The Velodrome

Criggie

00:45

totally - but be mindful that OP used one region, and that should be consistent across the post. Answers can be in another region fine.
I'll sometimes add metric units but leave the original there too.

Its a hack-job - some poor BSO hard tail with a front motor bolt-in wheel, and a **LOT** of batteries.
Not sure quite what's hidden behind all the metal work - there's the green cog on the rear wheel left hand side from a second drive chain, but no chain. Perhaps there's a rubbee-style drive to the rear wheel?

There are two chargers visible, so clearly its two ebike motor/batt systems on the same bike.

Look at the squish on the rear tyre.... I bet its really heavy

Based on my riding experiences, I bet the front wheel slips a lot, specially when acellerating.

DavidW

01:57

@Criggie Oh, for sure. People should be consistent (but they mostly are) and each post can have its own voice. In this case I'm complaining about a completely gratuitous "pedalling" -> "pedaling" change when the former is used consistently.

Criggie

Fair point. Sometimes thats a spelling check auto correcting when someone types in the same box.

"its own voice" I like that

Erlkoenig

05:20

Dresden is removing a new bike lane on a bridge after just 10 days, as drivers were angry about the traffic jams. Car wins again.

Michael

07:10

wtf

that’s Germany for you

in Austria things are slowly changing for the better

@Criggie: any idea if this 3D print would be tough enough to survive long term? printables.com/model/642443-dub-reducer-for-24mm-spindle

my old road bike had a Shimano Ultegra crankset originally (24mm spindle). I changed to an SRAM DUB (28.99mm spindle) crankset + bearings. To sell the bike I want to change back to the old Ultegra crankset but I’d rather keep the new-ish DUB bearings installed

Erlkoenig

07:58

@Michael Yeah... Even in the US, which has terrible bike infrastructure in general, when they do start building bike lanes they stick to it. Same with many other places such as Paris, Barcelona - it's a huge task but at least they go forward

@Michael Perhaps use a machining service to have it milled from aluminum? It's supposedly affordable nowadays

Criggie

@Michael Depends what its printed in, and what pressures its under. its quite small

thats at 0.2mm layer height,

Rеnаud

08:24

@Michael Having the "adapter" printed will probably cost you more than a new BB... (18€ for a new Ultegra one).

Rеnаud

08:41

(just by contrast, I recently order a GoPro mount for a saddle - custom part, but that requires much less resistance and tolerance don't need to be as tight, that was 24€ shipping )

Erlkoenig

@Rеnаud Funny how even an Ultegra BB is that cheap while fancy ones cost more than 10× as much

Rеnаud

09:01

And the Dura-Ace ones are 32€. That being said, in dusty gravel use, longevity is not great (I use the XT ones, they last a bit longer than 2 chains). But I doubt the fancy ones will last 10 times more.

Erlkoenig

10:10

XT BB lasts only 2 chains?! What the hell are you doing with it?

2

Rеnаud

10:20

Good question: very fine dust around here (silt). I'll have more accurate stats soon though, as I finally track that with an app. From what I could on the net, it's in the "low normal" range (about 4-5Mm).

Erlkoenig

Uh, on an MTB? Doing jumps?

Rеnаud

No a "hybrid gravel bike" that I use on stuff that are on the rough side for a gravel but that would be boring on a MTB. I would think that exposure to mud and dust is worst for BBs than doing jumps ;)

Erlkoenig

10:38

I see, sure but jumps cause impacts on the BB. I've ridden through a lot of mud, dirt, snow, puddles on the gravelbike but the BB bearings appear almost as new after ~9000km. Would've expected a XT BB to last at least as long

Michael

11:08

@Rеnаud yeah, I’d have a friend print it

I’m mostly afraid of all the hassle of getting the pressfit bearings out

I installed with retaining compound :D

@Criggie 3g? Aluminium would be 12g apparently: bikefit-kit.com/products/copy-of-croder-bb-adapter-30mm-to-24mm

probably really too weak in PLA

Rеnаud

@Erlkoenig That being said, I'm sometimes wondering if the "cheap nature" doesn't play a role as well (lower manufacturing tolerances, and so shell misalignments). The retail price of the cheapest version of that bike costed around 450€ when I bought it (for a Trek...), and the frame was shared accross the range.

