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12:00 AM
well, I told him his question sucked, so he removed the question
So now he's compiling a list of MMO resources and questions?
Thanks @Noctrine
hah, did you do that @Noctrine?
I broke the speed of... rep?
Broke the speed?
nm, I thought I was further from 3000
When I see people are close I go and read a few of their answers and see if I can push them up.
I don't get as much time to read everything that gets posted here as I used to
So now I can help close some of this stuff
lol, what? He's still editing his closed "question"
12:07 AM
Yeah, questioning locking it
hmm, well... maybe people looking to ask "How do I make an MMO?" will find it
@Noctrine I've just noticed your name is blue
That it is
I just noticed that revision history includes side-by-side view
while others names are black
12:11 AM
Site Moderators are also ex-officio chat moderators
At least, on Stack Exchange. SO chat has different moderators
@Jimmy Cool
Being blue gives you superpowers (Source: Doctor Manhattan)
@Gajet - relevant to our earlier conversation: thebookoffreak.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/…
For the most part I haven't see anything different than what being a room owner has. (Well, it's for all rooms). The only big thing is when someone anywhere says something that gets flagged everyone gets a little notice.
@tylerrrr07 define earlier...
12:13 AM
Oh, and other mods can summon you.
"yay, I can do 3D Mom!" or something like that
@Noctrine I guess you can delete things after others don't
Summon you?
and you can manipulate others starts/post. that's a thing owners can't do
@tylerrrr07 we have a good example in Persian,
I can't really translate it, but it's the matter of life and death
actually a kings statement to forgive or punish someone,
I think flags go out to all users above X rep, it's not a mod thing
12:18 AM
@tylerrrr07 OOhhhh, double entendre! nice
well, at least we get chat-notifications. we don't get it in our SE bar
now I'm wondering, do the trusted users (those with above 20k rep) have all the power moderators have?
Ah, then yeah. Its just that
Aside from the binding close votes, and a few other things yes.
But all of those things are really just more janitorial. Aside from question merging I've used all the other things combined less than maybe 10-20 times
He just keeps going
12:44 AM
:/ I can't find our discussion about community wikis, and where we thought we'd try to forward those sorts of topics to gpwiki
it's linked on one of the meta questions
A: 'Getting started' questions - shouldn't we have something for this?

TetradWe've somewhat already discussed this. A small idea to prevent new users from posting subjective questions We kind of already do have questions we can point beginners to, they're just closed. Must read game development books Good game design books? Free ebooks about game development What ar...

Jan 17 at 18:28, by thedaian
frankly, i'd either have a single massive, useful community wiki question for resources we can point to and close any other "where do i" questions, or have something like gpwiki.org be linked in the FAQ under the header "where do i.... questions", or something
yeah, that's a familiar name
just got an email from linkedin asking me to reset my password
did they leak?
So I heard, yeah
1:09 AM
@WilliamMindWorXMariager, do you have an online repo for that AwesomiumComponent?
Programmer art!
It's Dr. Horrible!
Where's his freeze ray?
Not on the list of priorities hehe
Priority 1 - get him animating
1:15 AM
heh, nice
For walking would it look awful if you just reversed the animation once in full swing?
@JohnMcDonald Nope.
At rest -> Begin walk -> Middle of Walk -> Full Swing -> (reverse)
Full Swing -> Middle of Walk -> Begin Walk -> At Rest
Did the new firefox change how scrolling looks? It looks all... different...
1:22 AM
So basically only use 4 frames for the 7 frames of animation?
@WilliamMindWorXMariager so... I'd like it to be in a repo/project somewhere. I've got a slightly more updated version than you, and I'd like to continue using it. What do we/you want to do?
Didn't you already create an XNA Awesomium repo?
Umm, yeah, kinda, you want me to just upgrade that repo?
Sounds like the easiest choice.
actually... I think i might want to/need to make a new repo that will do stuff like output a dll, much like the other projects I have
@tylerrrr07 and before I get too carried away on awesomium, if the legs are both black, it should be too bad
so, anyway, you don't seem to really care too much? I'll make an awesomium component project & repo, somewhere, and be done with it?
1:33 AM
Sounds like a good plan. :) And yeah, doesn't really matter to me, as long as we get it somewhere people can see, with some tags so it'll show up on google. :P
An other friend of mine noticed that bitbucket doesn't really seem to support teams, or collaborative efforts very well. All of the urls use the creator's user id. Bitbucket is working on it, but in the meantime, they suggest a shared account. Kinda lame, and not really possible for our situation
Is there support for merc?
I... Don't know...
I thought there was, even thought the site name suggests otherwise
maybe not eh?
