The Whiteboard

whatsisname

7:01 PM

And of course for software, little of it is 'engineering' type design

Thomas Owens

@whatsisname Code as Design: Three Essays by Jack W. Reeves

There are a number of pages on c2 wiki that are also relevant.

whatsisname

Yeah

Thomas Owens

The base case here is that writing code is the software engineer's version of an electrical or mechanical drawing or CAD model.

Or a civil engineer's plans and blueprints and models.

Robert Harvey

Really? I always thought of the code as the actual circuitry.

The TDD'ers would tell you that the tests are the blueprint.

Thomas Owens

The argument that tests are blueprints is a small variant of this.

user41796

7:05 PM

@ThomasOwens Beware the risk of tortured metaphors

Robert Harvey

And perhaps the Interfaces.

Thomas Owens

@GlenH7 I accept it's not perfect. But it's more realistic than equating software design, meaning drawing pictures on a whiteboard, to drawings and CAD models.

whatsisname

except it's not though

user41796

Inasmuch as a metaphor can simplify expressing a foreign concept to someone else, it's very easy to fall into space where the metaphor falls apart and the analogies don't carry through.

whatsisname

the idea that the source code is analogous to the blueprints is only true at a very simplistic perspective, that ignores the meat and potatoes of the challenge

Thomas Owens

7:07 PM

There are arguments that the unit tests are also a form of specification. So your product spec is the requirements + unit tests. Your design is your code. Your implementation is the binary. In an interpreted language, your implementation is the executing code.

whatsisname

@RobertHarvey: to keep the analogy as accurate possible, it's more than that: the code is the actual built, assembled PCB with all components populated

that is magically able to be replicated flawlessly

Thomas Owens

^^ Yes.

Well, almost. It's much closer to that.

whatsisname

and in an electronic device, there are key design decisions all the way until the device is powered up and run

just like with software, the only time the design decisions stop getting made is when it goes out the door

Thomas Owens

In software, you can make key design decisions up until you start making copies of the golden CD.

Once you burn that golden CD that is the master for a particular version, that product is released. Admittedly, it's easier for us to change for v2 than a hardware product.

whatsisname

I am in the "the code is the design" camp, and think there should be a change in terminology to rename what most people call "design" now to something else

Robert Harvey

7:14 PM

@ThomasOwens In that context, I can see how code might be seen as design. @JimmyHoffa was talking about how design is fluid in a code-writing context; sometimes you find a better way while you're writing the code. But running your code through a compiler doesn't create the implementation; freezing your source code does. Conceptually, there's no difference between a compiler and an interpreter from a design standpoint (if you discount things like performance).

Thomas Owens

I like the term "view".

user55340

@whatsisname ask a naming question. "If the code is the design, what should I call what was the design before the code?"

whatsisname

yeah that will go over well I'm sure

user55340

Don't worry, most of us are out of close votes.

Thomas Owens

So let's say that your code is the real design. Anything else is just a view of that design.

Robert Harvey

7:16 PM

OK.

whatsisname

kind of, what we call design is more of a "broad plan of attack strategery" kind of activity

Thomas Owens

One view is the actual source code. Another is a sequence diagram of a particular flow. Another is the class diagram of everything.

There's also "architecture".

So the use of things like UML, ER diagrams, whatever...that's "view". Architecture is the design stuff that comes before the source code is written.

Some places call "architecture" "high level design".

Robert Harvey

Would you still be designing if you wrote your code directly in assembler, or machine code (flipping toggle switches on a front panel)?

whatsisname

I avoid using the architecture term as well as it too presents the false analogy

Robert Harvey

Or would you be producing an implementation?

whatsisname

7:18 PM

@RobertHarvey: yes

Thomas Owens

@RobertHarvey Assembler is design. Flipping switches is an implementation.

whatsisname

ultimately, all of our software boils down to flipping transistors in a CPU, in some fashion

Robert Harvey

The beautiful thing about source code is it's both design and implementation. Compilers just change that implementation into a different form for execution.

whatsisname

all work between "hey wouldn't be cool if I could to blah"

Robert Harvey

So do most interpreters, for that matter. So I don't find that distinction especially important.

