The Heap™ – Consultancy ©®

Vérace

00:54

A chairde - Morning all! Listening to RTÉ (Irish State broadcaster) radio this evening, I had to laugh - and thank Paul White for pointing out something to which I admit I was oblivious up till now! The person being interviewed (can't remember name) was saying that in Russia, the media is being censored! Shock! Horror! How can that happen? <look of of outrage>!

But, it was pointed out to me the day before yesterday that I can no longer get RT or sputniknews. It is possible to circumvent the EU ban on Russian media by jumping through hoops, but it takes a bit of expertise to do this - beyond, I would guess, ~ 95% of the population. So, are we (in the EU/West) being led by the nose? I don't really think so, but...

In Dublin, there's a proposal to rename the road upon which sits the Russian embassy Ukrainian Freedom road. Real "To the barricades, brothers!" stuff! :-) Some residents appear to be complaining that it might reduce the value of their properties (it's a nice area - the comrades didn't deprive themselves)! Went there once to sign the book of condolences for Beslan!

mustaccio

02:23

@Vérace your indignation is understandable, if mildly amusing. Please consider however the level of what you call censorship: in Russia, questioning the use of military force abroad or calling the "security operation" for what it is, the war, by press or private citizens alike, is a criminal offence punishable by up to five years in prison; in the rest of the world, it's just "we don't want to broadcast your propaganda, do it yourself if you care".

Timothy Fisher

05:08

Hello. Does anybody know if restoring from a mysql dump file triggers replication? Since the dump file is just a bunch of SQL statements, I'd assume it does, but want to be sure. I have two servers A and B that have a master/slave replication set up. I need to bring a new database over from another server, say server C. If I create a dump file of it, and then execute the dump file on server A, will that properly replicate to B?

Paul White

@mustaccio That's all true, as far as it goes, but there is a difference between possible punishment and what is usually (or ever) applied. The controversial protest bill going through the UK has had some examples in that area (up to 10 years jail). It's particularly the case in Russia though. Arrest-and-release or fines are much more common in practice. Separately, western-style democracies usually aspire to higher standards of freedom in general.

@TimothyFisher Very few MySQL people hang out in this room regularly. Your best bet is to ask a proper question on Database Administrators.

Vérace

05:58

@mustaccio I believe that it's 15 years. And yes, of course, there's a huge difference between what's happening in the EU and Russia. I was able to get around the ban relatively easily (using Rumble and the Hola VPN if you're interested) - and I'm not expecting the Irish Special Branch to come bursting through my doors anytime soon!

However, why should I not be able to look at RT and read sputniknews.com if I want to? Some of the articles are so detached from reality that it's actually quite entertaining!

Paul White

@Vérace Some good news for free speech though: reuters.com/world/europe/…

> Emails also showed that Meta would allow praise of the right-wing Azov battalion, which is normally prohibited, in a change first reported by The Intercept.

The Meta spokesperson previously said the company was "for the time being, making a narrow exception for praise of the Azov Regiment strictly in the context of defending Ukraine, or in their role as part of the Ukraine National Guard."

Also bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-60667770

On the jail terms:

> The new law, adopted in Russia on Friday evening, made the deliberate spread of “false information” about the Russian military punishable by up to 15 years in jail and a heavy fine.

Similarly, people found guilty of “discrediting” the use of the Russian Armed Forces for “the protection of the interests of the Russian Federation and its citizens” can be jailed for up to five years and fined.

Vérace

06:17

You forgot the obligatory (on sputniknews) "neo-Nazi" epithet which always precedes the words "Azov batallion"! Very nice of Facebook to allow people to say "Death to the Russian invaders"! Though, if I've understood correctly, one can't say "Death to the Russian people" - is "Death to the Russians" (ambiguous) acceptable?

Paul White

@Vérace Well it's a quote so

I have no idea what is or isn't acceptable to Meta beyond what is written there

Vérace

Fair enough - I was just making the point that without the freedom-of-speech loving Russian media, one might be led to believe that the Azov battalion was a scouting group! :-)

Paul White

I really don't know how people expect to know for sure what is truly going on in an active war zone

First casualty of war being truth and all that

As far as I can tell, there has been quite ridiculous propaganda from all parties at different times

Vérace

06:36

I think that the Russians would have seized on any opportunity to portray the Ukrainians in a bad light. So far, I've seen nothing credible showing any poor behaviour on the part of Ukrainian armed forces. I have seen lots of evidence of horrific behaviour on the part of the Russians...

