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ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells

8:01 AM

morning

Tom V

8:30 AM

Morning

8:48 AM

Morning all

1 hour later…

Tom V

9:55 AM

"pulls hilarious practical jokes on people" like leaving with everyone's money? — MikeTheLiar 16 hours ago

3 hours later…

ypercubeᵀᴹ

12:42 PM

Q: Do I have to bring up a candidate's troubled history?

About 3 years ago, my coworker "Charles" convinced 14 people in my org to join a Fantasy Football league with a $100 buy-in. (14 people pay $100 at the beginning, and then the $1,400 would be distributed to the top 3 teams). I was not one of these people. It was a bit much for an office pool, ...

Joe Obbish

1:41 PM

@ypercubeᵀᴹ want to join my fantasy football league?

ypercubeᵀᴹ

@JoeObbish yeah sure. Let me look around where I have 100 $ ;)

Andriy M

2:36 PM

@JoeObbish You're not planning to quit The Heap in two days, are you ;)

Lamak

I've always had the mild curiosity to figure out just what is Fantasy Football

Philᵀᴹ

PostgreSQL 11 released. postgresql.org/about/news/1894

ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells

3:04 PM

A few nice toys - better parallel queries and covering indexes.

Maybe I shall seek out an opportunity to build a DW system on Postgres.

1 hour later…

A: What purpose do relational databases serve?

4:27 PM

@ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells you should call it Netezza

2 hours later…

MDCCL

6:39 PM

Somebody might like to upvote the following Stack Overflow answer:

I think there are two questions here: Why the relational model? Why apply normalization principles when designing a relational database? A1. In answer to the first question, the relational model is an extremely flexible and powerful abstraction of data. It supports data integrity rules, data ...

2 hours later…

8:32 PM

interesting docs.microsoft.com/en-us/azure/sql-database/…

@MaxVernon it's a really neat piece of technology - my favourite feature of SQL Server 2019 so far.

yah, and Persisted Version Store! sweet!

Yep. Takes some load off tempdb as well. Note the PVS is used for RCSI/SI versions as well.

It's quite amazing to see a long-running transaction rollback and release all its locks immediately.

that's neat

exactly what I was thinking. For the scenario where you have many RCSI databases on a single instance, that might be really big!

8:42 PM

I left a transaction open for 24 hours, did a whole lot of log-generating stuff, restarted the instance, and it recovered immediately, with all data fully available for querying/updating. Quite like magic really.

@PaulWhite that could have saved me 24 hours of fear and loathing a while back ;-)

although there's nothing quite like 24 hours of recovery to make you understand how that stuff works.

Yeah I think pretty much everyone will have experienced a long wait for rollback/recovery at some stage of their career.

The other thing I like is the transaction log behaving almost like SIMPLE recovery w.r.t truncation, even when there is a long-running transaction.

just a couple of weeks ago we had a vendor-provided upgrade utility that timed-out after 30 minutes, necessitating around 40 minutes of rollback every time it timed out. Lovely.

But mostly, I like the technology idea of applying the version store to the recovery process.

@PaulWhite yah. As soon as a I read the headline, it seemed immediately obvious what was going on! I was like "OMG, why didn't I think of that" :-)

so obvious, and yet so completely cool

sometimes you just can't see the wood for the trees

8:46 PM

yep yep exactly

I expect the feature will be underappreciated

I agree. Most people will never really even know it exists. Recovery will just become something that "happens", without any impact.

Then, 10 years from now, we can all sit around and talk about what it was like when recovery used to be a thing

Well they might appreciate its effects but not necessarily the cleverness of the implementation

right :-)

i'm more excited about PVS at the individual database level.

I can just imagine the design meeting where someone proposed rewriting the crash recovery/rollback process from ARIES to version store.

8:48 PM

yah, that's really cool

wondering about the interactions of the PVS with availability groups

@PaulWhite I wonder if their supervisor took all the glory.

@swasheck PVS is 'replicated' to the secondary. Mostly transparent.

right. on a readable secondary all reads are RSCI (at a minimum). is this also going to be in the individual database PVS now?

One of the great things about the implementation is how orthogonal it is. Things like AGs, distributed transactions and whatnot just work.

@swasheck Yep

So long as indirect checkpoints are set up reasonably frequently, failover/recovery ought to be much faster.

There's a little extra log generated (but no more flushes) so it's reasonably close to a free lunch. I'd much rather pay an ongoing small overhead than wait 18 hours for rollback/recovery anyway. Won't suit every workload, but then nothing does.

8:53 PM

... and that was already acceptably fast, over against a FCI

it should be neat.

It's a shame they couldn't come up with a better name.

But that's marketing for you.

which? ADR or PVS?

i like PVS. ADR is a bit silly

ADR

was originally called CTR (constant time recovery)

naming things is hard

Perhaps they'll rename it again

Instant On™ perhaps 🙄😃

I agree PVS is quite good.

Always On
Always Encrypted
Always Nearly Recovered

heh

hopefully the feature will make it to a box product CTP soon

9:05 PM

@PaulWhite otherwise it'll be around 2025 before it gets implemented here, knowing how that works :-(

that's like, 8 versions from now!

y'know I wouldn't be altogether surprised if Microsoft offered to upgrade people to 2019 for free like they did for Windows 10.

tbf my surprise bar for Microsoft actions is quite a bit higher these days

jadarnel27

That would be awesome.

Also, I don't think I mentioned it the other day when you brought this new feature up, but the whole ADR thing is mind-blowing. So cool.

I suppose one can already do that by moving to Azure

you get all the upgrades all the time

9:20 PM

@jadarnel27 I'm glad you agree

jadarnel27

@swasheck whether you want them or not :P

well that's not entirely true, they've put quite a bit of work into ensuring stability for people that need that

i'm still a bit fuzzy on managed instance and how that breaks down differently from a DBA tweaking and tuning perspective, but that's because i've invested nearly 0 time into reading about it

MI is confusing

It probably solves some important problem, but like you I haven't invested any time in reading about it