The Whiteboard

Aaron Hall

12:00 AM

It's a different process!

PreferenceBean

my salmon was beautiful btw

Aaron Hall

If it were my process, it would be pretty simple, wouldn't it!

PreferenceBean

@JimmyHoffa oh don't rehash it :(

Aaron Hall

ok, I'm late for dinner

bye!!!

PreferenceBean

ciao benito

Ixrec

12:01 AM

seems weird that you're using an API to generate a file which can't be bothered to give you any supported mechanism for knowing when the file is done generating...

that's all I got out of the chat logs

PreferenceBean

whole thing is presumably a hack

I'm not so bothered about that

Ixrec

well, it's not our problem

PreferenceBean

as that's pretty bog-standard software development too :D

@Ixrec we're a family!

Ixrec

@PreferenceBean that's why we went through the trouble of explaining how bad his question was instead of merely downvoting it =)

PreferenceBean

@Ixrec heehee

nah I'd have given up on SO by now

family or not

Jimmy Hoffa

12:04 AM

@AaronHall then I'm hands off. If it was same process I'd say you should be synchronizing threads, different processes doing synchronization is all you

Ixrec

chat rooms are low volume, easier to give each one properattention

PreferenceBean

yeah plus I have no problem really if someone doesn't make it Q&A format, in here

though obviously a poorly-thought-out problem isn't going to get very far regardless of how you ask for help with it ;p

Jimmy Hoffa

@PreferenceBean I do, that statement wasn't formed as a question or answer, flag

PreferenceBean

@JimmyHoffa IRTA something else

nearly did flag

the world's changed since you went missing and people don't say that kind of thing to each other any more

Jimmy Hoffa

there's an 'l' in there; I'm a bit odd but near as I can figure I'm not actually an arsehole

PreferenceBean

12:06 AM

hah

tempted to flag that

oh look I missed and hit the star instead

oh well

Ixrec

the only times I've ever hit the flag button were all misclicks

PreferenceBean

sure

Jimmy Hoffa

It's been quite some time for me

(don't think I've ever misclicked)

Ixrec

no one says anything offensive in here

ever

PreferenceBean

yes they do

Ixrec

12:08 AM

I see what you did there

PreferenceBean

ta

yeah I haven't flagged anything for a while. actually, come to think of it, I don't think I've had to flag anything since I left The Lounge....heh

Jimmy Hoffa

I don't honestly recall the reasons I've flagged things, but it's happened a couple times. This room developed over time. It was quite some time ago when I last did.

PreferenceBean

did someone say scotch and coffee were terrible?

or Happy Tea Day?

Jimmy Hoffa

I just love the 2 stars on this comment I just dredged up:

Sep 27 '12 at 14:11, by RegDwighт

Yannis is always so offensive. Sigh.

PreferenceBean

Classic Yannis

Aaron Hall

12:29 AM

ok, I'm back, I tested my idea about moving the file on the way home, and it moved, no error. sigh

PreferenceBean

2 hours ago, by PreferenceBean

Well I think you're back to defining "done writing the file". Honestly, you have to define the problem before you can reliably solve it

one of these days you'll listen to me ;p

Aaron Hall

I checked out the end of the extract file, it binary stuff that was repeated earlier in the file

enderland

wow facebook lets you "send money" apparently.... what could possibly go wrong

PreferenceBean

ok so look for patterns in write timings

perhaps you can use the last modified time of the file to your advantage

though that's not exactly a scientific solution, it sounds like you have very few options

Ixrec

30 mins ago, by Ixrec

seems weird that you're using an API to generate a file which can't be bothered to give you any supported mechanism for knowing when the file is done generating...

PreferenceBean

12:32 AM

@enderland oh my

the bubble's bursting isn't it

the investors are like "wait your company is valued at $1bn .... but where is it"

realising once again that social media won't make money in the long run

Aaron Hall

I want to know why I'm the one responsible for Tableau's API.

PreferenceBean

so let's add commercialisation in-app! next thing you know everybody stops using it and you just hastened your own demise

and the only people left are the phishers and bots

enderland

that can happen ASAP as far as I'm concerned

PreferenceBean

@AaronHall You're responsible for your need to interact with it

But nobody's blaming you for that being difficult

enderland

companies like Google enhance my life, continually. facebook? I feel like everything they do is a detriment, not an enhancement

Ixrec

12:33 AM

because none of us know why you're using this API or what you're using it for or how it works

PreferenceBean

^ and that

it also strikes me that if there is an API, and this isn't a function of it, you shouldn't be doing it

Ixrec

^

Aaron Hall

We don't always give a lot of context, but I've given more context than I usually could give since Tableau's SDK is out there for free downloads.