Two examples here a woman, two children and a family friend killed by mortar fire and a young couple, the man carrying their dead child. Mortars are relatively short-range weapons - they have spotters - I find it hard to believe that those doing the mortaring didn't know they were targeting civilians!

nytimes.com/2022/03/06/world/europe/…

dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10583655/…

John K. N.

@Vérace I like this one: ozh.github.io/ascii-tables

generates tables out of anything and produces results in any desired format.

Morning

Paul White

@JohnK.N. That's the one I use too. I keep a tab open for it.

@Vérace Well of course you haven't seen it, that's rather the point isn't it. I did point you to some documentaries, which you clearly haven't had time to watch. Perhaps check out en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine_on_Fire recently banned on YouTube and shadow-banned on Amazon.

@Vérace This is why military action in any area with civilians is always a bad idea, regardless of who is involved. I believe it was the US that coined the expression "collateral damage".

John K. N.

@PaulWhite same

Paul White

It's very much the best one of it's type and works well with the limited table markdown on SE

Are there, to your knowledge, any servers that would be "clever" enough to realise that the conditiions are the same? — Vérace 12 hours ago

@Vérace Yes SQL Server does this. I would expect most databases with a non-basic optimiser to include such.

Vérace

06:58

@JohnK.N. Thanks for that John - that site is really cool! What's the markup style for dba.se?

Paul White

I use the GitHub markdown setting

Vérace

Re. optimiser - yes, that surprised me also! I would put PostgreSQL into the realm of a sophisticated RDBMS. I might ask a question on the lists?

Markdown - absolutely deadly! Lovely tables and easy to produce! Expect to see them crop up regularly in my answers from now on! :-)

Paul White

@Vérace The planner isn't its best feature. Demo btw dbfiddle.uk/…

Vérace

Ironically, the last major battle that I can think of that didn't involve (many) civilians was the world's biggest tank battle at Kharkov (now Kharkiv). I notice that RTÉ presenters appear to making efforts to use Ukrainian pronunciation (Keev vs. Kee-ev)!

Paul White

I heard a supermarket in the UK was renaming its chicken kiev to chicken kyiv

Vérace

07:09

Maybe it's been fixed?

John K. N.

@PaulWhite yus

Paul White

Bit like naming roads if you ask me but hey if people want to why not

Vérace

Scratch the "fixed"!

John K. N.

@Vérace I like Output Style: Github Markdown with the Comment Style set to 4 spaces (Reddit).

But I'm no big fan of the table formatting in DBA.SE. I find it takes up too much space.

Paul White

Yeah it's pretty basic, always filling the full width

Much better than nothing ofc

Except people go mad with markdown tables instead of providing DDL perhaps

Vérace

07:19

I won't go mad on the tables - only when appropriate, and certainly not for DDL! Interesting concept though - all answers entirely as tables! A bit like brainf***! :-0

Separate cell for each word, of course!

I remember in the early 90's, I was on a Ryanair flight from Paris to Dublin and I was sitting next to an Irish guy who's new wife (or was it fiancée?) was from Kiev. I pronounced it Kee-Ev - he corrected me and explained that it was Keev!

Interesting anecdote - we lived fairly close to each other and there was a supermarket that we both frequented. It was decent enough, but Harrod's it was not. He told me that his wife broke down the first time she walked into it - she couldn't believe what she perceived as the opulence of what is a reasonably ordinary (for Ireland anyway) supermarket.

Paul White

Kyiv

Kyiv ( KEE-yiv, KEEV) or Kiev ( KEE-ev; Ukrainian: Київ, romanized: Kyiv, pronounced [ˈkɪjiu̯] (listen)) is the capital and most populous city of Ukraine. It is in north-central Ukraine along the Dnieper River. As of 1 January 2021, its population was 2,962,180, making Kyiv the seventh-most populous city in Europe.Kyiv is an important industrial, scientific, educational, and cultural center in Eastern Europe. It is home to many high-tech industries, higher education institutions, and historical landmarks. The city has an extensive system of public transport and infrastructure, including the Kyiv...

