The Velodrome

Paul H

03:29

@Criggie Do folks in NZ travel between the islands much? Ferry ride? How long?

Criggie

06:19

@PaulH Not really - the ferry is 3 1/2 hours each way

Willeke

11:24

Plus the hours travel to the ferry. Unless you live near the ferry terminal and/or need to be near the other one that will cost a lot of time in NZ. Those people in Auckland or Christ Church will more likely fly and even then not as often as Europeans fly across Europe.

Criggie

11:43

yeah it would be 5 hours drive to get to the ferry, then another 8-10 up the north island. A plane flight is 1 hour from Christchurch to Auckland.

And, probably a lot cheaper given petrol prices :-\

gschenk

12:29

The strait is just 19km wide, but there ferry goes much longer way, probably because it needs good harbours.

3.5h is still long. If expect a modern hydrofoil or cat passenger ferry to connect in 1h.

Cook strait is pretty shallow, and seems to have nice hard rock. Any plans to extend highway 1 and tunnel from Arapaoa island to Wellington?

Michael

Criggie has dozens of bikes, surely there is an amphibious one among them?

Willeke

15:12

I am not up to date but when I used the Inter Island ferry, back in 1999, they transported freight rail carriages. I think for those an old fashioned ferry works better. And there is not that much traffic in cars and passengers between the islands.

It was a strange experience to walk very close to those rail carriages when I accompanied a staff member on his inspection round of the decks.

Erlkoenig

17:50

Train+Ferry to Mallorca would take >24h and cost >500€. Plane takes 2h and costs <100€. Yeah...

The big question is now whether there is another winter-cycling destination within easier reach; perhaps southern Italy, but I guess that's not a cycling-friendly area

Criggie

19:51

@Michael Nope - I'm not keen on the water.

@gschenk Its also made of rocks and has some terrible winds.

As you can see - it might be only 19 km at the narrowest but the ferry goes a lot further, AND its speed limited at points so the wake doesn't do environmental damage

Rеnаud

20:31

@Erlkoenig That's the big problem with me with train: it costs a lot, and takes much more time, and if there's a connexion, there's a high probability to miss it (if the transfer time is too short)

Erlkoenig

@Rеnаud Yeah exactly. It's crazy how flying, which is much more dependent on weather, is still more reliable...

Rеnаud

Train networks are often saturated, so a small problem can have cascade effects

the sky is not

(not a proponent of the plane though, but I still think it's a commitment to take the train: you need to be rich and have the time, the two are usually not going together)

Michael

@Rеnаud rich? Lol

taking a train doesn’t mean buying the whole thing

Rеnаud

ok, have enough disposable income

to go to France, it's a 4-5 ratio between plane and train

even worse if you want to take the night train

Michael

we really need a proper CO2 tax

though to be fair, modern planes have ~50g CO2/passenger/km when full

Willeke

20:50

Plane fuel should be taxed the same as car fuel in all countries, which would raise the cost of flying to something nearer equal with other modes of transport.

Even when more expensive and taking longer I prefer trains over planes, or to be more precise, I hate airports enough to take a lot of minor annoyances in train travel. Flying itself is kind of fun.

Michael

@Willeke I don’t know, how much of the cost is the fuel? 20% maybe? Would the tax even double the fuel price?

Rеnаud

not sure, one of the tricky parts with planes is that you don't need infrastructure between the airports. That infrastructure is also subsidized with other means of transport, and lack of infrastructure means that connexion cannot be made.

Willeke

But more and more I prefer to go under my own power on my own wheels.

Michael

yes, going by bike is great

Rеnаud

I used to fly a lot for work (last one being a 2-day trip to Botswana), glad I won't have to do it anymore.

Willeke

20:55

Airports themselves are subsidized, and tax on fuel is very high, but I do not know the percentage.

Michael

I’ve been invited to a climbing trip to France in summer but I’d hate going by car or plane. Might take the bike, at least from Switzerland.

Willeke

In Europe at least, less so in the US.

I have a meeting coming up in May, in England, Chatham. I only hope my new VM will be delivered before then.

Rеnаud

I tend to prefer the car for up to 1200km, the thing also is that loads of good cycling/hiking destinations are not close to airports, so the car gets an edge there.

Willeke

300 km to Dunkirk, 50 km Dover to Chatham, and about the same distance if I return home via Harwich and Hook of Holland.

Not having a driving licence (nor a travel partner with one) stops that option for me.

Michael

@Rеnаud 1200km?! I went that distance once (as a passenger) and regretted it forever

it’s so boooring and uncomfortable and the CO2 emissions …

if you split it over multiple days it might be okay

Rеnаud

21:02

@Michael I went once to Cantabria with the caving club. We were 5 in the car, and rotated to drive.

But I won't deny the very boring part ;-)

Willeke

I prefer the train over traveling by car but have done several 1200 to 1500km trips and can live with them.