PreferenceBean

@enderland it was great fun a decade ago

omg a decade

wtf

enderland

yeah... a decade. of facebook. wat

PreferenceBean

12:37 AM

I wonder what actual date I signed up

it was around this time

of year

Ixrec

I can't even remember. I never actually used that account for more than a few weeks I think because everyone I knew irl did all their social interaction with me irl, and everyone I knew online did their social interaction with me in chat rooms or forums.

PreferenceBean

and because of this stupid fucking ridiculous "pagination by scrolling" bullshit, the volume of posts I make per year means it'd take me three more decades to get to the bottom of my "Activity Log" page to find out, even with the "jump to 2006" option (because that takes you to December 2006, naturally)

Ixrec

it's called "infinite scrolling"

psr

@Ixrec apt

Ixrec

UX jargon is often apt

apparently designers are much better at naming things than us programmers

PreferenceBean

12:45 AM

@Ixrec it's called "crap"

psr

@Ixrec fetchNewOnListExhaustion

PreferenceBean

finally made it to the bottom AND IT DOESN'T SAY

Ixrec

also it's one of the features we can do at work only with the new-fangled tech so it comes up in the UX upgrade initiatives

user55340

It is a difference between browsing and searching. And most people aren't doing the later.

PreferenceBean

however, first activity 7th Feb (I was tagged in something) so let's go with that

that's insane

enderland

12:46 AM

@PreferenceBean you can go to a specific month, too

user55340

2

Q: Find a years-old comment in Facebook (given certain details)

So I'm trying to plan a vacation with my family, and I'm considering Belize (bear with me, I know this is not Travel.SE). I have "On This Day" turned on in Facebook, and coincidentally, on Monday, the feature showed me a post from many years ago (i.e. Jan 18th, 20XX) where a FB friend I had at ...

enderland

I apparently joined Facebook June 17, 2006. So... not quite 10 years. But pretty close

arg 1 upvote away from repcapping on Workplace today

user55340

3

Q: How to display my timeline of only a particular month in the past?

I want to check everything I posted a particular month many years ago. I could scroll down all the way, but scrolling all these years takes forever and makes my browser really slow. How to show my timeline only for a particular month, for instance December 2009?

facebook facebook-timeline

PreferenceBean

@enderland not on Activity Log you can't

@enderland how did you find that :/

enderland

@PreferenceBean sure you can, but you have to scroll down an unknown amount (and hide the top of your page)

PreferenceBean

12:50 AM

@enderland You're talking about the Timeline. Not the Activity Log.

enderland

oh. I can't keep track of all the terms :P

user55340

25

Q: Better way to search the Facebook activity log / timeline?

I'm trying to find a post I made on my timeline (aka wall) several months (or even years) ago, but can't find a way to search for it. I see there's a way to download my entire content, but that's very heavy. Currently, I open the activity log (e.g., https://www.facebook.com/username/allactivity...

facebook search facebook-timeline

PreferenceBean

well it says them right there on the page :P

enderland

man, today really feels like war against bad questions. they just. keep. coming.

and you can't shoot offscreen to reload

Ixrec

interestingly, a lot of them are getting more than 4 downvotes

usually the dvs stop at -4 for obvious reasons

PreferenceBean

1:01 AM

you guys should change the site name or something

user55340

@Ixrec When they're that bad...

enderland

yeah when it's a 100% chance of a blatant homework dump :(

user55340

@PreferenceBean yawn - you know the answer. Go persuade Shog.

user55340

Trying to tell us to change the name is not at all productive. We can't.

user55340

And you know it.

user55340

1:03 AM

@JörgWMittag hey there. Thank you for those close and what I suspect are your speedy delete votes on the onslaught we've been getting.

PreferenceBean

two second pings. awesome.

enderland

@Ixrec I just made a pretty big edit to this question you VTC'ed, perhaps you want to reconsider? :)

PreferenceBean

Tracing route to google.com [216.58.213.174]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

  1    <1 ms    <1 ms    <1 ms  routerlogin.net [192.168.0.1]
  2     *        *        *     Request timed out.
  3     8 ms     8 ms     8 ms  nott-core-2a-xe-822-0.network.virginmedia.net [6
2.255.214.225]
  4     *        *        *     Request timed out.
  5     *        *        *     Request timed out.
  6   766 ms    14 ms    18 ms  teln-ic-2-ae1-0.network.virginmedia.net [212.250
.14.146]
  7  2084 ms    29 ms    17 ms  72.14.195.202

Jörg W Mittag

@MichaelT putsiceontriggerfinger

enderland

some other folks also VTC'ed it too

PreferenceBean

1:05 AM

customer support guy last week just didn't help at all. obsessed over speedtest.net results.

enderland

@JörgWMittag need to replace the barrels of the anti-noob machine guns?