The history is long and complex. One might prefer Київ. Also the pronunciation is worth listening to there.

ypercubeᵀᴹ

07:52

@PaulWhite this recent trend to rename Cities/Countries/People according to their native pronunciation is getting on my nerves really

Paul White

@ypercubeᵀᴹ Same but perhaps I'm just not a huge fan of pointless virtue signalling in general

KyivNotKiev

KyivNotKiev is an online campaign started by the Ukrainian Ministry of Foreign Affairs (MFA) together with the 15 member centre for strategic communications "StratCom Ukraine" on 2 October 2018. Its goal is to persuade English-language media and organisations to exclusively use Kyiv (derived from the Ukrainian language name Київ) instead of Kiev (derived from the Russian language name Киев) as the name of the Ukrainian capital. It is a part of the wider campaign "CorrectUA". It is also part of a global trend of city name changes. The organisation intends to internationally assert a Ukrainian identity...

Complete with hashtag for your convenience

ypercubeᵀᴹ

wow ... speechless

Paul White

speak the way I tell you and think the way I tell you

anyway it is consistent with their policy to outlaw the russian language in general

I really don't care how people choose to pronounce place names etc.

It is nice when they make an effort to fit in with local custom when local though

That said, there are at least three common pronunciations of my home town

McNets

Morning

Paul White

Morning

to those in bar-thel-own-a

(which I probably have wrong)

ypercubeᵀᴹ

08:07

barthelona, bartselona, not even the Spanish-speaking can agree ;)

Paul White

it was all about a lisp at one stage wasn't it? or is that a myth?

Vérace

@ypercubeᵀᴹ Couldn't agree more. In English (even though I'm a fluent French speaker) when pronouncing the French capital, I say Par-isss and not Par-eee, and I say Rome, not Roma and Buda-pest not Buda-pesht! I'm in College with some Indians and many of them use the old pronunciations!

Myth!

Paul White

A charming myth though

ypercubeᵀᴹ

mythos, not myth. you have to say it like the Greeks ;)

Paul White

I mean it sounds so plausible

@ypercubeᵀᴹ 😀😂😀

I do say your name eep-air-kube in my head

ypercubeᵀᴹ

08:11

haha, nice

I have seen 2 or 3 spanish speaking guys write it as yipercube.

I guess it's how they pronounce it in their heads

Mythos is also a beer brand. @Vérace, that's what we'll drink when you visit ~~Greece~~ Ellas.

McNets

Bar-ze-lon-a

2

Vérace

We'll have Guinness when I welcome you all "in Éireann"!

Vérace

09:06

Maybe my brain's fried at the minute, but what is the FOR doing here? I found this code here - can't seem to wrap my head around it! Docco/web references especially welcome!

Too much Guiness "in Éireann" maybe?

:-)

Muppet - it's part of the SUBSTRING() function!

Deffo too much Guinness!

John K. N.

@PaulWhite Yeah, it's a bit like New Zealand. Some people pronounce it Aotearoa.

Paul White

@JohnK.N. That's one of the Māori names yes. Commonly used to refer to the whole of NZ but that use is not without controversy

John K. N.

09:28

Indian Express: New Zealand Name Change Debate

Paul White

09:39

That seems about right yes

It's a little more tricky to pronounce Aotearoa than you might think. Certainly there are some terrible examples on YouTube.

If you're interested, this one is right: web.archive.org/web/20180128215526/https://…

The 't' sound in particular is quite difficult for native English speakers to get right

Vérace

You said something the other day about Putin not wanting to take cities? Apparently that big column that was stuck is now moving, splitting up and attempting to encircle Kyiv!

Paul White

@Vérace So?

yesterday, by Paul White

And that pre-supposes the objective is to capture cities.

You can refresh your memory of the conversation starting about there

John K. N.

ou-t-a-rua

Paul White

How To Say Aotearoa

►

That's one's almost as good

The first one is still the best to my ears anyway

Vérace

10:02

You appeared to express doubt as to whether the taking of cities was an objective. I said that if it wasn't an objective, why not just bomb them from the air at virtually zero risk instead of risking troops. Or were you doing your advocatus diaboli thing again?

Paul White

@Vérace Why not bomb them from the air? To avoid civilian casualties of course. A pattern of previous Russian tactics has been evacuating cities before taking them with overwhelming firepower. I have no idea if that is part of the plan here. It hasn't been stated as such to my knowledge. Encircling a city does not mean you intend to take it by force.

Vérace

"To avoid civilian casualties" - Good one! PML! They may evacuate the civilians() - I don't see the soldiers evacuating! () record appears poor on that score to say the least!

Paul White

Indiscriminately bombing a city packed with civilians would be a war crime I think.

Vérace

And when has that ever bothered the Russians?

