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03:00 - 17:0017:00 - 00:00

17:00
@Phil I'm extremely glad you joined up - no way I was going anywhere near that :-)
haha
@myusuf3 are you still here?
@JackDouglas yes I am; I was just looking at it potentially
we could go that route; can we move over exsisting machines to this?
@myusuf3 no point re-inventing the wheel if you don't have to
just an ip change correct?
17:04
I don't know AWS well
you can snapshot to S3 or something can't you?
yeah I guess.
then I guess you'd need to change IP
so back to securing the db
@myusuf3 what from :-)
who's on first?
17:06
once the db is in your private network with the appserver, nothing needs to see it does it?
so you need to secure your appserver
I am not in that stage at this point
I have a server on the internet
i want to secure the db so I can send and recieve to/from the app server
@myusuf3 is this in production already? I thought we were on the drawing board
are both already physically AWS?
@JackDouglas yes I am. i am prototyping and learning
if you don't want to use APC now, then tunnel the database port over ssh
why shouldn't i use ssl
17:08
leave everything else closed on the db server
@myusuf3 why would you want to?
so everything is secure during transmission
between db and appserver
@myusuf3 isn't it over ssh?
I mean why use ssl in preference to ssh
ssh tunneling is really quite a nice solution. Its what I do. Its so transparent and easy,
Hi again!
ssh is miles easier to be confident of security
17:09
@JackDouglas @rfusca how is this done?
Oracle listener question can anybody help me?
@Phil Hi Phil
@Phil I do as you said but there is one problem
@JackDouglas kk
how can I learn to do this
ssh -L 5555:localhost:5432 -l herp derp.com?
@Phil I cannot restart the listener
@swasheck revsys.com/writings/quicktips/ssh-tunnel.html and then app just connects to a local port and its tunnelled across
17:11
You don't know how, or it doesn't work?
@Phil and calling the function causes: ORA-28575: unable to open RPC connection to external procedure agent
ORA-06512: at "CALL_C_PROGRAM", line 1
ORA-06512: at line 5
@Phil It doesn't work
@myusuf3 what language does your appserver speak?
@Phil lsnrctl stop waits... after a minute
TNS-12535: TNS:operation timed out
TNS-12560: TNS:protocol adapter error
TNS-00505: Operation timed out
IBM/AIX RISC System/6000 Error: 78: Connection timed out
@rfusca ok ... so i think my confusion is if this is done on the client (app) or server (db)
python django
17:13
@hmmftg killall tnslsnr
@swasheck you ssh from the app server to the db box
lsnrctl start
@Phil Wow I dunno that
@myusuf3 PHP?
@JackDouglas python django
17:15
@rfusca this is opening a whole new world of possibilities to me ... so then what would your connection string look like?
@myusuf3 yay python
I'm worried that you've got an AIX box/lpar to dev on & no support from colleagues. A bit strange....
Yo @RolandoMySQLDBA
@swasheck ssh is not so great for persistent connections as a VPN - more used for ad-hoc work I think, right @rfusca?
@Phil we don't have any killall but kill -9 works fine
@JackDouglas but isnt that what @myusuf3 is requesting? a way to connect his django app to a remote db?
@myusuf3 this any use?
@swasheck yes - and it can be done with ssh, you just need to handle dropped connections
17:17
@JackDouglas gnarly rc script?
I find this easier with OpenVPN, but stuff like autossh exists
@swasheck yes :-)
I never write code unless I have to :-)
@Phil actually they stopped supporting my country!
Thanks god stackexchange didn't block us!
@myusuf3 surely this is the perfect time to save yourself the trouble and move to AVPC?
@hmmftg note that this chatroom is public and searchable by Google
@swasheck yes another python lover! :)
@JackDouglas i mean, definitely use a real VPN if you got it. But SSH tunnels work in a pinch. I don't think I've ever had the need to keep it around permanently
17:22
@rfusca yes, that's what I thought
@JackDouglas I think the ssh is going to cause more issues than it solves with python/django
I know how to connect to my db
I am just trying to secure access to my db
how ever that is done properly
@myusuf3 it is done properly with a VPN or ssh
@myusuf3 OpenVPN is not hard to set up - what platform are you on, Linux?
@JackDouglas i've never personally heard horror stories of SSL, but there's definitely been security patches around it - meaning there definitely were issues
@rfusca it's not so bad self-cert
but the trust system is irreparably broken imo
eg
it is also very complicated
you have the whole public key baggage that you don't need at all for secure point-to-point communication
its definitely a mess
@JackDouglas thats crazy
17:28
@myusuf3 you haven't really explained why your next step isn't a move to AVPC - I'd like to know why you don't want to do that right now and save yourself all this trouble?
@JackDouglas i am thinking
@JackDouglas lol nice
@JackDouglas dont forget, the Matrix had a real ssh hack in it though
an old one sure, but it was real!
12
Q: What is the difference between SSL vs SSH? Which is more secure?