PreferenceBean

"so you can see sir ur speed is fine"

I wanted to closevote him

user55340

The best ISP support I had was when Speakeasy.net was my provider.

user55340

When they started out they had a sysadmin package (you do the installs, we don't even bother sending someone out to fix things for you - just give you the hardware you need). There was a gaming package (we'll charge a few extra $$, but route you through a different network that's closer to blizzard servers)

PreferenceBean

even tried to blame one of my PCs for it and asked for remote access to "change some settings"

user55340

1:08 AM

The one time I did have a problem, I called them up and said "these are my ping times" and they were "yep, you're right... let me fix that..." and I was off the phone in less than 10 minutes.

PreferenceBean

the more I think about it, the more I realise how frakked up that call was

I think my ISP is trying to tell me something. 1:08am and early start. Hmm.

Ixrec

@enderland since OP has accepted the answer that only answers #1 and #2, your removal of #3 and #4 seems fine and the question is now an answerable one without the "what does this random made up word mean?" and the "too many questions per question" problems, so yes I've retracted

user55340

web.archive.org/web/20010413223727/http://www.speakeasy.net/low/…

enderland

@Ixrec :)

user55340

The sysadmin package came with static IP addresses.

user55340

1:09 AM

> Fan of Open Source? Want to run your own servers? We give you SysAdmin -- static IPs, up to 200MB of disk space, 30 hours of dial-up, and an opt-in Speakeasy Open Source Newsletter.

Jörg W Mittag

I'm a bit reluctant to use the "we don't do debugging" close reason because it mentions SO. Most of those are not only off-topic but also utter crap, but I fear that the mere mention of SO would lead to them just dumping their identical crap over there, blatantly ignoring the mention of MCVE etc. in that close reason. Has any of you actually observed that happening?

PreferenceBean

It would be hard to tell

enderland

@JörgWMittag quite a few of those folks are banned at SO... not sure how many, but definitely a few are

PreferenceBean

It's not as if you can spot a specific question flying past on the SO front pages

There's just too much of it.

user55340

@JörgWMittag Most of the time it gets caught in the VLQ filter that SO has and can deal with better. The thresholds are different here vs there.

user55340

1:10 AM

There are posts that you can post here that SO's filters won't let through.

Ixrec

true, if anything we're just giving their spam filter more training data

PreferenceBean

@enderland I honestly don't understand why they think the obvious solution is to do the exact same thing here. How much brainpower does it really take to stop and think "huh I should do something differently next time". And these people make space rockets!! Sigh.

Jörg W Mittag

@PreferenceBean I can remember a time where I read every single SO question, and it didn't even take up much of my time :-D

enderland

@PreferenceBean one of the times today someone reposted their question asking why it was deleted... :(

PreferenceBean

@JörgWMittag 1975?

@enderland Mad innit

Like literally how can someone be that stupid

enderland

1:12 AM

Well SE is a different format from forums

PreferenceBean

Then naturally it becomes about "being mean to the beginners" when in fact it has nothing whatsoever to do with them being new at the language/technology

Ixrec

they deserve a human explaining to them what they were supposed to do differently

PreferenceBean

@Ixrec Sure but then ask what you're supposed to do differently

enderland

speaking of "great" questions.... programmers.stackexchange.com/q/310815/52929

PreferenceBean

Don't just do it again

Ixrec

1:13 AM

even though there are more of those crap questions then there are active humans on the site to explain these things that the help center already does

enderland

> I need the code badly, please help me

user55340

Occasionally we've gotten SE to poke at the user trends for specific posts, and they've tried to post on SO, and then given up when they've either been rate limited or the quality filter didn't let them through, or as gnat likes to point out that if you have "Help" or "problem" in the title you can't post it.

PreferenceBean

anyone else notice the cursor over the submit button in the closevote dialog briefly turns to a "DO NOT ENTER" cursor when you click it? just before the dialog closes?

Ixrec

@enderland this is the sort of thing that gets a downvote from me without even trying to read the rest

PreferenceBean

only today, maybe yesterday

Jörg W Mittag

1:14 AM

@PreferenceBean Haha, I wasn't born then. During the closed beta, obviously, and also a short time after that. Then it became "scan all titles, read all interesting ones", then "read all ruby questions", then "scan all ruby titles, read all interesting ones", now it's just "scan the ruby frontpage in the hopes that I happen to spot one that isn't utter crap."

