Watch those two short videos, and then think about what you want the feel of the game to be like.

thanks for those

And seriously, you should subscribe to both of those YouTube channels, they are full of great stuff on Game Design.

@PearsonArtPhoto mah man Extra credits is da bomb.

Hi guys, In the beginning of game dev journey (With having Java and android background) I tried to choose the best (multi-platform) and the brightest future framework/platform for starting deep dive into. I've reached the libgdx for now.

However, I saw the Starling, which is apparently the engine of the "Angry Birds" game but is Flash based. While the Flash is being abandoned by different platform increasingly, What would happen to Starling? Does it worth to invest on, or is it as good as libgdx?

Starling is built upon Adobe Air, and not Flash IIRC (that's why there is mobile builds available)

@DummyBeginner as a unity3d user I really cant answer your question.

But in any case, the most famous Engine I'm aware for multi-platform is Unity

@Tyyppi_77 That was the reason scared me to ask the question on the site and get tons of down votes :D

@UriPopov Agree. The second isn't as good as Extra Credits, but there are fewer of them and he touches subjects differently, which is helpful.

I mean, a lot of frameworks promise multiplatform support, like using Haxe or libGDX

But it's not as easy as using Unity

Unity changing the build type is a 3 click operation.

@DH. Thanks. That means it would have a certain roadmap and wouldn't be dead?

Unless you use natively supported stuff, in which case it gets a bit more complex, but that can be managed too.

If you look at the BroForce trailer, they don't show gameplay at all. It's all just about the feel of the game.

I'm not saying you have to do the same thing, but you should show the feel of your game, and it should be different than other games like it.

@DummyBeginner Starling never were really alive IMHO... The engine is kind good, but it's hard to be based on Adobe Air, it limits some stuff

Wonderputt were built on top of Adobe Air if you want an example of a successful game, but I can't think of another one lol

@DH. And I'll do my best to avoid limitation at the start of building career foundation

It's far from dead.

I heard angry birds too

Sorry, I'm really not trying to be discouraging. You've done a ton, and it looks great.

Just think about that when you go forward.

@PearsonArtPhoto subbed to the second channel

You're doing better than I am.

If it takes you a few weeks to figure out the theme, and a month or two to implement it, the game will come out much better as a result.

That's only because you've exposed yourself to the general public.

No, by theme I mean player experience.

Regarding the pricing, I'd prefer Unreal upon Unity as the start of an indie game development. Don't know whether I'm right or not

Unity is free, no big deal for that

That kind of stuff is a part of the player experience, but that's only a part of it.

Unity is freeish.

@Tyyppi_77 I actually think you need to "rebrand" the game. Come up with a new style. Keep it pixel-art but experiment and try to come up with something different.

@DH. unreal is free too

@DummyBeginner what language are you more comfy with c# or c++ ?

Unity and Unreal are both free until you make a certain amount of money.

Unreal gives you full access to the engine from the beginning. Unity you have to pay for it.

Unity does a subscription model, while Unreal does a royalty model.

So if you make a ton of money from the game, Unity is the cheaper solution. Arguably Unreal is cheaper if you don't make any money.

For basic access without support you have a monthly subscription of 35$

Yes bit Unreal is hard and spooky. Unity is nice and soft and warm.

@UriPopov Java on top of all :D So which one is closer to java

@DummyBeginner c#

@Tyyppi_77 I just watched that vid about experience, you should too if you haven't, it's super on topic of what you're struggling with right now

Honestly though, cost isn't an issue for either platform.

C# is way more in the looks of Java, C++ is far more complex

well, you know, marketing-wise

btw guys what happend to Shaun ? Did you chase him off with pitchforks or something ?

@Hakase How dare you imply that tyyppi isn't doing 100% of everything exactly perfectly!!!

@PearsonArtPhoto So it's rational to use Unreal fo the first game I think

He will not approve of this.

coz I'm keeping it real lol

lol

yeah...

It is, if you can manage C++.

But don't, he doesn't deal with it well

I've learned

i think DummyBeginner is shaun

cause it has no garbage collection HA get it. C# is managed c++ is not so you have to Manage it yourself

that can be fixed with some experience

@PearsonArtPhoto Hmmm, What about unity? Is it C# based?