1:39 AM
I'm pretty sure it's just git.
yeah, prob
What about codeplex? Apparently it supports mercurial.
@WilliamMindWorXMariager So... I'd vote that you create a merc bitbucket repo, and I commit to it
It'll be in your name, but I don't care, I'll still link to it and maintain it
Repo name?
@RichardMarskellDrackir Nothing against codeplex, just that both of us have bitbucket accounts
@WilliamMindWorXMariager Sure
1:43 AM
Wiki and/or Issue Tracker?
Maybe a wiki, screenshots or something
Never used the issue tracker, but I'd imagine that 90%+ of the issues would have to be with awesomium
it can't hurt, I suppose
Description: "A complete XNA friendly implementation of Awesomium."?
umm, sure
@JohnMcDonald Ah no worries. It just seemed more team-friendly.
Ahh, right
1:49 AM
@John, You should've received an invite.
already on it
2:33 AM
Well the animation is horrible but he's animating!
2:51 AM
Red: Completely Blocking
Grey: Only Block the Top (Can land on, otherwise pass through)
White: No Collision
White and Cornflower-Blue*
CFB is the background so I didn't count it. :P
Its not really an object being rendered to the screen like the white box is
All the boxes are the same class, with different properties
Oh snap. I need to separate out my texture rectangle and my collision rectangle. He currently can hover because his feet aren't quite as wide as the whole texture
@WilliamMindWorXMariager Hey, I think we can make a team
on bitbucket
Team name?
3:06 AM
3:18 AM
I'm bad at names.
heh, that sounds like it's all me though
Great minds btw. I was toying with MindCell. :P
I could do MindCell
One of us needs to own the team, and we need to use an email address that isn't used already
I have a spare email address
hmm... this unique email thing is proving to be annoying. I also need to make a team for me and an other friend. So does that mean I need to have 3 email addresses?
3:28 AM
@JohnMcDonald - what about going to the Admin Tab of a repo and then to Access Management?
yeah... what the deal is, is that they have just added a "team" feature. Without the team, each repo shows up under the creator's name, as in: bitbucket.org/jcpmcdonald/asteroid-outpost/wiki/Home
Adding more people to the project doesn't really give them any recognition as being part of the team
A better example is a shared project: bitbucket.org/jcpmcdonald/quadtree/wiki/Home
Where can you see the other guy's name? You can't. That's why I have to explicitly mention him in the description of the project
He has admin access to the project btw
Did he do any commits or anything?
no, he played a big er role on source forge, but was never really present because he's not actively using the projects
3:36 AM
3:48 AM
@WilliamMindWorXMariager yeah, my other email address is used up for my other team, and there's no way I want to try to keep 3 email addresses up to date and secure. Do you have one?
or... screw it, I will just use the existing repo, it just makes things easier, :)
4:06 AM
ehhh. I come across this on every project. Do you keep visual studio's default bin directory structure, and where do you put external references?
as in:
So, do you add a directory at the same level as bin, and when you refer to it, do you add "..\..\..\" to the start of every file path?
4:29 AM
Programmer Art!
Not bad man
better than mine
much better than anything i could do, lol
Inkscape is pretty easy
Create box, apply gradient hehe
Create another box, move some verts, looks 3d!
Alright so a status as of now... I can hodge podge all of that together and my objects to support it are more or less there. Next steps will be to do an import from Gleed2D to generate the level
Feels good being productive in my spare time again :D
4:38 AM
Didn't copy the right thing
Aww I wasn't done reading it :(
looked like a good rant
:/ yeah... I saw that... or did I?
it was
Not by Noc though
Q: Resources such as libraries, engines and frameworks to make Javacript-based MMORTS?

hhhI am looking for resources outlined to make a MMORTS with Javascript as the client-side, probably just a simple canvas for the frontend. The guy in the video here mentions that JavaScript is one of the most misunderstood language -- and I do believe that. I think one can make quite cool games wit...

Can I call you Noc?
4:39 AM
Noc Noc
Don't start that again
Not twice.
Interestingly enough, to make the @ thing alert someone you only need 3 characters.
4:40 AM
@JohnMcDonald Don't start what John John?
Speaking of arts, here's what I'm using for the base of my characters
Has the perfect size for what I need.
14 revisions, seriously.
4:41 AM
It's still technically not a good question for the site either =/
He's trying hard to make a community wiki to help people trying to make an mmo, I think
I love the question and the effort he put into it... maybe give him a wiki for funzies? I dunno :(
It's already wiki.
So, back to my old question... Did Firefox change the way the site scroll when using the wheel?