Ixrec

my experience in my short time here is roughly similar, except I've gone one step farther to "hang out in chat all day and occasionally go be a janitor if I'm in a good mood"

enderland

@Ixrec reminds me of the "why can't people google anymore" question someone linked here once

Jörg W Mittag

Which more than often failed.

enderland

@JörgWMittag I gave up on SO in my language of expertise..

PreferenceBean

in fact I just spotted it on the "Submit Comment" button too

kinda annoying

Ixrec

1:16 AM

I never seriously tried SO because I'm not even close to the level of expertise in C++ or Javascript where I could actually benefit the site in any way

user55340

@Ixrec You haven't gotten to the delete vote therapy yet?

Ixrec

there are far too many people who've memorized every word of the standards and can recite them on a moment's notice

@MichaelT delete vote therapy is being a janitor

user55340

@Ixrec people-management - you know you want to.

Ixrec

but it can't be therapy if I can't do it on 90% of the crap I see

ok that works

user55340

Every question is closed.

user55340

1:18 AM

And if you see something that would be a good blog post...

Ixrec

I have no idea what would be a good blog post tbh

user55340

27

Q: How to Make Sure Your Company Doesn't Go Underwater If Your Programmers Win the Lottery

I have a few programmers under me, they are all doing very great and very smart obviously. Thank you very much. But the problem is that each and every one of them is responsible for one core area, which no one else on the team have foggiest idea on what it is. This means that if anyone of them i...

people-management

user55340

^^ Ok blog post seed.

PreferenceBean

0

Q: Mouse cursor briefly becomes "no entry" sign when clicking on SE action buttons

I don't know whether this just started or perhaps it's actually something new in my browser, but it must come down to SE code ultimately and I've never noticed it before today/yesterday. Submit a comment via the "Add Comment" button, or submit a close-vote, or post a question, or do anything rea...

bug user-interface action-buttons

Ixrec

the subjects that are terrible for questions are also the ones I have nothing meaningful to say about beyond the blindingly obvious

user55340

1:19 AM

@Ixrec If you think something interesting can be written about it... not necessarily by you.

user55340

At Employer^^ the team kept the manager in a constant state of fear by buying "pick 3" lottery tickets based on on the build number at the end of the day.

Ixrec

rofl

honestly I'm not even sure what I'd do if I won the lottery

enderland

@MichaelT this is hilarious. I've heard of people (and managers) playing in office lottery pools as insurance -- against the rest of the team winning...

user55340

Note that this isn't a big lottery. Get all 3 right in exact order is $500 on a $1 ticket.

user55340

@enderland Gambling was against company policy. They could find a new manager without too much difficulty. Finding another development team... they look the other way.

Ixrec

1:22 AM

the closest thing we had at my place was betting on football teams when the world cup was happening

enderland

@MichaelT yeah, but if you were a manager of a team of 10 that were all in on a pool for the powerball? you'd want to play for insurance against your entire team leaving :)

Ixrec

@MichaelT does this mean you were paid more than the manager? =)

user55340

wilottery.com/lottogames/pick3info.aspx -- we did get some of the low value ones.

user55340

@Ixrec Nope. But they can easily have a team lead from some team move up... even if they don't know anything (promote from within). But they have to find college students (or long term unemployed programmers) who don't know better to fill those ranks.

user55340

SLS team lead was made the manager of the intranet team... messed that up... moved over to team lead in another department afterwards. Director of web services didn't meet some quota, was made manager of android development with 5 people reporting to him.

user55340

1:25 AM

Middle management was fairly consistently shuffled around. Easy to move up. Easy to move down.

Ixrec

sounds a bit pointless

user55340

@Ixrec Yep. Most people knew getting a team lead position was one of those "you'll never write code again if you stay in this path." While I was there three team leads stepped down so they could get out of the politics and back to actually writing code.

user55340

(one stepped 'down' into another company)

user55340

wait... two.

Ixrec

that's exactly the impression I get from talking to my current team lead, and why I'm very keen on not going into that role

he even volunteered to do part of bug week for the guy who's out just because that'd give him an excuse to fiddle with the real code for once

PreferenceBean

1:29 AM

night kids

Ixrec

night

user55340

This is a place where the owner fired his nephew and heir apparent to the company when said nephew accepted wedding gifts from people that were in his management chain.

