La tertulia

hippietrail

7:00 PM

isnt it "preterite" in english and "preterit" in french?

Aarthi Devanathan

yes

Flimzy

maybe

if so, my spell check is wrong :)

I wrote 'preterite' and it complained

hippietrail

i almost changed the tag but decided to leave it because some of that stuff differs enough from language to language that the terms dont cross-apply so well even if they terms are cognates

Aarthi Devanathan

@Flimzy huh you're right.

/investigates

hippietrail

funny my spell checker did the opposite! i have google chrome on windows set i think to en-AU

Aarthi Devanathan

7:02 PM

Preterite

The preterite (abbreviated or , in American English also preterit; aorist, simple past, past indicative, or past historic) is the grammatical tense expressing actions that took place or were completed in the past. It is generally the perfective aspect of the past tense (not to be confused with the similarly named perfect aspect) and may thus be more precisely called the perfective past, but in English, which does not have an inflection for perfective aspect, the term is used for the simple past tense. Preterites in Romance languages Latin In Latin, the perfect tense most commonly fun...

So it's both, in English. Thank you, French influences.

Flimzy

heh, cute

hippietrail

> 41.7% only this proposal

Aarthi Devanathan

eh?

hippietrail

hehe funny how sometimes the US hates on france and sometimes they love them (-:

but those area 51 stats might only be talking about activity on area51 and not all of stackexchange

Aarthi Devanathan

laughs I just understand the linguistic history of English.

hola, @aedia :D

I've seen you over in ELU, haven't i?

aedia λ

7:05 PM

@AarthiDevanathan Hola!

Aarthi Devanathan

Que tal, amigo/a?

aedia λ

@AarthiDevanathan Yes indeed!

hippietrail

i prefer my EL&U in small doses

aedia λ

@AarthiDevanathan Estoy bien! Y tu?

Aarthi Devanathan

@aediaλ A mi tambien. :D

hippietrail

7:06 PM

oh hey @aedia! i know you from somewhere too - where? i'm terrible with names

aedia λ

@hippietrail A veces hablamos en Linguistics :)

aha por eso!

:D

El interrobang (//) () es un signo de puntuación inglés no estándar. Su uso está poco extendido y se creó con la función de combinar la función del signo de interrogación y el de exclamación (conocido en la jerga inglesa de la imprenta como bang). El carácter tipográfico es la superposición de ambos signos. Es frecuente el uso de ambos signos consecutivamente para esta misma función; e.g., «¿¡Cómo has podido hacer algo así!?», «Cómo has podido hacer algo así» Uso Un frase terminada en interrobang (1) formula una pregunta de manera emocionada, (2) expresa emoción o incredulidad en forma...

i wonder if the spanish speaking author of that wikipedia article thinks of it as english or if it's a direct translation of some version of the english article?

not the difference here:

Interrobang

The interrobang, interabang (), (often represented by ), is a nonstandard punctuation mark used in various written languages and intended to combine the functions of the question mark (also called the “interrogative point”) and the exclamation mark or exclamation point (known in printers’ jargon as the “bang”). The glyph is a superimposition of these two marks. The Unicode code point is U+203D. Application A sentence ending with an interrobang asks a question in an excited manner, expresses excitement or disbelief in the form of a question, or asks a rhetorical question. For example:...

> used in various written languages

Flimzy

@hippietrail: Thanks for that... I updated my answer to the question.

hippietrail

7:13 PM

nicly done with the comment on the term of endearment question @Flimzy

no hay problema!

at this early time i would like to ask everybody when making new tags please think whether it's best as a plural first before making singular tags

aedia λ

@hippietrail If you look at the history of the page it seems the original version says it's "an English-language punctuation mark"... pues... puede ser una traduccion

hippietrail

sí. muchas páginas de Wikipedia son traducciones

Flimzy

I reached my rep cap for the day... I think that means I should do some work.

Aarthi Devanathan

@Flimzy orrrrr skive and chatter con nosotros!

con nosgo?

i use "conmigo" so much in English, it's silly

hippietrail

does anybody know what this means form one of the answers: "also a guttural priming of this sound"

Flimzy

7:22 PM

@AarthiDevanathan: Easy for you to say... you get paid for this :)

hippietrail

you can put your feet up @Flimzy

Aarthi Devanathan

Proverbially! :D

hippietrail

1

A: How is the letter 's' (or the 's' sound) pronounced in Spain?

In Spain is pronounced as a long version of the English voiceless dental fricative "th". It is common in Spanish also a guttural priming of this sound, rendered in the written language as "es" (e.g., escrito).

woah i hit my cap!

in fact i surpassed it!

oh no i didn't. even though i used up my days votes hours ago i'm not on the same day as far as rep goes \-:

yeah 4 hours till i can vote again

Flimzy

I've only ever hit my voting cap in real-life elections

hippietrail

on linguistics i'm usually too unsure to vote on anything

OK so who among us can roll their "r"s?

Flimzy

7:28 PM

It's never been hard for me

Aarthi Devanathan

@hippietrail Me! mememe!

