Math Mods' Office - 2021-05-13

1:04 AM

@XanderHenderson I have no idea what this user is talking about in this (now deleted) message to me, in a room where I don't really tend to "hang out", but I can say that I didn't appreciate the ping:

Verónica Rmz.

2:28 AM

@NikeDattani ..I checked your profile and woah, looks like very complicated advanced computer science combined with math and then chemistry and AI or machine learning, heh

Nike Dattani

2:43 AM

@VerónicaRmz. That's quite a good description of the combination of areas in which I work. I actually just finished some work on the logo for my SE site:

Xander Henderson

12:50 PM

@NikeDattani I don't know what to tell you, and I am not sure what outcome you are expecting here.

I agree that the message was a little confrontational. However, there is context which makes the comment entirely understandable. I am sorry that you don't have that context.

On the other hand, here you are, calling out that user in public.

In the future, please use flags.

Verónica Rmz.

3:58 PM

@NikeDattani I see +1.

Nike Dattani

4:56 PM

@XanderHenderson What is the context that makes the comment entirely understandable? Furthermore, perhaps you didn't know this but, I tried to flag it and it didn't work because the message was already deleted.

Nike Dattani

6:28 PM

Deleted messages in chat cannot be flagged.

Xander Henderson

7:13 PM

@NikeDattani The message was already deleted. What more do you want?

Nike Dattani

@XanderHenderson First of all I'd like you to tell me what context makes the comment "entirely understandable".

Xander Henderson

Regarding context, a couple of users have been harassing amWhy via chat recently, using accounts parented away from Math SE. While you are not that user, this does make the reaction understandable.

Nike Dattani

Okay, thanks for filling me in on that context. I wasn't one of those users though, correct?

Xander Henderson

Beyond that, I would invite you to calm down and assume good faith.

No, you are not one of those users.

Nike Dattani

What exactly do you mean by "assume good faith" ?

Xander Henderson

7:17 PM

You came in here an publicly called out another user. Why not just try to engage with that user?

Nike Dattani

7:36 PM

@XanderHenderson Perhaps could you answer my question before I answer yours? What do you mean by "assume good faith" in this case?

Xander Henderson

I replied to your question, and my question was rhetorical. In any case, I am in a meeting now, and will not be available for a couple of hours.

amWhy

psychology.wikia.org/wiki/Assume_good_faith

Nike Dattani

@XanderHenderson You replied to the question, but didn't "answer' it, so I'm not quite satisfied with the response. Maybe you think I'm being unreasonable, but you told me to "assume good faith".

amWhy

@Nike I am sorry I offended you in some way. That was not my intention, and it happened precisely during a time in which I was being harassed. I don't want to elaborate, because that user, like you, was following me around. And behaving very badly. I am sorry that you were an innocent victim in what I felt was my need to protect myself. In any case, the bottom line is I'm sorry that you felt offended.

Nike Dattani

"like you, was following me around" -- I haven't been following you around.

amWhy

7:50 PM

@NikeDattani The other user proved to be, and in that context, I saw you everywhere I was, and didn't know who to trust. I was trying to edit that portion of what I just wrote, because I do not believe you were following me around. You seem to work in an area that intersects with chats that might be of interest to you.

Nike Dattani

Yea, well the other day someone said that I'm in 200 chat rooms

amWhy

There's no crime in being in many chatrooms, and you aren't ever rude or anything. I just want you to know I am sorry if I offended you.

@NikeDattani I wouldn't know; I spend most of my time in math.se sites, though occasionally go elsewhere, but not regularly.

Nike Dattani

I mean, since I'm in quite a lot of chat rooms, it's not usual for you and I to be in the same room sometimes. This does not mean I'm following you. Thanks for acknowledging that in your last messages here.

amWhy

@NikeDattani I understand that. Are we okay now? :-)

lone student

@XanderHenderson Hi! Good evening. I have a question. If someone down-votes 20 different questions in 1 minute, what is your site policy on that. I sent a question with a flag, but there was no answer. I want to know this. There shouldn't be anything secret / politics here. Thanks.

