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2:00 AM
Q: Will you let them loose?

TimModerators, are you going to let this one https://dba.meta.stackexchange.com/users/5555/phil%e1%b5%80%e1%b4%b9 loose? Persistently went after me and called me trolling at Complain on moderator Paul White's violating privacy and suffocating speech. Posted a cartoon youtube video to mock and ...

what does that title even mean?
Jesus Christ this padawan needs work.
soo unrefined
1 hour later…
3:03 AM
@McNets is rum off-topic for dba? i think not. i've done some of my best on-call work blitzed on scotch
@PaulWhite9 TIPE TO ME
@swasheck No fun now I'm on a real keyboard
@EvanCarroll i think you mean, "RONALD REAGAN"
@PaulWhite9 son of a nutcracker
what's the 9 for?
chat in stackexchange kinda feels like abandonware
3:30 AM
@PaulWhite9 how was sonic?
the hedgehog?
or the burger drive-in?
@swasheck I assume he was going to watch the sonic the hedgehog movie
@Lamak About what I expected
at least they changed the initial abomination that it was
@Lamak The rendering of Sonic himself you mean?
It was entertaining enough and a nice diversion on a damp Tuesday afternoon.
Plus we had popcorn.
3:45 AM
@PaulWhite9 yes
Jim Carrey was Jim Carrey
@PaulWhite9 yes...in a role that mostly fits jim carrey
such a method actor
he is very flexible
i'm glad they are calling him Robotnik and not Eggman
dam millennials and their dumb Dr Eggman. it's an insult not his name
3:55 AM
doughtnut lord
and of course they left an opening for a sequel
with the female character whatever she was called
foxy something or other
Oh yes. Tails.
i thought that was dora
the explorer?
Miles "Tails" Prower (Japanese: テイルス, Hepburn: Teirusu) is a fictional character in Sega's Sonic the Hedgehog series, and the title character's best friend, sidekick, and most recurring ally. Tails also appears in his own spin-off series, comic books, cartoons, and films. He is the second character to consistently appear by Sonic's side in the series. The name "Miles Prower" is a pun on "miles per hour", a reference to the famed speed of Sonic the Hedgehog. He is a two-tailed fox hence the nickname. A mechanical genius and skilled pilot, he is able to fly due to his two tails being able to rotate...
4:04 AM
how many other doras do you know?
i stand corrected
@swasheck I don't know any doras
that's ridiculous. who names the female lead "tails"?
is tails female?
I assumed it was female, turns out Tails is male and has two tails
I only saw them briefly at the end of the movie
4:08 AM
assuming gender, how SE of you
too soon?
seems like ages ago
good point. now get off my lawn
4:11 AM
you demon
deemon please
i love daemons.
4:27 AM
So dreamy
a real deemon came to chat
catch him if you can
wasn't that DiCaprio?
i think that's ben affleck
oh. nevermind. whoosh!
4:44 AM
The name's Damon, Matt Damon.
A J 9 Nice 9
5:11 AM
Sonic - Introduce Sonic and Robotnik
Sonic 2 - Introduce Tails
Sonic 3 - Introduce Knuckles
Sonic 4 - Introduce the rest
Sonic 4 will end up being like Sonic Avengers Endgame
1 hour later…
6:30 AM
@MasterDatabase Surely that will help lift the system imposed question ban :D
Good morning all. Did I miss anything?
Good morning @gbn
Who's the current village idiot then? Me, because I have to ask...?
The latest local drama is still in progress
Weren't you the previous village idiot? Hard to keep track these days
6:32 AM
@TomV-trytopanswers.xyz I'm claiming the crown back
The competition is fierce the last couple of days
@TomV-trytopanswers.xyz isn't Meta separate from a main site system ban?
@Memor-X I think it's more about his behaviour and credibility in general, not about technical connection
Peter got an honorable mention this time as well
> Claimed that I am going to say the earth is flat.
didn't they just do that?
self for fulling prophecy
i do like how the 2 extra characters in Phil's name translate to %e1%b5%80%e1%b4%b9 in the url
6:39 AM
People don't wear those characters in their nicknames for nothing
@Memor-X That claim is a bit of a stretch imo:
18 hours ago, by Philᵀᴹ
I'm half expecting him to drop the "The Earth is flat" bombshell soon
@TomV-trytopanswers.xyz lil’ ol’ me? 🥺
7:00 AM
@PeterVandivier Don't underestimate yourself. You are top of the community and you've got elite friends
@swasheck never!!
@AndriyM the top 1% of users control 99% of the silliness
7:15 AM
@PeterVandivier Ah, so that's what that suppression must be
Mystery solved, comrade. We must begin redistribution of the Jokes
Could I at least keep those I've explained at great length?
The explanations are common property now
8:00 AM
humm, I thought I posted a comment on the meta question...
Go home @McNets, you’re drunk 😉
@PeterVandivier 😂 I lied, it was a disclaimer just in case...
I never lie about being drunk
But that’s easy because I usually am
Morning! Oh, I have mentions. Scrolls back
@Philᵀᴹ STrolls back
8:05 AM
@PeterVandivier That explains a lot
"mocking me with the youtube catoon character" -- Oh, it wasn't me that did that. It was Beavis
@A_V I used to use it. Then we stopped offering it as a porting option & everyone shifted to Oracle. It used to get very grumpy with lock escalation, but that was 20 years ago when memory wasn't as easy to come by and I was playing with TB of data
Oh, no, I'm in trouble now
@McNets You did. It was flagged as "unfriendly or unkind", which it was.
@EvanCarroll this new AI of yours needs some refinement
@PaulWhite9 no more than his messages here, but it's ok
Attacked my posts on the main site, by deleting my post and very likely downvoting my posts including very early ones.
8:17 AM
Two wrongs don't make a right...
I don't think anybody here downvoted his early post
No way to know
I think someone else said further up - bit worried about this dude now. Probably needs some IRL help
I'm pretty sure it's going to escalate
8:41 AM
@Philᵀᴹ yea, that was me. like - rehashing what has happened isn't productive, but there's a concerning fixation demonstrated in the way he keeps coming back to fight with people who really aren't fighting back with him. or at least certainly not to the level he thinks we are
i'm not gonna let him nuke the silly back and forth i enjoy about chat, but i do get a little meta-think when i start to wonder if he's actually okay or not
@TomV-trytopanswers.xyz i really hope it doesn't... :/
He might actually not be an adult. If he is, his behaviour and reactions are bizarrely immature. So it looks concerning either way.
@AndriyM I never told you but I'm seventeen right now...
I'm not actually bothered about him singling me out for a meta post
the dude's been on SO/SE for a decade. he's not a child. and that whole "_they accused me of being a child_" thing was never a thing. it was [a joke during the rice exchange](https://chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/message/53544814#53544814)
> You can put rice on salad
> You’re an adult
> I assume
> (Are you a child)
i feel like that's a fairly obvious joke setup, but i'm happy to EAGL it if need be
tbh i don't think explaining anything to this guy is helpful though, cause he's so clearly looking to be offended
Ah yes, even his DBA account, where he isn't very active, is very old. That's a good point.
9:05 AM
Q: Are "too broad" and "needs more focus" abolishable?