I spoke a different language as a wee wee child though

My younger sibling -- who did not really speak that language -- cannot.

hippietrail

i could also do it too. probably because i loved making funny noises and sound effects as a kid and you need to be able to roll an "r" do make a good "flying saucer landing" sound (-:

Flimzy

What language did you speak as a child?

hippietrail

@Flimzy +1

Aarthi Devanathan

@Flimzy Tamil. My family is from Madras/Chennai.

Flimzy

7:32 PM

Interesting

Aarthi Devanathan

Interestingly, Dravidian languages have many of the same dipthongs and vocalizations that Spanish does.

Including the "softened" d/t sounds.

hippietrail

i made a tag ser-vs-estar because i thought we would get a steady flow of such questions. i've held of on por-vs-para for now though

Flimzy

I'm the first in my family to ever seriously attempt to learn a foreign language

hippietrail

მეც

Flimzy

I have a younger sister now who's trying to learn German... so maybe the trend will continue.

hippietrail

7:33 PM

aber jetzt kann ich ein paar sprachen spreche

Flimzy

Maybe I can take her with me to Germany in a couple years... I've never been, but would like to visit... and a translator would be nice.

aedia λ

@hippietrail It's always been easy for me, but my mom taught me a little Spanish when I was a kid (she studied and traveled more than I have). So I think I never really had to "learn" some of the pronunciations.

hippietrail

germany's great

Flimzy

6

Q: Search seems too-accent-sensitive

A search for que does not show results for qué. I think this makes the site less usable--especially for Spanish beginners. Can the search engine be modified to not be "accent-sensitive"? (Is that a real term?)

hippietrail

anyone here have trouble with any other spanish sounds?

Flimzy

7:35 PM

Should this be posted on meta.so? Or will it get sufficient attention from the powers that be here?

hippietrail

no. the "which meta site" question gets aksed a lot. the standard answer is that the SE people monitor all meta sites. also in my experience meta.SO is full of easily upset trolls and pedants and other kinds of vicious monsters eager to close anything vaguely shaped like an innocent question

Aarthi Devanathan

@Flimzy the current moderators are community team. they'll see it and migrate if they feel ok about it.

aedia λ

@AarthiDevanathan Oh that's cool!

Flimzy

okay, cool.

Aarthi Devanathan

@aediaλ Haha, I suppose? It's my reality, so I guess the novelty is lost. :P

@Flimzy buuuuut i'll make sure they see it :D

Flimzy

7:37 PM

I'm a bit surprised that's still a bug... surely it would have been noticed on some of the other language sites by now...

Aarthi Devanathan

This is definitely a better question here:

How do I say, "I don't give a fuck," in Mexican-style slang?

Is it, "No me da un chingue"?

hippietrail

as a former professional programmer and beta tester i think of it as a bug

but it can equally be thought of as a feature request so i think both tags are ok for that question

Flimzy

@AarthiDevanathan: I have no idea no that one. "No me importa" says the same thing, but it's not vulgar.

hippietrail

dammit my chilango slang isn't good enough but i know a great website

no me importa = i don't care. it's weaker and sanitized

Flimzy

vulgar is one area I know almost nothing about in Spanish

hippietrail

7:43 PM

but it's also all i can think of

Aarthi Devanathan

hmmm

chingar—originating from the Basque verb txingartu, meaning "to burn with coal" or from Caló (Spanish Romani) word čingarár, meaning "to fight."[1] In the work La Chingada, it was famously applied to La Malinche, the mistress of Hernán Cortés.
In Mexico, chingar means "to fuck" or "to make a mistake" ("to fuck up"). For example: Chinga a tu madre or Vete y chinga a tu madre ("Go fuck your mother") are often considered very offensive in Mexico. Vete a la chingada translates to "go fuck yourself." Other uses are considered less offensive.

Wikipedia~!

Flimzy

Google translate says "No me importa una mierda."

Which in turn translates back into "I don't give a shit"

hippietrail

Effective Swearing in D.F. ("Towards a Manual of Communication for English Speakers visiting Mexico City")

Aarthi Devanathan

@Flimzy I'm not honey badger!

hippietrail

"No me importa una mierda." sounds right to me though i bet there are more colourful regional ways

Aarthi Devanathan

7:46 PM

> The phrases … me importa un cojón or … me importa un huevo mean "I don't give a fuck about …." In alternative variations one would raise the number, usually to three: … me importa tres cojones.

Richard

@AarthiDevanathan LOL

Aarthi Devanathan

Best.

Flimzy

@AarthiDevanathan: honey badger? You lost me...

Aarthi Devanathan

I know tons of palabrotas.

hippietrail

> Me vale verga: I could give a shit

Aarthi Devanathan

7:47 PM

I actually am foul-mouthed in real life -- like exceptionally so. So, I love learning to curse someone out in Spanish.

It sounds much more fun in Spanish, too.

hippietrail

keep in mind though that mexico is so big that it doesn't have just one style of slang!