Michael

@Rеnаud supposedly frame quality/alignment is very important for BB longevity. Unfortunately a reaming+tapping tool costs ~500€

Erlkoenig

@Rеnаud Good point. I'd hope my frame has good tolerances, perhaps that helps with the durability of my BB 😅

Criggie

yeah - but cost comes into it. Bespoke aluminium parts aren't goign to be cheap, whereas I can print in PLA.
I have some toe-clip spacers made from PLA and they work great. But they don't hold any real load, which is carried by a bolt up the middle.

Rеnаud

@Erlkoenig I'll see if the serious bike is better on that aspect (one of the reasons why I started collecting stats). But the serious bike has only be used during in road club rides so far, so that is a bit of a bias.

Waiting for the weather to get better to use on gravel rides :p

Erlkoenig

11:18

You need good weather for gravel? 🤣

Rеnаud

No, I have the fun bike for bad weather, the serious bike for good weather :p

Erlkoenig

hihi I see 😁

My bike has to suffer through everything

Rеnаud

Still not at ease with drop bars on muddy single trails.

Michael

mhhh, do I go cycling tomorrow? Could end up in snow -.-

or rain -.-

and 4 – 8°C

Criggie

Sounds awesome !

Rеnаud

11:22

(the serious bike hasn't been formally introduced here I think, it's a proper gravel bike - Diverge)

Erlkoenig

@Rеnаud Big tyres and wide bars help!

Rеnаud

@Erlkoenig Flat handle bars and front suspension also :p

Erlkoenig

Too much help 🤣

@Rеnаud Nice, with the futurshock?

Rеnаud

@Erlkoenig Yep, and the frame storage :)

The Futureshock is super nice on bad roads/cobblestones. It also allow to run tires at higher pressure without impacting the comfort, so easier to keep up with the roadies.

Michael

11:46

white or black or blue for a cycling cap?

which brim color is less distracting in contrast to the sky?

Erlkoenig

12:37

@Rеnаud The in-frame storage is really cool, I wish more bikes had it, particularly also metal bikes...

@Rеnаud Nice observation. Recently had the opportunity to see a future-shock bike in person at a shop. It's really compliant. I had asked a question on the main page about how it compares to a Ti fork - it's indeed much more compliant. But the Ti fork is maintenance-free 😉

@Michael Don't dark colors heat up in the sun...

Michael

@Erlkoenig I’m currently trying to figure out the minipump problem on the new bike. Mounting it to the frame is really un-aero

Erlkoenig

Solution: Find a pump that looks good on the frame, then you can mount it outside 🤣

Michael

ride.lezyne.com/cdn/shop/products/…

probably adds like 0.2W drag when mounted like this!

Erlkoenig

But only at 50 kph 🤣

Rеnаud

@Michael How could a pump stored in the frame be less aero than a pump mounted on the frame?

Michael

12:44

@Rеnаud I was trying to say I’m envious of the in-frame storage

because I’m more or less limited to mounting on (outside) the frame

inside the steerer tube would maybe be an option if Rose tells me it’s safe to remove the expander plug

Rеnаud

@Erlkoenig cyclingabout.com/… (it's the old version though)

Erlkoenig

I was very close to buying the 2021 version, really looks very nice 😉

Michael

but that’s ages ago!

new Diverge STR Expert for 7k€

it’s a bargain

8.5kg, not too bad for full suspension

Erlkoenig

Lighter than my fully rigid bike 🤣

Michael come lately

@DavidW I have reverted the "pedalling" -> "pedaling" part of the change. I intentionally skipped "favourite" the first time, but I didn't know the other one was a regional variant.

