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user114359
I was sitting around at work today when I thought up a question. Stack Exchange, specifically @GlenH7 answered my question before I asked it!
 
user114359
25
Q: How fast does solid waste fall in vertical drain pipes?

James JenkinsSome building are really tall, if you flush the toilet and the contents go into a pipe and straight down, there could be a lot of energy, potentially enough to cause harm to the sewer pipe at the end of the fall. I know that in my home, the pipe goes straight down and then there is just a 90 deg...

 
user114359
Stack Exchange... answering the really important questions for humanity!
 
comic strip question is eligible for deletion. Just sayin'
 
user114359
I actually like that graphic, but it is far too broad and discuss this ${blog} for here.
 
user114359
12:12 AM
Hah, +5/-5 too. Don't see that too often.
 
@enderland What did you change? Make it bigger or smaller?
@durron597 I presume it references the book by the same name (not my favorite book, but a very good entrant and one I've referenced on numerous occassions when trying to deal with real implementation stuff)
 
user55340
12:31 AM
@gnat It has a pretty pink background now.
 
Anyone here played thief?
any good?
 
user41796
@Ampt Which version?
 
user55340
(two more down votes on programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/106792/… and it goes away - one on an answer, one on a question)
 
user41796
I played the recent xbox one a bit, but not a lot. It seemed decent enough.
 
user41796
@MichaelT I killed it with one vote instead.
 
user55340
12:41 AM
That works too.
 
PC Version
 
user55340
@enderland reaching out to other groups and people you don't know. Granted, this was a purely social-esque thing rather than work...
 
user55340
One of the guys I played sheepshead with at lunch was moving to Montana. I got an oversized deck of cards (need big cards for a big sky state). Each card was ~10"x~12" - huge.
 
I'm voting to close this question as off-topic because it's not a code question. It's probably more suited to programmers or perhaps cstheory. — Simon MᶜKenzie 34 secs ago
 
user55340
One of the other guys had the idea to get people to sign them. Not that little hallmark card... but an actual card. Signing the 7 of diamonds type thing.
 
user55340
12:44 AM
So, we got it signed and then it was suggested to go to the other people who knew him. He had been around for 10+ years and the other old-timers were asked to sign the cards.
 
user55340
So I went around and got people to sign them. Other teams. Went up to helpdesk and got an introduction to everyone on the team (I was a new guy at 5 months or so at that point)... and some other old timers in other teams.
 
user55340
It was very much a "I have no idea who you are, but Richard over there told me to ask you if you wanted to sign a card for Ben... what card would you like to sign? (pull out the deck... watch them go "ahh!")
 
user55340
Incidentally it got me to know quite a few people in other teams. Useful for the "who should I ask this question of" and I get nods from some of the other old timers in the hallway.
 
user55340
I firmly believe that reaching out to other teams and getting to know them is a key and necessary part of networking within an organization.
 
user55340
If nothing else, it keeps the meetings from getting heated when you know the other person there really is a good guy.
 
user41796
12:50 AM
@Ampt From what I read from the fanatics, they complain that the franchise has lost its way and isn't true to the original games anymore. Take that for what it's worth. I enjoyed playing the bit that I did, but remember futzing with the controls a bit more than I like. The main challenge being that I'd have to remember odd combinations of buttons / whatnot. That's an issue for me since I'm an infrequent player due to that real world thing getting in the way.
 
user41796
@MichaelT there's a lot of truth to that one
 
user55340
The sheepshead group is amusingly representative of the entire department. We've got three programmers - who report to three different managers. Two guys from desktop (making the desktops work right - installs of software, and such), one from the server team, one from the helpdesk/security team... and I forget what team another guy is on.
 
user41796
Effing annoying when you have to hold a contractor in breach of contract. <sigh>
 
user41796
Getting my house painted has been more stress than it would have been for me to just do it myself.
 
1:19 AM
@GlenH7 That's shitty :(
 
user41796
It really is. I sent them a letter last week saying they had till today to complete or they were in breach of the contract. So they finish up the hardest part of what was remaining and completely slough off the easy part.
 
user41796
That really left me at "huh?"
 
