Game Development

6:00 PM

Ok, go ahead. But most of the code I've worked with has objects drawing themselves. Otherwise you have to have another class somewhere know too much about the class being drawn. Encapsulation is broken.

John McDonald

It's common in component-based systems for the entities to have no idea how to draw themselves, or that they are even drawn

Almo

I'm guessing we're into semantics territory.

Jimmy

the way I do it is I have "renderers" that know how to draw vertex buffers. and then each drawable component just needs to know how to pretend to be a vertex buffer.

Almo

how does the draw routine know what the attributes of the object being drawn are?

John McDonald

@Almo Umm... not really.

Almo

6:02 PM

say your object has m_radius. And you change that to m_radius1 and m_radius2.

suddenly your renderer needs to know about what changed inside the class

that it now has two radii

not necessarily the names themselves since accessors can fix that

Grieverheart

yeah, the one way I though of doing this was to have a member function which returns a struct with the needed information to draw. The window would than need to return a collection of structs (representing other elements such as buttons) or an iterator to the structs

Almo

Just trying to understand here

Shotgun Ninja

Send the objects the ability to draw, and have them use their own internal knowledge to know ~~how~~ what to draw, and have the renderer tell them when to draw. Simple?

Almo

"returns a struct with the needed information to draw" That to me looks like the item knowing how to draw itself, which is why I say semantics. "draw" as in what does it look like vs "draw" how to plot pixels, but not which pixels.

Winforms pass a Graphics object which does the pixel plotting, but the object says "draw a circle with this radius" to the graphics object

John McDonald

yeah, a component-based system is a different way of thinking, so there's really only data containers (Components), and Systems that work with the data. There's no Entity class. If you want to draw 2 radii, one of your systems will need to draw that.

Grieverheart

6:06 PM

Almo, not really...you wouldn't have to implement the draw function on the class itself but, as I said, it can then be separated

John McDonald

In my game, I draw things like power radius during construction in the Construction system

Almo

Definitely semantics; we don't really disagree, it appears.

:)

Grieverheart

probably

John McDonald

could be...

Grieverheart

I still prefer the component-based way of thinking, although as in my case, it may not always be easy to do

Jimmy

6:08 PM

@Grieverheart are you perhaps asking how to get an MVC-like separation between the logic of the class and the "draw-logic" of the class?

Grieverheart

I guess you could compare the two

In principle I want to have different renderers and choose one to my liking

Jimmy

I think most GUI system's I've seen that abstract out the renderering would have a renderer that knows how to say, draw a rectangle. And then your textbox would have a draw method that specifies a sequence of rectangles to draw.

The textbox doesn't care how your renderer is actually implementing the rectangles.

Grieverheart

I think I've seen that in at least one gui library, but can't remember which one it was

John McDonald

Not sure how many controls you plan to make, or how far along you are, but making a GUI library is a pain

Grieverheart

Yeah, I figured that out >_<

But I like learning new things, unfortunately :P

Jimmy

6:13 PM

eventually I always get around to thinking "man, if I had another couple years I could probably re-implement CSS 1 in my spare time..." and it gets depressing

Grieverheart

hehe, yeah, time is usually not enough, ever >_<

John McDonald

I'm remembering all the pain from making a list and a textbox

Fun times

Grieverheart

ouch

John McDonald

yeah. Don't make "proper" list boxes if you can help it

And if you can't help it, save that image

SpicyWeenie

Does anyone know how to get the model rotation (vector3df) of a model in Irrlicht?

Grieverheart

6:24 PM

Anyways, thanks. I'll try to check a few GUI libraries and see if I can get a few ideas.

Alex M.

@SpicyWeenie nope, but I can tell you I downloaded irrlicht again last night

going to give it a chance for a 2D thingy :D

SpicyWeenie

cool cool

Alex M.

pcgamer.com/2013/06/03/…

Shotgun Ninja

6:39 PM

@AlexM. DO WANT

Alex M.

well download it then

ToddersLegrande

I'm not smart enough in physics, etc. to understand what this does and I don't have speakers / headphones to listen to the video xD

Jon

It looks to me like they put the code out there, and are saying "If you make something cool with this, let us know"

The prototype game that was created before this: youtube.com/…

Alex M.

well if I were MIT I'd do the same thing

also look at Intel's contest for Perceptual Computing

why gather your employees to brainstorm when you can leverage a whole world of capable minds?

Jon

I like the idea of doing both :)

Alex M.

6:53 PM

you can do both then

further, Intel also allows companies to participate in the contest too

Jimmy

so I just looked at the wiki page for perceptual computing

now I'm even more confused than before I read it

Alex M.

my imagination was staying in the "use eyes to scroll" area so I went back to my own stuff

I'll let people with better ideas participate

Jon

7:21 PM

(╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻

Almo

my sentiments exactly. Trying to get a carousel control working in cocos2d

ToddersLegrande

┬─┬ノ( º _ ºノ)

Fixed it

Almo

(╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻

Alex M.