@Jon That's the first thing I thought when I joined this morning

Yes.

that is the first thing I thought the first thing he wrote

and now I'm convinced

And his lack of response is kinda confirming it

@Jon shaun the sheep? :D

Yeah, all this "Java" stuff

Doesn't take that long to think of a response, unless you have to formulate something "clever"

Just saying "that's not me" takes about 2 seconds

I'm lacking ...

i picked up trackmania on the steam sale -- if I would have known about their damn DRM

I'm gonna return it I think

interesting theory but I dont think this type of troll is shaun's play.

What do you all taking about

Shaun renamed his account and changed his image to not be noticed as Shaun

@DummyBeginner definitely go for Unity unless you have very specific gameplay features in mind which would hit Unity's limitations

@Tyyppi_77 Thanks

@DH. Why? ehat was wrong with his account

This has to be one of the best things ever youtube.com/watch?v=b2XuYND9heI

Trigger warning!!!!!!

@Hakase you're saying Unreal stands higher than unity in regard the limitations?

@DH. everybody knew that ;) not so sneaky that boy

Yeah, I just said that to remember of what he's capable of

@DummyBeginner Nah man Everything you can in Unreal you can do in Unity. EVERYTHING

@DummyBeginner the language is not the best thing to go into after having experience with Java

c# is the closest equivalent to java

Are these game makers like Unity and Unreal more Visual game editors? a WYSIWYG platfrom?

@DH. like if he's some evil genius capable of god-only-knows what kind of deadly deeds

c++ requires more programming thinking and you want to spend less time coding and more time making the game

Unless you go really pro at stuff with complex shaders, no need to go with Unreal

I think you can use VS with Unity to debug n stuff

can somebody confirm?

yes, you can

@Hakase IS this a general thumb rule in game development?

@Hakase that sounds like total BS

@DH. ok

Oh wait, that's because it IS total BS.

ok why

because C++ is a high-level language, and it gives you lots of nice things, unlike, say, assembly language.

C++ is not that primitive @Hakase

If you were to program "pure" C then it would be a bit more hard to do stuff, but not that hard

I meant the garbage collection aspect

DummyBeginner comes from Java

that's not much of a hassle when you get used to it

plus there are smart pointers and other nice things

What saves you from doing too much programming and lets you get on with making a game is using an engine. An engine makes a ton more difference in how much time you spend programming "just stuff" and how much time you spend working on your game than which language you pick.

C++ is a medium-high level language.

I'm sinking :D shat are IS & BS

You should add in saving a cat from a tree or something.

@Almo So which one does aim better this goal?

@Tyyppi_77 who's the player? are they a law enforcement agent? or a non-affiliated vigilante guy with a gun?

Now that we are talking about those big engines, any news from Cry Engine after they went free? I mean, I heard nothing from it it's good or not

sounds important for the feeling of the game

@Tyyppi_77 Do they just run off screen and despawn atm?

you could probably reinforce this bit of info by adding some civilians who occasionally run outside the locations you've freed and shout "Thank you, Gun Hero!"

So, for the player experience, you want the character to feel like a hero.

what about robot rebellion or aliens have enslaved humanity?

stale cliche

I don't think you need to go sci-fi stuff

@PearsonArtPhoto How can I persuade someone to unblock me

@PearsonArtPhoto With no contact

ok but is it worse or better than just having people with a different idea of who's the boss be the bad guys?

@Almo killing it bruh

@AlanTuning Not private pinging people in the chatroom is a good start, for no reason.

Well you're the mod here..

You're the authority

@AlanTuning Actually he's not

What about this : The year is 2022. Feminists have won. There is one true man left. GUN HERO. He must save the remnants of huMANity with his awesome gun manliness from the evil hordes of the far left. Now this will generate some twitter talk :D

I'm just a mod who happens to be here, I'm not a moderator of this room.

He's a mod on graphic design

@MickLH Hey block me, you

Actually, Space.SE

And Ham.SE

@UriPopov manliness is already a very big part of Broforce's theme

I was once upon a time on Graphic Design, but that was a long time ago.

(jokes aside)

So, how can you be a gun carrying hero, but not focused on the manliness aspect.

@Tyyppi_77 make the machine a blue box and I will buy the game

ok then how about some time warpy stuff happened and random people from GunHero's village/city/town have been transported to hostile environments from where he must retrieve them safely?