Nike Dattani

8:06 PM

@lonestudent 20 questions in 1 minute means they haven't read the questions in much detail. Did they downvote the same user every time? Then it would be considered "serial downvoting" and the votes should get reversed, and the user will often get an automatic 7-day suspension or at least a warning.

Arctic Char

@lonestudent Just curious, how do you know someone did that?

amWhy

@lonestudent All on one person's account?

lone student

@NikeDattani Hi. Serial voting is already in question here. There is no problem with the quality of my downvoted questions . My votes have already returned. But what policy was applied to the user who did this? I want to learn this.

@ArcticChar This is obvious. In 1 minute You got 20 downvote. This is not a "normal process".

Nike Dattani

@lonestudent Okay so if the votes were already reversed, then it means they serial voted and the votes were simply reversed. The consequences for that can range from nothing, to getting a suspension.

lone student

@NikeDattani Thank you for response. I probably won't know who did this. It doesn't matter anyway. If he/she received at least one warning, it is sufficient.

Nike Dattani

8:19 PM

@lonestudent They will get a notification saying that their votes were reversed.

This is usually enough of a signal to them: "don't serial vote again, because we have ways to know you're doing it".

lone student

@amWhy Of course. You probably remember when I asked about it in the meta.

amWhy

@lonestudent Yes, have they been reversed?

lone student

@amWhy Yes. Reversed.

Nike Dattani

If someone downvotes all of one user's questions within a short period, and there's enough downvotes in total, and they've not downvoted a lot of other people, I believe it's possible for them to get an automatic 7-day suspension. In either case though, they'll get the signal that they shouldn't do serial voting.

lone student

@NikeDattani good warning message. I liked.

@NikeDattani Thank you for explanation. I think this signal is "automatic" massage, not by mods. Am I right?

Nike Dattani

8:24 PM

Yea it's almost always done automatically.

lone student

@NikeDattani Is the suspension automatic too?..

Nike Dattani

The only time a mod would interfere is if you flag their attention.

amWhy

@lonestudent That's not entirely accurate. The culprit is not "always", or even often, notified with a warning, and suspension is never automatic.

Nike Dattani

@lonestudent If you read my message 2 above yours, you'll see that I did write "automatic 7-day suspension" ... that post contains pretty much all I know about the situation.

amWhy

@NikeDattani That is just not true, @Nike. I think I need to retract my apology. Maybe in some other site, but not here.

@lone student "possible" 7 day suspension: only upon moderator action. Never automatic.

lone student

8:27 PM

@NikeDattani Thanks. I missed.

Nike Dattani

I thought it's possible for automatic suspensions to occur, but it might be the case that a mod always has to push a button for it:

12

Q: Are suspensions automated?

I just came across a user who has been suspended for over 10 years (to 'cool down'). This seems unrealistic, as we can see that 10 years ago SE didn't even exist (meaning, a lot can change in that time period). It seems unlikely that a moderator will impose a suspension of that duration, as a yea...

quid

@NikeDattani there are no automatic suspensions. There are automatic bans for specific actions though. Also there are automatic chat suspensions based on flags. A suspension on a site always requires a manual action, except say for a network wide ban that is propagated automatically.

Nike Dattani

@quid What about suspensions that are from the "Community User" ?

There is apparently an automatic suspension for certain deleted users: "the system will automatically levy a 14-day suspension at the same time the account is deleted, with no corresponding moderator message. Normally, this automatic suspension isn't visible to anyone, so this doesn't matter..." but it's not what happened in this case.

quid

@NikeDattani that should be the propagations and related.

Nike Dattani

@quid What do you mean by "the propagations" ?

quid

8:37 PM

@NikeDattani accounts can get suspended network wide in that case if you sign up elsewhere the account will be autosuspedned. I'm not sure if it will show up as community or from the original suspender.

Indeed as you mentioned there are also some things related to deletion.

Nike Dattani

@quid So on Meta.SE there was 216 suspensions from the "Community" user (i.e. not by mods). Aren't those automatic?

When would someone be auto-suspended by the "Community" user? I think being flagged too many times is one of the reasons, but not the only one.

quid

@NikeDattani it depends what one means by automatic. I think if a user gets suspended, deletes their account and then signs up again they will be suspended again.