Am1rr3zAWhat is the difference between SSH and SSL? Which one is more secure, if you can compare them together? Which has more potential vulnerabilities?

;( why I cannot start my listener? it says time out!!!
17:36
@hmmftg what do the logs say?
@Phil Listening on: (DESCRIPTION=(ADDRESS=(PROTOCOL=tcp)(HOST=testiold)(PORT=1521)))

Connecting to (DESCRIPTION=(ADDRESS=(PROTOCOL=TCP)(HOST=testiold)(PORT=1521)))
TNS-12535: TNS:operation timed out
TNS-12560: TNS:protocol adapter error
TNS-00505: Operation timed out
IBM/AIX RISC System/6000 Error: 78: Connection timed out
Doing what?
lsnrctl start ?
@Phil @Jack Yes lsnrctl start
Post your listener.ora into a new question
@hmmftg do you not have access to a DBA at work?
@Phil lol
17:40
Just that if you're struggling with this, I dread to think what problems you're going to run into with external procedures later on....
@Phil actually it is 22:00 here and he will never answer me this late!
Ah! So I'm on call. That'll be $100 please
:D
one thing that i've learned ... DBAs dont like being taken advantage of
@Phil The bad thing here is I'm also Oncall but software support not DBA!
dramatic and ominous music I'm having to install a Teradata client
17:42
@rfusca ooooh
I've been meaning to install it in a VM. Everyone seems scared of it. How hard can it be?
@Phil shrug I don't know, I just haven't heard great things. And I'm not real excited about picking it up as they're trying to transition stuff to it and while me transitioning into the admin role.
we just don't even need it is the main thing
@Phil I post the question
Was on a migration project a few years ago & a load of ETL stuff needed redoing to take output from our new stuff. Had to work with a Teradata consultant to do data mapping etc - was an utter nightmare (I knew the source system very well, he didn't know the destination system, but it was his job to do the data mapping). Would've been easier to send me on a Teradata course or just let me mess with it for a bit and talk to the techies that knew the target data model
I was a business analyst in my first job (for my sins), so I know how to turn thumb screws to get info :)
lol
@Phil well, I go on the 27th for a week of teradata training
Nice.
1) Go on week long Teradata course
2) Resign
3) Contract for $1000 a day
4) Yay!
17:51
lol
you're missing two steps
A week of training surely makes you billable for $250/hour. Proper expert!
</PriceWaterhouseCoopers>
1.4 - Company pays for Oracle certification
1.8 Company pays for teradata certification
whoa, the teradata gui client is eclipse based
I am modelling a database for an application I am developing and I am in front of choices for which I would like to know what the best practices are.

Let's say I have a Documents table and a Users Table. Users can be related to documents different ways: be the owner/creator, a document can be about a user but invisible to the user, or a document can have been made visible to a user.

I could model a Many-to-Many relationship with a table containing a DocId field, a UserId field, and a Status (Owner, Visible, or Invisible). The good thing about modelling things this way is that everything I
@Jean-FrançoisBeauchamp ask it as a question on the site, please
@Phil Well, I decided to post it here after reading the FAQ where they say not to ask open ended questions on the site... So I am not sure where is the place for such questions open to discussion.
18:01
@Jean-FrançoisBeauchamp well a unique constraint can take care of the two owners issue
@Phil I removed the (PROGRAM = extproc) from listener.ora
@Phil but now I cannot run my extenal proc!!! it says: ORA-28575: unable to open RPC connection to external procedure agent
ORA-06512: at "CALL_C_PROGRAM", line 1
ORA-06512: at line 5
@rfusca You're right. Let's see if I can sort things out as easily in my "real world" project...
@Jean-FrançoisBeauchamp If you have a finite set of those statuses (i.e. the three you've defined) I'd add an attribute to the document for each of them
@Phil should I create separate listener for extproc?
@Jean-FrançoisBeauchamp Post the Q to dba.se and see what the crowd has to say.
As per @Phil comment which I didn't see because I'm turning into a blind old duffer
18:07
def ask on the site, but I don't think you can add an attribute...it sounds like more than one person can be set to visible or invisible
@MarkStorey-Smith Hi - if this is up your street and you have the time to spare it'd be great if you could take a look:
6
Q: Setting up a central CLR storeproc/function respository library for internal stored procs in other databases to use?