Yeah, that's odd.
 
user41796
So I've sent the the "you're in breach of contract" notification and asked them to contact me immediately.
 
user41796
I'd rather they just finish up the project and I'll pay them what we had previously agreed upon. But I can finish the painting if I have to. I just hadn't planned on doing so.
 
user55340
1:38 AM
(sum of diameter of all the planets)/(earth moon distance) = 0.9799 (wolfram alpha)
 
user114359
@MichaelT That can't be right, Jupiter alone is around a gazillion millions across.
 
user55340
 
user41796
@Snowman So that would mean it's about a gazillion miles between the earth and the moon then?
 
user114359
Pictures on the internet don't lie
 
user55340
2:01 AM
Jupiter has a diameter of 88,846 miles. Earth's diameter is just just under 8k miles. The Earth moon distance is 238,900 miles.
 
user55340
(its not about the Stack Overflow question)
 
user55340
It does mention stack overflow though (6:36 min in)
 
user55340
 
user55340
The search was done on August 10th, so that question isn't in the list.
 
user55340
2:09 AM
"scrolling through this is fairly entertaining"
 
user55340
This got laughs:
 
user55340
 
user55340
0
Q: How to free memory using Java Unsafe, using a Java reference?

aranhakkiJava Unsafe class allows you to allocate memory for an object as follows, but using this method how would you free up the memory allocated when finished, as it does not provide the memory address... Field f = Unsafe.class.getDeclaredField("theUnsafe"); //Internal reference f.setAccessibl...

 
user55340
(8:32: "You use Maven, you download half the internet from maven central")
 
user114359
I don't understand why anyone would want to use Unsafe to begin with, unless they want pain.
 
user114359
2:13 AM
@MichaelT that's my experience with Maven, too.
 
user114359
It is like DLL Hell, but on the internet, not windows\system32
 
user55340
@Snowman 5:45 has a list of packages they know to use unsafe.
 
user55340
Akka, Cassandra, Ehcache, Grails, HBase, Hadoop, Hibernate, Jruby, Kafka, Kryo, LMAX, Mockito, Neo4j, Netty, Objenesis Scala, Soar, Spark, Spring (big surprise there), XStream, Zookeeper
 
anyone here understand command blocks in relation to game development?
 
@MichaelT When I read this in my head it sounds like a really weird rap
 
user114359
2:15 AM
I'm doing other stuff, can't watch now. But it doesn't surprise me
 
user55340
@Snowman It does a reasonable job of resolving version conflicts and alerting you to them.
 
user41796
@AshleyNunn It is really weird rap
 
user55340
@GlenH7 Wrappers? Like Integer.class? That doesn't use any unsafe things in it.
 
user114359
@MichaelT can you hear me shaking me head at you through the internet?
 
user55340
@Snowman yep. And the thing is... I know how to do unsafe things with it.
 
2:18 AM
i mean command objects
 
user55340
(11:30 "We will deprecate that unsafe method in that release, and we might even deprecate it with a new even stronger deprecation tag that is even more annoying")
 
user41796
@Robbie Just ask your question. If anyone can help, they will. Asking if anyone knows something about whatever generally doesn't get any sort of a response.
 
user41796
@MichaelT "oooooh! annoying messages!"
 
user55340
@GlenH7 there was laughter after that statement.
 
user114359
It is after 10:00 PM here this is up on the second monitor. I'm glancing over in between killing pixels on the big monitor. If I see something I can contribute, I will: so like Glen said, just ask.
 
user55340
2:21 AM
For those Linq lovers...
 
user55340
And compiler fans...
 
user41796
@Snowman I'm jealous. I'm catching up on emails I should have sent out for scouts instead of blasting pixels
 
user114359
@GlenH7 Normally I have to be halfway responsible. But my wife is out of town so I can pretend to be a bachelor for the week. Pizza and video games!
 
user55340
2:25 AM
Fun things with the generics, type erasure and the type system:
 
user41796
@Snowman Props and enjoy!
 
@Snowman Sounds like a most excellent plan :)
 
3:04 AM
Just checking something...
Is this thing on?
 
user114359
3:21 AM
Yes, the real question is: is anyone listening?
 
9:14 AM
Maybe try Programmers instead. — Filburt 48 secs ago
 
 
3 hours later…
11:51 AM
You know how we were talking about Uber the other day? Uber just killed it again with a new feature: UberPool. You enter your start location and end location and it will try to ride match you with someone going in the same direction. It also gives you a fixed price ride up-front. And if you're going with someone else, that's OK! Every request can be for up to 2 riders. So if you have 2 people going from point A to point C and someone is going from B to C, you can all rideshare to save $$$.
 
