@JoshDarnell As I understand it, it would be possible to do what you ask without an outrageous amount of effort, much as Erik indicated is already done in other contexts. The tricky thing would be to make it useful. You wouldn't be able to see the context (local alternative plan shape) associated with the costing decision. Most often, the additional detail would just be confusing without that context.

Now, it would be highly useful to be able to see complete plan/group alternatives the optimiser considered with all the usual costing details. That exists, and has always existed, for internal use only. The necessary code simply isn't present in retail builds.

DBCC USEPLAN and whatnot

They even wrote a paper about it.

@PaulWhite I was searching for the paper and this came up. Theft etc.

If there’s anything still at this link, it’s taking forever to load: citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/summary?doi=10.1.1.28.2115

curiously those comments don't seem to be on your actual site

oic it's from sqlblog

nevermind

@ErikDarling Yeah, me too. I'll deal with it when I'm back at a real computer later

@ErikDarling Try sigmodrecord.org/publications/sigmodRecord/0006/pdfs/… or dl.acm.org/doi/pdf/10.1145/342009.335451

The drama generator is still functional

@PaulWhite thank you

Stack Overflow bans users en masse for rebelling against OpenAI partnership

"journalism"

well it's tom's hardware i don't expect journalism per se

Fair enough

that meta post ain't exactly pulitzer material

No

But anyone surprised by it at all hasn't been following SO Inc so far

One never knows quite whether they're being malicious or incompetent

I wonder if they'll act all surprised this turned out to be controversial, again

> bans users en masse

I guess the ragebait title irked me

Functioning as intended, I guess

made u qliq

> In [11], Slutz presents a tool to generate SQL statements probabilistically, to increase the test coverage of the database engine.

> D. Slutz. Massive Stochastic Testing of SQL

this is either the greatest pseudonym of all time or a truly blessed individual

Probably means something terribly mundane in their own language

Could've been D. Snutz

slutz probably means city or something

someone ask @Zikato

Anyway, I had no idea about the current drama until after I'd handled some self-destruction of useful content flags today. I did think it was odd

someone was griping last night about having their account suspended for posting link-only answers back to their blog

On dba.se?

main probably

i've never seen them post on dba

Database Administrators is [main] (try it)

main = main site, meta = well, y'know

okay ahem

I guess from context you mean main to mean Stack Overflow

stretches

SO main

Aha

As I suspected!

hercule paulrot

Spooky aint I

3spooky5me

Paul Wight

Just been asked to prove I am me by the Google DMCA team

do you need a witness

i am credible

and edible

Moderately credible

i think my credit rating is aaa+

Looks like AI

twitter.com/bobwardms/status/1788410186282963002

read'em and WEEP

weep into your spider-filled pillows

twitter closed down, gotcha

x gon' give it to ya

@PaulWhite Is "self-destruction of useful content" so common it deserves its own flag?

@Yano_of_Queenscastle evidently

The useful content is so rare that it deserves its own flag

hnq

@ErikDarling can't even spell 𝕏

I suppose it happens frequently on SO

It's quite rare here, but it does happen

And, to be clear, it is a system flag, not one available to users

more user repression

Is USD 10k for a podcast appearance really reasonable?

if you're a pr firm promising to get me published in forbes, etc. i think so

@ErikDarling It's necessary, else they get all uppity

good thing we have a social credit system

wow reputation really is a messed up concept

@ErikDarling surely no one would lie about such a thing

excuse me sir have you seen all my badges

calling them trusted users works for a while

it's good to be the nomenklatura

only way to be sure of a regular caviar supply

@PaulWhite liked my tw𝕏t on tw𝕏tter, i feel like a special boy

I felt an affinity for it, for some reason

glad you didn't mask your feelings

ho ho

🥁

Who shot the worm in JFK Jr.'s brain

jose cuervo

makes sense

didn't he also write Tequila Mockingbird?

imagine training an AI on this transcript

davemason.me/2024/05/09/suspended-by-stack-overflow

Oh yeah, gr8 movie, loved the deLorean

> and an active user on Mastodon.

tell me your an incel without telling me your an incel

> Private ownership of the means of production and their operation for profit is a ruinous economic system. It's ruined so much of the world around us.

Sounds subversive

moderator courtesy

a true rarity

@ErikDarling 🤬

teehee

I bet your edit window has expired

moderator curtsy is even rarer

never in this dress

→ 1 message moved to Trash

extra courtesy

curtsies

i fly up to boston today to teach a class tomorrow. are there any last minute surprises i should spring on them?

@ErikDarling before or after your plane lands ?

ideally while teaching

Gonna do a DB Cooper and take a parachute as hand luggage ?

i think they check for that now

Does the plane route fly over the classroom ?

that would be a surprise

Good night !

well okay then

hope you handled all the vandalism flags

@PaulWhite except Wellington. It's uphill both directions.

really is

@ErikDarling theguardian.com/world/2024/apr/22/…

leave it to a belgian

i'm surprised the grauniad could spell his name

sometimes, multiple typos cancel out

no one ever complains about a double positive

I'm certain I've seen complaints about C++

Oh did u c them

Someone took their funny pills today

You'll be calling your class members 'victims' next

I've done some penitentiary review work ;-)

According to some recent random browsing, i++ + ++i is valid C. That's a lot of positivity.

@MichaelGreen Is that not just doubling i ?

I wonder which is faster

This person is literally talking exactly like the MindTree people at MS... I'm going to check the GAL now...

You may be right, but I'm not ... positive!

