:chat!

Carpetsmoker

00:02

:q?

:-)

muru

:D vim undo map leads mostly to undos. Got it.. iunmap. :)

Vi Meta

01:57

0

Q: Let's make some ads for our site!

The members of Programming Puzzles and Code Golf have made a few Community Promotion Ads in order to promote themselves on other sites: Note: this may or may not be blatant self-promotion come visit our site we want more users or subliminal messaging. A few other sites have them too, such as ...

Vi Meta

07:29

0

Q: Tags substitute, search and replace - use cases

I recently had a question of mine edited (not complaining), and the change was to remove the two tags search and replace, and add the tag substitute. Now it appeared to me originally that this was an irrelevant distinction, but then I thought that search is actually a stand-alone tag which may h...

discussion tags

Rich

10:50

Re: this question: vi.stackexchange.com/questions/1912/…

The short answer is "you're using the wrong filetype".

But I think it might be instructive for new users to go into a little bit more detail: maybe suggesting what the user would need to research in order to fix the problem manually with syntax highlighting commands.

muru

Two of my predictions fulfilled (http://meta.vi.stackexchange.com/questions/118/what-do-we-do-about-software-recommendation-questions):
- http://vi.stackexchange.com/questions/2047/what-are-the-best-plugins-for-editing-tex-files
- http://vi.stackexchange.com/questions/2023/resources-to-learn-vim
How long before an IDE question?

Rich

Without actually going ahead and writing an entirely new plugin that does the job. Does that sound sensible?

Or should I vote to close as a "do my homework" question?

(The OP has already fixed their actual problem)

@muru I'm amazed their haven't been any already!

muru

And somebody was worried this site will become a programmer-fest. :P

Rich

ugh s/their/there

Vi Meta

12:27

0

Q: Should we allow evil questions?

In an answer to a related question about vi-mode in bash, an answerer asked what would be next. Given that the operating system that shall not be named (the one that swaps constantly, even given 8 MB of ram) has been reported as being used as an editor and supports a plugin called evil featuring ...

discussion

Carpetsmoker

13:46

@Doorknob Re: feeds ... Maybe we can set it up just for those sites?

That still seems a managable amount ... Including SO, SU, and UNIX would probably be too much ...

Vi Meta

14:14

0

Q: How we can change unicorns eating daisies?

Going to tour page, it has fictive question and answer. How this can be changed to some more practical examples?

discussion

Carpetsmoker

16:19

@ViMeta When I first saw this title I thought someone had gone insane...

200_success

16:40

@Carpetsmoker I believe you consider ViEmu off-topic?

1

Q: How can I work around the inability to save macros in ViEmu?

I would like to be able to save my ViEmu macros between sessions of Visual Studio 2013. This feature was requested in 2010 and apparently almost made the cut for ViEmu 2.5: I was wondering if there is a way to set a macro in the .viemurc file, so I don't have to redo it every time I start ...

vimrc macro viemu

Carpetsmoker

16:55

What is ViEmu?

user4704

It's a plugin for Visual Studio.

Carpetsmoker

(& I missed that question, it seems)

user4704

It provides vi emulation.

Carpetsmoker

Ah, yes ... IMHO it would be off-topic, but I don't think everyone might agree?

user4704

I dunno, I'm still kind of on the fence about whether it's being overly restrictive to do so.

Carpetsmoker

16:56

This is a good example of a question that required visual studio expertise, and not so much vi expertise, to answer...

user4704

But I'd rather start from a position of "off-topic" and change our minds later.

user4704

(instead of the other way around)

200_success

I agree with Josh. Not sure whether it should be on-topic or not, but better not to set the precedent that it's on-topic.

Carpetsmoker

8

Q: Evil: map keybindings the vim way?

I am trying to make the Evil function evil-jump-to-tag, C-] behave like the Emacs binding M-.. The normal behaviour is fine for browsing Tags files, but I want it to work also for Slime's slime-edit-definition, Elisps' elisp-slime-nav-find-elisp-thing-at-point, Clojures cider-jump-to-var, etc......

keymap evil

Do you think someone at vi.SE will be able to answer that? Well, maybe some can (@Gilles for example), but most can't

But at the same time, I don't like closing first questions from new users :-/

200_success

Is ViEmu a integration with Vim (bridge or embedding), or is it an emulator/clone?

Carpetsmoker

17:01

Vi/vim emulation for Visual Studio, Xcode, Word, Outlook & SQL Server

Is what the homepage says

Only $99!