@ThomasOwens careful or people will start thinking you are paid to promote it everywhere
 
@ratchetfreak Maybe I should be. It's fairly easy to do, so I could make a quick few bucks.
 
user114359
12:19 PM
@ThomasOwens Careful, Uber is going to die a regulatory death eventually. When it was obscure it was fine, but now it is popular. How can dirty taxis compete with Uber when they require medallions costing between $100k and $500k depending on the city, and Uber does not?
 
@Snowman Well, I'm really hoping the No Boston 2024 people take on transportation. They want to use their supporters and transportation is a pretty big deal here. Gonna go stick it to the man.
 
user114359
@ThomasOwens Never underestimate the influence of money on voting and the power of stupid people (voters) in large numbers.
 
user114359
Yes, I am cynical about this topic. But who knows, it might work.
 
Happy Coffee Day
 
12:58 PM
0
A: In the IEEE/EIA 12207.1-1997 Standard, what does "notation for description" refer to?

Thomas OwensThe short answer to your question is, yes, this "notation for description" is stating your your description documents include a design language and sufficient information for a reader to understand that design language. A complete analysis, based on IEEE Std 1016-2009 IEEE Standard for Informatio...

Boom.
 
@ThomasOwens because real engineers write questions with a dewey decimal system reference in their title
 
@Snowman it'll die a death as soon as more serious problems with it happen that result in liability complaints against uber...
@MichaelT yeah, absolutely!
 
user41796
1:14 PM
would this question fare well on Workplace? I'm changing my mind again as it's about "what are the opportunities" instead of "what should I do?"
 
@GlenH7 yeah questions like that are not very well received since the answer is always "it depends, your situation is unique and you are looking for a list of jobs to apply to"
 
user114359
@enderland All sorts of problems exist and have existed in taxis, including rape and murder. Not to mention severe corruption and regulatory capture. I am not sure what Uber could do that is worse than the long and sordid history of taxis, other than setting off a small nuke from the trunk of one of their cars.
 
@Snowman well I mean the industry is regulated though (yes the problems exist in both places) more heavily
 
user41796
@enderland okay, I'm just going to kill it as too broad
 
@GlenH7 by the time it was actually answerable it'd have to be so specific it's only useful to the OP too, the comments on the question are revealing - "what is your passion?" etc
 
user41796
1:22 PM
> My passion is to MAKE MONEY!!!
 
user114359
Mel Brooks agrees
 
user114359
@durron597 "Space Fights: Power Gets Up" is definitely a "search for money" sequel.
 
user41796
1:33 PM
@JimmyHoffa Mike Rowe has been saying the same thing for a while now.
 
@GlenH7 eh, did you read the article? Mike Rowe's a likeable guy, but given the politics I've heard from him, I rather doubt what he's saying is quite the same ("Do what you love = devalue modern labor", bit of a different statement than most are saying against it)
> When it comes to earning a living and being a productive member of society – I don’t think people should limit their options to those vocations they feel passionate towards.
^-- Mike Rowe is saying who cares what you're passionate about, be productive and make a life
 
> So at the end of the day, it was about making workers happy so that they will produce more.
 
Not a bad sentiment, just a different one.
 
Why is that evil?
I really don't understand.
 
@durron597 who said it's evil? The bit I find interesting is at the bottom of the article; there's such a strong disdain these days for the idea of working for money rather than passion which is kind of shit
"You need money? Hah! You plebe!" pfleh
 
user41796
1:40 PM
@JimmyHoffa I'm digging into the article now. Definitely separate lines of thing, but very much inter-related.
 
@JimmyHoffa None of us would be programmers if we weren't at least a little passionate about it.
 
@GlenH7 yeah, I just found it an interesting read because I'd never heard it's analysis before.
@durron597 None of us would show up every morning if we weren't paid
 
Happy Coffee Day!
Starting mine off right - with coffee made by an underpaid barista!
 
user41796
Rowe doesn't care about how we got to that uber-ridiculous statement. He's just calling it for the crap that it is. Whereas Miya is explaining how we got into such a stupid situation and how corporations are using it to screw workers over even more.
 
@Ampt Yourself in the breakroom?
 