Rеnаud

But my recent experience with the train made me reconsider the car for such distances ;-)

Willeke

Motorway is boring but for these kind of distances you do not want anything else.

My best train travel memories come from multiple day train journeys, no need to get out for the next 48 hours, when I was young enough not to mind sleeping on the ground under the seats.

Something different, topic on the Dutch 'bent forum, what if the Tour de France had no rules. This link was the whole first post:

What If The Tour De France Had No Rules?

►

Rеnаud

For me the travel itself have always been the least pleasant part of holidays, no matter the mean of transport.

@Willeke Just look at time trial/triathlon bikes, there are no rules there

Willeke

I still have to watch it. We had a discussion in the last couple of days about how a prof rider trained on 'bents or in a VM would do on the recent years TdF routes.

Fewer rules for time trial but still quite a few, recumbents are so far off limits that those are not even talked about.

I am going to watch that vid now.

Willeke

21:36

Those guys know a lot about 'normal' bikes but have very limited experience in recumbents.

gschenk

21:59

One issue with traveling by bike: what do you do in case you have a mechanical, injury, etc. So you don't make it to the next city where you booked accommodation? This cascades then to all following bookings.

To a lesser extent this also applies to bike packing, when you have to book camp sites in advance.

gschenk

22:15

@Rеnаud it's just so painful, hours upon hours in a confined cramped position. The longest car trip I was on was just Munich to Vernona with stops at Trento and Sirmione for two hours each. 1200 km sounds like a nightmare.

On the train I've been at least have a pleasant lazy day with a book or chess, coffee and cake. If things would go well ..

Still, you have to be well off to travel by train. Expensive, so much planning, also contingency plans. People with less disposable income and more stressful work just go all-inclusive.

Willeke

@gschenk I would not book ahead in most cases or just for the next one or two nights, so you do not lose much money if you cannot reach your accommodation.

gschenk

But you also have the rich sporty guys who travel all the time. Long weekends in Alta Badia (by car) two spring trips with 5 days cycling on Baléares. Long distance in Summer. X-mas diving in topics. And every weekend a day trip to the Alps for cycling or climbing.

Willeke

I followed that system already when combining Interrail with youth hostels,

I might go a bit further and book all nights on my way to Dover. Having travel insurance might take cancelled hotel bookings in case of illness or injury, never had to rely on that.

Traveling late spring helps, many hotels already open but not fully booked.

gschenk

22:31

Lots of hotels you can for free cancel right until day of arrival.

Was more concerned if having to book the rest of the way.

Willeke

That too.

I might want to book the ferries, as prices do tend to go up nearer the day but unless I know the new VM is available I am not sure I can cycle there.

gschenk

I mean book again. Finding hostel or Airbnb with vacancy and good price, just at the right spot in town.

Willeke

I can always take the day ferry Harwich - Hook, which is less fussy about booking a cabin.

gschenk

@Willeke are bikes allowed on the train under the channel? VM probably not.

@Willeke ah the other ferry is overnight?

Willeke

In most of the longer rides I have done I did not book ahead.

gschenk

22:37

@Willeke how did you book the same day? Took a longer break to search and reserve accommodation?

Willeke

@gschenk only folding bikes in a cover or bag, as far as I know, in Eurostar, in the chunnel you can book a bike inclusive car or coach crossing, only standard bikes.

In the evening do an internet search or in the day go to the tourist information center.

May be a van rather than a coach.

In some cases I did not book ahead and just stopped at a hotel and asked for a room.

Harwich - Hook has a day and a night ferry. Dunkirk to Dover has a ferry every two hours for most of the day.

gschenk

If really like to do to the UK. But it's such a long and expensive trip. Probably will wait until I have a month or two (and lots of money) to make it worthwhile. Getting around in the UK is now pretty expensive and difficult too.

@Willeke you just prepared a list with possible hotels.

I'm just afraid I don't find anything and have to go to take two regular rooms in something awful and super expensive like a holiday inn. Also afraid of having to criss-cross in a city to work through my list and ask for vacancy and compare prices when online booking closes.

Hmm, such a trip is quite a plunge into deep water. Really would like to do it but the amount of contingency planning seems so overwhelming.

Oh, final question, do you research bail-out plans. That is, how to get home, get your VM home in case you cannot continue?

Willeke

23:00

I never have bothered with alternative plans but with the current VM I feel I need to think about it. But having friends spread over the UK and Netherlands I think I might still go if the new bike is not ready yet.

Do not plan to plan that much

A two wheeled bike will fit in most b&b, hotels and so on. Have a flexible travel plan and chat with Chris H, who has tons of travel UK experience by bike.

In the UK you can often cover the distance of a days ride by train.

With your kind of bike at least.

gschenk

I quite like b&b in Germany and Austria. Not super expensive for a hotel, clean and no amenities I don't need it want.

Willeke

In the worst case I will have to leave my VM behind and have it transported home by a transport company, or sell it in the UK as damaged vehicle.

It is tomorrow now, I better get some sleep.

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