@MikeWalsh explains the company structure 😘

Dad jokes aside, I don't know C. The double plus is an increment, and leading or trailing means it happens before or after something else. So, maybe. Plus or minus an off-by-one error.

I think it increments i twice and returns 2i + 1 as a result, but I'm not at all sure about that last bit

Imagine having years of review queue work to catch up on

Lakhs of years?

Ok, who messed with the time machine

Mike's most recent chat message before today

> In C, the expression i++ + ++i involves both post-increment (i++) and pre-increment (++i) on the same variable without an intervening sequence point. This results in undefined behavior according to the C standard. The value of i is modified more than once between sequence points, which makes the result unpredictable and dependent on the compiler and compiler settings being used.

> Therefore, it is not possible to definitively say what this expression would return; its evaluation can vary and should generally be avoided for reliable and consistent programming practices.

yw

@PaulWhite Turns out, I'm still alive and have a keyboard that works. Got busy there messing with a crazy notion of hiring employees, I guess ;-)

@ErikDarling Something tells me you didn't write that entirely yourself. Perhaps you had a co-pilot

@PaulWhite chatgpt 4

Did you not see the banner about AI answers not being welcome

it's only a comment 😃

Paul's favorite

@MichaelGreen Same

or rather, favourite

@ErikDarling You're saying I should delete it?

well it has served its 🐬

~do what thou wilt~

as is the whole of the law

@MichaelGreen That's a really good post

i'm glad we have a thelemic sect in chat to keep things lively

Have to take anyone seriously who can get away with spelling their first name, Aleister

al𝕏ster

@PaulWhite It did make me wonder how anything ever works anywhere given the number of undefined behaviours. I guess most cases are not corner cases and we all just get on with life.

I didn't know all of them, but I saw enough UB by question 3 that I latched onto the theme

Most applications don't control nuclear power plants, I guess

There was another article about how bad the code for a missile guidance system was. To which the reply was "Of course it has memory leaks, but the system's only ever going to be up for 30 seconds at most." So ....

Embedded programs are only for the most hardcore literal pedants of the world

Glad we don't have any of that sort around here.

In ages past I was offered a job doing real-time trading systems. Sometimes wish I had taken it.

that sounds fun

real-time trading really is the height of unproductive work

4u

4anyone, I'd argue

like most things financial, really

how do i get into that

abandon any principles you might have

^^

i'll try to find some to abandon then

just for 5-10 years or so

The other years just become more automatic after the first 5-10

then you can pretend to make up for it all by becoming a philanthropist

or work the review queues

for all eternity

@PaulWhite tropist not derer - just to help Erik out.

Eri𝕏

i'm gonna ask chatgpt how to get into real time trading

buy some stocks

sell some stocks

sorry, sto𝕏

can i buy stock in new zealand

hostile takover

cattle? yes

default 𝕏eland will be happy to help

anyway, tired, bed

how unproductive

i need to leave for the airport soon. i should probably change out of my fursona

TSA doesn't accommodate?

Erik doesn't enjoy travelling in a crate in the cargo hold, I presume

They don’t serve booze in the cargo hold

@ErikDarling You just don't know where to look. They may not SERVE it there. But they do STORE some there. Somewhere.

I DEMAND FURVICE

Safe Flight @ErikDarling

lol, "may nothing fall off your Boeing"

I wonder if he checks the plane and then reschedules based on the type

but he didn't say if he changed them after

plus, we all know I don't read the transcript

we read the transcript so you don't have to

@SeanGallardy yes, just like I cancel Uber rides when those fuckheads try to stick me with an Infinity QX60 when I order a proper black SUV.

@HannahVernon Woeing

For those who read the transcript (or star board, at least)

@ErikDarling I don't even know what that means

I'm clearly not doing life correctly

Boeing 737 catches fire and skids off the runway at a Senegal airport. Ten people are injured

My plane was okay

Thanks for asking

that makes me want to set up a Google Alert for "boeing+injured" just for giggles

also, why is figuring out what stuff is called in Extended Events so hard. Its like a racoon on crystal meth decided that we'll just put all the things in one table and link 'em together willy nilly. No one will use it anyway.

𝕏E was designed to be unusable by humans

@ErikDarling No disasters like your on-board drinks being served on the wrong kind of coaster?

CREATE ENDPOINT [woeing] FOR SERVICE_BORKER;

does anyone else find it super annoying that Edge is constantly asking me to "Ask Copilot"

@PaulWhite my rococo settee doily can accommodate any drink placement

three words I didn't expect to see

@HannahVernon I asked co-pilot and it just got defensive and told me how to turn it off. I guess we'll never know.

Actually I'm not willing to give up so easily. I doubled down. And it relented. "I apologize for misunderstanding your question earlier. Let me address it directly: the constant prompts from Microsoft Edge asking you to “ask Copilot” can indeed be annoying"

@MikeWalsh it got defensive - perhaps I can identify with this copilot AI thing after all

@MikeWalsh I noticed that it didn't provide any advice on how to disable it though. Kind of like the HAL-9000. I want to know when we can hear Co-pilot singing "daisy, daisy"

@HannahVernon oh it gave the advice - it was just 5 boring steps that I didn't want to share. I've been told I share too much.

@MikeWalsh sharing is caring

ah-hah! There is a way:

> In a malfunction scenario where Co-Pilot's algorithms encounter unforeseen errors or glitches, it might exhibit unpredictable behavior, including generating non-code-related output such as singing a song.

apparently HAL is a washing machine

combined with a speaker

@HannahVernon Yes