PreferenceBean

(that you're a kid. bad joke)

Aaron Hall

"Because the answer can be found elsewhere on the Internet" is not a valid close reason, folks, nor has it ever been. Find a better reason, or stop voting to close. — Robert Harvey 10 hours ago

PreferenceBean

anyway yeah bye

enderland

1:30 AM

@Ixrec many people just blindly assume that "success" is directly proportional to some managementy thing. It's kind of weird how much more "socially praised" it is to be a manager of say 5 people than it is to be an expert senior engineer

Ixrec

for some definition of "social"

obviously we live in a social world where most managers do not rank highly

enderland

@Ixrec I'm thinking of outside the engineering world and more general. people you meet randomly

Ixrec

(though I will continue to claim that our business manager is very good at his job)

I don't really meet people randomly

Aaron Hall

One day I'll manage a team of programmers and it will be glorious.

user55340

When I moved to silly valley, I overhead a conversation between two young managers and their mentor. The young managers were complaining that some of their engineers were paid more than they were. The mentor said "make sure you keep it that way."

Ixrec

1:32 AM

@AaronHall then one day you'll realize everyone on that team knows ten times more than you do about everything because you're too busy being stuck in meetings all day

user55340

The issue is that most places don't understand programmers... we want to go and code.

user55340

In most other career paths you are a line worker, then foreman, than supervisor, then manager, then director... put in your time and you get there. Thus manager is looked up upon as someone who did their job.

Ixrec

the competent programmers anyway, since those tend to be the passionate ones

user55340

> 6.3

A manager was about to be fired, but a programmer who worked for him wrote a new program that became popular and sold well. As a result, the manager retained his job.

The manager tried to give the programmer a bonus, but the programmer refused it, saying, "I wrote the program because I thought it was an interesting concept, and thus I expect no reward."

The manager upon hearing this remarked, "This programmer, though he holds a position of small esteem, understands well the proper duty of an employee. Let us promote him to the exalted position of management consultant!"

Aaron Hall

I know such programmers and they still get to program.

enderland

1:34 AM

I'm kind of feeling this again, today was one of the first times in a long, long while I was able to sit at an IDE for hours... I love it

user55340

(From The Tao of Programming)

Aaron Hall

my own boss gets to program

Ixrec

he is a lucky man

enderland

my boss does not. but he has self admittedly said he only went into management when people problems became more interesting than technical ones

Ixrec

neat

Aaron Hall

1:38 AM

we have a daily 30 minute meeting blocked out, which we typically spend about 7 minutes on. He and I are the only ones sitting. :D

Ixrec

I can't really imagine that ever happening to me personally, the people problems I know my team lead deals with sound merely infuriating and pointless

enderland

I can see myself wanting to do that eventually (go figure), but... doing something feels so much more meaningful and interesting. with any sort of technical work, you have a "finished" product - with people... meh

user55340

@enderland you know you want to write on that topic...

Aaron Hall

I'll write!

enderland

@MichaelT :)

user55340

1:46 AM

And then you get into fun with "fractional bus numbers"

enderland

the reality is, at a certain point, if you aren't big enough you pretty much do get destroyed if everyone quits all at the same time

user55340

You've got 2 people who are necessary for 3 projects - where if either of them leave the project will not go. That's a bus number of 2/3.

user55340

@AaronHall Grab a topic and write.

enderland

github.com/the-whiteboard/the-whiteboard.github.io

no one-boxing for github links? sad

user55340

@enderland btw, I did some work on the author attribution on the index and post page.

user55340

1:48 AM

@enderland amusingly, the blog gets one boxed nicely when feeds posts it.

user55340

Aaron Hall

"It was a dark and stormy night. Here's a listicle of ways to create value with Python"

user55340

Its configured in _data/authors.yml

enderland

@MichaelT that's neat

user55340

The full change: github.com/the-whiteboard/the-whiteboard.github.io/commit/…

user55340

1:50 AM

It uses the author attribute in the page, not the person who committed it.

user55340

It let me take the author out of the post title.

enderland

heh I don't even know how to login to gravatar anymore to get that :)

user55340

@enderland View image: gravatar.com/avatar/…

enderland

ah. that works

aww dangit you're going to get me writing stuff now

user55340

Btw, running Jekyll locally is really neat for getting things looking proper.

user55340

1:57 AM

Heh - sale at snorg tees: snorgtees.com/t-shirts/accio-coffee

user55340

enderland

@MichaelT Jekyll has... only a few dependencies? hhaaha

user55340

@JimmyHoffa snorgtees.com/catalogsearch/result/?q=coffee&x=0&y=0

user55340

@enderland Yep. But the neat part is the "launch it, use --draft and put them in drafts, and work from there.

