@fredsbendtheGrinch You mustn't have stalked me on to other sites to find questions like this: linguistics.stackexchange.com/q/8524/2555 ;)

@Onlyheisgood. I don't really like etymology because it's just so arbitrary, but a quick search on Google led to this page which suggests that they're all derived from the Latin word tenere, meaning 'to hold'. But as a bound morpheme it doesn't really have a meaning in English, and some of those words don't really have that meaning any more.

@Onlyheisgood. But certain is just a coincidence, it is derived from the Latin word certus.

@Onlyheisgood. Why does fruit need to be replaced? It is already a very basic simple word. In fact it's one of the 1000 most common English words.

@curiousdannii eeerrrrrrr, I don't know what you're talking about.

That question surely proves one of two things to me:

1. You know a great deal more about linguists than me.

2. You are incomprehensibly crazy.

@curiousdannii Now I must challenge you to produce the other 999.

> 1. You know a great deal more about linguists than me.

So much so that I don't even know the different between linguists and linguistics.

The same reason that 'fire' or 'gnashing of teeth' needs to be replaced with 'anger'. There is interpretation, and when out of focus creates many forms of Christianity. So instead, we make a clear version, and bring all back to the Catholic Church.

At a time it was not allowed to translate out of the text for fear of what did end up happening.

@fredsbendtheGrinch shabanali.com/upload/1000words.pdf Though there are different lists and fruit might not be on all of them

So, instead we offer the pure translation without metaphor. It must be true, it must be without error, and it must provably end death.

@fredsbendtheGrinch A linguist is to linguistics what a theologian is to theology. The second is a field of study, the first a practitioner of it

@Onlyheisgood. But you're just perverting the text. Nothing you're changing would be recognised as a Hebrew or Greek methaphor or idiom

Then it is to find the ones that would be recognized, and move from there.

@fredsbendtheGrinch oh! :)

@Onlyheisgood. If you want to see a translation that does simplify away a lot of the idioms and metaphors, look at the CEV

@fredsbendtheGrinch I hope for you confidence Fredsbend. this error does not have to bring you down. ^^

Nope, I'm okay.

@fredsbendtheGrinch Sweetness

@curiousdannii Thank you for the CEV reference.

"You can tell what a tree is like by the fruit it produces. You cannot pick figs or grapes from thornbushes." (Luke 6:44 CEV)

This is still very heavy with metaphor.

Not downing the reference.

Thank you for that.

I need something more then that though.

Here is what I would like from the army of God. I would like 3000 Line by Line scans on the Greek structure: Noun, Adjective, Verb. Defining Sentence structure for each Verse. Then after passing 7 tests on accuracy.

@Onlyheisgood. Why?

Then for each Hebrew word 200 passes determining the specific word structure: Example 'I will say' or 'he will say'.

@Onlyheisgood. The Bible has metaphor because all language uses metaphors and idioms. God invented language. Idioms and metaphors are good. They must reflect how God thinks.

This then goes through three separate counsels.

The two formations then gather together in a computer database. Resulting in the most accurate translation for English that can occur.

The Metaphor legend then is applied to the perfected translation.

@Onlyheisgood. Computers are terrible at translating living languages with massive annotated corpuses - just look at Google translate

With less data they'll be even worse.

Then each line again goes through the series of services to perfect readability.

@curiousdannii The computers are not doing the translating. What they are doing is placing the translated words into the defined structure. Example : Adjective Noun Verb

The computer would take the words ball red jumps, and 'fruit' =P red ball jumps.

The Metaphors are always available all the other versions of the bible.

This is to Make God True when he said "These things I have spoken to you in figurative language; but the time is coming when I will no longer speak to you in figurative language, but I will tell you plainly about the Father." (John 16:25 NKJV)

And what God has given to Jesus, is to 'fruit' =P this plain version.

It must be perfect, it must have no error, and it must end death.

- May the peace rest upon you all. Good night.

@Onlyheisgood. Like this? bibleworks.com/bw9help/bwh25_Diagrammer.htm You might like to look into Bibleworks - it has the full NT in this kind of diagramming

I love God for he knows what I need before I ask. ^^

For the Hebrew Word structure the prefixes and suffixes already present what is necessary.

(en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prefixes_in_Hebrew)

(en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suffixes_in_Hebrew)

However two outcomes need analysed. With and without the Hebrew Diacritics.

The Hebrew Diacritics where added: (apologeticspress.org/…)

Which means that personal interpretation (without the decoding of the Metaphors) could have been influenced.

-

Ok back to 'fruit' "Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me." (John 15:4 NKJV)

Maybe it will come from the study of 'bearing the fruit'.

Bear: verb (used with object), bore or (Archaic) bare; borne or born; bearing. : to hold up; support: to hold or remain firm under (a load): to bring forth (young); give birth to: to produce by natural growth: to hold up under; be capable of:

(Source: dictionary.reference.com/browse/bear)

The breath has said the fruit is: 'What you put out with your personality.'

The word to replace 'fruit' is 'result'. Even the thesaurus agrees (thesaurus.com/browse/result)

When the word bear is the adjective it adds the needed Tain.

@Onlyheisgood. Thesauruses give words that have close meanings is some contexts, not words that can be replaced in every instance.

I don't have to accept the seeds from the thorn bush. Even if the thorn bush became a garden producing good fruit.

And if you look up fruit (thesaurus.com/browse/fruit) you'll see that the first meaning is "edible part of vegetative growth developed after flowering"

"edible part of the result developed after flowering"

@curiousdannii Truth withstands the fire. You may provide a better word. The truth adjusts to the truth.

@Onlyheisgood. As I asked before "Why does fruit need to be replaced? It is already a very basic simple word."

@curiousdannii Does an orange come out of your mouth when you breath? If I go to the store can I buy a fruit called Love or Peace or Joy? No.

So what is a metaphor is a metaphor, and what is clear is clear.