TimQ&A can be conducted at different levels of details. If a question asks about the big picture, an answer should just answer the big picture. The sun is giagantic, but when you see from the Earth, it is "focused". If you use a microscope to look at an ant, the ant is not "focused". Which level of ...

That settles it. He knows what 'Too broad' means very well.
As a curious self-learner, his position on that subject is understandable, but as a veteran SE user, he should still know better than being stubborn insistent on submitting such broad questions.
9:18 AM
Also, I think that meta question shows that he's not a flat Earth believer.
Reading the remaining comments on that post seems to imply there may have been some of the familiar inflammatory statements made there as well
The "'Abuses', 'power users' blah.." comment certainly raised an eyebrow
9:34 AM
All of his accounts are hidden. And some of them are still in cooldown. That in itself doesn't have to be telling much, but it isn't nothing either.
10:31 AM
@Philᵀᴹ It seems that majority his rep comes from questions rather than answers
11:05 AM
@PeterVandivier Peter "completely gone out of control from the beginning" Vandivier
fake news
i was out of control well before then
Builds a wall
i am opposed to walls as they reduce the free flow of both rice and chicken
11:23 AM
Not to mention salad
only for the grown ups
Are you eating? lunch?
I'm not eating lunch, but I will be, soon (hopefully)
11:43 AM
@AndriyM I'm hungry, and you talking about rice, chicken and salad!!! ;)
Hmm, dunno what to have for lunch
Cooked a nice curry last night
@Philᵀᴹ what were the ingredients?
@Philᵀᴹ Ah. Nice. Same as what we use except prawns.
12:16 PM
@Philᵀᴹ since I consider this kind of messaging counterproductive and unhelpful, I've edited the content of the question out, and have voted to delete the message. If Tim has a problem tell him not to @ me.
12:32 PM
Edit war!
@Philᵀᴹ Did you remove your post?
Seeing as the question has been nuked
I didn't mean your answer should go, but at the end of the day I suppose it won't really matter.
Indeedy, makes no difference
@McNets I was hungry too! But hey, then I went to have lunch and that helped :)
12:34 PM
A third person needs to hit delete on that
@MaxVernon As a moderator, I'd advise not to engage in rollback war. Raise a flag instead.
just to put my 2 cents in, i would encourage people not to engage in the edit war, or indeed engage on those posts anymore than you feel absolutely compelled to. but also i'm really hoping the friendly neighborhood spider mods will step in and properly nuke them
I did
@AndriyM I hate the word lunch, I can't afford lunch
@AJ9 ah, well, you beat me to the sentiment then :p
12:35 PM
@PeterVandivier I didn't get you.
@TomV-trytopanswers.xyz I'm so sorry. I'll try to avoid mentioning the word 'lunch' going forward. I mean, going to lunch. And coming back from lunch too.
@TomV-trytopanswers.xyz How about mid-day meal?
@AJ9 ? just meant that i was too slow typing this and you scooped the sentiment with the additional authority of a mod (didn't actually realize you were one)
I only had salad
@TomV-trytopanswers.xyz with rice?
12:37 PM
With goat cheese
which was nice
@PeterVandivier You can recognize easily. Mods have names in blue color.
tbh i never noticed the color difference until just now, it's very subtle IMO
Undercover policing
A spy
Signs of oppression
12:39 PM
Damn these elite, they're everywhere with their privs
Take a break, @MaxVernon
@Philᵀᴹ Last week I would have supported a revolution, but now I'm part of the elite, so screw those proles
@MaxVernon FWIW, I don't think we should edit out the contents the way you did or delete the Q altogether. It may be a rant but it's a complaint. The OP doesn't have access to chat at the moment (as far as I'm aware) so meta is the only place for that kind of complaint for him.
@AJ9 lock the question, please
Sod it, I'm moving to North Korea. Way more liberal
12:44 PM
@MaxVernon I am not a moderator on Database Administrators