I like the "Graphical cheat sheet based tutorial" here btw: viemu.com/a_vi_vim_graphical_cheat_sheet_tutorial.html ... I wonder if something like that exist for Vim

(although most, if not all, seems to apply to Vim as well)

Carpetsmoker

17:19

0

Q: How do I get +clipboard support in Fedora 20?

It seems to me that neither "+p nor "*p works for me. How can I know if my Vim is installed and set up properly to make them available? And if it's not set up, what can I do to set it up? I'm running Fedora 20 with Mate 18.1. I've installed the vim-enhanced and vim-x11 packages. And my Vim vers...

os-clipboard x11 linux installing linux-fedora

fedora or linux-fedora? Or is just linux enough?

user4704

I would say "linux" is enough, because we're not a linux site. shrug

user4704

The variant is specified in his question and I think that's sufficient.

Carpetsmoker

Yeah, but it's a very specific fedora question in this case... ie. an expert in ubuntu would not know the answer

user4704

@Carpetsmoker I think 90% of the questions I close on GDSE are from first-time posters. It gets easier after the first fifty :D

user4704

@Carpetsmoker That's fair, I don't really use Linux enough to really get how distributions differ.

yo'

17:48

@derobert Around? ...

Btw, @JoshPetrie You could have dragged me here, couldn't you? I would be happy to move the chatty discussion from the comments to here :-)

derobert

@yo' around

There is feature that automatically pops up when a comment thread gets long to move the whole mess to chat... I clicked the link and it failed for some reason.

yo'

@derobert I honestly have to say that I don't have an opinion whether the question should stay or go.

Carpetsmoker

Just answer it. If it gets closed, then it gets closed, but your answer would still stay

(and I doubt it would be closed)

derobert

I didn't think there was much to say beyond installing that package and running vimx instead of vim. That's fully covered (now) by the answer to the other question, which also lets you know other useful stuff (e.g., getting it working over ssh).

Using the system clipboard in Fedora is a subset of the other question.

Carpetsmoker

Probably, but I don't know; I'm not a Fedora user :-)

Still a useful "entry point" duplicate

derobert

17:52

Duplicates don't have to be exact duplicates (and that's why the wording is "answer can already be found here")

Carpetsmoker

And having an answer on the duplicate as such, is still useful

Even if it gets closed

derobert

@Carpetsmoker Yes, indeed. I don't suggest deleting it.

Carpetsmoker

Yeah, those comments were more directed to @yo' who seems reluctant to add an answer :-)

yo'

@Carpetsmoker I'm working on it just now, so please, gimme 5 minutes :)

Carpetsmoker

:-)

FASTER!

derobert

17:54

Hey, you all didn't give me five to get in my comment about why I VtC'd :-p

(Just kidding.)

Carpetsmoker

@yo' So you need to install either vim-enhanced, or vim-X11 ?

I think vimx may be linked to libX11, and that vim isn't?

You can check with ldd /bin/vim | grep libX

yo'

@Carpetsmoker the important thing is that:

[tohecz@toheshiba sage]$ ll /bin/vimx
lrwxrwxrwx. 1 root root 4 Feb 20 18:23 /bin/vimx -> gvim

Carpetsmoker

ah, so you're really starting gVim, and not Vim inside a terminal?

yo'

@Carpetsmoker yep. But it starts in the xterm mode, not in the X11 mode

[tohecz@toheshiba sage]$ ldd /bin/vimx | grep libX
	libXt.so.6 => /lib64/libXt.so.6 (0x00000034d5200000)
	libX11.so.6 => /lib64/libX11.so.6 (0x0000003528000000)
	libXfixes.so.3 => /lib64/libXfixes.so.3 (0x0000003529800000)
	libXrender.so.1 => /lib64/libXrender.so.1 (0x000000352a400000)
	libXinerama.so.1 => /lib64/libXinerama.so.1 (0x0000003976600000)
	libXi.so.6 => /lib64/libXi.so.6 (0x000000352a800000)
	libXrandr.so.2 => /lib64/libXrandr.so.2 (0x0000003975800000)
	libXcursor.so.1 => /lib64/libXcursor.so.1 (0x0000003974800000)

derobert

they do different things based on the called name on Debian, too:

anthony@Zia:~$ readlink -f $(command -v vim)
/usr/bin/vim.gnome
anthony@Zia:~$ readlink -f $(command -v gvim)
/usr/bin/vim.gnome