If you are going to call your character Herocles, you should research Hercules and imitate some of the things he had to do.

opens up possibility for all kinds of environments and naturally explained map objectives

defeating bigger things than you is super manly

What do you think about Corona SDK? Generally speaking, do you use/suggest WYSIWYG game editors like Unity/Unreal or code library engines and SDK for game development?

right now it's just jungle environment, right?

Unity all the way baby

perseus.tufts.edu/Herakles/labors.html

10 more messages and I would have had 666 unread chat messages

@UriPopov yea baby

Nice bald cap dude

that's what you're showing in the screenshots and the vid

make the still shots different

change up the artwork people see first thing

I'm saying what I'm perceiving

Seriously though, if you did a game in the style of BroForce, but mixed in the story of Hercules carrying guns, that could work really well.

I've been lurking in this chat room a lot and I've seen your jungle gifs, so maybe my perception is skewed by that

The right image that shows the quickest is a gungle theme.

@DummyBeginner I don't understand the question.

Every outdoor scene in the trailer seems to be that too.

Or a snowy forest.

this is your game's "icon" image and it features jungle background, so that's why

@Almo I mean Unreal or Unity which one help to less code

change it up for something different and it will fix the problem

@DummyBeginner you need to understand there is no less code. Its you that bends.

@DummyBeginner you'll most probably spend equal amount of time learning either

It will help.

sorry if I'm being too straightforward, but that's the only way to get closer to the truth as fast as possible

@UriPopov sure but the environment affects

@Tyyppi_77 you know what add a realyl disjointed soundtrack like Tarantino does.

@Hakase what do you use personally?

that animation is very important, a lot of people don't even see past that in the game list view

@DummyBeginner I use VS exclusively and I've only had experience making games using XNA, which is not an engine, but a framework, so neither

but I see there are lots of tutorials for Unity out there and there's a pretty big asset store with cool tools, models, textures, etc

idk if there's a comparable amount of those goodies for Unreal

can somebody enlighten me?

unrealengine.com/marketplace they have a marketplace with something

docs.unrealengine.com/latest/INT/Videos tutorials

@Hakase But you didn't mention frameworks (like Corona SDk or XNA) in the first suggestions. Why you haven't work with Unity/Unreal engines instead of frameworks?

I've only tried to do things that don't require any engine goodies

Unreal does have the marketplace but it's nowhere near as fleshed out as Unity's Asset Store. It will get there eventually but for art and certain utilities Unity has saved me tons of time.

I'm working on a 2d game and there's no meshes or complex lighting or any of that 3d stuff

such a pointless conversation

for you maybe

@DummyBeginner what sort of game do you wanna make?

this discussion over what to use

It seems to be a re-occuring point people want to continually bring up

@Jon Sort of. Regardless pick an engine to run with (I'd pick Unity since it has tons of support and is easy to use) and learn it. If you don't like it there are hundreds of other engines/frameworks/etc to get stuff done with.

No shit, "if you don't like it"

If you can't make research on your own on what tech to use, then give up now

An opinion shouldn't be your go to on what to use

@DummyBeginner the main question to answer here is which features you're going to need, and only go from there

Sean would tell this guy to use Java because it is the greatest

Might be great for his situation, but it sucks for everyone else.

@jon sometimes people ask only what they know to ask, and not what they should, and it's to be expected

we're all learning here

@Hakase So maybe it's the same case here Since for the first step in developing a 2D android/iOs game. 3D games would be in future maybe. My whole point was to not waste my time learning and working SDK frameworks while I should go another path from the scratch

@DummyBeginner things will most likely change very much when you decide to pick up another game engine in the future

@Jon I saw different java game demos which made me sick

@Jon That's not really fair. With all the choices out there for a beginner than it can be overwhelming. When I first learned how to code and got into gamedev I wasn't sure either. However after I learned how easy it is to swap if the engine I'm using isn't working for me then the choice became simple, PICK ANYTHING. Code the fucking thing in Java if you want. Programming skills are transferable and it's just a matter of learning a new syntax.

Unity is very different now from 2 or 3 years ago (from what I've read)

The rule of thumb is -- do you want to make a game? Use an engine. Do you want to make an engine? use a framework. IF you use an engine, pick an engine that you think you will enjoy working with -- AND that provides you with the functionality you require.

That is literally all you need to know.

@DummyBeginner if you want ease of porting to different platforms, use an engine. Probably Unity because it has (apparently) more support docs and useful assets than Unreal.