It seems more... Smooth, like slow acceleration/deceleration.
not that I'm aware of
4:43 AM
I use waterfox which seems to fail to update so beats me
@WilliamMindWorXMariager Ohh.... that I would notice in a heartbeat
Well, it's definitely animated, didn't use to be that as far as I know.
It used to just jump whatever lines it wanted.
I might have to get that on my laptop because I use the multitouch scrolling on the trackpad and the jumping annoys the hell out of me.
Options -> Advanced -> General -> Smooth Scrolling and Auto Scrolling
Well, I'm off to bed.
Cya kids, cya John John. <3
4:46 AM
Until tomorrow
:| bill bill
4 hours later…
8:40 AM
@WilliamMindWorXMariager really thought you were going with robot shapes.
5 hours later…
1:47 PM
youtube.com/watch?v=Oz2jzg5-x7A&feature=autoshare my new game for Windows Phone :)
1 hour later…
2:52 PM
YouTube!!!! shakes fist!
3:04 PM
@Michael +1
It's a nice video, but I still have no idea what the game is about
I decree, that as developers, we will know longer say +1
From now on we will say ++
(I think you mean "no longer", but:) ++
Oh no lol
Can't edit it either
Sometimes my fingers just type a word that sounds like what I want. I really know the difference between the two xD
3:21 PM
we might believe that.
3:38 PM
\o/ My first close vote!
high five!
Oh which?
Was it the killing blow? Those are the best.
Ah yes, I voted on that one two. Obviously, now, as it lists us all :D
I was thinking to myself: "man, a mod should close this, WAIT! I can close this!"
so I guess we're just going to sit back and see what happens with that MMO Wiki?
3:49 PM
I think its dead =/
Well, it has been closed, but I think he's still trying to keep it alive
MMO wiki?
Q: Resources such as libraries, engines and frameworks to make Javacript-based MMORTS?

hhhI am looking for resources outlined to make a MMORTS with Javascript as the client-side, probably just a simple canvas for the frontend. The guy in the video here mentions that JavaScript is one of the most misunderstood language -- and I do believe that. I think one can make quite cool games wit...

heh, good thing I didn't triple-paste it
3:55 PM
at almost exactly same time
i edited it. :D
I'll cave
i want to vote to delete :D
Like... how useful is this list? It's basically a sorted list of search results that will become out of date
@JoshPetrie me2
3:58 PM
yeah... I don't think it's a good fit
It's not, and I'm a bit worried that he might just keep editing it and basically abusing the system.
I guess, unless I could edit it because of my rep? Can you guys see the "edit" link for the question?
:/ yeah. Maybe he can create an article on gpwiki
yup, and we can see all 15 edits
in like 15 hours
Hm, looks like vote-to-delete is a 10k thing, so that probably won't happen.
:/ yeah, I can't help you
4:00 PM
Oh well, not a big deal.
Is there a certain number of downvotes to delete a post? Could be a good feature...
close by pitchfork mob
I started learning c++ as pretty much the first language myself, and I haven't shot myself in the foot too badly to date :)
well, of course there was delphi and prolog and java in school..
It's not that it's not possible, it's just a horrible language to learn first. It's built on a culture of assuming the programmer is experienced and correct.
It is among the worst possible (but still remotely sane) options for a learning language.
I'll admit I do stick to something that looks closer to C than templating the hell out of stuff :)
Templates aren't really the issue. I mean, they have their gotchas, but it's more fundamental language stuff.
templates and the stl make compiler errors really fun though
4:24 PM
And to be fair a good chunk of the problems are exacerbated by shit educational resources, such as anything that purports these days that C[++] is "close to the machine."
Yes (though it's just a comprehension skill and modern compilers help a lot). But that's still a superficial issue and not something innate to the language. I'm talking about things like sequence points, the object and memory model, and undefined behavior.
The sheer volume of self-inconsistencies and edge cases in the language is astounding.
hm, yeah maybe it's not the best choice as the first programming language ever to learn
I think delphi was pretty straight forward, apart from some wrestling with the win32 api
4:58 PM
Is twitter working? I know it used to be blocked at work but I somehow managed to read one of @JoshPetrie's statuses but now I can't get to twitter at all and its not the usual "you've been blocked" error message
Apparently its back now... weird.
@Gajet That was before. Now it's more "our time scifi". Kinda like Stargate.
Twitter is just weirdly out of control for me. I'll just stop trying.
That's awesome. <3
I miss that show. :(
:( yeah
5:26 PM
@JoshPetrie but it's close,
I mean it's close compared to other languages out there, but sure it now has a lot distance compared to what it was 10 years ago
Since it has been a standard, it has operated in terms of a virtual machine.