Carpetsmoker

18:02

IIRC gvim is just a link to vim, and means vim -g

yo'

nono, gvim is a separate exec here

Carpetsmoker

[~]% lc /bin/gvim
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 3 Feb 4 17:03 /bin/gvim -> vim*

yo'

[tohecz@toheshiba sage]$ ll /bin/*vim* /bin/vi
lrwxrwxrwx. 1 root root       4 Feb 20 18:23 /bin/evim -> gvim
-rwxr-xr-x. 1 root root 2628528 Oct 13 10:57 /bin/gvim
lrwxrwxrwx. 1 root root       4 Feb 20 18:23 /bin/gvimdiff -> gvim
-rwxr-xr-x. 1 root root     143 Oct 13 10:56 /bin/gvimtutor
lrwxrwxrwx. 1 root root       3 Nov  8 15:23 /bin/rvim -> vim
-rwxr-xr-x. 1 root root  921936 Oct 13 10:57 /bin/vi
-rwxr-xr-x. 1 root root 2363216 Oct 13 10:57 /bin/vim
lrwxrwxrwx. 1 root root       3 Nov  8 15:23 /bin/vimdiff -> vim

Carpetsmoker

Right

I just have the gvim package (Arch)

yo'

@Carpetsmoker ah, I have a lot of packages :)

Carpetsmoker

18:03

Which conflicts with the vim package

The gvim package also provides /bin/vim for me

yo'

@Carpetsmoker ah that sucks :( Fedora seems to have things sorted out nicely, but not exactly intuitively, as you see

Carpetsmoker

And Fedora does that different, you could install just gvim, or just vim

Well, it's just a few bytes of disk space; who cares, really

derobert

And Debian lets you install a lot of vims at once. In fact, there are a bunch of X11 ones missing in that answer...

But vim-gtk and vim-gnome are probably the two you want. So it's fine.

(But someone uses the athena one, I guess?)

Carpetsmoker

@derobert I checked the debian package site, I also saw athena and motif and whatnot

And I would assume that provides +clipboard, but can't test it, and I doubt anyone who doesn't know what it is already, would want to know it

derobert

Yep. I think actually the plain 'vim' package should work too, but haven't tested. vim-tiny and vim-nox shouldn't.

yo'

18:06

well, in Debian and Fedora, mostly package-whatever is just a plugin/extension called whatever for program package :)

derobert

@yo' yes, and if you install all the vim-* variants, maybe then finally you can approach the size of the other editor.

yo'

@derobert you mean the OS-in-OS? :D

Carpetsmoker

I really dislike the separation of the "main" package and header files in Debian & Fedora ... Whenever I want to compile something I need to spend time tracking down the correct -devel or -dev packages :-/

derobert

@yo' Yes, though the inner OS would be much better if it had a good vim port. Maybe Neovim will add that :-P

Carpetsmoker

Packages (2) gvim-7.4.617-1 vim-runtime-7.4.617-1

Total Installed Size: 27.85 MiB

Packages (1) emacs-24.4-2

Total Installed Size: 99.53 MiB

yo'

18:11

@Carpetsmoker with me it's fine. The idea is that most programs have three packages: program.your_arch, program-common.noarch and program-devel.noarch

Carpetsmoker

It's not that big of a difference, it's not like Vim is "small"...

derobert

@Carpetsmoker It saves a lot of disk space on systems which don't need all the development headers (and static libs, etc.)

Carpetsmoker

Header files are just a few bytes?

yo'

where program.your_arch contains just the execs and .so's

Carpetsmoker

And static libs could be a different package, maybe

But >99% systems don't care about a few MB, and those that do care, usually use specialized builds anyway

derobert

18:14

@Carpetsmoker Its not a few MB. Its a few GB. Given, if the static libs were in their own package, that'd help a lot there. Though /usr/include on my system is 200M...

Carpetsmoker

200M isn't that much

IMHO

(It's 250M for me)

yo'

@Carpetsmoker 54M here :)

user4704

@yo' I'm not sure what you are referring to?

yo'

@JoshPetrie nothing now probably. You were discussing my Q before, so you could have let me know :)

derobert

@Carpetsmoker No, it'd probably be bigger if I had more -dev packages installed. But still well under 1GB. The .a files OTOH...

user4704

18:17

Oh, I didn't bring it up (or follow the question link), I was just responding to what Carpetsmoker asked and the summary.

derobert

@yo' you weren't on the pingable list before in chat. Though I guess that doesn't stop mods.

user4704

It does.

user4704

I'd rather not superping somebody unless it's actually urgent.

derobert

Makes sense.

user4704

It's kind of annoying to do.

