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7:00 AM
2 messages moved to Trash
 
 
2 hours later…
8:49 AM
morning
 
9:04 AM
why does exist?
 
@JackDouglas Because Erwin.
He curates the tag and put a lot of effort into the wiki. I tolerate it for those reasons.
 
tag wikis are pretty pointless, it's a shame he's wasting his effort
 
Not if people read them. There's good advice there, which would probably be better in a meta FAQ but people read Meta FAQ about as much as tag wikis [citation needed]
There's also the point that Erwin thinks it's worthwhile, and he's a valuable contributor.
 
"Not if people read them" exactly, and they don't.
almost all the text in that tag wiki isn't specific to the tag
and having bad tags to keep a top user happy doesn't seem like a good reason
plus Erwin is very sensible I'm sure he'll be happy to see tagging improved
 
@JackDouglas How do you know? He often comments to ask the question author to read the tag wiki and update the question accordingly.
@JackDouglas Sounds to me like a Meta question about the future of that tag is needed.
 
9:11 AM
OK, I will ask there…
 
9:41 AM
0
Q: Merge tag:postgresql-performance with tag:query-performance?

Jack DouglasThe postgresql-performance is well looked after by an excellent Postgres contributor, but it's just a special case of query-performance applied to a specific RDBMS. I feel that it should be merged, and the information in the Tag Wiki moved to query-performance or other postgres tags as appropria...

 
@PaulWhite so he is using the tag wiki as a meta faq ;)
 
@ypercubeᵀᴹ I guess. The same tag exists on SO by the way. Craig Ringer created it I think.
 
performance, optimization, query-optimization, query-performance. Similar tags, not entirely synonyms, hard to always tag correctly
Having additional for each dbms looks like a waste of effort.
 
As I said above, I've tolerated because it seems to add some value in the practical way it is used. I don't see any actual harm being caused by it.
I'm not particularly opposed to the merge, I'm just waiting to be convinced it's beneficial in some way.
 
10:08 AM
Hi @Erwin, you may like to provide input on this meta question? — Jack Douglas ♦ 49 mins ago
 
 
6 hours later…
4:14 PM
here's the counter-argument, in a nutshell:
0
A: Merge tag:postgresql-performance with tag:query-performance?

Jack DouglasGiven that every single question that is tagged postgres-performance will also be tagged postgres, the only gain in having a separate postgres-performance tag is the ability to have a customized tag wiki. The tag wiki itself is great, and especially in this middle paragraph, there is significan...

 
4:51 PM
In case anyone is interested, and regarding an off-topic question that was posted in DBA.SE, there are companies using database management systems based on the hierarchical or the network "models" nowadays. According to the IBM IMS official site: "IMS is used by many of the top Fortune 1000 companies worldwide".
 
 
1 hour later…
5:54 PM
@MDCCL off topic?
 
6:17 PM
@ypercubeᵀᴹ The question title and the content was something like "Are there companies using hierarchical or network databases currently?", and the answer could have been simply "Yes". Said Q is now deleted.
 
Hi
 
6:37 PM
@McNets Hi
 
6:53 PM
@MDCCL ah, thnx
 
7:26 PM
@ypercubeᵀᴹ this one dba.stackexchange.com/questions/166198/… 10k needed
 
@PaulWhite thnx, I found it
 
2
Q: Updating statistics on 18 TB database

Newbie-DBAI am looking here for experts' advice on how to manage updating stats for very large database approx 18 TB. We have recently started facing performance issues and believe it is due to old stats. Actually we have a job which runs exec sp_update stats and update with default sample rate, in our c...

 
@McNets what about it?
 
Is this a correct/good answer dba.stackexchange.com/a/166210/110455
Without any explanation.
 
@McNets IMO it's not very good
I'm working on what I hope is a better answer but it'll take some time to write up
 
7:33 PM
It's first answer and action of this user on SE: dba.stackexchange.com/users/118994/ykr
 
Part of the code is copy-paste from this page: sql-server-performance.com/2016/…
 
8:15 PM
It is I, Evan the Great
 
8:35 PM
@JackDouglas I'm for your suggestion there.
 
Well that's doomed it then 😂
 
compound tags break the tagging system and provide nothing.
They're an especial impediment here, where you're limited to 5 tags.
 
@EvanCarroll is there anything useful on M.SE on the subject?
 
anyone aware of any bugs with sys.dm_exec_function_stats?
 
the real problem with compound tagging is that they require extra aliases to make them commutative, that they reduce functionality, that they don't scale, and that they increase the barrier of entry to the network (which is a weak argument if they provided anything)
 
8:53 PM
2
A: Updating statistics on 18 TB database

Joe ObbishBased on your question I can think of four possible issues with statistics that could be causing the issues that you're experiencing. 1. Statistics are not automatically updated often enough. In SQL Server 2012, statistics are updated only after 20% or more of the rows in the table have changed...