Then what purpose are you serving by asking me to cool off? This Tim needs to stop with the calling out of respected members of the community.
we've all been trying to help this person far too long.
I am just saying if there is a rollback war, don't engage in it. Just raise a custom moderator flag.
To be fair, we need to leave him alone and ignore him
@MaxVernon Relax Max. No need to get all worked up over some internet troll
I'm not wotked up lol
12:47 PM
yet :)
Some people just need to be stood up to occasionally
um... i already raised the most helpful custom flag of all
Not really much point if they're really confused, though
Chat is confused! It hurt itself in its confusion...
It makes one wonder what one needs to do to get a account-banned
12:54 PM
Ask @EvanCarroll :D
☝️this guy gets it
I think the guy is entertaining
He's a quick learner, his trolling is quickly becoming more subtle. At times the rough edges still show but he's improving a lot. Evan is teaching him well
hey y'all stop feeding the troll. Just flag and move on.
1:06 PM
Thanks Taryn
Thanks @Taryn, saves me the trouble of thinking up of a response. I'm still not convinced he's a troll to be honest, but you seem to have no doubt about that. Is he really a troll? Do you know him (or of him)?
@AndriyM I think we need to just take her advice and leave it be?
I agree, that seems like the best course of action. I guess I just want to know for the future.
@MaxVernon You have to start by being indisputably right. That's the first qualifier. If you're wrong you're just laughing stock. No idea on how to get banned if you go down that route. But if you're right it's usually enough to just politely make your case. That's how I do it.
@AndriyM No, I don't know them, but it's just easier to flag and move on. I totally understand the desire to engage, but it doesn't do anyone any good
1:16 PM
Like take the case and point when that corrupted moderator suggested that the company he work for get DBA.SE's free sponsorship for his proprietary production that works on only one proprietary database, and he sold that as a being a "service" to the community. I'm not being a jerk. Any objective bystander would want to know how that mod wasn't removed and banned. So what did they do? They banned me.
That's the easy way to get removed. Or you could be vulgar which is petty kid shit and eventually in 100 million years when people are done being entertained, they may ask you to stop.
If he wants to rival my record, he's doing a lot of work. At least we know he's not lazy.
Defo fighting your cause, whatever that might be
@Taryn Thanks
do mods need a non-mod flag to take action on posts like that?
esp. when they're so visible
@PeterVandivier No not need but they're helpful in gauging opinion.
i kind of assume flags in these situations are just redundant, but happy to raise still if helpful 🤷‍♂️
okay then
2:05 PM
I have a 10,000 character json column, which I want to do a include aka like operation on...
maybe 1000 rows or more...
I am thinking about creating a checksum column instead, are there any better ideas ?
What do you mean? Store a checksum and keep the .json file external to the DB? How will the file itself be used?
at the present file is stored in table as well
querying it would be expensive operation
so maybe storing a hash would be faster and quick way ?
only got an hour to fix the issue though lol
if it's on the FS, just store the full path
seeing as filenames are unique
its not in fs, its stored in database
@Mathematics what about two tables?
2:12 PM
but it all depends on your design etc
@McNets one with data and other with hash ?
@Mathematics yes
I will have to change references at few places then, but it was a consideration
how does the app "know" which file it needs currently?
@Mathematics so what you have a 10k character json column, store it as json in a real database. this isn't 1992. it get stored out of line.
2:14 PM
A clients gets a view of 1000 rows with X,Y,Z columns where as Z column is json with 10,000 characters