Carpetsmoker

18:18

Static libs seem to be ~750M for me BTW

yo'

@JoshPetrie yeah I know.

@Carpetsmoker who would care about couple MB?

4.2G	sage-6.4-x86_64-Linux/
1.2G	texlive/2010
1.3G	texlive/2011
1.7G	texlive/2012
3.7G	texlive/2013
4.1G	texlive/2014

Carpetsmoker

Well, TeX-live is very big? That's maybe one of the exceptions, I think

yo'

@Carpetsmoker remember that most of it are fonts and documentation. The versions 10-12 are without doc, so they're mmuch smaller

Carpetsmoker

All I'm saying, is that I would rather have a few extra MB on my system than spend 15 minutes looking up the correct -dev packages every time I want to quickly compile something

derobert

@Carpetsmoker auto-apt ...

I think I have some code sitting around to find all the relevant -dbg packages (which are many gigabytes on your average desktop install). I bet I can have it spit out -dev instead.

Carpetsmoker

18:21

That has debug symbols I think?

derobert

@Carpetsmoker Yeah, debug symbols are huge. That's why they get their own packages.

Carpetsmoker

Yeah, that makes sense

yo'

I think that you could make a yum/apt trigger that installs $x-devel package for every $x installed if it exists...

derobert

Currently have >4GB of debug symbols installed. That'd be an entire install DVD (or several CDs), so I know why those aren't installed by default

Carpetsmoker

Well, I don't have any systems with apt-get anymore. My laptop came with Ubuntu when I got it, but after 2 months apt-get drove me away, so well ... :-)

yo'

18:23

@Carpetsmoker so what do you use?

Carpetsmoker

Arch Linux, which is sort of okay

yo'

and there's no pkg manager?

derobert

@yo' It's a little harder than that, as the development package for x isn't always x-dev. E.g., sometimes one source package builds several binary packages, but all those share one -dev package.

Carpetsmoker

@yo' What? Of course it has a package manager (pacman)

yo'

@derobert but most often it'll be oneofthem-dev or oneofthem-devel

@Carpetsmoker and pacman doesn't have triggers?

Carpetsmoker

18:25

I don't know? ... I get just header files by default with pacman, so I don't have to think about it

pacman seems to "just work" and do what I want without surprises, so I never had to dig into it (which is good, and unlike apt-get)

derobert

@yo' Yes, for most of them. Unfortunately not all.

Carpetsmoker

tmp.arp242.net/apt-fail.txt

You tell me how that makes sense :-/

@muru FYI: meta.vi.stackexchange.com/a/1225/51 :-)

derobert

@Carpetsmoker Ubuntu loves adding dependencies on various gnome bits...

Carpetsmoker

So?

I ask it to install consolekit, and it blows away half my system instead

(And shows this in a overly long & convoluted output)

yo'

@Carpetsmoker :) I don't like Ubuntu myself

Carpetsmoker

18:31

Isn't Ubuntu just Debian with some extra GUI stuff?

derobert

@Carpetsmoker It also says it's removing consolekit. It appears you asked it to install a 32-bit consolekit on a 64-bit system.

yo'

@Carpetsmoker not really. It's a close fork. Simiarly to Fedora and CentOS in some sense

Carpetsmoker

@derobert That's not such a strange thing to do? I needed it as a dependency for a 32bit program (and I did eventually install it, through some other package, I forgot which, 32bit-libs or some such)

derobert

@Carpetsmoker consolekit is the daemon, you probably wanted libck-connector0:i386

Carpetsmoker

Perhaps, still, there are many more scenarios

user4704

18:33

Sometimes powershell's pipeline binding shenanigans make me nervous.

Carpetsmoker

Where it does very unexpected things

yo'

We gossip Ubuntu and @Seth arrives. Now we're screwed :D

Seth

>:D

derobert

@Carpetsmoker Yeah, it's not always the easiest thing to understand why it's doing something that appears nonsensical. Sometimes aptitude can help...

Seth

Say that to a non technical person and it becomes an insult :p

yo'

18:36

@Seth what?

Seth

@Carpetsmoker That's funny, because my friend left Arch for Debian/Ubuntu because pacman drove him crazy xD

Carpetsmoker

@Seth Oh really?

It always worked for me without problems

Seth

@yo' "What do you mean I don't have aptitude?!?" ;)

derobert

Hey, I used code formatting! :-P

yo'

@Seth LOL!!!