@JoeObbish Not me.
 
maybe I have one
it disagrees with the query plan
need to dig more
 
@EvanCarroll A tremendous amount of down votes might be interpreted to mean the community disagrees with your point of view.
4
@JoeObbish Cool. It's not a DMV I have ever used, I think.
 
@PaulWhite I was excited to hear about it. Unfortunately, we use a number of scalar UDFs in our code
it is the kind of DMV that you should never have to use if you are doing things correctly :)
 
9:12 PM
I used a scalar T-SQL function in production code once.
Oh, wait, no that was a nightmare I had one time.
😀
Was that the context for your enquiry about CLR functions the other day?
 
IMO scalar functions can be ok to use (and even a good thing) if not included in a query
if you have a stored procedure that uses one to assign a valuable to a variable, great
unfortunately not
developers are considering releasing a CLR function for the first time
I wanted to try to figure out what to watch out for
 
Ah. Scalar or table valued?
 
since we don't have years of negative experiences with CLR functions, as opposed to scalar UDFs
scalar, I think
it's just an implementation of STRING_AGG()
but it's progress
 
A CLR aggregate then?
 
I believe that's the correct term
see how little I know? ;)
 
9:22 PM
The big issue with CLR aggregates is there's no built in way to ensure input order.
So {a,b,c,d} might string agg as 'dbac'
Mobile chat is so awesome lol
We'd love ordered set functions e.g. STRING_AGG WITHIN GROUP. With CLR support as well.
Maybe in v.Next. Or v.Next+
 
ah
I asked the guy why he didn't have an input parameter for ordering
I guess I know now
no bug in sys.dm_exec_function_stats
just read the plan wrong
 
9:39 PM
You can also sort within the CLR aggregate of course but that's not efficient and doesn't scale.
@JoeObbish Amateur! 😉
 
@PaulWhite I will give you the context even if you don't want it!
there's a trick to getting constant scalar value UDFs to only be calculated once
I've used it before, but it didn't seem to be working in my simple proof of concept
hm
nevermind, I can't even explain it
I suppose I'll have to accept the amateur title for now
my "trick" might not actually work
 
Trying to get it cached as a ConstExpr?
 
maybe
what I observed previously was the UDF would be a constant scan
and the outer side of a nested loop join
performance was much better, so I assumed that the UDF was evaluated once in the constant scan
but it looks like it's also evaluated in the loop
I don't exactly know what you mean by "ConstExpr"
 
Deterministic CLR scalar functions can be constant folded and cached from 2012.
 
oh, this is for scalar UDF
 
9:48 PM
@PaulWhite how do you use smileys? 😉
 
I have seen scalar TVFs be constant folded
but never scalar UDFs
 
@JoeObbish Yes I know it was an aside
 
well, I though that we knew all of the bad things about scalar UDFs
but there's always more to learn...
 
@McNets On mobile. Just using the regular phone keyboard.
 
Martin Smith just linked me to an answer by you that might explain this
 
9:51 PM
@JoeObbish Label in plan for a reference that is evaluated and cached just before execution starts. Runtime constant.
 
😆🍺🍺
The Heap™ Messenger!
 
🐰
 
"Compute Scalar operators are different from other operators (SQL Server 2005 onward) in that the expression(s) they define are not necessarily evaluated at the position they appear in the visible execution plan; evaluation can be deferred until the result of the computation is required by a later operator."
hmmm
 
@JoeObbish Don't tell me you work with him as well!
 
9:55 PM
@JoeObbish Yep. Can be a performance problem when the expression is expensive and deferral is to a point where it is executed many times. I have a SQLblog post on that. Compute Scalar in the title.
 
I think I did that wrong, not sure how you guys link to comments
 
Get the link from the timestamp
For questions and answers, use the share link
Can't see exactly what you did on mobile 😢
 
the link was from the timestamp... I guess I did it wrong. oh well
Martin deleted his comment, not sure why
I admit that I'm struggling a bit to figure out how to correct my answer
nevermind, I think I got it
in any case, this scalar UDF issue feels like a problem for Monday
 
You can always delete it and undelete it later when you've figured it out. Votes well be preserved. Happy to assist if I can later when I'm on a real computer.
Oh OK
 
Anyone know how to deal with UEFI? My laptop refuse to start.
SSD
Boot device not found (Error: 3F0)
 
10:09 PM
Checked Super User?
 
@PaulWhite fortunately the examples I have resulted in the computer scalar being adjacent to the SELECT operator
so I think that it can't be deferred
I think I was able to salvage the answer
 
Sweet
 
indeed
 
@PaulWhite by now, youtube only
 
now all I need is a solution for the performance issue that I didn't know our customers had
 
10:24 PM
I think I got it
100X better performance if I select from a 1 row table instead of omitting the FROM clause. that's a new one
 
 
2 hours later…
11:57 PM
> Daily vote limit reached. Vote again in 3 minutes.
Perfect timing.
 
it depends....
00:58 here
 
SE uses UTC for everyone. 1pm Sunday here.
 

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