Paul White

Well that was the pattern in Syria recently, as I understand it. Civilians evacuated, then the military goes in.

Hiding soldiers among civilians and military equipment in civilian buildings is also a war crime AFAIK.

I find your statements quite hard to follow at times

6 mins ago, by Vérace

"To avoid civilian casualties" - Good one! PML! They may evacuate the civilians() - I don't see the soldiers evacuating! () record appears poor on that score to say the least!

That barely makes sense. What are the empty parentheses for? Why the italics?

Paul White

10:29

> Although there are no treaties specific to aerial warfare, Protocol 1, Article 51 of the Geneva Conventions explicitly prohibits the bombardment of cities where the civilian population might be concentrated regardless of any method.

War crime

A war crime is a violation of the laws of war that gives rise to individual criminal responsibility for actions by the combatants, such as intentionally killing civilians or intentionally killing prisoners of war, torture, taking hostages, unnecessarily destroying civilian property, deception by perfidy, wartime sexual violence, pillaging, the conscription of children in the military, committing genocide or ethnic cleansing, the granting of no quarter despite surrender, and flouting the legal distinctions of proportionality and military necessity.The formal concept of war crimes emerged from the...

Nothing is ever simple it seems.

(I was wondering why the extensive city bombing campaigns of WW2 were not considered war crimes)

John K. N.

> The Geneva Conventions are four treaties, and three additional protocols, that establish international legal standards for humanitarian treatment in war. The singular term Geneva Convention usually denotes the agreements of 1949, negotiated in the aftermath of the Second World War (1939–1945), which updated the terms of the two 1929 treaties and added two new conventions.

Paul White

It's amazingly complicated

John K. N.

The Protocol 1 was defined in 1977

> The 1949 conventions have been modified with three amendment protocols:
>
> Protocol I (1977) relating to the Protection of Victims of International Armed Conflicts[34]
> Protocol II (1977) relating to the Protection of Victims of Non-International Armed Conflicts[35]
> Protocol III (2005) relating to the Adoption of an Additional Distinctive Emblem[36]

Paul White

The only winning move is not to play

ypercubeᵀᴹ

10:52

@JohnK.N. are there countries that have not signed these agreements/protocols?

John K. N.

List of parties to the Geneva Conventions

The Geneva Conventions, which were most recently revised in 1949, consist of seven individual treaties which are open to ratification or accession by any sovereign state. They are: The Geneva Conventions First Geneva Convention Second Geneva Convention Third Geneva Convention Fourth Geneva Convention Additional Protocols Protocol I Protocol II Protocol IIIThe four 1949 Conventions have been ratified by 196 states, including all UN member states, both UN observers the Holy See and the State of Palestine, as well as the Cook Islands. The Protocols have been ratified by 174, 169 and 79 states...

Yes

> Conventions I–IV and Protocols I and II ratified as the Soviet Union.
> Declaration under Article 90 of Protocol 1 withdrawn in 2019.

ypercubeᵀᴹ

@JohnK.N. I see protocols I and II were not ratified by the US

Paul White

That surprised me too. Nor Art. 90

John K. N.

Off for fried eggs and rösti.

ypercubeᵀᴹ

11:15

> Protocol I
> Ratification status
> As of February 2020, it had been ratified by 174 states, with the United States, Israel, Iran, Pakistan, India, and Turkey being notable exceptions.

Vérace

12:25

When you put an asterisk - indicating a footnote - in brackets, it seems to disappear when posted. Imagine one is present - the post becomes clearer.

Any sign of the British being prosecuted for Dresden then? There's a slight chance that some of the crews might still be alive - shouldn't they be hauled before the courts - as has been done with geriatric ex-SS personnel?

Paul White

12:41

@Vérace Where is the footnote? (*)

Asterisks are used to demit italics and bold don't forget

So () this () appears as italic

Though the source was So (*) this (*) appears as italic

Asterisks can be escaped with a backslash

So (*) this (*) appears as italic

Was typed as So (\*) this (\*) appears as italic

ypercubeᵀᴹ

13:13

@Vérace Dresden? why go that far back and not start with more recent invasions/bombings?

Let's say - out of my head, there are probably others - Baghdad and Yugoslavia?

mustaccio

19:44

now deleted: dba.stackexchange.com/questions/308637/…

is this spam? or just rude? or what?

ypercubeᵀᴹ

20:04

flag as anything ;)

illegible, if there was such flag

Transcript for

The Heap™ – Consultancy ©®