(/¯◡ ‿ ◡)/¯ ~ ┻━┻

Wingardium Leviosa

or sth

Shotgun Ninja

@AlexM. ಠ_ಠ

Alex M.

7:25 PM

(╯°□°)╯︵ O

FOOD FIGHT

Shotgun Ninja

Would you guys stop throwing shit please

Alex M.

(it's a plum)

Jimmy

you guys must be Go players

Jon

There is also this one ლ(ಠ益ಠლ) whyyyyy

Almo

I am in fact a go player, but I don't see what that has to do with throwing shit around the room

Jimmy

7:26 PM

Almo

oh :)

Alex M.

(╯°□°)╯︵ Shotgun Ninja

Jimmy

The well-known "nuclear tesuji" endgame.

You throw the board against the wall. Followup moves are either picking up the board and beating your opponent with it, or just a straight up uppercut to the chin.

Alex M.

the guy with the table looks like he's assraping the poor dude on the ground

Jimmy

oops

Shotgun Ninja

7:28 PM

｡◕‿◕｡

Alex M.

I can even imagine their dialogue

Jimmy

how do you say "fucking cheesing noob" in ancient Japanese?

Alex M.

Mr rapist no baka please don't put your hands there... moe

and Mr rapist goes all

ASSRAPE NO JUUTSU

hooya

Jimmy

7:48 PM

@Almo am I reading this wrong or is black [2] a suicide? playing one over seems to save the corner to me.

or nevermind, thatsthejoke.jpg -.-

Almo

playing 2 over a spot doesn't save it either

wait

lemme think

yeah it does

life/death and the endgame are my weaknesses in go

I can hang with people 5 ranks above me until late mid-game.

then they wipe me out

Jimmy

how do you handle late early game?

Almo

my opening is strong because I have a natural intuition for it

Jimmy

I don't know how to build frameworks above the fourth line

Almo

I make pretty reasonable decisions on where to play to get formations to hook up to each other

but when it comes down to it, I can't keep my groups alive and the framework falls apart

really frustrating

I don't have the patience to count sente/gote situations in all the little end-game nitpicky bits

so people who aren't quite as good as me think I'm really good since I make these awesome huge territories

but people who are better than me make me look silly once they realize I don't know how to keep what I've staked out. :)

still prefer it to chess :)

I don't know how advanced you are, but I recommend reading The Second Book of Go if you're that level, or Attack And Defense if you're higher level.

Also Kato's Attack and Kill for an interesting perspective on killing stones

Jimmy

7:55 PM

"very bad"

Almo

if you're very bad (know the rules and not a whole lot else) definitely get the Second Book of Go.

Jimmy

I've probably hovered anywhere between 25 and 15k

Almo

it covers all the stages of the game for beginners in a way you don't see in super-beginner books

Jimmy

I used to play at a club and that was probably my best

Almo

well you might be beyond that then

I don't know: take a look in the book, and if it looks too basic, try Attack and Defense.

William 'MindWorX' Mariager

8:02 PM

What's this geeky talk?

John McDonald

Go!

petervaz

hello world

Shotgun Ninja

Oh jesus christ, I need to learn how to play Go.

End of discussion.

Almo

Go: 9 rules, thousands of years of strategy development, with no solution yet. Though it's starting to look like the computers will get it "soon". :(

John McDonald

I bought Go a few years back, mostly just to collect games from countries I visit

Almo

8:04 PM

heh

John McDonald

I've played like twice

Almo

I find it a lot more fun than chess. Go is like connecting 9 chess battles to each other (or more) due to the size of the board.

the outcome of a battle in one place can affect battles elsewhere on the board

knowing which battle to play in and how it will affect the others is really tricky (and fun).

Jimmy

or just watch/read Hikaru no Go

Gajoo

9:09 PM

I guess I need an idea:

Alex M.

go on

Gajoo

lost my train of thoughts.... :(

Alex M.

choo choo!

Gajoo

I'm going to enhance my proxy app, so here are my priorities:
very high performance,
being highly scalable, meaning it should be able to handle more than 10k concurrent connections,
having the ability to patch new features into it,
I won't mind doing low level dirty tricks,
I won't mind taking server or client down for upgrades.

@Jimmy @ToddersLegrande @JohnMcDonald @William'MindWorX'Mariager @JoshPetrie

so summing up all the ideas I've had so far, I'm going to implement a component-based system

there is going to be a Job Dispatcher, maintaining a list of jobs which should be done.

an information center, which will provide jobs with the information about what they should do.

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