whatsisname

7:19 PM

and something you can make a computer do and walk away, is an element of design

@RobertHarvey: right

which is the problem, there is no difference between design and implementation like there is in building a bridge

that's ultimately where this kind of problem stems from

companys want to pay one or two guys a bunch of money to "architect" some software package

then pay a bunch of migrant workers peanuts to "implement" it

just like how construction projects go

but it doesn't work like that

enderland

@whatsisname stevestreeting.com/2011/06/16/…

I think you need to be careful what type of "design" you are saying software dev doesn't relate to. It absolutely doesn't relate to the idea of, "make a complete bridge design and then make it" types of design

but most actual design work is iterative as well

whatsisname

the word "design" for software has a meaning almost completely unlike "design" for other fields

Thomas Owens

@whatsisname IMO, "implementation" really is what you call pushing the "build" button on your compiler.

user55340

Design for software: narrative

Thomas Owens

You're turning your representation into something useful. When a manufacturing floor implements a physical design, they create something useful. Our manufacturing floor is a compiler.

whatsisname

7:24 PM

@ThomasOwens: you can think of it that way I agree, in that the thing separating it from the design is a 100% mechanized transformation

Robert Harvey

@ThomasOwens So basically you're saying that source code is really just instructions for the compiler? Eh...

Thomas Owens

And that's different than most other disciplines. What do people who use VHDL and Verilog consider that work? Is their VHDL and Verilog code design or implementation?

user55340

The notes a writer writes from. They've got a story to tell. Character studies and such. From that, they build the manuscript.

Thomas Owens

@RobertHarvey Yes.

whatsisname

@ThomasOwens: that gets murky again, because usually that work has enough stuff hooked into it that it starts to fall back into the more traditional 'engineering'

enderland

7:26 PM

are you considering design as a noun or a verb?

Robert Harvey

I don't think the line is that clear. The same techniques used in your source code are the very same techniques used in the "implementation." This is not at all the same thing that happens when you build a bridge.

Thomas Owens

@RobertHarvey How is the compiler turning C into machine code different than a bunch of people and big tools turning raw material into a bridge?

whatsisname

the compiler has a marginal cost of effectively 0

and the compiler requires no babysitting

Thomas Owens

Raw material is turned into building material (C files are turned into object files). Those building materials are assembled into a bridge (object files are linked into an executable).

Robert Harvey

Thought experiment: I build a C machine. The processor executes C code directly. Is the C code you write design or implementation?

Thomas Owens

7:28 PM

@whatsisname Let's not get into the economics at this point. That is a huge difference.

whatsisname

if some day, there was a magical machine, that you could feed a blueprint into, and poof, a bridge would appear where you wanted, quickly, and for free

Thomas Owens

@RobertHarvey You could just say "Python".

whatsisname

designing of bridges before long would start to have "agile bridge building" companies and they'd go through figuring out this stuff for themselves just like we are now

Thomas Owens

That's just an interpreted language.

whatsisname

@ThomasOwens: the economics part is a significant driver of all this

Robert Harvey

7:29 PM

@ThomasOwens Or any other language, for that matter. Processors exist for Java, Forth, and probably other languages that I don't know about. You used to could get one for Lisp, until they discovered that converting source code to a general purpose processor was a better approach.

enderland

@whatsisname are you saying that the key difference is that with software development the conceptualization -> prototype -> redesign -> release cycle is faster, because the mechanics of computers allow that to happen simultaneously?

whatsisname

the reason waterfall doesn't work is because it is not economical, and companies that try to stick to it will fail against companies that understand why not

Thomas Owens

@whatsisname All engineering design is iterative.

user55340

@whatsisname there's a steam game for agile bridge builder... I don't want to be first to go across.

whatsisname

@enderland: faster, and at trivial cost

Thomas Owens

7:30 PM

Drawing a set of blueprints for a bridge is iterative. Writing code is iterative.

user55340

store.steampowered.com/app/250460

whatsisname

@ThomasOwens: the bridge building process as a whole is very un-iterative by most measures

Thomas Owens

@whatsisname True.

enderland

@whatsisname the building part, yes. but the design part is most definitely iterative

whatsisname

noone builds a bridge, decides they don't like the color, then just bulldoze the whole thing and do it over

Thomas Owens

7:31 PM

But how iterative is building an executable?

whatsisname

but that ability is nearly a reality for software

Thomas Owens

I'm pretty sure gcc and javac are pretty sequential.