Now they do something with 1 row, in backend I need to figure out if some string exists in rest of json values in all rows
@EvanCarroll I would but I only have an hour lol
what happened to tim, is he unbanned yet or is the system still oppressing him.
@Mathematics you're unpacking the json string first, right? no need to store it as text.
@James yes the guy who developed it, made it nvarchar (max)
lol, what an ass hole
@EvanCarroll have you ever thought about joining a cult?
2:20 PM
would creating a md5 be anyone helpful in this situation
He's taking a break
as a temp fix
and day one, "I know everyone here is following David Coresh, but really he's a cuck that molests children and I'm more of a God anyway... Just saying, if it's on merits ya'll would follow me."
It would be a glorious death.
I think you'd have liked Heaven’s Gate
idk what an md5 is. I'd suggest using python's pandas library to read the json and port it into sql server. you can do pd.read_json() and pd.to_sql() and be done
2:25 PM
It's a checksum
@James you should take some time to read about checksums, knowing what they are is a pretty big deal.
a useful tool you'll want to reach for very often.
@Mathematics you know the rule : "repro is best-pro". I know you're crunched for time, but you're not gonna get any exact syntax help unless folks have something to work against dbfiddle.uk
otherwise it's all gonna be "yea you probably can/can't do that" but it won't get you what you need before your meeting (i assume)
type like the wind, comrade!
in this metaphor the wind is a direct relative of Mavis Beacon
lenovo needs to hurry up and release the new x1's
2:44 PM
Hashing can be effective but can only answer are these equal/unequal
@Philᵀᴹ oops!
yesterday, by Peter Vandivier
without stupidity, there would be no StackOverflow :p
3:10 PM
This seems important:
A: What data about meta has eluded Stack Exchange until recently?

Yaakov EllisOriginal Data Analysis In April 2019 there was a investigation performed that looked at the number of users who regularly post and vote on Meta Stack Overflow, and how Stack Overflow answering predicted that participation. The results were that posting and voting on Meta is done by 200-300 use...

