I thought the distinction arises from the gulf between sizes. MTB tires are anywhere from 1.75” to 3”, and fatbike tires are from 4” to 5”, but there aren’t any 3.5” tires. I’m guessing I only have to wait a few moments until someone tells me how incorrect this is. 😉

seems like a fair border... but yeah things move on so if you were to hard-code "3.5 inches" in law, then in 10 years it might be laughable as fat bikes have 3.499 inch tyres

Could have used larger tyres yesterday... Mud and leaves formed a firm mass between tyre and fenders (why did I use those?) and acted like a seized brake

grml grml if only there were a way to transport a laptop without a rear rack and panniers :(

planning an Italy workation

could put a Tailfin rear rack on the road bike

Backpack? Are you going to carry the laptop long-distance or just from the train station?

that’s exactly the problem/decision

if I take it in the backpack it would suck to ride for more than an hour or so

there is a good train connection from Linz to Bologna but if I want to continue on to Siena it would get trickier by train and it would be nice to ride those ~200km in two days or so

mhhhhh, is there even a way to put a rear rack on the road bike? The thru axle doesn’t go through on the drive side: granfondo-cycling.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2022/06/…

so basically I don’t have any solid mounting point on the drive side

Well that's not exactly the typical bikepacking bike 😅

@Michael I do exactly that. 2019 macbook in a coroplast case, stuffed into a backpack for about an hour each way.

My back gets sweaty, so I shower on arrival.

@Criggie I hate it even for 20 minutes

on an upright citybike I can cycle even with a 15kg backpack

Totally agree, even on a regular gravel bike it feels terrible

Not disagreeing, but a "good" backpack can make it much better

I ended up making my own

the problem is that all the weight is inevitably on your back and not on your shoulders or hips

I have a Deuter Giga Bike, perfectly fine backpack

Foldable thinkpads exist but they're as expensive as an entire bikepacking bike 🤣

unfortunately I can only have a Macbook for work -.-

and I’m still on the old Macbook Pro 2019 with the big screen

next year I’ll maybe get the latest one with the smaller size

but even then it’s not like it’s going to fit in a saddle bag?

@Michael I imagine that you don't even have fender mounts inside? If yes, there are some fender/light rack combo's may work (look at the Cube Nuroad FE).

@Criggie make that 10 days, if not 10 hours. The design is ready and the first models are ready for production.

And if the tire size they want is not on the market yet, with high enough predicted sales they will make them. Cheap and poor quality like the whole of those bikes

@Willeke I didn't follow that discussion, but why do they want to take special measures about "fatbikes" (with the confusion it brings when using an existing name for another purpose), instead of enforcing regulations on tempered bikes? Except a populist measure (easier to make regulations than to enforce), I don't really see the point, as it's very easy to around technical criteria).

IMO power limits would be much more sensible than speed limits for e-bikes...

@Rеnаud they concentrated on E-fatbikes because those are in fashion with young teens and involved in many accidents.

We also wonder why the police does not enforce the speed limits but that is an old one. We have a class of mopeds only allowed 25 kmh which had no compulsory helmet requirement. Relatively recent they made helmets compulsory for those and the teens who would have bought one of those now have bought an E-fatbike. And as there is no minimum age for E-bikes younger kids ride them as well.

@Rеnаud nope, the only hole on the drive side is for the derailleur hanger :(

Having a minimum age for e-bikes makes sense, as young kids get injured in accidents more often and with worse injuries. And there were as many kids 12 to 15 as there were 16 to 19 when they registered every bike accident in every emergency department in the country.

@Rеnаud maaaaybe one could machine a derailleur hanger which has a hole for a rear rack and is supported by the thru axle

Can't you make a luggage rack that attaches around the frame rather than needing a hole?

@Erlkoenig the big question is what we want to achieve. Apparently the unassisted speed record for a bicycle on flat ground is 133km/h

@Michael If someone has the legs for that, they should be able to go for it but of course observe speed limits

@Willeke it’s a high end carbon frame, I’d rather not (I’d also not risk it on a lightweight aluminium frame with thin tubes)

High power means potentially large forces at work which can cause more damage. In good conditions (downhill, tailwind) a low-powered ebike can still get you pretty fast, but so would medium-strength legs

in the end it’s all about obeying all the other road laws, which includes riding a reasonable speed suitable for the conditions (even if the limit would be higher)

yeah of course, speed limit always apply anyways. The main issue with e-bikes is whether the rider is able to keep the vehicle under control.

I can theoretically sprint 50km/h or so on my road bike, but the point is that I mustn’t do it in the pedestrian zone or on the cyclepath when there is chaos and kids everywhere

IMO an e-bike with lower maximum power that can go e.g. 35 km/h is but takes a while to accelerate is less dangerous than today's high-powered e-bikes that are limited to 25 km/h

Motorcycle classes are distinguished mostly by CC's which is proportional to power. There is also a speed limiter but the cutoff-speed is usually the maximum achievable with that power/CC anyways. That seems reasonable to me.

@Willeke I got that, it's just surprising to me to see the difference in communication. In France and Belgium (at least the French speaking parts), the discourse is more on tempered bikes than "fat bikes".

@Willeke There are some options that exist, but not advised on carbon frames (Thule and Ortlieb) as carbon is not resistant to clamping.

@Erlkoenig again, what do we want to achieve? I mean … if we imagine no limits for a moment you’d have motorbikes going 100km/h on cyclepaths outside of cities and 50km/h inside of cities (assuming they obey speed limits)

@Michael On bikepaths you still have to obey "appropriate speed" laws. If you go way over typical bikepath speeds (e.g. 45 km/h on a road bike), you must ride in the road anyways.

@Michael The existing speed regulations and my proposed power regulation limit damage cause by a strong engine... Of course this doesn't free you from obeying the usual road laws, which should be enforced as usual.

The problem with young kids on e-bikes is that they have not yet learned to handle the speed. By the time they are 16 and can reach 25kmh on a normal bike they are ready for an e-bike. And if that bike is well built is going faster than 25 not that much of a problem. But they need to adjust to the traffic where they want to ride.

@Erlkoenig you would expect fast bikes having to ride between the cars, but here they have to ride with the slower bikes.

@Michael There was a brief period where I had two work laptops. One lived at home, the other at work. It was glorious.

@Criggie aah, nice. At least I only have to bring in the laptop on Tuesday and back home on Thursday and I only have to use the backpack if I take the road bike. The cyclocross has a rear rack.

@Willeke When looking at what seems to be the typical fatbikes in NL, I doubt that age is the biggest problem (teenagers may do some stupid stuff, but they also learn fast). Looking at what is on this page: voltfiets.eu/collections/fatbikes it looks to me that nobody can handle one of these at speed (especially with bad quality tires at the wrong pressure and unmaintained mechanical disc brakes).

when I go for a training ride I hang the backpack on a tree and hope nobody steals it and the laptop while I’m doing my 2h lap

@Michael Wow, incredible... I hope there's some good disk encryption enabled 🤯