vague blanket statements about them! It sounds like a sweet gig
Undeleted
Please undelete On a colon ideal in the polynomial ring $\mathbb R[x,y]$ because this question has got a score of 2 after OP included his/her own thoughts on the problem. This algebraic geometry question might add value to the main site.