1:42 PM
@durron597 also I've interviewed numerous terrible programmers - but at my last job I worked with one who was quite good; and quickly admitted wholesale his only reason for doing it was money; he had no interest in coding and hadn't for well over a decade. Just a smart guy, good at the job, who knew how to get it done to make his paycheck. He lived for his home time and could give two shits about the job.
 
@GlenH7 How are workers screwed over if they're happy?
@JimmyHoffa Sounds like he was passionate about making enough money to have home time
 
Ok, then let's simplify - If you lack passion, you probably don't make it out of bed in the morning for anything.
regardless of your standing as a coder
 
user41796
> The most cynical explanation is that employers demand passion because they don’t want to hear complaints. If you make passion a job requirement, you can’t complain about your workload.
 
@durron597 yeah, passionate about money; not work. My point being, in an interview at most companies they'd turn him away if he said that outright, but he could out code 90% of the asshats being interviewed.
 
@Ampt Indeed, and isn't it understandable why an employer would want someone who wants to get out of bed in the morning?
 
1:44 PM
Are you trying to imply that interviewing is broken?!?1?!/1/!!1//21/
 
@GlenH7 That is the most cynical explanation, indeed
@JimmyHoffa Those companies are stupid. The market self corrects
 
@durron597 yeah, but it doesn't limit itself to coders - that applys to ditch diggers and dentists alike
 
@durron597 note The Haskell Tax - just an example of what can occur.
 
user41796
Maybe I haven't had enough coffee yet today, but cynical or not, that quote rings with a degree of truth.
 
user41796
speaking of which - coffee run!
 
1:46 PM
@JimmyHoffa imagine two jobs. The job description is identical. Quality of peers is identical. Current quality level of existing code base is identical. Current technology is identical
At job A, you have a jerk boss, who yells at you for no reason, demands things unreasonably quickly, too many meetings, and is constantly breathing down your neck
 
@durron597 the thing to really take away from that passion article is the lady mentions a craigslist job listing for a house cleaner which asked for people Passionate About Cleaning Houses! - it's just such a load of bullshit. Everyone everywhere knows, people get a job cleaning houses to put food on the table, trying to ask for more from people than to appreciate doing a job, and getting a check, is just kind of an asshole request.
 
Job B, you have a great boss, who is interested in your work but a reasonable amount, is friendly, is willing to talk if you need it but doesn't bother you unless the shit is really hitting the fan
Job A pays 15% more than Job B.
which one do you choose?
 
@durron597 B obviously
 
THE MARKET'S NOT SELF CORRECTING!!!!!11!1!1
 
oh right, sorry :)
 
1:48 PM
So, quality of life has value
 
@JimmyHoffa yeah that's pretty much a guarantee, especially if you are above a relatively low threshold for income
 
Why exactly is the Haskell Tax a problem, then?
 
@durron597 and this somehow has to do with the fact that we expect cleaners to pretend they love cleaning, and aren't just trying to feed their kids?
 
if you make 30k/year having 15% more pay is a life impacting decision; if you make 80k it's a loooot less important
 
@JimmyHoffa I didn't say that
 
1:52 PM
also, people generally feel good at and like things they are good at, I think it's more important to start to identify which things you are naturally better at and focus on those - if you are naturally gifted at things and don't hate them, you will probably enjoy that career path a lot more than something you are terrible at but are passionate about
Ideally you are gifted at something you are have some passion (or just interest in - everyone in this channel has above average levels of passion about the field of development pretty much by definition) that is also economically viable
 
I don't think it's important to love your job but I do think it's important not to hate it
well, scratch that
it's important not to show up miserable every day
 
@enderland yeah, I feel like that is the worst advice in the world every time someone young talks about how much they want to be a sports player, actor, rock star, the classic bullshit where they have .1% chance of success, and a huge chance of ending up feeling totally worthless
 
Yeah
And if not worthless, having economic uncertainty that most of us are not super familiar with as tech professionals
 
it's like gambling on the stupidest lottery every day; who told these people that was a good idea. Good luck to them, but crikey if they thought it over they'd probably come up with something else they also are capable of enjoying and had better chances... But why think it over when everyone advises you just "do what you love!"
 