The first fifty odd pages of the standard describe this machine.
the machine it describes does everything that a Pentium 2 (or 3) machine can do and nothing more (at least as much as I can remember)
and I'm saying it's close, compared to other languages.
sure assembly is much more closer, but who the hell develops an application using assembly after 90s.
@JoshPetrie I think you got what I mean and if I'm wrong (which is not really a rare case against you!) please tell me more.
@JohnMcDonald @melak47 @WilliamMindWorXMariager how many people out there do you think could understand why the show was funny?
what do you mean?
there are people who don't find it funny?
you are shattering my view of the world here, man
5:42 PM
@Gajet It isn't to do with what the "machine can do," it has to do with what the standard documents the machine to be.
A CPU like a Pentium can address and write to any particular chunk of memory in its address space.
C++ explicitly cannot do that
But people still hold to the idea that because C++ will compile code that does that that C++ is thus "close to the machine" and representative of the behavior of the specific processor its being run on.
This is patently untrue.
See also, C++ will let you write a four byte value to an address that isn't four-byte aligned. Many CPUs will actually fault on such an operation.
C++ operates in a virtual, idealized machine that is much, much simpler than the actual hardware running C++ programs.
And it has done so ever since it was first standardized as a language.
@JoshPetrie Having not ever really studied the underlying workings of programming languages I found these posts interesting. Thanks!
You should (try) reading the C++ standard some time.
It's illuminating. And a pain in the butt.
I bet
The Koenig lookup rules are icky
I imagine the whole thing is icky lol
6:32 PM
@JoshPetrie hmm, say, can you think of any way to draw particles(or well, anything really) in distance order without drawing every triangle separately?
I don't understand what you mean; you aren't using individual quads for individual particles?
yes, well single vertices that get turned into quads/billboards by a geometry shader
You'd have to sort them back-to-front.
easy enough
but how do I draw them back to front
Submit them in sorted order.
6:42 PM
does the order in the index buffer really come out that way?
with all the parallel rasterizing, and what not
No, not necessarily.
If you've grouped them all into one buffer, you're basically out of luck.
yeah, that's what I meant..drawing each particle/billdboard/? individually
lots of draw calls
Yes, but you can bucket them in slabs.
Do you really need to sort them?
Usually they are noisy enough that you can't notice. See gamedev.stackexchange.com/questions/9436/…
@melak47 yeah there are lot's of them
well, additive blending isn't the end-all-be-all of transparency modes :/
6:46 PM
almost anyone who can't understand how the computer is working (and even some of the people who know how it's working) found that show lame
what do you think would be the bigger overhead, drawing a million particles with a million draw calls, or drawing them with stencil routed k-buffers, or depth peeling, or other order independent transparency tricks
@Gajet shocking :/
No idea, but I think a million draw calls is basically right out as it would preclude drawing just about anything else.
@JoshPetrie you are completely correct saying C++ does too much abstractions to be called "close to machine" but still what about other languages.
@Gajet like assembly? :)
Are there other languages that are called close to the machine?
6:49 PM
@melak47 assembly is considered machine code in those books, not close to machine code!
as far as I can tell, C and pascal and are as close as C++ is.
They both operate on virtual machines, yes.
So in that, they are about as "close to the machine" as C++, sure.
(which again is to say, not very close at all)
Is there anything that's between ASM and C, as far as closeness goes?
Assembly is just mnemonics for machine code. Any other language is written against an ideal model of a machine.
(Or a higher level abstraction than even that)
so isn't claiming that "C++ isn't close (enough) to the machine" kinda a worthless argument?
That depends.
6:56 PM
Since there's nothing in-between...C++ is as close as you're going to get, unless you write assembly
Microcode is a layer of hardware-level instructions or data structures involved in the implementation of higher level machine code instructions in many computers and other processors; it resides in special high-speed memory and translates machine instructions into sequences of detailed circuit-level operations. It helps separate the machine instructions from the underlying electronics so that instructions can be designed and altered more freely. It also makes it feasible to build complex multi-step instructions while still reducing the complexity of the electronic circuitry compared to othe...
just thought I'd add that into the mix
That's fair.
@TreDubZedd If it's a counter-agument to "C++ is close to machine, so learning it will teach me about how the machine works," then it is a worthwhile argument.
Ah, ok. I cede that point.
One of the classes I took, early in my CS degree, was intended to bridge the gap between the architecture and the programming language. We started out learning assembly (for a hypothetical processor)...and then jumped into C. The gap was not bridged--it was vaulted.
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