Carpetsmoker

18:38

That reminds me of: unixprogram.com/churchofbsd

One day I was at a restaurant explaining process control to one of my disciples.
I was mentioning how we have to kill the children (child processes) if they become unresponsive. Or we can even set an alarm for the children to kill themselves. That the parent need to wait (wait3) and acknowledge that the child has died or else it will become a zombie.
The look of horror the woman sitting across had was unforgettable. I tried to explain it was a computer software thing but it was too late, she fled terrified, probably to call the police or something. I didn't really want to stick around too l…

Seth

@Carpetsmoker hahaha!

@Carpetsmoker What's even funnier is that I've never had any real dependency issues with apt, just a few simple ones when I did something screwy (like trying to mix nodejs versions after they renamed the packages).

Haven't tried Arch myself yet, Windows 10 is on the third partition and I'm not quite ready to wipe it away.

yo'

@Seth I only get these problems when I manually install something that has not been properly packages.

derobert

Yeah. Things just work as long as you stick to official distro packages.

Carpetsmoker

From the moment I got my laptop I've had nothing but troubles with apt-get ... The first thing I did was install pekwm (my WM of choice) and remove Unity ... This blew away my wireless drivers, which I was unable to reinstall (my wired network here) ... I had to a "recovery reinstall" from the Dell system partition :-/

yo'

@derobert which is very easy with Debain's policy on providing sources to everything and on what is "free license". We on TeX - LaTeX.SE recommend everybody to never install Debain's texlive, and the main dev for preparing Debain packages has claimed he'll give up.

Seth

18:44

@Carpetsmoker Yes, Unity is a system dependency, removing it is pretty tricky.

Carpetsmoker

I've always felt that apt-get is one of those programs that tries to be too smart; it's great when it works, but when it fails, it really, really fails

Seth

Well it has never failed for me, so I guess I'm lucky :)

Carpetsmoker

:-)

Seth

I think I should also mention we fixed the ia32-libs mess a while ago :D

70

Q: What happened to the ia32-libs package?

The ia32-libs package is no longer present in Ubuntu 12.04 repositories for a 64bit system. Are there any available replacement packages available for download?

multiarch

Carpetsmoker

Other than apt-get, my impression of Ubuntu was good btw, so it's not all bad :-)

derobert

18:46

@yo' Curious why that is. I've never had a problem with Debian's TeXLive. But I guess I don't need all the newest TeX stuff.

yo'

@derobert the problem is that you don't want 9000 debain package for TL, do you?

and that's only one of the problems.

you've got hundreds of package authors, and thousands of updates a year.

Seth

@Carpetsmoker Oh it's not for everyone, I'm fine with you not liking it. I hope I'm not coming across as all "defend Ubuntu!" because it really isn't perfect. But I'm glad your impression wasn't too bad :)

derobert

@yo' I just install texlive-full. Works well enough.

Now, given, if I wanted to be sure I had the latest version of CTAN package X, etc., that'd be a problem.

yo'

@derobert unless you need anything newer than 12 months. And it may soon stop working, because the PDF documentation is not compilable from sources. The dependencies in LaTeX are very tricky.

@derobert yep, because using tlmgr is not a way: it would likely clash with the package installer.

So the way we'll likely go is that you'lll install texlive-install, which will be just an installer. But I'm not in charge of these things. Fortunately.

derobert

Yeah, I've never run tlmgr. But I'm a casual user of TeX, so I've never hit the limitations...

yo'

18:52

@derobert I understand. But when you come across a bug which has been solved, you'll get into the hard times. THat's the problem.

Anyways, I gotta go, so see you laaater

derobert

@yo' TeX has bugs? :-P Yeah, that would be annoying. Anyway, goodbye.

I think I'm going to head to lunch myself.

yo'

22:50

@derobert Yes, it probably has. The last release of a new version of original TeX by Don E. Knuth was approx. a year ago

WChargin

23:42

@kenorb: I rolled back your edit to my answer. IMO, there's no reason to downcase shortcuts, because that's how they're written in the help manual. If new users find them confusing (though I don't imagine how CTRL-O could be misinterpreted, especially considering that it doesn't matter whether you're holding shift), they'll have to learn this syntax anyway, since it's the standard.

If there's a meta post or something indicating that the lowercase version is preferred, please let me know and I'll be happy to change it back.

yo'

@WChargin I would personally prefer ^o, but that's just me. (Note that ^o is not the same as ^O)

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