@EvanCarroll no one is ever indisputably right. Take this comment, for example.
@PaulWhite9 I'll say that when that was asked internally, there were a lot of people that were surprised by the results. Not necessarily those who work with the community day in and day out.
@Taryn I bet. I see Shog9 wasn't surprised.
@Taryn I would have expected that it was pretty obvious that most of the grunt work is performed by people who spend a lot of time around here, and there is a large overlap between people that spend a lot of time here and people who visit meta.
3:25 PM
Not least because meta holds and maintains most of the rules and guidelines for curation and mod-like activity.
it was to those who interact with the community every day i.e. the CMs
Management is known to miss the obvious from time to time
That's true outside of SE as well
Also important for anyone running SQL Server 2019 CU2 and using function inlining:
@Taryn would you be at all interested in giving the reader's digest version of how you did the drop/create release? unless it was just "i guess some of these queries are gonna explode for a few milliseconds for each database #yolo"
@PeterVandivier literally, drop function, and create function :|
per the suggestion of Joe Sack
3:35 PM
not sure what that data shows.
someone break it down.
well if you've got a problem with a nail, it's probably okay to use a hammer i guess
Tl; Dr: the town council meetings are boring and poorly-attended, but turns out the entire Chamber of Commerce membership reads the minutes. — Shog9 21 hours ago
I remember when that was controversial (dba.stackexchange.com/questions/187090/…) 8 downvotes immediately for pointing out that SQL Server lacked SOMETHING.. 2.5 years later after ignoring everyone it's +17. That's the problem with this network.
What if I wasn't so awesomely persistent and I left when it was -8 because the SQL Server borg rejected it.... We should go back and perma-ban everyone who downvoted it. They're the problem.
@PeterVandivier re-drunk is a thing
3:42 PM
can't be re-drunk if you never sobered up
@Taryn what's that guy know
@PeterVandivier fair point
@Taryn sorry, just so i'm understanding it correctly - based on this tweet ALTER doesn't fix the inlining issue currently where DROP/CREATE does. ALTER fix is coming, but hopefully better post-ALTER fix is coming after that?
@EvanCarroll It's a useful Q & A (especially the answers, as usual). It's a shame you were on such a crusade at the time. If someone else had asked it, it would likely have received no, or very few, downvotes. Something to ponder.
We've accepted him now though
@PeterVandivier you can use ALTER, they added details to the KB - support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/4538581/… - I used drop/create during testing with Joe
3:51 PM
ahhhh, gotcha
someone's gotta be the first one to do it in prod, eh?
@Philᵀᴹ Accepted is such a strong word 😀
There may be better ones.
@PaulWhite9... Do we know that my Padawan is a lost cause? Just think about how we'll think about him 2.5 years...
he's a flowering sith in the making.
@PeterVandivier we're not 2019 in prod...yet, so it was all done in dev
hoping to be in 2019 by end of March
On linux? :D
3:54 PM
@EvanCarroll Each person on their merits. Not going to discuss that further though.
@JL2210 We like to play games on the servers on the weekends and we couldn't get the video or sound drivers to work under Linux. — Nick Craver ♦ Sep 5 '19 at 20:30
Q: Time vindicates those that are right and righteous, like me

Evan CarrollI just wanted to share a store, my narrative on this network. In Sep 27 '17, I asked a question about how SQL Server implemented GREATEST and LEAST. This question was largely rejected by the network. I most likely had to argue to keep it open. The problem, presumably, was because I mentioned how...

anyone able to give me a hand with some query optimisation? if i give them the query and the plan?
@WhatsThePoint best to ask a question on the site
4:09 PM
I have to say, going back and reading my own chat logs. Fucking hell I am awesome.
I'm not sure how anyone here could do anything less than love me.
I can't play that video. YouTube just returned "HTTP 90210: You won't understand this cultural reference, you're not even close to old enough."
When SQL Server recommends a missing index and puts the clustered index key in the INCLUDE isn't that redundant?