@JimmyHoffa The people who should shoot for professional athletes / rock stars, etc. are not the people who simply would love to be one of those things
but are people who also would be happy with the process
people happy playing in random bars several days a week
sitting in their garage writing songs
getting up at four am, exercising twice a day (once cross training, once at practice) in the case of athletes
 
1:56 PM
then they sure as hell better not bitch about being a broke musician or expect me to feel sympathy for them
 
user41796
@JimmyHoffa The challenge though is that you can't completely disregard the advice. There is a kernel of truth in there. Likewise, with practice you will become better at something. And as you get better at something, you're likely to enjoy doing that thing more often. So you have positive reinforcement built into that. But to be clear, I'm explicitly excluding the jobs like pro sports players where the supply far exceeds the demand.
 
or complain about how society "doesn't support the arts"
 
@enderland that doesn't sound like a person who's "happy with the process"
 
@GlenH7 that's why I think it's important to identify things you are naturally gifted at and develop those skills
 
user41796
@durron597 It's worth pointing out that more than a few professional players were merely average when they were young. The big difference is the put in the hard work every single day in order to become great
 
user41796
1:58 PM
Pele was a mediocre soccer player at 8 or 10. Jordan got cut from a basketball team.
 
@GlenH7 Exactly; if they didn't at some level enjoy putting in the hard work every day, it would never have happened.
@GlenH7 Brady was like 4th string in high school or something
 
user41796
@durron597 4's seem to burn that guy... :-P
 
> When he enrolled at Michigan, Brady was seventh on the depth chart and had an intense struggle to get some playing time. At one point, Brady hired a sports psychologist to help him cope with frustration and anxiety and even considered transferring to California.[27][28] He worked closely with assistant athletic director Greg Harden, who met with Brady every week to build his confidence and maximize his performance on the field.
 
Reply as soon as possible guys — Basant 8 mins ago
 
user41796
1:59 PM
There's more than a few international level soccer players who have pointed out how they had to touch the ball every single day so they could get better
 
user55340
One more for that one.
 
I don't think anyone would say that you shouldn't dedicate time to things and that it can't make you better, but many people assume that everyone who puts that time into something will become great at it (when it's not true)
 
user114359
@durron597 It has no votes, so someone with less than 3k rep must have flagged it. Maybe POB?
 
@durron597 maybe it's an audit?
 
2:06 PM
@ratchetfreak no, audits lie about the posts' score
 
user55340
Audits are fresh questions.
 
user55340
Within the last month or so.
 
user41796
@durron597 I'm guessing a flag too. I dropped a VTC as primarily opinion based
 
user41796
It's baked long enough. :-)
 
2% of college athletes go pro; the rest end up with "general studies" degrees "working third shifts at target" et al. Bit of a shit way to end what's probably ~10 years of intense training to the exclusion of anything else. Good luck to them finding something they like also after such devotion... I used to work with a guy who went to college on an athletic scholarship, said he was given the choice after the first year: Either keep doing the athletics or get a degree worth a damn.
He dropped the athletics and got a CS degree; wise choice
 
user114359
2:18 PM
If you have to ask if you have talent for professional sports, the answer is "no"
 
Can't say as though I've worked with anyone who was a college athlete through all of college... any of you? If 98% don't go pro ... where do they go? That's the concern I have whenever I hear about people who want to be athletes so bad... Hell, Military would probably be one of the best places to pick them up.
 
user114359
@JimmyHoffa Marines always need more jarheads...
 
@JimmyHoffa someone's gotta work at starbucks
 
user114359
But yeah, military would be good for those people. Physically fit, have a four year degree, can handle the pressure of sports training
 
@enderland and they have to say how passionate they are for coffee in the interview!
 
user114359
2:20 PM
Go into officer school, make a decent salary
 
user41796
@JimmyHoffa There's a fair number that go into physical therapy, coaching, trainers, whatnot. But general studies degrees are pretty limited.
 
military is good for a lot of people who are basically "idk what to do with my life" and a "I was going pro but them I'm not"
 
@Snowman used to stringent routine, understand authority figures, etc. All honesty, I have a lot of respect for the military as a career path for many.
 