Robert Harvey

Anyway, there's a better case for "code is design" when you're working in a declarative paradigm, and not an imperative one. You don't build a bridge by telling people how to swing a hammer; you hire guys that already know how to swing one and how to follow directions.

whatsisname

@RobertHarvey: that analogy quickly breaks down when you consider the uniqueness of software relative to construction

Robert Harvey

I'm saying it's a continuum, not a fine distinction. There's design and implementation in every part of the software development process, once you get below pure UML.

whatsisname

7:33 PM

if you were building a house with 10 thousand unique fasteners, things would be weird, but thats how it is for us

enderland

@whatsisname one of my previous departments had considerable issues standardizing components for relatively small physical things, because there were so many options available and everyone was continuously redesigning things

whatsisname

@enderland: was this previous department known as "Microsoft Windows" by any chance?

Robert Harvey

Unless your claim is "everything is design except the actual executable."

enderland

@whatsisname no, it was making physical fixturing for a factory

whatsisname

:)

Thomas Owens

7:35 PM

@whatsisname The hardware answer was interchangeable parts and standardization. The software answer is reusable components and component based software engineering‌.

enderland

what you are saying about how unique software dev is vs other design situations is not congruent with the reality of how the design process works within other fields

whatsisname

@RobertHarvey: it is, which is why the 'design process' for software should have almost no basis from the design process for real-world objects

Robert Harvey

Alright, so what do you do with that, other than telling the waterfallers that they're getting it wrong?

whatsisname

I don't even remember how this discussion began

Thomas Owens

I started it.

whatsisname

7:37 PM

last I remember we were discussing whether it was necessarily collaborative or not

and somehow ended here

Thomas Owens

Yeah. I've come around on that one. I'm not sure that it has to be, but it's probably better.

whatsisname

@RobertHarvey: what I 'do' with that is understand that there is no discernible difference between "Design" and "Implementation" and any attempts to seperate them will just waste money and produce garbage

rename design to "planning" or something and go from there

Robert Harvey

Fair enough.

Thomas Owens

@whatsisname I like the term "design", though. :(

whatsisname

it's got a lot of baggage though

durron597

7:39 PM

Completely unrelated question: what do you all think about giving a gift card to a site that has products you know the recipient will like, but for an amount that is about half what most products cost?

Thomas Owens

Besides, the managers have a monopoly on "planning".

enderland

@durron597 gift cards are terribad

user20683

@enderland I like them so long as they are sufficiently generic

durron597

My brother is 6'5" and very thin. possibly sub 200 lbs. I was thinking about getting him a $50 card here: ratioclothing.com/products/email-gift-card

user41796

@durron597 MetaFight really resented that situation yesterday....

enderland

7:40 PM

I dislike them in all situations where cash or check is a viable alternative

Thomas Owens

@durron597 No. If it's a gift, they should be able to buy at least one item that they like. Although if you're financially strapped and they know it (you're a student without a full-time job or are out of work or something), it may be more acceptable.

durron597

they make custom fit dress shirts, but the cheapest is around $100

enderland

if you can get a discount on purchasing them I am less inclined to find them annoying, but otherwise they are annoying to me

durron597

my brother is not cash strapped even a little.

whatsisname

if you are going to give "essentially money" you might as well just give straight up cash

durron597

7:41 PM

it's not like i'm giving him an amazon gift card, it's a much more niche product.

Thomas Owens

@durron597 You are, I mean. The giver of the card.

user41796

@durron597 I'd either buy him a whole shirt or just suggest the site to him instead.

Thomas Owens

If you can afford it, though, a gift card should likely buy one product and one that the recipient of the card would be likely to buy.

durron597

well, he gave me a couple of paperback books for my birthday last month. i don't really want to give him $100 for his birthday

enderland

we got a bunch of gift cards for our wedding, and other than amazon ones they are just more inconvenient than anything else

user41796

7:42 PM

Might look for a different idea then

durron597

it sounds like you all are saying to scrap this idea entirely.

enderland

@durron597 I would, yes

user20683

Give him a Barnes and Noble gift card

user41796

I can understand where you're coming from, but I don't think it will play out as you may hope. I don't think it would be a catastrophic explosion either.

enderland

One other thing about gift cards is that they require me to, depending on the location, buy things inefficiently

user41796

7:43 PM

@WorldEngineer Well played.

durron597

i don't want to do that. i want to either give him a gift card for a niche item (like, i'm buying him a shirt, but i'm letting him choose the options) or actually choose the present

user20683

@GlenH7 :D

durron597

i think things like actual cash or an amazon gift card are such a cop out

Robert Harvey

I'm picky about shirts. Don't know about your brother.