In an automated way.

What I meant to convey is that an account suspension always is preceded by some manual intervention of a moderator (or CM).

Nike Dattani

Except I suppose in the case where an account is "destroyed" then the user tries to come back within 14 days?

quid

@NikeDattani then the destruction is the manual intervention.

Nike Dattani

@quid Accounts can't be automatically destroyed for being flagged too many times?

quid

8:44 PM

@NikeDattani no

Nike Dattani

it seems that 1000+ accounts were "destroyed" in 2020 on Meta.SE but only 216 automatic suspensions were made, so perhaps those were only the accounts that tried to come back after being destroyed:

21

Q: 2020: a year in moderation

As we say goodbye to the old year and welcome the new one, we have a tradition of sharing moderation stats for the past 12 months. As most of you here are aware, sites on the Stack Exchange network are moderated somewhat differently to other sites on the web: We designed the Stack Exchange netw...

discussion meta moderation statistics

quid

Posts can get deleted for getting flagged.

Nike Dattani

Okay

quid

@NikeDattani this seems plausible.

Nike Dattani

On this site there's no "users destroyed" stat listed:

So it's hard to test my hypothesis regarding how suspensions by the Community user work:

7

Q: 2020: a year in moderation

As we say goodbye to the old year and welcome the new one, we have a tradition of sharing moderation stats for the past 12 months. As most of you here are aware, sites on the Stack Exchange network are moderated somewhat differently to other sites on the web: We designed the Stack Exchange netw...

discussion moderation statistics

Xander Henderson

9:15 PM

@lonestudent Usually, 20 downvotes in a minute will be overturned by automatic systems within a day or two. If not, raise a flag.

Flags about voting often take time to resolve, as invalidating votes requires some investigation, and may require escalation to the Community Moderators.

→ 3 messages moved to Trashcan

@lonestudent Ah, okay. Good.

lone student

@XanderHenderson A long time has passed. My votes reversed. Actually, the question I wanted to ask was different. But I could get a general opinion.

Xander Henderson

@lonestudent No. A suspension would require moderator intervention.

lone student

@XanderHenderson Thank you for response. I got it.

Xander Henderson

Note that there are other automatic sanctions. If a user posts a large number of low quality questions, they can automatically be "question banned", which prevents them from asking more questions.

Similar things apply to answers and to edits.

And accounts which post a lot of spam are usually quickly blocked from posting.

But a suspension (rep set to 1, all posting privileges removed, etc) can only be done with moderator intervention.

lone student

Thanks for clarifications. @XanderHenderson

lone student

10:11 PM

Although this question was closed, he received an answer. What do you think is going on?

2

Q: Prove $2^{3^k}+1$ is a multiple of $3^k$

I need to prove by induction that $2^{3^n}+1$ is a multiple of $3^n$ for any natural number n. Assuming it holds true for $k$, I need to prove it holds true for $k+1$. So I guess I need to show that $2^{3^{k+1}}+1$ is a multiple of $3^k$? I don't really know where to start with this, even a hint ...

discrete-mathematics proof-writing induction

I mean question received an answer.

amWhy

The time stamp of the question, is not the time it was closed, @lonestudent. It was closed an hour ago. Ohh, yes, I see an answer with the time stamp of 18 minutes ago. That is unusual!

lone student

10:27 PM

@amWhy I wanted to ask in the meta. I give up.

amWhy

@lonestudent Why weren't you able to ask there? Don't give up! You're a valuable contributor!

Xander Henderson

11:39 PM

My understanding is that the the check regarding whether or not an answer can be posted is handled client side. Thus it is possible to start writing an answer before the question is closed, then submit the answer after it is closed.

On desktop browsers, this is controlled a bit better, but the mobile version of the site (or the mobile app? I don't know; I don't use a mobile device for this site...) is more borken.

lone student

11:54 PM

I want to ask a question. But I am not sure which room is suitable. The reputation that we earn by asking questions on certain tags does not increase the reputation we earn by answering questions on the same tags, is that correct?

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$Mathematics$ Math Mods' Office