CREATE NONCLUSTERED INDEX [<Name of Missing Index, sysname,>]
ON [dbo].[Study] ([StudyDateTime])
INCLUDE ([tag],[FacilityTag])
tag is the clustered index key.
It's harmless if it is there in the INCLUDE and doesn't cause duplication of that data, but is also redundant since it will be included regardless, right?
@CadeRoux [tag] would be included in the index already, so yes, it's redundant. However, having it in the definition won't make any difference to the index, and it somewhat nicely documents the intent.
@Philᵀᴹ ill do that tomorrow if i cant get anywhere then
4:15 PM
@EvanCarroll You can't be far off 40, so that's LIES
@MaxVernon I guess it covers the query and if the clustered index were to change, in some case you'd want it to stay but in this case if the clustered index were to change, the entire query would likely change since tag is this client's surrogate key so it's always a clustered index.
a store or a story?
@MaxVernon @CadeRoux and protects you if the clustering key ever changes.
@CadeRoux exactly.
Oh you said that already lol
Missing index suggestions always need professional review. They're just suggestions or clues.
4:21 PM
I for one welcome our new robot index suggesting overlords.
Then again, most databases need professional review and have precious little hope of ever encountering such a thing.
Surprised myself. Didn't think I was in the mood for Evan but it turns out I sort of am.
That doesn't need pinning though.
@PaulWhite9 Yeah, I am writing a recommendation for the client, it popped up in SSMS trying to improve performance of our product inside their product and it will definitely help to some extent on many of our SSRS reports, but wanted to make sure I gave them the complete scoop. Does SQL Server downgrade a column to INCLUDE if it sees that preceding columns are already highly selective (DateTime before FacilityID because at that point FacilityID is just there to make the index covering)?
In any case, it's not really the bottleneck in this report - it's the giant XMLs that we are trying to peek into... So I'm just putting this in their hopper for their devs to think about.
It's not a very smart process at all. Equality comparisons than can be indexed go in keys, everything else to make it covering for the query goes in the includes.
I should add that it is not meant to be smart, just potentially helpful.
@PaulWhite9 just drop the CI altogether and pray for pushdown, amirite?
So good to have you back @swasheck
4:34 PM
like herpes ... i never go away ... just go dormant for a bit
What a lovely image
Happy to google some up if you need better images
surprised you didnt have them on standby
So what probably downgraded to just INCLUDE it was the usual filter clause in the report?:

(@facility = @facilityAll OR @facility = ues.OEMFacilityID)
Did someone just wind the clock back 3 years?
@CadeRoux The OR would do it yes.
4:36 PM
we were just talking about this a few hours ago, right @PaulWhite9? nice to have community back.
@PaulWhite9 Good, that's what I was thinking.
i took that out because i'm not sure he'd see it as the term of endearment that i intended it to be
I suppose I should downvote Evan's question for comedy value
@PaulWhite9 better the devil you know
4:38 PM
some men just want to watch the world burn
@swasheck I can never remember if he prefers communist or socialist
pretty sure anarchist
social communist? communal socialist?
Nov 12 '19 at 17:20, by Evan Carroll
In the world I will build, we will all live in a post-binary communist utopia. I will establish PostgreSQL as the supreme database of the land, and banish SQL Server to the dustbin of history.
competition is what has made posgres so good in the first place.
4:41 PM
that sounds like capitalist talk over thar
Apr 29 '14 at 13:08, by Kermit
this is a communist chat room
While we're winding back the clock
oh wow. what happened to that one?
"they" were interesting
(am i doing this correctly?)
Passed away from Vertica poisoning I think
HP skidmarks
4:43 PM
He'll always be the Fresh Prince to me
is that their documented pronoun?
Not sure we had those way back when
@swasheck I think it was frog/frog
5:24 PM
@PaulWhite9 We've grown accustomed to his face?
paul needs to use the homophone "excepted" and not "accepted"
@McNets I noticed that one as well. A store full of stories maybe
@AndriyM a wonderstruck store
@ypercubeᵀᴹ Now you're thinking like a VC
NZ protected bike lanes probably have kangaroos tied to poles and they just kick diverging cars out of the way
5:38 PM
@billinkc Why would NZ have kanga?
@jcolebrand National mascot, innit?
I was under the impression that was Australia
Inferior edumacational system there in Texas
It looks like there are some wallaby transplants in NZ but nothing "native"
5:48 PM
Aug 13 '15 at 14:30, by Paul White
Bill will ask where the kangaroo design is, of course.
forgive cole. he's a bit rusty
Trolling never rusts
02:00 - 18:0018:00 - 23:00

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