user20683

@durron597 get him a proof set from the mint

durron597

7:44 PM

@RobertHarvey Exactly. I'm saying "i want to buy you a shirt, but people are picky about shirts so here's a way to do both"

enderland

@durron597 they are, but I feel like they are less of a cop out than "here's a giftcard to a store you like but I didn't bother to pick something" (imo at least)

Robert Harvey

@WorldEngineer has good gift ideas.

user20683

you're giving him money but it's more like "here is money but with more class"

user20683

@RobertHarvey I work in retail

user20683

this is literally half of my job

durron597

7:45 PM

@WorldEngineer where in retail?

user20683

@durron597 Barnes & Noble

Thomas Owens

lol

durron597

@WorldEngineer I can't remember whether he has a nook or a kindle

user20683

I do logistics and customer service

user20683

@durron597 nook books are epubs

enderland

7:46 PM

@durron597 write him a letter or something

user20683

the encryption is only publisher specific

enderland

or make a custom card

user20683

incidently, B&N is running a nice little trade in deal for samsung tablets

durron597

Robert Harvey

Heh.

user20683

7:48 PM

@durron597 that's overly literal (specifically a character literal) even by our standards.

durron597

@WorldEngineer literally?

user20683

@durron597 or figuratively. They seem to mean the same thing these days.

enderland

man that convo about software design makes me realize I think I'm going to be intellectually bored with the technology in this position like none other, thanks @whatsisname :P

user20683

There's a new Reagan biography out in hardcover

whatsisname

lol

durron597

7:49 PM

here's my brother in a nutshell: he's a really tall, thin doctor. very serious runner. likes gardening. broke his lawnmower recently

enderland

also @durron597 sorry I'm coming across as so.. idk hostile, I don't think I'm in a very good mood right now

whatsisname

:(

durron597

@WorldEngineer He despises reagan. Despite being a libertarian

user55340

Paid subscription to Gardening.SE?

durron597

@enderland I didn't think you were being hostile

Robert Harvey

7:50 PM

Get him a running pin with a flower on it that doesn't need mowing.

user20683

@durron597 in no way uncommon. Reagan is viewed as too much of a hawk by most of my libertarian friends

Robert Harvey

My new "technologies to learn" list, in approximate order of study: ASP.NET MVC + EF + Web API, Angular, Javascript+HTML5+CSS3, SQL Server Stored Procedures, WCF, Data Structures.

durron597

I don't really want to get him a book. I doubt he has time for it

he has 4 kids, ranging from 10 to 3

Robert Harvey

Get him a frying pan. He can hit himself over the head with it.

enderland

doctors are CRAZY for the lifestyles they (normally) have

user20683

7:52 PM

@durron597 Buy him a babysitter for a night

whatsisname

@RobertHarvey: what about "understanding what people mean when they want to 'print from their harddrive'

Robert Harvey

That's IT, not CS.

user41796

@WorldEngineer Exactly what I was about to suggest

enderland

@WorldEngineer I had thought something like that too, a "date night" thing with a gift card and babysitting is always nice

user55340

Babysitter's book club... Um... Babysitter gift card!

whatsisname

7:52 PM

no that's software dev

just add some mba speak to it

"I want to synergize cutting edge reports right from my tablets harddrive and incentive web-2.0 PDF methodologies"

user20683

@whatsisname replace harddrive with cloud

André

That sounds like a friend. uncanny resemblance.

user20683

and maybe incentive with innovate

user20683

and 2.0 with 3.0

user55340

@WorldEngineer to the cloud!

whatsisname

7:56 PM

I'm not going for MBA speak, I'm going for "confused accountant that was stuck with the responsibility of trying to describe requirements for the new billing software"

user55340

Windows7-Cloud Commercial

►

Robert Harvey

durron597

I'm still on the dress shirt idea. I think I'm going to get him this: landsend.com/products/…

user55340

@durron597 scottevest. Warning: they show up in Google adverts if you go there.

durron597

I think that will be a better present than half of a custom made one

Robert Harvey

7:58 PM

user41796

@durron597 Love their products. They also have a slim fit for shirts

user20683

@durron597 make sure to get a gift receipt #retailveteran

user55340

scottevest.com

durron597

@GlenH7 That is the slim fit

user41796

Sorry missed the "tailored fit" comment

durron597

7:59 PM

@WorldEngineer Buying stuff online means there are lots of records.

user20683

@durron597 fair enough :)

durron597

I should mention that I live in Texas and he lives in Massachusetts

user41796

LandsEnd customer service is awesome. Returns are never an issue.