Alex ErwinI would like to use code that I developed in C Sharp CLR to be used in all of the databases on the system so that I don't have to set each to trustworthy and turn CLR on and keep a bunch of the same code inside each one. Is there a best way to do this from an administrative and security standpoi...

@MarkStorey-Smith I am not sure of what kind of attribute you meant... Ok, I'll post my question on dba.se. However, I am getting this warning when typing my question there: "The question you're asking appears subjective and is likely to be closed."
Aaron has already discussed but had to head off

migration discussion

2 hours ago, 16 minutes total – 24 messages, 5 users, 0 stars

Bookmarked 9 secs ago by Jack Douglas

@Jean-FrançoisBeauchamp Sorry, partially misread. Owner would be a column on document, visibility you'd have to introduce an additional table.
Also, didn't know the stack engine was now able to identify the subjective nature of a question before its posted
@JackDouglas Can't think of anything I could add beyond that posted by MrBrownstone, sorry.
@MarkStorey-Smith its tried to for awhile now
18:31
Check out my answer update!
9
A: Why are queries parsed in such a way that disallows the use of column aliases in most clauses?

ErikEI did some research and found some good information. The following is a direct quote from a primary source: When SQL was first invented, it had no aliases in the SELECT clause. This was a serious shortcoming that was corrected when the language was standardized by ANSI in about 1986. ...

@ErikE i'd suggest a summary at top
@ErikE Good stuff. Link to the quote source would be useful.
@JackDouglas Posted this one for you
0
Q: Floating point rounding

Cade RouxCan an IEEE-754 floating point number < 1 (i.e. generated with a random number generator which generates a number >= 0.0 and < 1.0) ever be multiplied by some integer (in floating point form) to get a number equal to or larger than that integer due to rounding? i.e. double r = random() ; ...

18:57
@swasheck Well, I have had a bit of an upset stomach lately.
@Phil £1,200 - remember we charge by the day.
bit of bad digestion, eh?
@swasheck Something like that.
@MarkStorey-Smith I can't. He asked me not to include his name. He said he has enough notoriety...
@JackDouglas I think the appropriate thing here is that I'm really looking to reduce global usage and instead implement methods so that the behavior can be contained later, if need be. I think that's the right idea, anyways.
somewhat of a separation of concerns, since I don't think I can do full blown classes in a scripting language and have it make sense
19:16
@MarkStorey-Smith But you can figure out who it is since Raymond F. Boyce of Boyce-Codd Normal Form died and is thus unavailable for interview. It's not Codd.
 
2 hours later…
20:52
@CadeRoux excellent - I signed up just so I could upvote you :-)
Well we ARE irrational! #harhar RT @bkavoussi: There now are Pi (3.14159265) x 100 mil people in the U.S., according to U.S. Census Bureau
@jcolebrand do you mean global to the script?
@jcolebrand ha in javascript you can do better than classes as you well know :p
@ErikE awesome answer
@JackDouglas yes, because a) the script uses a lot of includes, and b) the script is over 12 files with over 1200 lines of code all told, and that's with me having already gone negative code over the past few days.
@JackDouglas I wish I had Javascript everywhere
21:09
@JackDouglas I'm having trouble following the answer... ;-)
Huh, learned something new, the assembly does go with the database. I could have sworn back in 2005 I needed to copy the DLL and deploy / register on the new server when I moved a database.
 
1 hour later…
22:39
@JackDouglas Thank you very much!
23:23
@JackDouglas Looks like it's guaranteed for reasonable integer scaling. For very large (cosmic) integers it can fail because the integer won't convert to a float exactly.
03:00 - 17:0017:00 - 00:00

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