Michael

12:53

reminds me, I have to weigh my Rose XLite 06

Rеnаud

@Michael Ah misread your comment, sorry. But one could say that a downtube big enough (inside) to store a mini pump is less aero than a regular one

@Erlkoenig The Futureshock is also maintenance free (entirely sealed - 1 front suspension to service is enough for me), but needs to be replaced if broken. That was a big hesitation I have to say, but it looks like failures are rare.

Erlkoenig

@Rеnаud Hmm, the 2021 version required a maintenance every 50h of operation

Rеnаud

13:09

@Erlkoenig support.specialized.com/diverge/en/service-maintenance/…

DavidW

@Michael My cap is mostly white, but the inside of the brim is dark. Seems to be the best of both worlds. (The inside brim is dark red, but perhaps because it's at the edge of my vision and in shade I'm never really aware of the colour when it's on.)

Erlkoenig

@Rеnаud Hmm, seems like I misremembered.

Michael come lately

@DavidW Is the brim different colors on top/underneath? I've only had one hat like that, for a sports team.

Seems clever, though.

gschenk

Does American English stress the first syllable in pedal? Why are so many American contributors here misspell pedalling as peddling?

Michael

autocompletion?

Michael come lately

13:17

We do indeed stress the first syllable. Does British English stress the second?

Peddling and Pedaling sound exactly the same.

Rеnаud

@Erlkoenig The page I linked to says that the "shocks and forks" needs to be serviced every 50h, but in Specialized jargon, that doesn't apply to Futureshock.

Michael come lately

As do Peddle and Pedal.

gschenk

No I think it's a common confusion with peddler (travelling salesman) without knowing about the root in 'pedes'.

Michael come lately

(And Petal)

I think it's just that people can't spell. :P

gschenk

Consonants are only doubled for stressed final syllable.

Erlkoenig

13:21

Next up: Braking vs. Breaking

Michael come lately

YES OMG YES

Erlkoenig

Tyre vs tire

gschenk

well, tire is correct in American English (AE)

Michael come lately

I understand when people have trouble with derailleur. But "braking" is not that hard.

gschenk

gesture completion always makes 'breaking' i have to try several times when writing on a phone.

Michael come lately

13:22

@gschenk Confirmed. We also have a different spelling for kerb/curb.

gschenk

that's weird in Canada. It's 'tire' throughout. But people find 'curb' a weird spelling. That's perhaps 'tire' is in adverts, and you hardly see kerb/curb written out. So people stick to the spelling they learnt in school.

Michael come lately

I was surprised (though I should not have been) that there are differences between US and Canada, too. For "skeletal system," US is "SKELL e tal" but CA (AIUI) is "skel EE tal"

gschenk

@Michaelcomelately I rather have the impression that Americans care much less about consistent or correct spelling than, for example, most Europeans. It might have a lot to do with prescriptive and descriptive interpretations of orthography. Or a stronger emphasis on pragmatism and individualism.

Rеnаud

@gschenk That let me think to an answer I've seen from someone who asked the difference between mudguard and fenders, the answer was: mudguards protects you from the projections from the tyres, and fenders from the projections from the tires.

Michael come lately

I think it's just laziness, but I didn't grow up here, so take that with all the extra caveats.

gschenk

13:30

You have the two shibboleths that define being Canadian: 'centre' and 'colour'

I had fierce arguments with a kindergarten teacher in Canada who was staunchly against prescriptivism. She was also very much against that etymology of words ought have any bearing on its present use or spelling. I did not like her arguments but have to admit, hers were likely much better than mine. For Canada at least. Here in Germany educational elitism is much more accepted.

For other Europeans: 'kindergarden teacher' in Ontario is a real teacher at a primary school. Not just someone who takes care children don't run away. There are two years before first form at primary schools.

gschenk

13:47

@Rеnаud mudguards don't make a lot of sense in Arizona or New Mexico.

Michael

14:05

@Michaelcomelately derailleur is easy once you break it into small parts

de rail leur

Rеnаud

@Michael It's even easier when you how it's written in French, and then you forget the accents :p

Michael come lately

@Rеnаud I think you accidentally a word.

gschenk

oughtn't people misspell it more like derayer?