enderland

@MichaelT oh it pulls drafts too if you give it that? sweet

user55340

1:59 AM

> Regenerating: 2 file(s) changed at 2016-02-21 17:39:10 ...done in 0.114834 seconds.
Regenerating: 1 file(s) changed at 2016-02-21 17:39:53 ...done in 0.099712 seconds.
Regenerating: 2 file(s) changed at 2016-02-21 17:40:56 ...done in 0.262619 seconds.
Regenerating: 1 file(s) changed at 2016-02-21 17:41:10 ...done in 0.131931 seconds.
Regenerating: 1 file(s) changed at 2016-02-21 17:41:23 ...done in 0.134201 seconds.

user55340

@enderland jekyll serve --drafts

enderland

oh neat. that's really cool - way better than our internal blog. lol

user55340

Yep.

user55340

And since my local copy is running in --drafts, and github's isn't... can put anything in drafts and it will render those.

enderland

yeah. that's what I was thinking - it's super awesome to render what it looks like "live"

user55340

2:00 AM

Github has what appears to be a CI server for Jekyll pages.

user55340

Every time I've pushed the file, the site has been updated before I've been able to go over and click reload on the page.

user55340

~/Wh/the-whiteboard.github.io (master u=) $ jekyll serve --drafts
Configuration file: /Users/shagie/Whiteboard/the-whiteboard.github.io/_config.yml
            Source: /Users/shagie/Whiteboard/the-whiteboard.github.io
       Destination: /Users/shagie/Whiteboard/the-whiteboard.github.io/_site
 Incremental build: disabled. Enable with --incremental
      Generating...
                    done in 0.336 seconds.
 Auto-regeneration: enabled for '/Users/shagie/Whiteboard/the-whiteboard.github.io'
Configuration file: /Users/shagie/Whiteboard/the-whiteboard.github.io/_config.yml

enderland

do you have a client you use for markdown on OS:X?

user55340

@enderland Currently using vim. Gotta go tinker with BBEdit.

enderland

yeah, I was using vim but.. was trying to decide if I wanted to keep with that :)

user55340

2:04 AM

I would suspect Atom isn't bad.

Ixrec

I should probably fiddle with Sublime or Atom someday. But I've just never heard of any specific features that would be a productivity gain for me. Everyone always talks about them in vaguely positive terms or as lists of plugins.

user55340

Ha! BBEdit, you're showing your age...

user55340

enderland

@Ixrec I've got sublime at work, have been trying to learn to use it... one of those things that getting REALLY good with one editor is better than marginally using a lot, I think

Aaron Hall

sublime

user55340

2:14 AM

... and that's what I get for not updating in awhile.

user55340

The "oh, there's a git menu now"

enderland

I'm going to force myself to use command line git until I understand git completely

so basically, forever

user55340

Other than the bisect and similar... I'm ok with a good gui git client.

user55340

I'll probably buy a copy of Tower for those situations where you want to see things a bit better.

enderland

I do have a copy of tower still, it's great for git (especially if you are a git noob)

user55340

2:17 AM

And when working in intellij, the git issues + tracking in the IDE... its worth it.

enderland

I think that doing command line helps learn and understand the paradigm though, Tower sort of let me hack around actually groking git

user55340

Issues become tasks within the IDE. Create a task, it creates an issue.

user55340

And then the association of files with change sets within the IDE... its beautiful.

user55340

2:20 AM

The switching branches is done on the bottom. Just select the branch and it changes.

Jörg W Mittag

@MichaelT: I just stumbled across the blog in the starred posts in the sidebar. Nice job! I liked the 5 languages piece.

user55340

@JörgWMittag Thank you!

user55340

Its fun writing those opinionated pieces that I can't write/answer on the main site.

Jörg W Mittag

Coincidentally, I recently picked up a toy project I had started a couple of years ago.

user55340

I've got all the current topics I've thought of in the issues for the project... being able to have people add them makes it... accessible.

Jörg W Mittag

2:25 AM

joergwmittag.github.io/lambdaconscarcdr

user55340

It was awkward to try to get people to write for the P.blogoverflow site.

Jörg W Mittag

Implementing Lisp-style cons lists without using any data structures, purely with lambdas, in as many languages as I could think of.

I'm up to 33.

It's just a handful of lines each, but real fun :-D

user55340

(either a "I don't know what to write about" or "I need to go over the top in quality" or "this needs to be checked by someone first...")