Thomas Owens

@durron597 He's a runner? Buy him an entry into the BAA 10k. There are still positions open.

user20683

@ThomasOwens Tom wins again

durron597

8:02 PM

@ThomasOwens I suspect he's already bought one.

Thomas Owens

You can check on the registration site, I suppose.

baa.org/races/10k/participant-information/entry-list.aspx

user41796

Pro-tip: Listing your "Intro to Foo" classes as part of your "Course Highlights" isn't necessarily a wise use of resume space.

durron597

I am asking my sister in law if he's available to run it

@ThomasOwens the race is on Father's day

user41796

It's an excuse to get out of the house....

durron597

I'm going to ask him "do you want an entry into the race or do you want a different present" without telling him the other choice

gnat

8:32 PM

David, to me it looks like folks touching each other with penises (before, I'd also think these are hands but your post spoiled it) — gnat Apr 3 at 8:29

user41796

Warning: don't search for that term by itself. Some rather NSFW definitions will show up.

gnat

words microsoft and cloud now sound like penis to me. Life will never be the same again. Innocence lost

Jimmy Hoffa

@gnat seriously? Look at that sissy thing, I don't think I'd have it in me not to punch something like that if it walked up to me...

whatsisname

wow I just got really sleepy all of a sudden

user41796

@whatsisname It's the fluffly, off-white microsoft clouds

Jimmy Hoffa

8:42 PM

@whatsisname yeah, stroke's will do that. It was nice knowing you.

durron597

8:58 PM

@ThomasOwens my brother said no to the BAA because he's racing in this the following weekend: bikemam.nationalmssociety.org/site/TR/Bike/…

user55340

9:14 PM

Why are people so hesitant to ask their instructor, but so quick to ask the world?

user55340

huhu, you right @MichaelT maybe i need to ask him for more details. — YRO 2 mins ago

user15026

I know for a lot of people I knew, it was that feeling that the instructor was above them, and their questions would be seen as foolish and annoying

user15026

Fear of authority and all that

user55340

9:31 PM

-1

Q: What is the problem domain for my project? I need help

I am documenting for my school project, but I am not sure what is problem domain in my case. I am simulating an ATM for my project. In this project, my idea is to use motion sensors instead of using buttons and a touch screen. The main goal is to protect users from germ and bacteria. Would you ...

user55340

Whee. End of semester.

gnat

@MichaelT exams are coming, along with homework dumps and vague halp-i-missed-lectures "questions" vomited at us. Bye-bye, interesting questions at Programmers front page

user55340

2

Q: What AI algorithm should I use to develop an automatic personal scheduler?

In a project that I'm doing for my Artificial Intelligence course, I'm developing a software for automatic personal scheduling. The user tells the software what tasks he has to perform (along with some parameters) and the software is supposed to tell the user what to do at what time. What I've a...

algorithms artificial-intelligence scheduling dynamic-programming

user55340

> Approach B: I've also seen OptaPlanner but I'm not sure if it'd be the best option. It'll take much time to get familiar with, and I only have 2 days left to complete the project.

user55340

I tend to doubt, however that one would accept drools as a solution. That's like getting the assignment of "write a simple line editor" and handing in Microsoft Word.

gnat

9:36 PM

109

Q: Why is "Can someone help me?" not an "actual" question?

Disclaimer: I am not actually asking this. This is intended as a "canonical/reference" post. My question seems pretty good. I: Explained the context of my project Included a detailed list of what I want to accomplish Showed what I have tried/my work so far My problem is clear, I need help ac...

discussion faq-proposed

user55340

Interesting - cs.se discourages answers to perceived homework but doesn't close the question as too broad or other.

user55340

0

Q: Proving a language isn't regular using the pumping lemma

Let the language $$ L = \{ a^nb^m : m,n \text{ has the same integer-quotient, (ignoring the remainder) } \} $$ Show that $L$ isn't regular using the pumping-lemma. Let's assume by contradiction that $L$ is regular, then there's a constant $p$ which answers the conditions of the lemma for e...

formal-languages regular-languages pumping-lemma

gnat

feature-request: give users additional votes down and close in end May and beginning of September

user55340

The problem is that if the question doesn't guide the answers into ones appropriate for the site, the problem is with the question - not the answers.