Michael come lately

When I hear people say it in the US, it's "dee RAIL er"

Rеnаud

@Michaelcomelately I very often a word.

gschenk

14:13

derailer seems like a good word for it then.

Michael come lately

leading to the various tags derailer derailler deraillur, etc.

Rеnаud

@Michaelcomelately The etymology is in fact based on the idea that it's a device that puts other things "off the rails" (works both in French and in English)

Michael

maybe everyone should just say Schaltwerk

Michael come lately

Later tag: "shaltwork"

Rеnаud

Or "cambi", Italian always sounds better.

gschenk

14:18

pro tip for Romance speakers learning English. beach/bitch long /i:/ and short /i/ respectively. The second vowel in famille (famiglia) is nearly the same sound.

cambi di campa?

Rеnаud

although cambi is for the rear one. The front one is "deragliatore", that sounds cool, but would be even harder for non-italians to write.

Michael

@Rеnаud doesn’t it just mean change?

gschenk

cambiare?

Schaltwerk or cambi, which one shifts more smoothly?

Rеnаud

@Michael Cambio (sing), Cambi (plural), both are written like conjugated forms of cambiare.

@gschenk Don't know, I guess ディレイラー is the smoothest.

Michael come lately

@Rеnаud Haha. I was just thinking "what is the Japanese..."

Erlkoenig

15:08

@gschenk Campagnolo gears intentionally shift pretty clunky

Paul H

16:01

So, uh, I guess if anyone (Andrew) is curious: I absolutely hose my mountain bikes off (with their seemingly infinite bearings) off after a dirty ride. Three years into the current trail bike's life, all bearings turn great.

Also, from 1 - 2 m, a pressure washer's spray is pretty gentle, so, yeah, absolutely down for that as well.

https://bicycles.stackexchange.com/questions/93901/fsa-mega-exo-24-threaded-shell-bb-turns-free-when-off-the-bike-but-turns-rough/93928?noredirect=1#comment220349_93928

And as cheesy as it is, here's a good demonstration on how aggressive with a pressure washer you actually have to be to bypass quality seals on a bearing:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LzbpHGyFzc8&pp=ygUTZ2NuIHByZXNzdXJlIHdhc2hlcg%3D%3D

Michael

@PaulH now the opposite question is: What happens if you don’t wash at all?

I don’t believe in bicycle washing

Erlkoenig

16:34

Just now I had one bearing replaced, the outermost one on the freehub body, which was rusting. I don't think it was caused by washing, probably due to road salt. The other wheel bearings are fine

Paul H

16:52

@Michael In the case of my mountain bike, chunks of mud accumulate. I don't "wash" the bike per se. I hose it off to clear the mud off the frame and to knock it away from the bearing and suspension + dropper post seals without damaging the sliding surfaces.

Weiwen Ng

17:08

@PaulH That's a good vid, and I'm watching it now. I have to observe, though, that at 2:15 where Simon is spraying a hose at the crankset, this is exactly what I mean by not aiming at the bearings. Basically, do that if you're washing the bike, instead of doing what Peter Sagan did here youtube.com/shorts/Vs54r1ABpRw?si=FcDjePG6ce8nrfCS

Paul H

@WeiwenNg you're absolutely right to not aim at bearings, but some people (Andrew) take that advice to be far too dire. My point is that you'd have to work really hard or have failed bearing seals to do any damage to bearings with a garden hose.

MaplePanda

@Erlkoenig BB shell alignment might be off

Weiwen Ng

17:25

I mean, your average cyclist is probably not that technically oriented. They may not think about where all the bearings and bushings are. So they might not know where to spray and where not to.

Erlkoenig

17:47

TIL why you need a SUV in the city: To drive up high curbs in order to drive on the bike lane.

Rеnаud

19:51

@Michael bicycles.stackexchange.com/questions/86867/… is what happens if you have a sliding surface and don't clean. Grease and dust can be very abrasive.

And more importantly, mud is just useless weight...