Jörg W Mittag

Yeah, "officialness" can be intimidating.

user55340

As I mentioned, I was inspired by Room15 from SO.

enderland

2:27 AM

we all have really weird definitions of "fun" :-)

Jörg W Mittag

@enderland The last couple of days it started getting to a point where the hardest part was getting some sort of interpreter or compiler up and running to actually test the code I had written. Once I got that, usually the code worked on the first or second try, code I had written in a language, I didn't even know existed an hour before.

enderland

Like I said, weird definitions of fun ;)

enderland is working on a blog post for a programmers chat room blog on a Monday night

guess that applies to me too :)

Jörg W Mittag

But the ones which are farther away from traditional Lisp/FP give me trouble. E.g. I never got the Erlang version to work, for example. Erlang is kinda hard to write if you don't actually know it :-D

@enderland Yep. ;-)

brew install erlang … once again.

enderland

I like how many of us use macs. lol

user55340

@enderland Its unix underpinnings without the fuss of trying to keep Linux running.

enderland

2:36 AM

yup. don't have to convince me :)

Jörg W Mittag

It's an accident, actually. I was on Ubuntu, mostly, then my laptop died. After spending days studying different configurations of HPs, Toshibas, Dells, Fujitsus, Lenovos, … I just went and ordered an MBP knowing full well that I was overpaying, but also knowing full well that I would get a nice machine. And the OS, well, it's sufficiently Unixy for my needs.

user55340

(btw, I had A/UX for that centris 650...)

user55340

A/UX

A/UX was Apple Computer’s implementation of the Unix operating system for some of their Macintosh computers. A/UX requires a 68k-based Macintosh with an FPU and a paged memory management unit (PMMU), and various versions run on the Macintosh II, SE/30, Quadra and Centris series of machines. A/UX was first released in 1988, with the final version of 3.1.1 released in 1995. Described by InfoWorld as "an open systems solution with the Macintosh at its heart", the operating system is based on UNIX System V Release 2.2. It includes some additional features from System V Releases 3 and 4 and BSD versions...

Jörg W Mittag

Plus, it allows me to converge on one OS for my other passion (live sound engineering, recording, and playing drums).

enderland

@JörgWMittag yeah. I love Apple Mac hardware

user55340

2:37 AM

@JörgWMittag {pendant}It is Unix. It's even certified as such.{/pendant}

Jörg W Mittag

Before that, it was Ubuntu for everything, and Windows for music.

user55340

61

A: Is Mac OS X UNIX?

Mac OS X has been certified as Unix by The Open Group from 10.5 onward: 10.11 (El Capitan) 10.10 (Yosemite) 10.9 (Mavericks) 10.8 (Mountain Lion) 10.6 (Snow Leopard) 10.5 (Leopard) Apple's page on The Open Group site only lists the current version of OS X as I write this, and in the past it o...

Jörg W Mittag

Yeah, I know. But you don't interact with it as much, and typical OSX apps don't follow Unix guidelines, really.

What I mean is: you don't normally use it as a Unix, but it's there, when you want to.

user55340

Exactly why I like it that way.

Jörg W Mittag

as such

Me too.

enderland

2:40 AM

my work machine is a mac for that reason

Jörg W Mittag

I tried to convey my thought process then, as a die-hard Linux user ;-)

user55340

Btw, that 5 languages thing... I was amused and pleased to learn that the 6502 is very much alive and kicking.

user55340

And quite possibly keeping people alive and kicking (its used in life support equipment)

Jörg W Mittag

Embedded is the dark web of CPUs.

There are more 8-bit MCUs sold each year, than Intel and AMD together have sold in their entire company history. Or something like that. I forgot the exact numbers, but it's huuuuuge (as that ferret-wearing comedian currently spoofing the US primaries would say).

enderland

@JörgWMittag do you really not do programming/dev for your job?

Jörg W Mittag

2:56 AM

@enderland Currently, I'm doing mostly live sound engineering and playing drums in cover bands, yes. Some odd programming on the side.

user55340

Microwave Ivory Soap - Cool Science Experiment

►

user55340

I am not responsible for what happens to your microwave.

enderland

@MichaelT I just pushed a really crappy draft to my fork... so you won't be the only one writing :)

user55340

3:11 AM

@enderland Whenever you're ready, merge it to master.

enderland

ya still have to edit and finish :)

Duga

3:46 AM

At this site, we're a bunch of programmers helping each other write code. If you're developing, welcome! (Share some code or ask a coding question!) I'm not sure the people who can answer this want to use this site to answer it. Good luck! — BaldEagle 47 secs ago

Duga

4:04 AM

This question is off-topic here, as it has nothing to do with programming or programmers tools. This is a server related issue. It is probably better suited for one of the *nix sites (Ask Ubuntu or Unix & Linux) or Server Fault instead. (Not downvoting, although I did vote to close as off-topic.) — Ken White 49 secs ago

Jimmy Hoffa

4:15 AM

@enderland emacs in spaaaace is great :)

@JörgWMittag erlang definitely takes a bit of playing to get an idea for, why's your erlang one broken? Just didn't get it right or erlang changed?