@GlenH7 physical therapy requires another degree (with a lot of medical stuff), basically premed
 
user114359
@enderland Careful
 
user41796
2:21 PM
One of the assistant coaches on my soccer team is / was good enough to play college soccer. But he quit after the first year because he studies were demanding too much of him
 
user114359
@RobertHarvey and I are both veterans (not sure about anyone else)
 
user41796
@Snowman I have quite a few friends who got their heads screwed on straight by one or more stints in one of the branches.
 
user114359
@enderland I knew exactly what I wanted in life and I still joined the military. It was exactly the help I needed to get out of a rut
 
user41796
But there is almost always a desire to fulfill a duty to their country that drives them there
 
@Snowman if you've got a college degree, you probably start off in OCS
 
2:22 PM
@Snowman yeah, I don't disagree with that reason either :)
 
enlisted -> officer is a much smaller percentage of people from my understanding
 
@GlenH7 yeah, just like the fella I worked with; I wonder where people who stick it out with the athletics and let their studies just fail end up after the fact..
 
user114359
Officers make up maybe 10% of the military. It is not as simple as just "go to officer school" though, there are additional tests to pass to be admitted
 
@GlenH7 I have a friend who basically has drifted in most of his 20s and ended up doing the military recently, I think it's going to be really good for him (hopefully?)
 
user114359
Before I left I took the additional testing and did pretty well. I still would have needed to put together a portfolio including recommendation letters. Same is true for civilians applying.
 
user114359
2:24 PM
But I think a student athlete who did not go pro would have an easy time with that process due to various coaches and professors being able to vouch for their dedication and teamwork
 
(I wonder if the military tries recruiting from athletes post-college... they should totally setup a pipeline with the NCAA for those who don't get drafted)
 
user114359
@JimmyHoffa They do. Most people are familiar with the recruitment offices that mostly deal with enlisted (you can still go officer there) but they have recruiters dedicated to colleges and medical.
 
user114359
My recruiter later went on to specialize in getting physicians and nurses to join (they are officer jobs). Most larger universities have dedicated recruiters, officially or unofficially.
 
user55340
A sense of athletic entitlement and often less than good grades (intelligence correlation is weak, but there - military is becoming more technical) may have additional issues that they don't want to deal with.
 
user114359
But it is an easy sell. Consider that unless you screw up, you will be promoted to Captain in 4 years and they make $63k/year base pay before locality, housing, etc. Plus they have programs to help pay student loans.
 
2:31 PM
@Snowman yeah one of my friends is at that point and makes... pretty good money (and is a pilot, which he wanted to do too)
and currently the pension rules are pretty favorable too if you can stay 20 years
 
user55340
It's a "you want to get the ones that want to" otherwise you've got problem ones... And in today's military they can pick and chose.
 
user114359
@enderland Pilots have special duty pay, hazard pay, and given their job almost half the time they have combat pay too and the whole shebang is tax-free in a war zone.
 
I nearly did the NUPOC program in my undergrad, the main reason I didn't was I wanted to do grad school
or to have the option at least
 
@Snowman this is one of the reasons I really respect it as a career path - there are so few jobs with any sort of promotion ability over time that correlates hard work with increased income for people with no specialist job skills. I think this is one of the most valuable thing for those people - teaching them if they work hard on something over time, they can achieve an increase in their value.
People with no real job skills to speak of look around at their opportunities and see nothing but service labor and things that really have a fixed income over time; makes it hard for them to see how they can grow. Opportunities for growth for those people are so few and far between. So from their perspective; why should they work hard on something over time, or even try to grow?
 
yeah... especially if it is difficult to get job skills for whatever reason
 
user114359
2:36 PM
That is one thing I have learned: government jobs offer much better promotion potential than the private sector
 
user55340
Generally true.
 
user114359
Yes, mostly. There are always outliers.
 
user55340
Private sector rarely promotes. Prefers to hire from external rather than promote.
 
@MichaelT this is one reason I like my current company, nearly all promotions are internal (definitely an anomaly)
 
user55340
Government promotes and often easy transfers between departments for promotion paths if "stuck" and want to move up.
 
user114359
2:39 PM
@MichaelT The only promotions I have ever received were in the military. Ever other job advancement or salary increase was due to changing jobs.
 
user55340
They also don't have the "up or out" or "stack rank" mentality.
 
user55340
(not sure about up or out in military)
 
@Snowman which is why it frustrates me to no end how so many still cling to this whole "Work hard and be rewarded in the private sector!" mentality from a bygone era when people started in the mail room and became an exec.
 
user114359
@JimmyHoffa That mentality is madness. No, you get promoted by brown-nosing and making the right appearance to impress the right people. Something my dignity does not allow me to do.
 
user114359
Which is why my promotions came from changing jobs.
 