user55340

Please consider not to encourage undesirable posting behaviour. In particular, you may want to consider the possibility that this user in particular is trying to crowdsource their homework. — Raphael ♦ 6 hours ago

gnat

9:49 PM

@MichaelT their regulars are probably just polite. That (and of course less... offensively looking question titles) probably makes h/w dumps tolerable over there. I for one stay polite only because I am confident about timely deletion. In the past, it was not so, do you remember? "Programmers, we need to talk..." :)

user55340

They're still in beta too... So a bit more lax with questions. Still, it seems wrong to criticize answers to questions giving what the question wants without also acting to correct the question (or close it)

gnat

33

Q: Programmers.SE and the Summer of Love

Programmers.SE, we need to talk. We've had a rough couple of years, what with being originally a place to ask anything and everything and having to shape up. I get that it's annoying to still see off-topic question or questions that are unanswerable day in and day out. But that's no excuse for ...

discussion comments etiquette

user55340

Note that there is a comment from s mid about it being reopened- without it being closed.

user55340

This question appears to be unsuited for this site because questions of the form: "This is the exercise problem, this is my solution. Please grade!" are not interesting for anyone but you. Please see this related meta discussion. If you want to ask a specific question about a specific part of your attempt, please edit the question accordingly and it may be reopened. Otherwise, you might want to visit Computer Science Chat and get some feedback there. — Raphael ♦ 6 hours ago

gnat

@MichaelT FWIW there are 2 or 3 votes down on that question (I can't see split directly there but asker's rep shows that)

also, if their quality norms and community consensus aren't yet firmly set, moderator can hesitate to close unilaterally

durron597

9:59 PM

I know mathematics.SE would think that sort of question would be highly worthwhile

mathematics encourages homework questions

i think it's a choice, the community choose the culture they want.

Ixrec

on some of these sites plenty of legitimately good questions are indistinguishable from homework

gnat

@durron597 it's also a matter of "barrier to entry". Math (even homework) tends to be more complicated and harder to answer than programming

and of course there are less math students out there

Ixrec

the "homework question" is kind of a straw man imo; what really matters is whether the OP bothered to explain why they're stuck on their homework

that CS question is dubious at best because the actual question is "Here's a homework problem. I guess the solution is X. Is it?"

user55340

@Ixrec my criteria is simply "does the question lead to answers that contribute to the quality of the site?"

gnat

@Ixrec Math.SE homework dumps per my recollection are as explanaiton-free as ours. Though even then they tend to look less offensive than here

Ixrec

10:05 PM

yep, that too

user55340

I don't care one bit about the source. However, raw cut and paste of homework doesn't make for good answers.

Ixrec

@gnat maybe I should hang out on the Math.SE home page for a day to see if that actually pans out

normally I only ever see their HNQs

gnat

@MichaelT instead of raw c&p, one should carefully scan the textbook page and post it!

user55340

@Ixrec hint: it may surprise you.

gnat

@MichaelT hint: I see what you did here!

user55340

10:07 PM

The culture on math.se is to never actually answer homework problems.

user55340

You can post "hint: some trig identities" in most answers and get up votes.

Ixrec

I have seen the hint answers

those are usually not very interesting

user55340

So when cs.se chastised a complete answer, without fixing or closing the question - something is wrong.

user55340

@Ixrec math has commented on their low user engagement. Hints and uninteresting answers may be partly to blame.

gnat

@MichaelT that will hunt them back later when many students will learn that "it's a great place to dump"

Ixrec

10:13 PM

wait, Raphael's comment on that CS question says "it may be reopened"; was it closed earlier?

user55340

@Ixrec you see that now? And nope - no close / reopen.

user55340

cs.stackexchange.com/posts/42834/revisions

Ixrec

I glossed over it earlier since it was clearly one of those standard explanations

user55340

Close and reopen shows up in revisions.

Ixrec

weird, maybe he meant to close it and forgot or something

user55340

10:17 PM

And you can see vote count (even without rep) in timeline: cs.stackexchange.com/posts/42834/timeline

psr

11:36 PM

Sometimes I can't help myself.

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A: Where do I find the "Specific beats general" rule?

If there is a rule which states "specific beats general" that applies to all rules then it must be the most general rule in the system. If so, it is overruled by all the other rules, which are more specific. Which makes it meaningless. Pathfinder, learning from the mistakes of 3.5, must have r...

Duga

I believe such questions are better suited for Programmers site. — PM 77-1 12 secs ago

whatsisname

alright

start of the weekend begins in 10 minutes

going to a wedding this weekend in Kansas City

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