Flimzy

@AarthiDevanathan: You remind me of a "friend" I had in high school... she wanted to learn Klingon (!!) specifically so she could cuss.

hippietrail

mexico city has a street language all its own

Flimzy

DF has lots of street things all its own

Richard

So... (still learning) me importa un huevo sobre esta?

Correctly using sobre is something that confuses me.

hippietrail

7:49 PM

georgian sounds like klingon sometimes and is usually more useful d-;

Aarthi Devanathan

@Richard It's [algo] me importa un cojon.

hippietrail

yeah sobre is tricky

aedia λ

@AarthiDevanathan Tamil has such a cool writing system and interesting phonology (no aspirated consonants, voiced and unvoiced consonants are allophones...) If I had family who spoke it I would be trying to learn :o)

Richard

@AarthiDevanathan Huh. ok. Thanks. ;)

Aarthi Devanathan

@aediaλ I do try and speak with my parents. I....don't know those linguistical terms! :O

Richard

7:50 PM

My mother-in-law was born in Mexico. It's always good to keep up on this. :P

Aarthi Devanathan

@Richard At least, insofar as I can tell. So for your example....

aedia λ

@Flimzy Honey badger.

Aarthi Devanathan

Yeah. It's would be something like, "Sus deseos me importa un huevo."

"I don't give a fuck about what you want."

Flimzy

@aedia: I feel enlightened now...

hippietrail

i'm gonna take a break and see if there are other humans about. hasta pronto

Aarthi Devanathan

7:53 PM

I say, cojón is even MORE vulgar, giving the phrase the weight I'd want it to have.

@hippietrail hasta luego

Richard

LOL. Right on... I'll keep this in mind.

Aarthi Devanathan

If you don't know: cojónes = male genetalia

Flimzy

@AarthiDevanathan: Specifically testicles, no?

Aarthi Devanathan

@Flimzy Took me a second, but yes.

aedia λ

8:06 PM

@AarthiDevanathan Aspiration example: Say "pit" and "spit" with your hand or a tissue, paper, etc. held a little bit in front of your mouth. You'll feel a puff of air for the first word that's not there for the second: in English, we think of both as the same /p/ but the first is aspirated (linguists would write that pʰ) and the second isn't. Some languages distinguish.

Aarthi Devanathan

@aediaλ tamil being one of them? do all the Dravidian languages do that?

aedia λ

@AarthiDevanathan As far as I understand the interesting thing is actually that many Indian languages do distinguish aspirated consonants and Tamil doesn't.

That could be true of more Dravidian languages than just Tamil, I'm not sure.

Aarthi Devanathan

Huh. That's really cool. It explains the word for banana too.

varaparam is SO HARD TO SAY

Flimzy

speaking of the word for banana... Is the word "banana" ever used in spanish? We always say "plátano" here, but I've heard that "banana" is taught in some Spanish classes in the U.S.

Aarthi Devanathan

I hear it in central american spanish sometimes.

I wonder: how are bananas and plantains differentiated in spanish?

aedia λ

8:21 PM

@AarthiDevanathan Wikipedia sez in general the Dravidian languages don't whereas, for example, here's Hindi-Urdu <- that second page also describes voicing pretty well, which is something else that is allophonic in Tamil, though not in English

Aarthi Devanathan

Holy crap, all the linguistics!

I'm not very well-versed in linguistical terminology

hippietrail

dammit i couldn't stay away

we can give you all the linguistic terminology you need

Aarthi Devanathan

go go go! explaiiiiin.

aedia λ

6

Q: Weird behavior of two fruits' names (ananas/pineapple, banana/plátano)

Some time ago I found two tables that reported the names for two fruits, which were supposed to be funny, because they specifically reported a single exception among those several languages, where this fruit's name was different for only one of those languages. I cropped the images to avoid spa...

language-change evolution cognates

We talked about bananas some here too

Flimzy

heh

Here pineapple is always piña

Which makes it more like English than the other languages

Also, English uses the word 'Plantain' as well..

for the group of fruits which 'banana' is a member of

hippietrail

8:26 PM

but piña isnt always pineapple

well hindi/urdu isn't even related to tamil

Richard

@Flimzy True, but aren't those always a specific type of banana?

@Flimzy Oh, I see... yeah... didn't read far enough. ;)

Flimzy

@Richard: In english, I think it's more accurate to say that banana is a specific type of plantain

hippietrail

depending on which spanish there are more distinctions than just banana and plantain!

Richard

@Flimzy Yeah, I think you're right.

hippietrail

plátano banana banano guineo and i think there should be at least one other word

Flimzy

8:28 PM

I've heard another word for "cooking bananas"

(which we'd probably call "plantains" in a U.S. supermarket)

Richard

Is Spanish more varying by region than other languages?

Flimzy

I can't remember what that word was, though

hippietrail

arabic varies a lot more than spanish

and as for chinese you can hardly even bring up the topic without starting a debate

Richard

Interesting.

hippietrail

cambur!

topocho??

: El nombre de plátano, banana, banano, cambur, topocho o guineo agrupa a un gran número de plantas herbáceas del género Musa, tanto híbridos obtenidos ...

Richard

8:41 PM

@hippietrail en una sentencia?

hippietrail