2:43 PM
Yeah, it's pretty hard to want to "play the game" when playing the game by working hard and doing quality work doesn't get you anywhere...
 
@Snowman How has the whole VA medical scandal affected you, personally?
 
@Snowman Stories like this make me never want to changes jobs.
It sounds like I'd just plain generally be unhappy in most other companies.
 
user114359
@durron597 No, I am not disabled and do not have VA medical benefits at all.
 
Between my skill sets not really being fully used and terrible cultures, I don't want to go anywhere else.
 
@ThomasOwens if you're happy in your company/job, don't undervalue that.
 
user114359
2:47 PM
No service-related disability, specifically.
 
@JimmyHoffa as green as the grass might seem elsewhere, sometimes the grass is greenest under your feet...
 
@Snowman What about friends?
 
@JimmyHoffa I am happy. But it just totally turns me off from the whole idea of ever leaving. People here get promoted into positions (or at least not-insignificant pay increases beyond cost of living every so often), you get rewarded for getting stuff done, and the work actually matters.
 
@JohanLarsson Heh @ThomasOwens that article is for you
 
2:49 PM
I agree with it pretty much.
Think the consensus here was that architects should not write any code
 
@durron597 I agree with the title alone. Everyone working in software should code some amount. I think probably 25% minimum.
 
Which I don't agree with :)
 
Probably closer to 40%.
 
I'm not so jaded yet that I believe brown-nosing is the way to get promotions, but I do know that it does take more than just working hard and doing your job well. What that "more" is I never quite figured out.
 
2:50 PM
Depends on project, ideally higher imo
 
@ThomasOwens As soon as I started reading it I scrolled to the bottom to see if you wrote it ;)
 
user114359
@durron597 I have some friends with service-related disabilities, mostly hearing. Seems to be common among people that fired rifles for a living, or rode on helicopters.
 
Actually, not necessarily coding. But doing development - requirements elicitation or management, design and design reviews, coding, testing, integration.
 
@RobertHarvey Brown-noising is definitely the way, is there even a discussion?
 
user114359
2:51 PM
Or the guy who worked in a machine shop repairing stuff, lots of loud machines and he was lazy and hardly ever wore hearing protection
 
150
A: Why is it important to gain "visibility" in the workplace?

enderland If I can write awesome code, why should I care about having visibility? The work I am doing rocks, then why should I think about standing on the roof top and telling about it. The Lie The important thing to realize is - no one cares about what you do at work. No one cares how great your cod...

 
or relations, just phrased differently
 
Oh, it definitely has something to do with knowing people dynamics. The term "brown nosing" is too narrow, though.
 
That's why I'll never move into the engineering process team. I love process and methods, but if I don't do software product development at least 40% of the time, I will very quickly become ineffective at {architecture, process, management, program management, systems engineering}.
 
ime there is a clear negative correlation between skill/iq and promotions
The geeks want to do geek stuff and are not interested in management models
The guys who are ~successful~ are often average IQ competitive types.
 
2:53 PM
@JohanLarsson if you frame "how to get a promotion" as a "me vs management" thing you will nearly never be successful
 
I'm not interested in that at the moment.
 
@JohanLarsson by what standard? "successful" means a lot of different things, someone who can be a good leader but an "average IQ" person and have a lot more impact and benefit to an org than a brilliant asshole manager
 
I understand that what I wrote can be read as bitterness. Was just a neutral presentation of observations.
@enderland $, but I tilded it to indicate there are other values.
 
@ThomasOwens that's because you're happy. Appreciate that. You'll know it's time to go when you look around yourself and you're equally turned off by what you're doing every day as the risks of ending up somewhere crappy. At Employer^ the job was pretty crappy, but until the HQ decided to close our office due to it being screwed up (which was made me hate the place), it was still better than the risk of where I might end up. OTOH, where I did end up, turns out to be spectacular....
Generally you'll know when you hate what you're doing enough to take the risk. (for you; with no responsibilities beyond to your cat, you shouldn't bother yourself being too risk averse)
 
@JohanLarsson most tech people don't want to work with people (or understand the importance of working with people) and that is why they don't have ~success~
 

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