Michael

20:09

@Rеnаud but are you really going to get the dirt out from where it matters with a garden hose?

if it’s already halfway past the seals and grinding down the important stuff?

Rеnаud

@Michael That kind, no, but there are parts where you can have an accumulation of mud that is not so much of a problem when it's wet, but that can lower the performance of some mechanisms when the mud is dry - pedals and derailleurs are the first suspects.

@WeiwenNg Your average cyclist also probably have Tourney hubs or BB bearings without sealings/barriers.

so this recommendation makes more sense in this context than for someone who has better equipment.

Erlkoenig

20:33

... why would a bicycle insurance cost double for a regular bike as for an e-bike?!

Erlkoenig

20:46

I have the suspicion that all bicycle insurances are a bloody scam.

Michael come lately

So was my "turning into a werewolf" insurance. I heard they were never going to pay out my claim, so I hung out by their office one winter night and ate all the actuaries.

(/jokes) I'm sorry you're having trouble with your bike insurance.

Erlkoenig

Well luckily I don't have an insurance 🤣 I was just researching them. Got served another ad for another insurance, and like the others, their pricing is bonkers

Perhaps the idea is: Only very few people will sign a bicycle insurance anyways. So you have to do marketing that taps into the fears of certain possible customers. And demand insanely high premiums due to the small customer base

Michael come lately

If there are histograms of insured bikes and/or ebikes by bike price, insurance price, location, etc., that'd be interesting.

I think it's also that anyone who can afford to will self-insure, leaving only people with bicycles they can't afford to lose. It's almost a circular problem.

Erlkoenig

21:05

@Michaelcomelately Yeah, thanks to ebikes the average price probably moves up

@Michaelcomelately Interesting point

But then your bike is too expensive, our you have so little money you can't afford the insurance either 🤔

Michael come lately

Average total price of bicycles moves up with e-bikes, sure. But if (and this is a big "if") if the result is more people total insuring bicycles of any kind, the insurance prices will probably fall as risks of damage and theft are spread among more insurees.

Motor vehicle insurance is commoditized partially because it is compulsory. I'm (obv) not in favor of mandatory bicycle insurance, but having more people covered is better for everyone.

If you get the money and lobbying power behind insurers asking the city to make things safer, it might help with infrastructure, parking, etc.

I just don't want to be the first one to sign up. Too expensive. ;P

Rеnаud

@Erlkoenig I'd be curious to see how many people expensive buy bikes using credits/leasings. This public would rather take the insurance as well. Note that here (e-)bikes can be offered as benefits, and I'd suspect that companies offering this benefit would rather take a leasing than buying the bike upfront.

I'm also aware of people taking insurances primarily to have road assistance — a puncture with a cargo-bike that has a IGH is harder to fix than with a regular bike. Also, this public sees the bike as car replacement, so the insurance still seems like a bargain compared to a car one.

@Michaelcomelately Situation may be different in the US, because of the size of the country, but in Europe, went I went to the police to declare the theft of the lazy bike, they explained that the biggest problem was that the stolen bikes were taken abroad, and there's no legal structure that allows them to recover a stolen bike abroad — where they can mostly act is on networks. So in other words, unless this problem is solved, theft will keep increasing.

Michael come lately

21:27

Not just you. Our bikes are also shipped to Guatemala. bicycles.stackexchange.com/a/91208/33084

Criggie

uggghhhh - get to work and the lift-access system isn't working, and the fire escape doors are only allowing access to prime-numbered floors. And the coffee machine is on 4, the top floor.
sounds like an excellent day to WFH, but I'm already here

@Erlkoenig Having spent 7 years dealing with insurance post-earthquake, insurance is a scam.

@Michaelcomelately Yeah - well bikes have a cost, and strapping motors and batteries and wiring and so-on just adds to the cost. An ebike that costs teh same as a normal bike must have cut corners all over to make the price point.