@JörgWMittag no prolog cons/car/cdr?

Jörg W Mittag

@JimmyHoffa That's what I meant about languages farther away from traditional Lisp giving me trouble. Prolog doesn't even have functions, lambdas or closures. I wouldn't know where to begin. I spent some time googling, and found out that there are several competing approaches how to implement something lambda-like as a library. But really, it feels like Prolog might not be the right language for this. After all, implementing lists with lambdas kinda requires lambdas.

Jimmy Hoffa

@JörgWMittag ah I see what you're doing. Yeah, higher order functions are kind of a necessity at the language level to do what you're talking about. It's easy enough in prolog, I just don't know that prolog has higher order functions.. I mean, hmm

did you do R?

R does have higher order functions and lambdas

Jörg W Mittag

I meant to. I forgot. Thanks for reminding me :-D

Jimmy Hoffa

something like kons <- function(hd, tl) { function(p) { ifelse(p, hd, tl) } }

Jörg W Mittag

4:30 AM

I'm still struggling with the basic syntax of Erlang.

Jimmy Hoffa

(off the top of my head...)

yeah, it's strange, it borrows a ton from prolog for syntax but just about nothing of the semantics

Jörg W Mittag

I have Octave, which is mostly a superset of Matlab and has some similarities to R.

Jimmy Hoffa

it's definitely unique, always makes me have to check myself when trying to meddle with erlang

Jörg W Mittag

Well, it started off as a library for distributed programming in Prolog, and the original VM was implemented in Prolog, so that's not surprising.

Jimmy Hoffa

really? I never knew that. Neat

Jörg W Mittag

4:34 AM

Ericsson had a couple of languages before that, but all of them had some problems, because none of them were language designers. That time, they said to themselves, this time we're not doing a language!

Worked out well, didn't it? :-D

Jimmy Hoffa

quick google gives me this valid anonymous function syntax for R (function(x) x * 10)(10)

@JörgWMittag hah funny how that worked out

Jörg W Mittag

Also, 15 years after Erlang, Joe Armstrong did his Master's Thesis under one of the inventors of the Actor Model … which was the first time that he or any one from the team had ever heard of it.

Convergent Evolution at its finest.

I have Elixir, does that count as Erlang? ;-)

Might do LFE as well.

Jörg W Mittag

5:21 AM

(defun kons (hd tl)
  (lambda (x)
    (if x hd tl)))

(defun virst (l) (funcall l 'true ))
(defun rrest (l) (funcall l 'false))

(set lstt (kons 1 (kons 2 ())))

(virst (rrest lstt))

Jörg W Mittag

5:47 AM

kons <- function(hd, tl=NULL)
  function(x) if (x) hd else tl

virst <- function(l) l(TRUE )
rrest <- function(l) l(FALSE)

lstt <- kons(1, kons(2))

virst(rrest(lstt))

Jörg W Mittag

6:12 AM

Okay, this is embarrassing. The Erlang version has been broken for over 5 years, because … I forgot the ends.

Duga

8:07 AM

Questions that ask "where do I start" are typically too broad and are not a good fit for this site. People have their own method for approaching the problem and because of this there cannot be a correct answer. Give a good read over Where to Start, then address your post. — Ferrybig 25 secs ago

PreferenceBean

8:26 AM

enderland

12:46 PM

I edited this question to make it a bit better - programmers.stackexchange.com/q/310826/52929 - has quite a few votes on it now

PreferenceBean

Yeah it's better

Though it was fine to begin with

Thomas Owens

At a corporate-wide survey last year, "management communication" was a very low ranked (relatively) item. Yesterday, at lunch time, CNBC reported that Honeywell was in talks to acquire the company. Since then, no one from management at any level has mentioned anything on the intranet or via email. And then they wonder why people complain about communication from higher management about the state of the business.

I can understand them not saying anything initially, but they should have had a message ready to go if there was a leak from the discussions (which appears to be what happened, since there was no official comment from either company).

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