Michael come lately

Yeah. I guess it's hard to dissuade theft when you can't recover the goods, and the thieves may be transient in the first place. :(

@Criggie I started a new job one time and noticed the fire exit when I went to the bathroom. "Oh, I'll just see where this goes, so I can walk up instead of taking the lift." It locked behind me, as did each subsequent door. I ended up in an alley by a foul-smelling dumpster and had to walk around the block to get back to the front door.

Criggie

-grin- yeah some places prioritise the lift over stairs.
Conversly, another job I did had such slow lifts that everyone used the stairs at all times.

MaplePanda

21:48

@PaulH which answer/comment are you referring to?

gschenk

22:55

@Michael washing makes all the difference in bike maintenance. If you don't wash you get your hand dirty and it's honest work. You wash and it's like playing Lego.

Paul H

@MaplePanda This one: bicycles.stackexchange.com/questions/93901/…

gschenk

@Erlkoenig more people will insure expensive e-bikes whereas regular bikes might only be ensured by few people with increased risk of claims.

@Criggie you can only go to floors 2 and 3 while 1 and 4 are locked? On regular days, do people take the lift for or two floors?

@Michaelcomelately I try fire exits in every hotel or building we stay in China. Once door locked behind me, lower floors had no light, no hand rails, lots of rubbish, and locked doors. Banged door till some security freed me. Fire safety been horrible in 2008, '12, '15. But in '23 all escapes I tried were free and I could get out.

Paul H

23:18

re: insuring bikes

In the US, homeowner's or renter's insurance generally covers those left of bikes (and other high-value items). Given how cheapo renters insurance is and the fact that mortgage companies require homeowners' insurance, I can't imagine a scenario where taking out a policy for a bike makes any sense.

gschenk

Weirdest place was brand new hotel in Sichuan. No lights, no rails, stair height changed arbitrarily, two floors suddenly had only half-width stairs with precipitous drop from landing to where the stair ought to be.

Criggie

@gschenk is 1 a prime number or not ? The door access conrtrollers were wedged, needed a reboot

@gschenk Another relevant point is breakdown insurance. Locally the AA has started covering ebikes for members. They didn't used to cover breakdown on normal bikes but that's now covered, as well as owned scooters. (not rental scooters)

aa.co.nz/membership/bikes

Criggie

23:40

Turns out I'm wrong - 1 is not a prime number.

> Throughout history, many mathematicians considered 1 to be a prime number although that is not now a commonly held view.

Paul H

Yeah I think the rationale is that prime numbers have exactly 2 divisors. The number 1 only has 1 divisor.

gschenk

@Criggie it is not. A prime number is divisible by only two factors 1 and itself. 1 had only one factor 1.

Criggie

yeah its a quibble over definitions. But it made our door controller problem more interesting :)

I mean, by some reading 1 is prime - it is divisible by 1 and by itself. They just happen to be the same number.

gschenk

However, that definition is a little misleading. Prime numbers are defined that way, and not differently, because the ancients didn't see 1 as a prime number.

Criggie

totally

people build entire careers of such esoteric points.

gschenk

23:45

They didn't really consider it a number, for being unity.

Criggie

Why are there no negative prime numbers ?

didn't zero only become a concept in the west in the 13th century ?

the idea of "there aren't any" and "zero" were somehow different

Paul H

i swear this getting back to bikes --- this debate came up when my last job moved offices. a geologist told me the access code to the bike storage room was all the prime numbers on the key pad. 2-3-5-7 didn't work. Interrogated further, they meant all odd numbers (1-3-5-7-9)

gschenk

@Criggie well, you need a definition. "We all know what a prime number is" doesn't get you far.

Paul H

-2 has four possible divisors: (-2, 1) & (-1, 2)

gschenk

Nah, that doesn't work, you can apply the save argument to positive 2.

Prime numbers are a sub set of natural numbers. So no negatives.

Paul H

23:51

ohhh good point

gschenk

We just had similar arguments at work.

And I blundered into it. "let's have a prime numbers count-down 5-3-2-1 (sic!)"

Fibonacci numbers count down is also fun: half the people count a second 1 cause we tend to think of the series.

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